Britex
Smash Apprentice
Is it true that only top two makes it out of pools? If so, my chances of making bracket in melee are quite slim. Do you think with the impressive number of people going we'll have top 3 or even top 4 making bracket?
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[May 10-11, 2014] Get On My Level 2014 - MLG Qualifier : Brawl/Melee (Toronto)
- Thread starter Toronto Joe
- Start date
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
personally i feel like it should always be top 2 make it out. More entrants should just mean more pools. not a higher pools cut off.
Hate to be blunt and rude, but if you want a better shot of getting out of pools, your first response should be to try to get better at the game, not to ask the TOs to expand the rules for you so you can feel better about yourself.
If you placed 3rd in pools, it doesnt matter if to 2 get out or if top 4 get out. your placing is still the same and you still tied with everyone else who got 3rd in their pools.
Hate to be blunt and rude, but if you want a better shot of getting out of pools, your first response should be to try to get better at the game, not to ask the TOs to expand the rules for you so you can feel better about yourself.
If you placed 3rd in pools, it doesnt matter if to 2 get out or if top 4 get out. your placing is still the same and you still tied with everyone else who got 3rd in their pools.
jakestan
Smash Cadet
/hype
Dan-Da-Man
Smash Journeyman
I remember last year at impulse my pool was pretty packed with good players. Someone from out of state who I beat but who beat someone else ended up getting last place in pools. Its tough. Though top3 I think would be pretty sweet for those traveling to make it to day 2 and more worthwhile to come out
Britex
Smash Apprentice
Actually, it does matter if it's top 4 or top 2. If it's top 4, I get two more guaranteed tournament matches, which is certainly not the case if it's top 2. I agree that the first thing one should be doing if he wants to get out pools is better himself, which is exactly what I've been doing everyday since my last tournament; your hostility is unwarranted. But if it's only top 2 making it out of pool, it's pretty much impossible for anyone's who not a top player to make bracket. Every pool will consist of pretty much two top players and a bunch of other players of varying level of skills. This mean only the two really good players get out and the rest drops out of the tournament. Between all these players that drops out of the tournament because of this tournament structure, one could be an extremely new player that doesn't know basic tech and only spam smashes, and another could be much closer to the level of skill of know player, but this significant variance in skill level is not recognized at all because of a decision like this, which could possibly demoralize newer players and may even have them lose interest in competitive Melee. With a game as old as this with no online, new players are the lifeblood of the community. Its thanks to them that good players can enjoy grand tournaments with lots of entrants, wins decent amount of money and have people cheer them on as they battle through bracket.
Having only top two making it out of pools is somewhat disrespectful for newer players, because it does not give them a chance at all. Considering that for some going to these tournaments can be very costly and troublesome due to various reasons, if the tournament gives them no chances at all to make bracket it might as well be better for them to sit in their home and watch the stream.
Not to mention, a round-robin pool to bracket is not even an objective measurement of a player's skill, because it requires seeding before the tournament actually happen and can result in unfortunate pools for unseeded players. If we wanted to make absolutely fair tournaments, we'd have to seed players before the tournament just like we do now, have them play in round-robin fashion just like it is always done, but instead of going straight into bracket with limited amount of players per pool, we'd have to make a secondary seeding based on the pool results, and place every player in the tournament in an open bracket based on their pool seedings. But of course, this would take too long for tournament to run, so we go straight into bracket instead. New players have to deal with this tournament structure that is not in their favor, so the least thing tournaments organizers can do is make it top 3 or even 4 makes it out pools so atleast newer players have a genuine chance at making bracket.
smashmachine
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 25, 2009
- Messages
- 1,285
hold on, is it bracket pools or round robin pools?
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I'm a new player, and have to agree with a lot of what Britex is saying. Though people could easily say I'm biased because I am a new player. For example I'm bringing three friends along with me (first timers as well) to participate. It's going to cost us around $240 to show and that's excluding gas money. I know I wouldn't be too happy being out of the tournament quickly. I know I'm not coming to win, but I am coming to play and to learn. So I would like the ability to experience more to allow me to really want to stay in competitive Smash. However, I honestly doubt I would quit for a while, as long as money permits. Or at least I hope the seeding is done well (if possible).
