Mature Religious Discussion

[SaynE]

Fact: Carbon dating dates beyond the time of the "Biblical universe"

Fact: Mutations and evolution has been observed on a smaller scale on fruit flies

Explain.

 

[anannomous]

First off I would like to say that a lot happens in one hour, i think i was gone that long...Second the dinos did live though, but not in big numbers (in big sizes).
Third I'll stop counting in numbers. The Bible does have everything in it that God wants, but I'm just too lazy to read it (my parents think of me as a "backslider" because i sin too much).
Also may someone please tell me how to post quotes?....

 

[Mario27]

i think i posted this in another topic i think these words are close to what i said

"with all these gods which is the true one. i'm not at all saying that i don't believe in my god."

 

[BenFoldsFive]

Alright Crono, I'm here...but this time lets not get mad about anything. I apologize about my immatureness in the last one and I hope you accept it. I'll try to debate the best I can, and I hope we can go on being cool with eachother.
So how do you want to start this debate?

 

[anannomous]

The "true one" is spelled with a capital G in their holy books. Allah is with A not with G.... yeah this is a really crappy reason... I'll shut up now.

 

[INFESTD]

Religion? IS that still around?

 

[INFESTD]

anyone?

 

[BenFoldsFive]

Ok some people say...
Q. Religion and church is really boring, why do you do it?
My answer (A). Well, I agree there are thousands of churches that I find very boring, but you should try to find something for you. I like my church a lot. Some churches play organ, some play hymns, others play Rock. Choose one you like best.
Q. Doesnt the Bible just sound like a big fairy tale?
A. TRUST ME, NOOOOO. Sure, you made read something and say "Ya right, like that could happen". Trust me, please, If you really, with all your heart try to understand the Bible, and seek help from very Godly, knowledgeable people, you will find it is the most logical thing there is. There are no mistakes, and no one in thousands of years has truly proven one. And please be honest with yourself, cause you know you cant really PROVE it. You just hear things.
Q. So is being a christian make life easy?
A. NOOOOO. Life is hard. It always will be. But you dont have to go through it alone. You have Jesus. "What?" you may ask. TRUST me, God works in my life all time. And I am so blessed and I thank God for it.
I hope you think about this.

 

[Mario27]

Originally posted by BenFoldsFive:
<strong>Ok some people say...
Q. Religion and church is really boring, why do you do it?
My answer (A). Well, I agree there are thousands of churches that I find very boring, but you should try to find something for you. I like my church a lot. Some churches play organ, some play hymns, others play Rock. Choose one you like best.
Q. Doesnt the Bible just sound like a big fairy tale?
A. TRUST ME, NOOOOO. Sure, you made read something and say "Ya right, like that could happen". Trust me, please, If you really, with all your heart try to understand the Bible, and seek help from very Godly, knowledgeable people, you will find it is the most logical thing there is. There are no mistakes, and no one in thousands of years has truly proven one. And please be honest with yourself, cause you know you cant really PROVE it. You just hear things.
Q. So is being a christian make life easy?
A. NOOOOO. Life is hard. It always will be. But you dont have to go through it alone. You have Jesus. "What?" you may ask. TRUST me, God works in my life all time. And I am so blessed and I thank God for it.
I hope you think about this.</strong><hr></blockquote>

that is true

 

[Gamer4Fire]

If you can, Ben, answer any or all of the questions already asked instead of asking people to repeat them for you.

 

[BenFoldsFive]

Alright, I'll try my best. I will post more tomorrow because I must go right now. Later.

 

[INFESTD]

sorry about the stupid question i just wanted to see if anyone was there.

P.S. i beleive the bible

 

[Mad Mario]

Fact: Mutations and evolution has been observed on a smaller scale on fruit flies <hr></blockquote>

Well, my dad read this one book where this one scientist was doing research and all that scientist stuff and he came up with the conclusion that Evolution is not one of the ways man came to be. He said the world was about something-something billion years old. He said that for a tiny little bacterial cell-like thingamabober to turn into a complex, emotional, intelligent being by mutation would take 100's of times longer than the world existed.

To do quotes you it the "Quote" button.

