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Matchup Thread: WHAT TIME IS IT?

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PKNintendo

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wrong, DK can survive his f smash at110% depending on in your in the middle of the stage or not which DK should be



it is not like an infinite, we (dk mains) complain a lot about DDD and ICs(somewhat) about the infinte. you don't really care about warios chaingrab because we know we can survive it.



generalization and irrelevant for the first part and second part of your post respectively



what the hell is wrong with the DK boards besides his 1 post. Do you really think we're all this bad?



true but Wario does not pose a threat




he's CBK, what else can I say?
On wii now.us Anywho, theres nothing wrong with Dk mains Ripple.us Dont take it that way. DK Mains are great too. Cbk is just annoying.

Also, for the downthrow to fsmash, give Dk.s weight, it kills at 110 near the edge of fdic and close to 130 in the middle
 

ssbbFICTION

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Also, for the downthrow to fsmash, give Dk.s weight, it kills at 110 near the edge of fdic and close to 130 in the middle
LOOOOOL. F smash won't kill a good DK on the middle of FD (by good DK i mean knows the F smash is coming and DI's it) until maybe around 150 I think. They are holding the shield button anyway so why not just walk over and fart their spotdodge lol.

..........Now for the IC matchup

This matchup DEFINETELY goes to DK. Anyone who says otherwise probably doesnt know what they are talking about lol. Here we go:

1. Dk outranges IC on every move besides IC down-b (Blizzard), which you can giant punch through every single time with no problem for a free kill.

2. IC's are horrible in the air, and focus on grabs. You can keep them at a distance with tilts and if they try to sneak in just use down b (ground pound) to either hit them both or desync them.

3. CARGOOOOOOOOOOOO hold is intensely broken in this matchup to my experience. With the giant time frame of invincility that DK gets, just grab nana (if you grab popo just toss him away and go after nana) just go into cargo, run of the edge and stagespike. Popo will pound on you but to no avail. Good IC will attempt to save nana using a well timed up b near the ledge. Oh no they are both above you in fall special...what to do...what to do.... If you are on stages like smashville or bf you can even just foostool nana for a garunteed kill or toss her under the stage to make it harder for popo to save her.

4. The classic IC is to shield grab to 0-death. Just grounded-up into them. If you poke either one of their shields, just grab the other one and go cargo-gimp-mode on them. If you poke both of their shields than all the better, they are in the air for some good DK pwnage.

5. DK has the gimps on IC. If they up b together, you have a chance to drop down and bair popo into the stage (obviously not the ideal situation but it still happens a lot). If they side b together just bair or up b through them for some good edgeguarding opportunities. Its easy to spike nana on her own. When you have popo by himself you can giant punch/f smash through his hammer every time.



Its really easy actually, probably IC's worst matchup IMO
 

Ripple

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sry for the double post, but since ripple is probably watching this...CHECK YOUR PMS NAO!

thx
just now adding you

edit: added

super edit: no one gets to post anything on the ICs until I post. mine will be a very long post tomorrow
 

Ragnar0k

Smash Master
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Down b is amazing at preventing grabs.

@ PKNintendo, You joined 3 months ago and you main Ness. You come to the DK matchup threads all the time and tell us that DK can't do anything. Stop trolling. CBK might be cocky but he usually speaks the truth and he's a respected DK player.
 

Ripple

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Down b is amazing at preventing grabs.

@ PKNintendo, You joined 3 months ago and you main Ness. You come to the DK matchup threads all the time and tell us that DK can't do anything. Stop trolling. CBK might be cocky but he usually speaks the truth and he's a respected DK player.

PKN is not trolling, he was simply defending his character when we were arguing about ness vs DK and it was blown into an argument between him and CBK.

and now with CBK's crazy post PKN was trying to say what was wrong with CBK's post and put it info regarding what wario has on DK. CBK does have a way of glorifying DK and calling every other character crapwhich I also do not enjoy but I put up with it.

just know that PKN is not trolling, he is actually contributing
 

PKNintendo

Smash Master
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Good news everyone DK can shield the Fsmash!