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Inle~Orichas
Smash Journeyman
Ya K.I.D. we still teaming!
Also in response to the current discussion, if we had excess time, we would be able to maximize everyone's time to play, but we don't.
We need to get the event rolling along as fast as we can while still giving everyone a chance to play.
The way pools is intended to work is to allow people to play more matches overall, rather than just the 2 minimum in a double elimination bracket.
Running pools takes more time than going straight to double elimination, so in order to run it without running way way overtime, the threshold for making it to bracket must be strict.
Ultimately the choice to enter the tournament is yours, but speaking from experience; coming out to tourneys is the best way to improve.
You get the chance to play many of the top players, many of them more than willing to play matches against you and even give advice on how to improve.
Fighting opponents in the tourney setting forces everyone to play at their best, so its really the only true measurement of skill since the incentive to win is the absence of elimination. You never know how you will handle stress until your back is against the wall. Don't consider elimination from pools to be drowning, think of it as learning how to swim.
~Inle
Also in response to the current discussion, if we had excess time, we would be able to maximize everyone's time to play, but we don't.
We need to get the event rolling along as fast as we can while still giving everyone a chance to play.
The way pools is intended to work is to allow people to play more matches overall, rather than just the 2 minimum in a double elimination bracket.
Running pools takes more time than going straight to double elimination, so in order to run it without running way way overtime, the threshold for making it to bracket must be strict.
Ultimately the choice to enter the tournament is yours, but speaking from experience; coming out to tourneys is the best way to improve.
You get the chance to play many of the top players, many of them more than willing to play matches against you and even give advice on how to improve.
Fighting opponents in the tourney setting forces everyone to play at their best, so its really the only true measurement of skill since the incentive to win is the absence of elimination. You never know how you will handle stress until your back is against the wall. Don't consider elimination from pools to be drowning, think of it as learning how to swim.
~Inle
Inle~Orichas
Smash Journeyman
Pools are constructed usually by past tournament experience, so for example M2K and Ally wouldn't be in the same pool.
Inle~Orichas
Smash Journeyman
No, because if the entire tournament was structured in that fashion, all the top players would be seeded together as well. There is likely to be players at or around your skill level in the pool though.
Britex
Smash Apprentice
I understand your point, but I think top 2 making it out of pool is just way too hard. Last (and first) tournament I went to was Polybash and there it was top 4 making bracket, and the tournament was still run very smoothly. I talked a bit with A rookie about this and he told me that top 4 was standard.
Also, OllyD, Pool are set up so that really good/know players are not in the same pool. Your pool will most likely be something like Idea (Good, Know player) Saus (Also Known player, but not quite as good, not a top pro) + you and 4-5 other people of varying skill level but all of which will be below the first two. This is to ensure good players do not knock eachother out of the tournament early, because you could end up with a really weak player placing high because the good players knocked each others off the tournament early.
However, with only top two making it out of pools this mean you have pretty much no chance of making bracket, along with the 5 other player in your pool.
Also, OllyD, Pool are set up so that really good/know players are not in the same pool. Your pool will most likely be something like Idea (Good, Know player) Saus (Also Known player, but not quite as good, not a top pro) + you and 4-5 other people of varying skill level but all of which will be below the first two. This is to ensure good players do not knock eachother out of the tournament early, because you could end up with a really weak player placing high because the good players knocked each others off the tournament early.
However, with only top two making it out of pools this mean you have pretty much no chance of making bracket, along with the 5 other player in your pool.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
if this is apex rules, im going to assume that means bracket pools.
bracket pools means there are no pools and its just one giant bracket set up into different parts.
and if thats the case then it EXTRA doesnt matter where the pools cut off is because no matter what its still 2 losses and youre out of the tournament. and getting out of pools does not reset your losses so the point about getting more tournament matches in is a non factor.
bracket pools means there are no pools and its just one giant bracket set up into different parts.
and if thats the case then it EXTRA doesnt matter where the pools cut off is because no matter what its still 2 losses and youre out of the tournament. and getting out of pools does not reset your losses so the point about getting more tournament matches in is a non factor.