 

[MasterOfTheSwords]

See, so many people here are saying "the Bible isnt' true" and "God is dead". You aren't going to be considered some debating hero without presenting any support. Originally posted by Gamer4Fire:

If you can, Ben, answer any or all of the questions already asked instead of asking people to repeat them for you <hr></blockquote> Gamer, why don't you quit hunting for faults in the Bible that don't exist and start putting up an argument for your opinions, ie:
Originally posted by Gamer4Fire:

A small question. Your Jesus comes again, and I decide to grab my 50. and blow his head off his shoulders. Will it kill him? Will he dodge the bullet or will some miracle save him? He new that Judas was going to betray him and yet he did nothing. He new the Romans were coming and yet he stayed. Will he stay for the bullet that he knows will end his life? How will he be resurrected? The first time he kept the wounds of the crucifixion, will he lose his head? And importantly, how can he be the second coming if he is dead? <hr></blockquote> Here's the explanation. Satan has immersed the earth and those who are not saved in the idea that a spiritual world cannot exist. It's true. God cannot be scientifically proven to exist, he exists in our present lives by faith and intervention by the Holy Spirit. Anyways, here's a general analysis.

Your Jesus comes again, and I decide to grab my 50. and blow his head off his shoulders. Will it kill him? <hr></blockquote> No. Jesus came to earth in human form, so that he COULD die on this earth to forgive us of our sins. He resides on his throne where He prepares for His Second Coming, when the Great Tribulation and the Antichrist will corrupt and destroy the world. All believers will be taken up by God before this, and event commonly known as the Rapture. Not even Satan himself could prevent His perfect plan, let alone a mere mortal like yourself.

He new that Judas was going to betray him and yet he did nothing. He new the Romans were coming and yet he stayed. <hr></blockquote> Jesus came to the earth so he could die for our sins. That simple.

Will he stay for the bullet that he knows will end his life? <hr></blockquote> I'll say this for you again, you cannot kill Jesus. Actually, I don't understand how that works, I mean, you getting out your "50" and "blasting God's head off". You wanna explain that? Many people who opposed Jesus tried to do the same general idea that your suggestion of "blowing His head off" implies. In one example, and entire mob had gathered to kill Him. Jesus just looked at them, and not one person moved or spoke. Nobody. He will not die until He knows it's time. You're a laugh. Kill Yahweh? In ONE second, the entire earth could buckle under the glance of the Lord. But he doesn't. That's called grace.

How will he be resurrected? <hr></blockquote> Boy, you don't know when to stop repeating yourself Gamer4Fire, do you? AGAIN, and just for you, I'm gonna say this: YOU CAN'T KILL GOD. You can't! What, you think you're gonna just zap yourself into Heaven and open fire? As a little appetizer, I'm going to let anybody who doesn't already know this in on a little secret: Satan exists only because the Lord allows it. Again, the word is "grace". But when the seven year Tribulation ends, he will be cast into the Abyss for a thousand years, a place of pain and torment. But after that time, he must be released for a little while. But for those who have not been saved by our God, you won't have to worry about being around after the Tribulation...I'm not one to judge you, so I won't say it. But I think you can figure out where non-believers go. The truth hurts. A lot.

The first time he kept the wounds of the crucifixion, will he lose his head? <hr></blockquote> ...what?

And importantly, how can he be the second coming if he is dead? <hr></blockquote> Two words: He's not. But you're going to want more detail, so I'll appease your little request. Jesus never died! He can't die. Jesus never had no Beginning, and will have no end. It may be difficult for you to understand, but in simpler terms, he never STARTED anywhere. He's always been here, there...everywhere. Infinite. He came to earth in a human form so he could shed his blood upon the earth, and forgive us of our sins. Mkay? Anything else to say? Sure...the drug debate is gone, but Gamer, you're playing in my strong suit. :D

Cheery little ray of sunshine, aren't you Gamer4Fire? This is fun...here we go.

So you're saying I can't kill Jesus Christ. Okay, when he comes back, I'll blow his head off to make sure you don't have the wrong one, since if it's the wrong one, He'll be dead. <hr></blockquote> *Shakes head*...Gamer, Jesus is returning to earth AFTER the seven year Tribulation occurs. AFTER. A-F-T-E-R. OK? Satan can't kill Him. A mob of mortal men couldn't kill Him. What the heck is some punk teenager gonna do? You live ONLY because God allows it. Just needs to point his finger at ya and *poof*. Little white bunny rabbit disappears back into his hat. You're dead.