It looks like during my tests, my Shield button wasn't properly working.

Thanks for defending me Ripple, I kindly owe you one.
 

Ripple

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My bad PKNintendo and everyone, I've had a bit to drink lol.

please don't post when you've had something to drink then. and don't take that as a motherly comment.
 

DMG

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Grabs for Wario take 6 frames I think, and Fsmash takes 8 (I know Fiction knows the real frame data, same for 3GOD.)

Frame advantage is at least 6 since Wario can regrab, and I would bet it is at least a tiny bit more than 6 considering we can regrab DK even if our timing is a frame or two off.

Also, lol IC's vs DK... DK is not their worst matchup, G&W and MK are a bigger threat to IC's than DK. I would put it as even maybe, I dunno I play a pretty mean IC's but I haven't played any DK's with them.
 

ssbbFICTION

Smash Champion
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Lol...maybe GW is worse, but since when can GW get rid of nana at 0 just by grabbing her and walking off the stage lol.

EDIT: Quiet you...captain spotdodge. The only frame data I know is from shell's guide anyway, just like you.
 

itsthebigfoot

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Grabs for Wario take 6 frames I think, and Fsmash takes 8 (I know Fiction knows the real frame data, same for 3GOD.)

Frame advantage is at least 6 since Wario can regrab, and I would bet it is at least a tiny bit more than 6 considering we can regrab DK even if our timing is a frame or two off.

Also, lol IC's vs DK... DK is not their worst matchup, G&W and MK are a bigger threat to IC's than DK. I would put it as even maybe, I dunno I play a pretty mean IC's but I haven't played any DK's with them.
I will MM you're IC's when you eventually get out here. also, **** BIO, I'm keeping my date
 

Donkey Bong

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ICs v DK

dont get grabbed. with their crap grab range, its pretty easy to avoid. anytime i get grabbed by the ICs its usually because i messed up and did something dumb. as previously mentioned, only their blizzard attack outranges DK and if grounded, our down b wins :)

their smash attacks are good though, be on the lookout for the usmash. also watch out for the fsmash, the hit box is way behind them, where the hammer starts its swing. dsmash wont kill, but it will build an insane amount of damage if the ICs do it together and every hit connects, approximately 40% with one smash.
their sideb wins against our upb priority wise, BUT if they hit DK during super armor frames, they're toast
they die at low percentages, i've killed them as early as 70-80% without gimping them (thank you 9 wind paunch)

now comes the good stuff. as mentioned earlier, they're easily seperated by using the down b and harrasing one of them. when seperated, they'll go after each other, so it's ridiculously easy to predict where the other will go. have a ball DK.
when knocked off the stage, use your bair, dair and fair. any of them will work, and they will be easy to connect, since the IC will be worried about getting back with their teammate.
sometimes their up b glitches out, even when they're synched. sucks for them
they'll have a lot of trouble killing you, their kill moves are the usmash, fsmash and bair.
thats all i can think of for now, if i come up with any more i'll post it.
 

ssbbFICTION

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Are you f smashing at a lower percentage where he hits the ground too early from the throw?
 

i1337

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lol, earlier today, me and ripple were playing wifi friendlies, i was dk and he was link, and we both had 1 stock left. i killed him with the "shoulder" of a donkey punch (the hitbox that sends you straight up), but just before that he threw his boomerang which made me die in fallspecial because of the wind effect....XD

it was too long for a replay tho. X_x
 

Punishment Divine

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You could use the Mike Haze method and right as they start CGing get as close as you can to them and scream at the top of your lungs. Pretty effective counter, imo.

My friend Will likes to use SH F-B to beat their shieldgrab. He also makes good use of D-B to keep them away. And obviously he gets them desynched and hits Nana with his giant foot, and keeps them juggled with uairs. Outside of the CG they really have nothing on him so if you knock that ***** away, you're set.
 