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Britex
Smash Apprentice
I'd actually be quite satisfied with bracket pools. Victory in round-robin don't feel really satisfying, but in bracket, you know that every time you beat someone you send them into losers ( or out of the tournament) and every victory gets you a little closer to grand final.
I really hope I'll be able to go, because I'm super hype for this. Hoping I'll get far in the tournament :3
I really hope I'll be able to go, because I'm super hype for this. Hoping I'll get far in the tournament :3
Britex
Smash Apprentice
I'm not sure, but I think you're knocked out of the tournament for good.
Wow. That seems really steep... Especially if the tournament is set up that way. What if I brand new player is set up against two pros right off the bat?... They're just out in less than an hour after making that long trip. I've heard people really want to "grow" the smash community so that seems odd. Id imagine that more than one person gets knocked out that quickly, so would they not then fight to see who comes in last/2nd last for example?
I guess at least you can still play friendlies, but it's not quite the same.
I guess at least you can still play friendlies, but it's not quite the same.
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
I don't think RR pools or bracket pools has been decided yet and it's up to the amount of confirmed set ups going into the tournament. Bring a tv or cube or disc. The tournament needs to finish in a timely manner with possibly 200 entrants stretched across 4 separate tournaments, I never understood why you would make your first two tournaments bigger ones meant for cutting down entrants into a bracket of top players instead of going to a local where play time and chances for newer players to do better are more of a goal.
SevenYearItch
Smash Journeyman
As much as I see it your way as a newbie to the comp scene, I think its the perfect way to grow the competitive scene. You can't breed competitive spirit with the mindset that everyone should make it all the time and have ample chance to try again. Its always nice to find a balance where newbies have more chances, but I feel like its more rewarding the the 2 loss you're out rule because it really rewards good play and allows for some huge upsets if someone sinks a pro and then they end up facing someone equally good in losers. I think every tourny should be set up as a double elim style rr bracket. Would keep everything fresh. If it deters people from coming, then it shows who cared about winning and who cared about being a part of the scene imo
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
yea different tournaments have different goals. the 20 man local monthlies in your town are meant to foster community and practice and train and build up the skill/camaraderie of the scene. the big 200+ tournaments are meant explicitly to see who the best player is.
Yeah that does make sense. Of course I do understand that whole outlook. I agree that there should be a rule where they are knocked out, I just personally found 2 losses to be a bit... Steep? Just because two isn't that much compared to something like 3 or 4.
Also, the reason this is the first tournament for me, is because there are never any local tournaments here. I've played in two local tournaments, and this one fits into my schedule perfectly and is close to my area.
Also, the reason this is the first tournament for me, is because there are never any local tournaments here. I've played in two local tournaments, and this one fits into my schedule perfectly and is close to my area.
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Britex
Smash Apprentice
Same thing for me. The closest local to my area is 200 km away and I have no money and no car. The only reason I can go to a tournament like this is because I'm going with a bunch of a friends and that I've been saving up for 2 months. But I guess a harsh rule like this only mean that I'll have to train harder if I want to make bracket.
The Underground King
Smash Rookie
I don’t hate you, Joe. I don’t even dislike you. I do like you. In fact, I like you a lot more than I like most people in this “community”. I hate this idea that you’re one of Ontario’s best because you’re not. I’m the best. I’m the best in this region. There is one thing you’re better than me at and that’s pandering to the masses, both in and out of region, and sucking up to top players. You’re as good as sucking up as Vishal. I don’t know if you’re as good as Tinaye though; he’s pretty good at sucking up. Always was and still is.