I'm kind of annoyed about this Judas had to turn him in stuff and the perfect plan stuff.<hr></blockquote> Is that so?

If God know what we all will do before we do it, and it is already planned out, even and done then where does free will come into the picture? <hr></blockquote> Good question. God knows what choice we will make. But we do have free will. Right and wrong. Yes and no. We choose, God already knows.

If it is already written then what I do is irrelevant since it was already known and I could have done nothing but that. <hr></blockquote> This is another matter too complex for one to comprehend without intensive study. We do have the choice. But God still knows. It's similar to how He has always existed, with no beginning or end. Only God knows.

If you look at it that way, there is no free will and there is no reason to be alive since everyone who were destined to be saved are already saved and those aren't are screwed. <hr></blockquote> Again, we have a choice, but God already knows the answer. He knows what's in our hearts, knows our entire lives.

That means that you don't have to type anymore about your sweet Jesus since those who are to be saved will find the right path on there own without your help. And that us heathen dogs cannot be saved so there is no point in you trying. <hr></blockquote> Gamer4Fire, let me tell you right now, ANYBODY can be saved. Ask Jesus into your heart, ask for forgiveness. Be sincere. Need spiritual support? Go to church. Join a youth group. Get Christian councilling. Trust me, it's a life worth living! :D ...Haven't you considered ANY of this? And by the way...

And importantly, how can he be the second coming if he is dead? <hr></blockquote> That is SO from the Matrix. You know, the scene where Cypher's talking to Trinity about Neo being the One and stuff. Quote from the Matrix: "I mean, how can he be the One...if he's DEAD?"

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: AculemNaeomeus ]</p>

 

[Akira]

Have any of you ever considered the possibility that the Bible was nothing more than a new-age novel of sorts?
It makes alot of sense, why are there so of your cult native to the area around which the majority of jesus's life was said to take place, while far more popped up far away countries(i.e.where the novel was exported to)?
Why not? What if the author was just a hella-charasmatic person who got some people with low self esteem in other countries to believe all this crap happened, and thus put the movement into motion.
It seems unlikely, but after enough time
chances are something this huge would happen.
The low people edit the novel as they saw fit to have it make sense and continue to convert impressionable young people to their cult. This isn't too diffrent than how modern cults devolp.
If you don't have the bible, what is left for you to believe in? It all came from that d@mn cultish book.
If the Bible was just some psycho's life work to keep himself imortalized in his work what are you left to argue with?

As always though, this is just a lie Satan is telling me to type to throw off all the good Cultish people. Really

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: Nosirrah ]</p>

 

[androza]

This entire argument is so flawed its amazing. God cannot know what you will do before you do it if you have free will. If you believe that God has a perfect plan, you also must believe that you dont have free will. Which is one of the larger points ive seen in why man can sin. But if we dont have free will, then all our sinning must be in gods plans. Which means that sinning is actually helping God. Which leads to the conjecture that it isnt possible to sin, since you cant do anyhting that God doesnt want you to do. Which means that we can do whatever we think we want to do (but really god wants us to do) and be able to do it without fear of god.

Next, God is immortal and all powerful. However, without his millions of worshippers praying to him daily, he will die out. Notice no one prays to the Roman Gods anymore, and they dont appear to affect our lives. So technically, if we dont believe in god, we can dethrone him. Make him disappear. If no one believes in him, he has no base of power, no way to give us earthly messages. Which means he would have to use heavenly messengers. Which would break what he said in the first testament. Which would basically destroy God, because he would have to revoke his word, and therefore be imperfect.

Another thing I think is funny is how christians are so certain that their God is the only god that exists. How to we know that there arent hundreds of gods, or no gods at all, or maybe everyones just praying to a god that really likes sodomy, homosexuality, and abortions. You have no way of proving it either way, except wave that piece of propaganda you called the bible in peoples faces.

The only thing that ever came from christianity is it gave a reason to build many gorgeous cathedrals in the world. But the same could be said for many religions. The Incas, Mayans, and Aztecs built their beautiful yet gruesome temples for the glory of their own god.