Jmex

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You could use the Mike Haze method and right as they start CGing get as close as you can to them and scream at the top of your lungs. Pretty effective counter, imo.
I should have used this method yesterday. Although sadly it was Mike Haze doing the chain grabbing.:(
 

Tujex

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I haven't played any tourney level IC's, but the ones I've played were fully capable of CG'ing opponents o-death, which is basically all the guys need.

But yeah, their grab range blows and Dk's range *****.....so it's pretty self-explanatory what needs to happen here. Keep them off the ground and away from you and you're all good.
 

itsthebigfoot

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^ mikehaze is convinced that dk counters marth, so he gave up on the matchup.

his secondary is falco, so he just cg's the crap out of dk's. don't cp luigis on him.

thankfully, his falco isn't that good, so when you get around the cg you can probably win
 

Punishment Divine

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^ mikehaze is convinced that dk counters marth, so he gave up on the matchup.

his secondary is falco, so he just cg's the crap out of dk's. don't cp luigis on him.

thankfully, his falco isn't that good, so when you get around the cg you can probably win
DK soft counters Marth. I don't blame him, it's annoying as hell.
 

Jmex

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Yea, i like the match up against Falco, provided they dont camp the whole match with the lazer, then its fine (Chain grab included). I just need to learn the match up is all.
 

Ripple

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alright guys let me first say that this match up is most likely 55-45 for the ICs and we probably know why its slightly in their favor. *coughchaingrabtospikecough* you may be thinking that this match up is impossible and if your inexperienced, it is. you must limit the moves you use in this match up very strictly.

the order of most to least movers used in this match are as follows.

1st. Down B
2nd. D tilt
3rd. SA Punch
4th. Grounded Up B
5th. bair
6th. F smash

do not use any other move unless circumstances call for it such as the ICs being on a platform(up smash) or the shield is severely diminished(side b). you must make sure to hit with these attacks or you may be heavily punished for it.

move discussion and explanation

you're probably wondering to yourself "why do we have to limit our move set so much Rip?" well, I'll tell you why. its because you MUST use attacks that don't have much lag or they have an insane about of shield pressure otherwise you are going to get grabbed, and the above moves are the only ones that are good enough for the job. lets discuss each one now.

1. Down B: this move should basically be spammed as a back the hell away and as a tech chase after you hit them with another move. It has an insane amount of pressure and can be punished, but only from the air. very nice damage(14%) and hits them up into the air, the worst place for the climbers. also out spaces the blizzard by ICs. this is your saving grace in this match up.

2. D tilt: another very important move in this match up. starts fast, ends fast does about 9% and has the possibility of tripping which leads to Down b or tech chased grounded up which is 40% right there. I do not recommend using F tilt because there is more lag for that 1% more. stick with the d tilt.

3. SA Punch: the perfect move in this match but sadly, it must be charged and you are not going to get much charging done in this match. This move has SA, insane reach, insane shield pressure, 29% damage, can be pivoted, and kills around 90% and can hopefully hit nana if they power shield it. any chance you get to charge this, do it. it will save your *** many times.

4th. grounded UP B. What do Ics love to do to us that make us pissed off? they approach shield our attacks and grab. not anymore my friends. if you ever see an ICs player running at you the first thing that I should see is a grounded up b moving towards them.(or ground pound)

5th. bair: you should know when to use this by now if you play DK

6th. F smash: yeah crazy right? not so much. while this attack is slow. if you charge it, it gets good. if you ever find yourself to close for comfort CHARGE a F smash about 1/4 to 1/3 of full. this for some reason adds a ridiculous amount of knock back and shield pressure. it basically becomes a little worse version of SA Punch. ALWAYS, ALWAYS CHARGE THIS WHEN YOU USE IT!



what can Ics do to litlle ol' DK?

They can **** and Pillage you in the face!
you should know the drill by now, don't get grabbed or you will most likely lose a stock. you really need to focus on what you do and when. Don't not think for even a second. always think about what he can do to you. and what limited move you have that can stop that. general problems I here are...

that blizzard does like 30% and can be spammed by desyncing them and alternating short hopped down B's that basically make a impenetrable wall of destruction.