I am the best in Ontario and I’ve been the best since day one when I walked into my first tournament. The thing is, I’ve been vilified and hated since that day because I am an anomaly. I was a kid beating old men with small dreams. Seeded poorly and still defeating good players. I have grabbed so many of Ontario’s brass rings that it has finally dawned upon me that they are just that-completely imaginary. The only thing that is real is me and the fact that day in and day out, for almost 7 years, I have proved to everybody in this region I am the best on this keyboard, in that squared screen, even on commentary. Nobody can touch me.
Yet, no matter how many times I prove it, I’m not on your lovely PR. I’m not on the featured list on stream titles. I’m barely hyped up. I don’t get interviews. I’m certainly not showcased on any bad channel. I’m not even featured for Get On My Level. I’m not on CanadaBrawl, or any other channel but the fact of the matter is, I should be. This isn’t sour grapes but the fact that Tinaye gets his own tier on the PR while I’m not even on it makes me sick.
The reason I’m doing all of this is for every person who ever wanted to be a top player and is still has that goal to be a top player. After I’m done, you’re still going to pour money and get kicked to the curb by people who think they run this scene. I’m just a spoke on the wheel and I understand that. The scene is going to get praise despite itself and not for the right reasons because glad-handed, nonsensical, yes men, like Browntown, surround it, who is going to tell the top players everything they want to hear, and I’d like to think this region will be better off after the top players leave but the fact is, it’s going to be taken over by bird brained, simpleminded Browntown and the rest of their “honorary” members.
Let me tell you all a personal story about To Joe. He does this whole free SSBB movement….
I’m the change Ontario needs. The hero they need and the hero they deserve. I am going to clean the scene for I am the vaccine. Abie will be asking me to be his hubby. Mark is going to want to be my matriarch. Aaron will be saying this is heaven. Max, my attacks will be reminiscent of parahax. Nassim will feel like he is in a dream. You can’t touch this, I was trained by Iliadis. Bram: “He’s going ham”. This is the Chris Fisch wish. Jen knows I’m a 10. Anojan will be making a commotion (make sure to bring some lotion). Kischak better bring that Kodak. I will not dishonor Mr. O’Connor. Trilo: “This guy is parched, bro and you’re looking like Sub-Zero”. When I spin, I’ll see Armen with a grin. Vishal will be asking if this is Brawl. Robert, we both know who will be inert. Ares, bring some rupees and fairies, it is time to clean this disease. Yahshua: “Is that Inuyasha”? Adam “Put him in a box” Brooks is going to have to be renamed Adam “Put it in your socks” Brooks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDz5SzpA3Xw
This king is known for his disregard. He is letting down his guard. After being scarred, I have taken a walk on The Boulevard. Now, I prove this is my yard.
-The Wildcard.
I am the best in Ontario and I’ve been the best since day one when I walked into my first tournament. The thing is, I’ve been vilified and hated since that day because I am an anomaly. I was a kid beating old men with small dreams. Seeded poorly and still defeating good players. I have grabbed so many of Ontario’s brass rings that it has finally dawned upon me that they are just that-completely imaginary. The only thing that is real is me and the fact that day in and day out, for almost 7 years, I have proved to everybody in this region I am the best on this keyboard, in that squared screen, even on commentary. Nobody can touch me.
Yet, no matter how many times I prove it, I’m not on your lovely PR. I’m not on the featured list on stream titles. I’m barely hyped up. I don’t get interviews. I’m certainly not showcased on any bad channel. I’m not even featured for Get On My Level. I’m not on CanadaBrawl, or any other channel but the fact of the matter is, I should be. This isn’t sour grapes but the fact that Tinaye gets his own tier on the PR while I’m not even on it makes me sick.
The reason I’m doing all of this is for every person who ever wanted to be a top player and is still has that goal to be a top player. After I’m done, you’re still going to pour money and get kicked to the curb by people who think they run this scene. I’m just a spoke on the wheel and I understand that. The scene is going to get praise despite itself and not for the right reasons because glad-handed, nonsensical, yes men, like Browntown, surround it, who is going to tell the top players everything they want to hear, and I’d like to think this region will be better off after the top players leave but the fact is, it’s going to be taken over by bird brained, simpleminded Browntown and the rest of their “honorary” members.