 

[O'dul]

even know no one will even read this still i will post... ok god maybe but maybe not... there is no porf of him being up there and if you have some i would like to see it... BUT there is no porf that he is not up there so hey belive what you want... for now... some day win i rule this world and others like it i will berid of this religious thing and then after some gens there will be no one to fight me and my peps will grow faster then we ever thot we could... but for now ill the post her... sorry about that rule the world thing but hey i can dream cant i...

 

[SnorSnor]

Let's see what "cult" means here before we start.

A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

No, I, and I'm sure we (As in Christians here), are not under guidance of a charismatic leader. Ibelieve I am under the guidance of God, not a pastor or anything like that. Although we go to church to learn more about God, we can still look up the information ourselves and see if it's right or wrong. And if it's wrong, then it's probably a good idea to tell the pastor that.

It makes alot of sense, why are there so of your cult native to the area around which the majority of jesus's life was said to take place, while far more popped up far away countries<hr></blockquote>

I'm sorry, but... could you rephrase that, please?

What if the author was just a hella-charasmatic person who got some people with low self esteem in other countries to believe all this crap happened, and thus put the movement into motion.<hr></blockquote>

It could be, then again it could not. The books of the Bible were written over the span of thousands of years, with over 40 different authors. All of them are Jews, save the writer of Luke and Acts, who was Greek. But I don't believe a human could live for thousands of years.
By faith, I believe that the Bible is God's Word. If it's not, I'll find this out when I die, but until then, I'll continue to believe the truths within the Bible are real.

Also, the Bible wasn't canonized until around 300+ AD. Copies of books were found, and they decided that they could put them all together to create what we call now, the Bible. So it couldn't have been one guy who wrote the Bible, because it wasn't even put together as a whole book till a long time later.

The low people edit the novel as they saw fit to have it make sense and continue to convert impressionable young people to their cult.<hr></blockquote>

Can you prove that people edited the Bible so they saw what they had was fit?

If the Bible was just some psycho's life work to keep himself imortalized in his work what are you left to argue with?<hr></blockquote>

You could believe it was written by a 3000+ year old psycho, but to me, that sounds more unlikely than it being all truth.

As always though, this is just a lie Satan is telling me to type to throw off all the good Cultish people. Really<hr></blockquote>

Not to be mean to you, but this a mature debate.

Have a nice night :D

 

[Gamer4Fire]

Aculem- You seem to have this problem of repeating yourself multiple times. First in your posts, now in the topics. People can go back and read what you have already written. You don't need to repost everything you've said up to this point.

Please explain to me how Human Evolution and Carbon Dating is wrong. Anyone.

 

[SnorSnor]

This entire argument is so flawed its amazing. God cannot know what you will do before you do it if you have free will. If you believe that God has a perfect plan, you also must believe that you dont have free will. Which is one of the larger points ive seen in why man can sin. But if we dont have free will, then all our sinning must be in gods plans. Which means that sinning is actually helping God. Which leads to the conjecture that it isnt possible to sin, since you cant do anyhting that God doesnt want you to do. Which means that we can do whatever we think we want to do (but really god wants us to do) and be able to do it without fear of god.<hr></blockquote>

This is actually a heated debated thing.

Yes, I do believe we have free will. How can God not know what we're doing when He's omniscient? It does sound like an oxymoron. If someone knows the future, they know what you're going to do. This does not make you do what they want.

But, who gets you up in the morning? You or someone else? Do you have the will to eat your own breakfast? Yes, you do. No one but you is making you doing those things because you have your own choice to do it.

Sorry if I didn't answer that good enough though. Another subject that's pretty complicated for me.

Next, God is immortal and all powerful. However, without his millions of worshippers praying to him daily, he will die out. Notice no one prays to the Roman Gods anymore, and they dont appear to affect our lives. So technically, if we dont believe in god, we can dethrone him. Make him disappear. If no one believes in him, he has no base of power, no way to give us earthly messages. Which means he would have to use heavenly messengers. Which would break what he said in the first testament. Which would basically destroy God, because he would have to revoke his word, and therefore be imperfect.<hr></blockquote>

God is also eternal. He doesn't need anyone to have Him stay alive. He created what He has created because He wanted to. He doesn't need worship, help, or anything like that. If God was always there, that means He was around when nothing else was. No angels, people, time, space, anything. Only God.