DK can not jump over the ICs and punish them instead DK must use down b or SA punch to hit them or you can just jump over them anyway and let it go unpunished to get better spacing. this is your call

These ICs know how to play DK, they play using aerials!


good, that's how we want them. every move becomes available when they realize they can't grab you. which turns the match into your favor.

Should I try grabbing and cargo tossing? it seems like a good idea to get them separated

I honestly never go for the grab them unless they are already desynced. and when I do it is usually a pivot grab so its not so obvious.

How do I punish their side b when it is used?
Don't try. I'm serious. for some reason when they are both together this thing has almost no lag and anything you do out of shield will be power shielded by them including d smash.

when there is only one using it and you get hit you can still punish with a grab or d smash for some reason.

when I get grabbed they just spike me. help?

learn to Smash DI. this will let you live until 180% against them and will also allow you to hit the stage when they attempt to spike you. allowing you to tech.

I would have some videos of me vs chewyy that were done today but most of them were just black because part of the cable to record fell out. I do however have 2. I'll get those later
 

fox219

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ok, this board has no matchup thread, since ripple stopped running his and brahma disappeared (forever, he's dead, never coming back, and its probably your fault) I'll make the new thread, and hopefully a mod will come by and sticky it (i'd prefer to do this on AiB cause i can mod the threads there)

so here it is, super official matchup thread, right now it'll be a bunch of characters with *covered later under them

Bowsah
* covered later

Captain Falcon
*covered later

Diddy
* covered later

DK ----

Falco 6-4 dk disadvantage
he will camp the hell out of you
he will camp the hell out of you because it's all he can do.
if he cgs you, save your second jump until after the spike, you will survive
he cannot spike you out of upb, if you see him going for a spike, upb right there
if he hits you with a nair, SDI back and punish with an upb
don't rely on bair approaches, the laser wins, go for ftilt instead.
he is gimpable, stick a dair in front of his sideb trajectory
don't roll behind the fsmash, thats where the sweetspot is

cp luigis mansion or brinstar

Fox
* covered later

Ganon
* covered later

Ice climbers
discuss

Ike
* covered later

Jiggs
* covered later

King Dedede bad

Kirby
* covered later

Link
* covered later

Lucario 5-5
This is a match between the two most momentum based characters in the game, keep that in mind

Tips: ftilt clanks with the aura sphere until very late (the 100s range)
you out range him a bit, use that to your advantage
wiggle out of the sideb cg, you an break out before 20%
use the SA punch a lot, it helps in this matchup
you will get combo'd, don't let it get to you
try to get the first hit, it helps a lot
your usmash has more range than his dair, challenge him, you'll win.
go for early kills, don't let him live past 110
he has startup lag on most of his ground stuff, use that to your advantage.
rely on your ledge pressure game, it can help you get the early kills you need

Lucas
* covered later

Luigi
* covered later

Mario
* covered later

Marth 5-5
you outrange him, abuse that
you kill him very early
watch out for dairs off the ledge
bairs in the air work well
cp brinstar, japes if they ban brinstar

Metaknight 5-5
The tornado hurts a lot, however, if he approaches with it, you have 4-5 options to take it out (punch, ftilt, fsmash, dtilt, sometimes downb). if he uses it up close, you can SDI up and escape. if you do get caught in it, hold up and mash b, you're upb will break out, try to find somewhere safe to land.
SDI is important, if you can sdi the fair, you can punissh with a punch or a fast falled upb,also ftilt if you're near the ground.
Specials are important, the SA on your neutral b breaks a lot of his attacks, downb forces him to approach from the air, which is good because his air speed is terrible. (he can technically run at you and fair, but if you SDI it and punch him, he kinda stops doing that). GFSC headbutt allows you to punish the glide attack with 14% and a kill move.
Watch out for dair gimps, if he gimps you you lose your weight advantage
don't be afraid of him, your bair beats his aerials, and you outrange him on the ground.
DI properly and you'll live forever, you're really heavy, he's pretty light, don't be surprised to see your stokc last to 160 if you di

