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Matchup Rediscussion: Zelda vs Ivysaur
- Thread starter Kataefi
- Start date
So fire moves do more damage blah blah blah, I don't really think Ivysaur will get hit with Dins unless he's stupidly using razor leafs. Uair I guess can connect every once in a while.
Anyways i'm interested to hear from anyone who's played a player competent with Ivysaur lol. I'd imagine his bair is a beastly spacing tool against Zelda correct? Other than that I really don't even know much about Ivy's moveset lmao.
His fair and dash attack are decent KO moves, up b on the ground can kill, nair can lead into things like BS or jabs, dont get hit by uair or usmash, fsmash has pretty good range but it's fairly easy to avoid, his dsmash is garbage.....um I think Zelda ***** him offstage tbh just avoid the razor leaf he's going to throw at you and then bait an airdodge or simply use nair.
I would IMAGINE this to be 55-45 Zelda MAYBE a 60-40.
Anyways i'm interested to hear from anyone who's played a player competent with Ivysaur lol. I'd imagine his bair is a beastly spacing tool against Zelda correct? Other than that I really don't even know much about Ivy's moveset lmao.
His fair and dash attack are decent KO moves, up b on the ground can kill, nair can lead into things like BS or jabs, dont get hit by uair or usmash, fsmash has pretty good range but it's fairly easy to avoid, his dsmash is garbage.....um I think Zelda ***** him offstage tbh just avoid the razor leaf he's going to throw at you and then bait an airdodge or simply use nair.
I would IMAGINE this to be 55-45 Zelda MAYBE a 60-40.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Don't get pivot grabbed. Seriously.
Okay cool so I'm just gonna throw some things out to get some discussion going:
- edgeguarding Ivy
- dealing with r.leaf spam
- dealing with ivy's up close game
- any threatening or frustrating aerials?
- and what is the optimal SDI for bullet seed? <-- this one's for me... I often SDI sharply out and to the left or right depending on where I'm caught but sometimes it acts really weird.
etc etc etc...
If people can comment on this PLUS anything else that would be great.
- edgeguarding Ivy
- dealing with r.leaf spam
- dealing with ivy's up close game
- any threatening or frustrating aerials?
- and what is the optimal SDI for bullet seed? <-- this one's for me... I often SDI sharply out and to the left or right depending on where I'm caught but sometimes it acts really weird.
etc etc etc...
If people can comment on this PLUS anything else that would be great.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Edgeguarding Ivysaur is easy, just grab the ledge and watch out for Razor Leafs.
You can't really stop Razor Leaf onstage, since it's a superior camping projectile compared to Din's. (but what isn't?) Only way to deal with Razor Leaf is to approach, but that puts you at risk of getting hit by pviot grabs.
Ivysaur's close game is pretty bad honestly, kind of like Zelda's. Ivysaur's only fast move on the ground is Ftilt and Bullet Seed. Ivysaur has a slow jab, but at least her Dtilt can be used for some epic spacing. (it's amazing) Just watch out for pivot grabs. Those are actually decent.
You'd have to approach carefully, and get Ivysaur in the air, where you can capitalize. Ivysaur is horrifically slow in the air, so you can set her up for some damage. As for Bullet Seed, watch out for it. Since it's like, a frame 4 move with invincibility frames, it can be used for combo breaking purposes in certain situations. If you're stuck in the seeds, just DI out and try to kick him. (it's possible if the Ivysaur overexerts herself and doesn't stop shooting seeds)
You can't really stop Razor Leaf onstage, since it's a superior camping projectile compared to Din's. (but what isn't?) Only way to deal with Razor Leaf is to approach, but that puts you at risk of getting hit by pviot grabs.
Ivysaur's close game is pretty bad honestly, kind of like Zelda's. Ivysaur's only fast move on the ground is Ftilt and Bullet Seed. Ivysaur has a slow jab, but at least her Dtilt can be used for some epic spacing. (it's amazing) Just watch out for pivot grabs. Those are actually decent.
You'd have to approach carefully, and get Ivysaur in the air, where you can capitalize. Ivysaur is horrifically slow in the air, so you can set her up for some damage. As for Bullet Seed, watch out for it. Since it's like, a frame 4 move with invincibility frames, it can be used for combo breaking purposes in certain situations. If you're stuck in the seeds, just DI out and try to kick him. (it's possible if the Ivysaur overexerts herself and doesn't stop shooting seeds)
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
I mostly agree with MrEh on this matchup but not about the razor leaf part. It has less range than Din's so if you retreat and Din's you can force him to approach, and it is one of those projectiles where Din's can destroy it while still hitting Ivy. Not the easiest thing to do but definitely worth remembering during the match. Also... Din's will do more damage than the razor leaf, you can get more damage on him from getting hit by the razor leaf but angling your Din's downward to make sure to hit him. Razor leaf is not easy to deal with it just needs to be dealt with carefully. If you are even a bit reckless you will molested by them for a bit.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
...........Am..... I the only one who doesn't think Razor Leaf is that hard to deal with? 
It's pretty slow. @.@ And she can't throw them out that often. Perfect shield ftw.
Compared to more common campers (Fox, Falco, Pit, etc.), I just.... didn't expect people to say it's hard to get around. I'm not criticizing, mind you.... the only Ivysaur I really play against often is my friend's Ivy in B+ (where Razor Leaf is harder to get past) and occasionally in regular Brawl. I'm just confused.