You have no way of proving it either way, except wave that piece of propaganda you called the bible in peoples faces.<hr></blockquote>

But isn't what you're saying athiest propaganda? We, nor do you, have any way of proving God exists to others or does not exist. God, if He chooses to, reveals Himself personally to people so that they may believe in Him. Now, this doesn't mean everyone He reveals Himself to will become Christians. When Jesus came, the Pharisees KNEW He was the Son of God, yet they didn't believe. They wanted the kingdom of God all for themselves. By their own selfishness they condemned themselves.
But if anyone allows or asks God to reveal Himself to you in any way or shape or form to know that He exists, and they truly, truly meant it, then they'll get an answer, and the answer is "yes." It won't be a lightning flash answer, but it will be a yes. The problem is, no one bothers.

The only thing that ever came from christianity is it gave a reason to build many gorgeous cathedrals in the world.<hr></blockquote>

And the good things they've done in the past two thousand years. You've missed that part. Mother Teresa was a great example of who a Christian should be. There are many people who give money and feed the poor, help out in their communities, teach them about Jesus, and all that stuff that believe God wants them to do.

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: SnorSnor ]</p>

 

[Rob]

*Change: Everything that changes is affected by something else; there must be a something changeless
*Efficient Cause: All the secondary causes that esist in the universe require an initial efficien cause
*Neceesity and Possibiity: The fact that all things are dependent on other things point to the need for a being that exist by itself, not dependent on anything else
*Standard of perfection: There must be an ultimate standard for truth, and perfection for our judgements to have truth value
*Design: THe presence of design and purpose in the universe and in ceatures and in parts and relations points to a creative mind as origin

All of these lead to the person we call god

 

[Crono]

To Whomever says the Earth is 6000 years old:

How. All I want to know is how you can be this (I'm trying to stay mature here.. bear with me) foolish. Half life of elements is accurate to within 10 years or so. It is proven. Radioactive decay is perfectly consistent, so how can it be wrong?

And, this 6000 figure... does it apply to Earth or the entire multiverse (read Timeline)? Now, staying in our universe, red shift of distant quasi-stellar radio sources (quasars) has shown that our universe is at least 14 billion years old. And forces on Earth are universal, so red shift, like half-life, is perfectly accurate. So if whichever god you choose created the universe 14 billion years ago, why would he suddenly 13.004 billion years later decide to create Earth and its "unique" life?

To add to this, what if we ever come into contact with extraterrestrial beings? What then? Does god have other creations besides us (like a heavenly affair, i suppose- Earthlings to whichever god(s): "Have you been creating other beings behind our backs?" Jerry, Jerry, Jerry... I'm not positive on this, but don't many christians claim life is unique to this planet and this planet only?

And actually, to date things beyond 5,600 years, we cannot use carbon-14 isotopes, because that is the half-life of carbon. Scientists actually use different isotopes of potassium and other common elements found in organic compounds.

Now even more..
I saw this on TLC or the Disc. Channel once..
These scientists were trying to create their own amino acids. They created a solution of specific elements and passed electricity through it. Guess what? Protein strands (amino acids) were created. So, it seems life can be created by man. No heavenly figure required. Now this can explain the origin of life on Earth: I am sure lightning struck a pool of water with specific elements dissolved in it many times, and created many of these amino acids.. blah blah you know the rest. Also, bacteria have been found living within or right near lava vents on the ocean floor. Perhaps these bacteria were manifested within this molten rock?

 

[SnorSnor]

Also, bacteria have been found living within or right near lava vents on the ocean floor. Perhaps these bacteria were manifested within this molten rock?<hr></blockquote>

I do think I have an answer for this one. Would you mind if it was done for tomorrow though?