Mr. Game and Watch 5-5 (debated dk adv)
though i'm not personally convinced and will put up a video soon. pages 1-4

tips:
use SA a lot
you can gimp him, which is rare for gdubs matchups
if he dthrows, move, you can make it out before he leads into something else if you're quick
start using kill moves when he's in the 50's-60's, they'll work
If you lose, counterpick Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, or maybe corneria if you're gutsy and it's legal. do not pick brinstar

Ness
* covered later

Olimar 4-6
i don't agree with it, you all need to play more olimars, tips later

Peach
* covered later

Pikachu
* covered later

Pit
* covered later

Pokemon Trainer
* covered later

R.O.B. 5-5 (debated both ways)

Summary
remember those blowup clowns that you got as a kid? the ones that kept popping back up no matter how hard you hit them, with that big stupid grin on there faces. the ones that infuriated you so much that you started throwing rocks at it until one punched a hole in it and the thing deflated. thats rob for you, no matter how many time you land a bair square in his robot face, he's gonna recover. luckily for you, you don't die for longer, and fair can kill him. you will get camped in this matchup, and if you haven't learned to deal with it, this match can be quite hard, but once you learn to get around it, the matchups not so bad.

Tips
Grab the gyro, your glide toss is a free approach.
juggle him, he can't do anything when you're below him
powershield the laser, this helps a lot
plan for him to spotdodge, stay back a bit and downb or sideb
gimp with fair, its the only thing that can actually gimp him.
DI, di the dsmash up, di nairs and upsmash away, you won't di for a long time
watch out for bairs, they're pretty easy to see coming though

Counterpicks
Japes
Brinstar


Samus
* covered later

Sheik
* covered later

Snake 5-5 leaning towards dk advantage
dk can do a lot of dumb things against snake, go for throws, all your throws, this is the one matchup where dthrow is not as good as uthrow. the point of the throws is to get snake off the stage so you can run him down, bthrow works best. you got a weight/kill power advantage as well, especially since you can get a kill at around 60% with a grab remotely near a ledge, simply cargo - dthrow - spike.

Good counterpicks are Jungle Japes, Brinstar, and Rainbow Cruise

Sonic
* covered later

Tink
* covered later

Wario 4-6
it's not because of the cg, I could write an essay explaining the effects of his aerial movement when combined with his combo potential and killing power, but that can wait

Wolf
* covered later

Yoshi
* covered later

Zelda
* covered later

Zamus
* covered later

king dedede is a bad matchup, there is no point in covering it, so i will skip that and start with Game and Watch
Dedede doesn't deserve to be top tier. he has a disadvantage to link!!!! dedede has like a disadvantage everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Ragnar0k

Smash Master
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I don't really play against IC's that much but wouldn't cargo'ing one be a good idea. Not only to get them separated but also to prevent the one still standing from grabbing you.
 

itsthebigfoot

Smash Lord
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Dedede doesn't deserve to be top tier. he has a disadvantage to link!!!! dedede has like a disadvantage everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!
why are you posting this dumb crap in the dk boards

also, atomsk, teba, aero, or m2k. top 4 dededes, name one link that's beaten any of them, cause d3 can cg - gimp every stock if he's doinitrite (i've seen teba do this first hand)

for ic's, ripple, you got most of it but the really big thing is separate and gimp nana. dk can do it quite easily. upb ledge stall also buttseckses their recovery.

i think it's neutral at least
 

Ripple

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why are you posting this dumb crap in the dk boards

also, atomsk, teba, aero, or m2k. top 4 dededes, name one link that's beaten any of them, cause d3 can cg - gimp every stock if he's doinitrite (i've seen teba do this first hand)

for ic's, ripple, you got most of it but the really big thing is separate and gimp nana. dk can do it quite easily. upb ledge stall also buttseckses their recovery.

i think it's neutral at least

I was too focused on what's not so obvious that I forgot the most obvious. attack that pink piece of ****!
 
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