Let me tell you all a personal story about To Joe. He does this whole free SSBB movement….
I’m the change Ontario needs. The hero they need and the hero they deserve. I am going to clean the scene for I am the vaccine. Abie will be asking me to be his hubby. Mark is going to want to be my matriarch. Aaron will be saying this is heaven. Max, my attacks will be reminiscent of parahax. Nassim will feel like he is in a dream. You can’t touch this, I was trained by Iliadis. Bram: “He’s going ham”. This is the Chris Fisch wish. Jen knows I’m a 10. Anojan will be making a commotion (make sure to bring some lotion). Kischak better bring that Kodak. I will not dishonor Mr. O’Connor. Trilo: “This guy is parched, bro and you’re looking like Sub-Zero”. When I spin, I’ll see Armen with a grin. Vishal will be asking if this is Brawl. Robert, we both know who will be inert. Ares, bring some rupees and fairies, it is time to clean this disease. Yahshua: “Is that Inuyasha”? Adam “Put him in a box” Brooks is going to have to be renamed Adam “Put it in your socks” Brooks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDz5SzpA3Xw
This king is known for his disregard. He is letting down his guard. After being scarred, I have taken a walk on The Boulevard. Now, I prove this is my yard.
-The Wildcard.
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jakestan
Smash Cadet
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SevenYearItch
Smash Journeyman
Best thing to happen here. Give this man a Slammy (Smashy?)
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
Well if this tournament is in your area then joe is trying to hold a smaller tournament the week before at te same place though it isn't confirmed yet. Also if you can make it to York then you can take the go train or any bus from there to a subway station and make it to our monthly tournaments outside spadina station, including our melee Arcadian the week after GOML that is for unranked players only and has RR pools and top players there to offer assistance. No johns, I'm excited for GOML because of the high caliber players attending so I can watch them, play with them and try to make it as far as possible but if you want to come play with your friends more than spectate high level play then the Arcadian is probably something you should be looking into.
Cool those do sound pretty cool actually. Is there anywhere I can get more info on them, such as a site or something?
JERK.ownz.you
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Messages
- 78
Brilliant. Simply Brilliant. Trolling level 10,000.
On an unrelated note, how often do guys meet up at York to smash? I need people to face to get better
Me too xD but I don't live in Toronto...
SevenYearItch
Smash Journeyman
Which part of our grand country are you in?
I'm in east Canada
SevenYearItch
Smash Journeyman
Ahh sorry to hear that <3 lmao Just kidding
Haha. Not far from Toronto though! Only about an hour and half away.
iMeeHow
Smash Journeyman
Random question, Is this tournament based off of 'Bugs' GOML back in like 2008?
Edit: This one - http://smashboards.com/threads/goml-2-tournament-tba-goml-1-vids-are-up-check-first-page.174943/
Edit: This one - http://smashboards.com/threads/goml-2-tournament-tba-goml-1-vids-are-up-check-first-page.174943/
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JERK.ownz.you
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Messages
- 78
So how often do people get together at York to play?
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
Well I'm assuming melee, if so then join the Ontario melee Facebook group where we have a list of tournaments and event pages for each of them. If brawl then there's a brawl group but no Arcadian scheduled ATM (though they should get on it)Cool those do sound pretty cool actually. Is there anywhere I can get more info on them, such as a site or something?
There's a York smash group headed by TO Joe, I think events are planned in an advance so there isn't a weekly date to go play but there are enough smashers at York to plan a get together any time. ATM he has a mini tournament planned for Wednesday April 30 and Sunday may 4. There are event pages for them if you join our face book groups, maybe a thread here as well but I'm not sure
This is the type of post that should link to the groups
https://www.facebook.com/groups/SmashMeleeOntario/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/gtabrawlscene/