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: SnorSnor ]</p>

 

[Crono]

OK I probably didn't make this clear:
Amino acids aren't life. They are proteins that are the building blocks in DNA and RNA. Now RNA is much simpler than DNA, and can be created relatively easily through natural processes (that's why viruses are scattered everywhere) through crude amino bonds. So the first "life forms" were likely primitive unicellular viral bodies with a protein shell to enclose the RNA. Though they do not possess all 7 characteristics of life (a being must have all 7 to be classified as alive), viruses do have 3, which is a step towards creating true life. Over many millenia, these early viruses likely gradually combined with each other and created a more complex DNA, which is still quite simple in the bacteria created through this "fusion". While humans today have millions of genes, the first bacteria (the first true entity to possess all 7 characteristics of life) likely did not even have a complete gene (a gene is composed of thousands of DNA molecules), but a fraction; likely only a few strands of DNA.

 

[Liquid Entropy]

I got bad news christians.

God came up to me, yup.

He was all like "yah, john, I don't exist"

I'm like "woah there, if you don't exist, how
can you be existing"

and he's like "well, order a pizza and I'll tell
you"

and I'm all like "well, are you gunna get rid
of that nasty bumps and holes your causing in my
hizouse cause your so big?"

And he's like, "no, not me, but I"ll encourage
a religious drywall repairman guy to discout you"

and I'm like "that's not really...divine of you"

And he's all up in my grill.

And he says "what then, foo, front, You gotz beef
with he how has no name? You got beef with I AM?"

so I can't take that ****, I don't care if you
think your the salt of the earth, I gotz to
fight back,so I'm all: " waht no, mofo. You want
to get capped just like you son? Just like yo
fool son? Explain the trinity, foo, explain it?
Huh? What now, you momma says your a foo, but you
ain't hearing that. What now? Front mofo, front.
Make with the signs, do it. Don't give me that
thou shalt not test thine god crap, front fo"

As it turns out, dolphins are, in fact, sublime.

God just does a bunch of coke and eats your bread.
If you want to be a religious zealot, I hope
you know a good roofer.

Anyway, apparently they use the bible for
toilet paper up their, when they're not
howling with laughter at "god's folly", aka
the hugh-man.

 

[Mmm Mmm Gopher]

Ok I'd already challenged all religions in general on the first page of this topic, so I'm pretty much done with that.

I'd like to challenge Christianity for a second now.

Originally posted by androza:
[QB]
Another thing I think is funny is how christians are so certain that their God is the only god that exists. [QB]<hr></blockquote>

What really confuses me is the huge jump Christianity takes from Judaism. I forget which rabbi it was, maybe Miamonodes or someone, but when he was told to explain the Torah (old testament) while standing on one leg, he simply said "Do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you."

Until Jesus came along, the bible seemed so simple and made so much sense. Be nice to other people. Do good deeds because God wants you to. There was little mention of afterlife, though some here and there. What little was said hinted to the wicked being punished and those with good hearts would be rewarded. The general gist of it was to be a good person.

The New Testament is like a completely different religion. Suddenly, only through believing in Jesus can you not be cast into the firey pits of h***.

I know a lot of people, christians mind you, who dont think I'm going to **** , because a just God wouldnt condemn a man who was pretty good at heart, but just didnt think that Jesus was the real messiah. I said before that i think we should go to heaven or h*** depending on our character. I believe it was Snor Snor who said that if it were depended on by our character, we'd all go to h***. Well what about before Jesus and even the metion of Satan in the Torah. Human nature has never changed. Sure we've all "sinned" once in a while, but we all make mistakes. Just believing that a man named Jesus died for you, with no proof but word of mouth, shouldnt be the only ticket into "heaven"

I have a lot of friends who respect the fact that I'm Jewish (Well, yeah im atheist but i dont tell them that) and dont try to convince me to convert to Christianity. They think its my right to believe what I want to. Are they bad people for not caring that I'm going to h***, or are they looking at their religion realistically, and using reason over what is written to make the judgement that just believing that one event happened shouldnt determine whether you go to heaven or h***.

Heres another thing that really troubles me. The majority of the people that live in this world aren't Christian. Many of them have good hearts (relatively, snor snor. yes i know that we've all sinned, and we should be condemned to h*** accordingly...ect. ect.). Some were never exposed to Christianity before, while others were but stand firmly by their beliefs, not believing that some man they had never heard of had died in order to save their soul. The God that I thought I had known in the Torah wouldnt sent most of the people in the world to h*** just because they didnt know or didnt believe that his son died for them.