It's pretty slow. @.@ And she can't throw them out that often. Perfect shield ftw.
Compared to more common campers (Fox, Falco, Pit, etc.), I just.... didn't expect people to say it's hard to get around. I'm not criticizing, mind you.... the only Ivysaur I really play against often is my friend's Ivy in B+ (where Razor Leaf is harder to get past) and occasionally in regular Brawl. I'm just confused.
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
Its definitely not in my list of be projectiles to be afraid of. But it is fairly fast and usually if I get hit by one I get hit by a few more lol. It certainly does not make or break this matchup since from far away Din's has more range and can hit both Ivy and the leaf. And from close you if you prepare you will be doing more damage than Ivy with your projectile.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Gotcha. I didn't realize it was that fast, tbh.
Guess I play too much B+..... and vs. too many spacies/Pits/etc.
Guess I play too much B+..... and vs. too many spacies/Pits/etc.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Razor Leaf is not a good projectile. That being said, it still accomplishes the simple thing that wrecks Zelda: it forces her to approach.
And no, retreating Din's will no help you here. Ivysaur can just move forward while being out of your reach and shoot more leaves. She shields your Din's, and the process repeats. Any attempt to outcamp Ivysaur will only be met with MOAR leaves. Your only real option is to approach.
Approach, and watch out for pivot grabs. lol
And no, retreating Din's will no help you here. Ivysaur can just move forward while being out of your reach and shoot more leaves. She shields your Din's, and the process repeats. Any attempt to outcamp Ivysaur will only be met with MOAR leaves. Your only real option is to approach.
Approach, and watch out for pivot grabs. lol
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
You really don't have to approach, I swear. Just distance yourself and use retreating Din's to hover over the leaves if you have to. Ivy's pivot grab is pretty good though.
Obviously if you are getting hit by numerous leaves and are not doing enough damage to counteract this it is time to approach. But it is very possible to force the Ivy to approach you. We have type advantage guys... ice and fire... Ivy is ****ed.
Obviously if you are getting hit by numerous leaves and are not doing enough damage to counteract this it is time to approach. But it is very possible to force the Ivy to approach you. We have type advantage guys... ice and fire... Ivy is ****ed.
Veggie123
Smash Journeyman
Ivy's bair is kinda annoying and works pretty well at keeping Zelda out, that said though it does a pitiful amount of damage. I don't find Ivysaur intimidating at all...Zelda being able to edgeguard Ivysaur fairly easily saya a lot. He has decent range on a few of his moves though, so I'd keep track of spacing as always.
His pivot grab is good, but I think it has more lag after than Yoshi/Olimar/Lucas and has less range iirc.
I'll be optimistic and say around 6-4 Zelda.
His pivot grab is good, but I think it has more lag after than Yoshi/Olimar/Lucas and has less range iirc.
I'll be optimistic and say around 6-4 Zelda.
ololololol...........Am..... I the only one who doesn't think Razor Leaf is that hard to deal with?
It's pretty slow. @.@ And she can't throw them out that often. Nayru's ftw.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Yeaaaaah, I'm gonna need you to not change my quotes into such failure. ;;
I can't even remember the last time I used Naryu's to reflect something (except on wifi).
I can't even remember the last time I used Naryu's to reflect something (except on wifi).
MrEh
Smash Hero
Using Naryu's to reflect Razor Leaf is laughable.
If Ivysaur is spacing, the reflected Leaf won't even reach her. lol
If Ivysaur is spacing, the reflected Leaf won't even reach her. lol
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
Using Nayru's to reflect almost anything is laughable, unless it is a super duper surprise Nayru's while in the air...
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Fully powered Charge Shots and Aura Spheres are the only things I reflect that I can think of off the top of my head. EDIT: Oh, and badly spaced PK Fires from Ness.
But uh, yeah. About dat Ivysaur.
....I got nuffin.
But uh, yeah. About dat Ivysaur.
....I got nuffin.
how does zelda get through razor leaf and back air?
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Shield button.
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
She really should force him to approach her.
But if you can't do that power shield every thing and gun-ho!
But if you can't do that power shield every thing and gun-ho!
how does zelda get through bair and razor leaf and deal damage/get on the offensive. does she have anything out of sheild with enough range to punish bair?
Zelda can't force an approach
Zelda can't force an approach
MrEh
Smash Hero
How does she get through?
She actually starts MOVING toward's Ivysaur. The stage is gonna run out sometime.
She actually starts MOVING toward's Ivysaur. The stage is gonna run out sometime.
Ivy can bair to ftilt or jab to prevent that. sure you may get all the way to the edge but Ivy also has the option of switching sides again and continuing the process.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
So don't let her get past you. This isn't Fox or Pikachu or another quick character..... Ivysaur isn't exactly the speediest thing who has a ton of options to blow past you.
she can prob just roll past you without much fear of retribution.
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
Rolling is one of the few things Nayru's is good against! ^_^
true that.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Ivysaur is also slow as hell in the air, and it's extremely difficult for Ivysaur to get grounded again if she get's knocked into the air. (or worse, offstage)
If you don't give her room to do stuff, Ivysaur is ****ed. Her only real combo-breaking move is Bullet Seed, and that is ridiculously punishable if baited.