Kinda troubling to know that most of the world will go to h***. If I really believed all that stuff in the new testament, I would certainly become a missionary and try to "save" as many souls as I can.

 

[Treget]

Listen up y'all, here's the truth. I'm not against nor for religion, I'm just telling the truth.

Religion is made up. It is exactly like the mythology of Greeks and Romans. Except for the fact, that people stopped believing in myths, and created a new one.

Since many of you are 10-13 years of age, you might not understand this, probably because you have no knowledge of Greek Mythology.

Anyways, Greek Mythology was created as an explination for everything. If you read the stories, and I mean all the stories, you'll see they explain almost everything that happens. With this Mythology, the Greeks were able to "understand" why things happened.

Now, eventually, people didn't believe in Mythology anymore. So, a religion was created. Many a religion. But Christianity being one the main ones. This, again, is the explination of why things happen. Why people die, or why they live. Why the world turns, and so on.

Now, why do many people believe in things like this? Because, it is human nature to try and understand things. Humans also like to take shortcuts. If we can think of something that explains everything, we'll do it. And we've done it at least 2 major times.

Now, with science, we are coming closer to understand what happens. It's taken thousands of years, and probably will take a lot more too. But, eventually, religion will die out to the truth. People may still believe, but not in a divine being, or a "god."

Now, I'm not going to try and argue with your Christians, because since birth, you've been taught to believe in this. And so be it, you're probably going to until you die. It's not my fault it you're forever endowned into believing into a non-truth.

Just look at the facts. They're all there. Go read up on science, and put whatever is your holy book down. Maybe, just maybe, you'll see the actual situation of why we live and die.

 

[Crono]

When did religion have to get so complex, as with Christianity (I like to call it the unnecessary "spin-off" of Judaism)? Though still an atheist, I greatly respect Judaism and Buddhism for their simple philosophies. Plus, Buddhism really has no deity. It is strict philosophy. There really is no need for the complexity of xianity and islam.

And also, for the Christians: Look at religion through other viewpoints of other religions. You cannot be sure yours is the "true path." Right now I speak as a philosopher, not an atheist. Muslims say theirs is truth. You say yours is truth. All religions say theirs is truth. I think many of you are Christians because you were born into it. Perhaps if you study all other religions, you'll find one better suited to your ideals.

Religion is just a fad. The greek and roman gods were once "in style"; everyone KNEW they were real. Now no one worships them. Perhaps, though, these are the true gods for you to follow. Know we have the judeo-christian god. In years to come people will forget about it and move on to a newer, more updated religion. It seems religions are constantly updated to suit the needs of a certain era.

 

[Mmm Mmm Gopher]

One more thing...

Somewhere in the torah (old testament) it was stated that if parents have a stubborn or rebellious child, and a rabbi determines that he is rebellious and stubborn to the extent that he cannot be controlled, the parents are to bring him outside of the town gates and stone their very own child to death.

Trying to say that this teaching was wrong without actually saying that God was at fault, the Rabbis said that "It never happened, and never will happen. The only reason this law was written is so that you may study it and receive reward." Basically, the Jewish scholars looked at their religion realistically. Yes, these were the words of God. But dude, all the principles the Torah has taught us contradict the stoning of a child because he is rebellious.

In a nutshell, where God's "words" seemed simply outrageous, the Rabbis said "this is no good" and thus told the public that it was not meant to be taken literally.

Couldnt this be the same with the new testament? Think about it. Yeah, its clearly stated that those who do not believe in Jesus and all of that stuff will not be "saved" (in other words, they're gonna burn for eternity). But this would mean the majority of people alive would not be "saved." If you could look at a passage like "only through Jesus can you be received by God," why not say that it means only through Jesus's teachings of kindness and peace can you be received by God?

All I'm trying to say is theres a lot in the old testament that seemed outrageous, so the Rabbis looked at their religion realistically. Does it really seem realistic to you that only Christians can get into heaven just because they're Christian?

By the way, I'm not a Christian. Though I have Jewish background, I really do not believe that there is a God. I've already challenged all religion in a few previous posts. I just wanted to point the finger at Christianity now because I find it to be one of the more outrageous religions of modern day. I would attack fundamentalist Islam, but I dont know enough about the subject to really make any sense.

 

[Crono]

Treg, I'm with you. Religion is something used to answer the unanswerable, or to explain the unexplainable. (By the way, I'm 14, and extremely well educated.)

I mean no insults, but religion is based on this type of ignorance. Take for example: Early man. He finds fire, cannot explain it. He perhaps thinks that some sort of demon has brought this to him. You see? He could not explain it, so he manifests something to try to supply an explanation.

By the way.. A Myth is A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society: "the myth of Eros and Psyche; a creation myth." b. Such stories considered as a group: "the realm of myth."

 

[Mmm Mmm Gopher]

Originally posted by Treget:
So, a religion was created. Many a religion. But Christianity being one the main ones. This, again, is the explination of why things happen. Why people die, or why they live. Why the world turns, and so on.
<hr></blockquote>

Treget, I agree with you all the way. Your post is very similar to one i posted earlier.

Religion was created because man needed an explanation for what he could not explain at the moment. Why are we here? What created the world around us? What happens to us when we die? Do we just cease to exist? Religions were simply man's way of explaining the biggest questions where the least amount of clues were given.

Religions, once established, were widely accepted for one main reason: They were the only available complete answers to the greatest questions of all. They had nothing else to compete with, so people just shrugged and accepted them.

Now we know a lot more about the world around us. Through science, we've been able to obtain new clues about the origin of the universe. Heres the thing: Science is all fact. Religion is all speculation.

The majority of society is still clinging to religion for the same reason they had since the idea was created: it's the only complete answer out there. Science has provided us with a substantial amount of evidence to support many additional theories about the creation of the universe, but most of them are not complete, are comprised of much speculation, and cannot address popular issues such as afterlife. Still, they are supported by facts, unlike religion.

Nevertheless, because religion offers a simple, complete answer to all of the questions we cannot fully answer yet, it still holds society by the collar. Until another complete answer is available, it will continue to do so.

 

[God]

Though shalt not poke fun at my self-fullfilling prophesy, lest I strike you down with my extreme moodyness.

Repent now, mortal with administrative powers, or feel teh power of thine savior's ][4&gt;&lt;0|2!|\|6 skillz.

I will strike you down with terrible vengence and great fury.

 

[Treget]

The lord, thine god, has mad editing skills.

I'm spelling teh as translated via hebrew, twice.

In this year of jubilee, i claim you, from the
jaws of death, the clutches of the devil,
as mine own, as a child of the light.

I AM science. I AM creation. I AM death.

Repent.

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: God ]</p>

 

[Crono]

C'mon treg, gopher and I are extremely well-educated (i apologize for the pomposity) freshmen in highschool and we are 14.

the diety says:
know thine roll and shut thine mouth.
Pomposity only sounds like a big word.
Your children.
Children of Christ

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: God ]</p>

 

[anannomous]

I AM 's will is too great to be known by a mere mortal

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: God ]</p>

 

[Gamer4Fire]

Science will disprove religion, if the religious zealots do not destroy the world first. We are so close to breathtaking technologies that were only fantasy fifty years ago. The new old technologies of handheld devices that let you talk to any one else on earth. Flying vehicles that can move faster than the speed of sound. Cloning!
We are constantly on the edge. Some of the newer technologies are matter transporter technology, X-Ray glasses, Cold Fusion!
When we get the technology to tranverse time we will be able to go back in time and see if this Jesus really existed. We could see if God exists, see if he really did create the universe. Then we could go even further back in time and see how it was created with our own eyes. We will be able to explain the unexplainable. Assuming the extremists don't kill us all because we're working against God.

 

[Mmm Mmm Gopher]

i apologize on my friends behalf. he wants attention and recognition :D . Hes still upset that u called us all 12 year olds.

 

[Crono]

Gamer4Fire, Time travel is impossible, silly boy.

We can only theoretically go to a different universe pinpointed in that specific era.

Read Timeline.

 

[Mmm Mmm Gopher]

Thou shalt not reiterate.

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: God ]</p>

 

[Mmm Mmm Gopher]

Hey, "GOD" if you are member 4, how can you be a junior member with only 4 posts? And how come you edited my good friend crono's msg?