MrEh
Smash Hero
Take him to WarioWare or Spear Pillar.
Because in those stages, you certainly won't be worrying about the lasers.
Because in those stages, you certainly won't be worrying about the lasers.
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Matchup Rediscussion: Zelda vs Falco
- Thread starter Kataefi
- Start date
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
See, we really need Luigi's Mansion.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
He was TTing. (Truthfully Trolling.)
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Ah i see. well what do you think bout halbred as a CP?
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
I can't recover on this stage at all. Not really my favorite, but if it works for you...
MrEh
Smash Hero
If you are a Zelda main, and you consider counterpicking Halberd, then you're doing it wrong.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
when the platforms land on the ship is where i have trouble recovering.
@ mreh can u explain whats wrong with halberd?
powuh_of_PIE
Smash Journeyman
Fix'd. Come on MrEh, you're slipping.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
That's where you have trouble recovering??
I have the most trouble when the platform is up in the air..... if your aim is anything less than perfect, you'll end up going right through the bottom and falling to your death. It's like Delfino, only much, much worse in my experience.
Lolol. Uh oh, troll wars?!?!
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
How's Castle Siege against Falco? That seems a bit better than... Halberd...
Though, as I have been informed by our resident Ike, it may not be too terrible since he sucks killing off the top. I guess I'm too concerned with recovering.
Though, as I have been informed by our resident Ike, it may not be too terrible since he sucks killing off the top. I guess I'm too concerned with recovering.
Half-Split Soul
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,686
CS has some useful properties in all of its forms, so it could work against Falco. The first tranformation has few platforms and slanted main floor, so it slightly limits laser spam. Not by much, but it´s still better than nothing.
The second trasformation has those statues that limit Falco´s laser game and make Zelda´s smashes last longer. The walk-off edges could actually allow her to kill with her throws if she lands a grab near the edge. The problem is Falco can use this tactic too and he´s way faster than Zelda.
The main platform in the third transformation tilts, again limiting the usage of lasers. It also has short blastzones, making LKs and her other attacks more deadly.
Overall, I think it´s a fairly good choice for CP if you feel comfortable there.
The second trasformation has those statues that limit Falco´s laser game and make Zelda´s smashes last longer. The walk-off edges could actually allow her to kill with her throws if she lands a grab near the edge. The problem is Falco can use this tactic too and he´s way faster than Zelda.
The main platform in the third transformation tilts, again limiting the usage of lasers. It also has short blastzones, making LKs and her other attacks more deadly.
Overall, I think it´s a fairly good choice for CP if you feel comfortable there.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Castle Siege should NEVER be chosen as a counterpick, unless you're Dedede. (but even then, I would rather use FD)
The first and third part are just basic stages with dumb ledges. The second part just promotes Falco camping.
The first and third part are just basic stages with dumb ledges. The second part just promotes Falco camping.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Castle Siege is actually a pretty good Zelda CP in general. I've been trying to play there as much as possible lately, and if you can get used to the platform configs and the transformation process (which can make funky things happen, like early grab releases and surprise KOs if you're too close to the top), Zelda has the potential to do pretty well there.
Plus, a lot of people don't play on Castle Siege often, in my experience, so they're usually a bit uncomfortable there.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Yeah i hit the wall when recovering and i die kind of like yoshi's. The other part of the stage i just teleport in any direction.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Castle Siege is only fun until you get stuck under the ledge.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Yeah, the ledge on the first part is doodoo, but after forcing myself to play there over and over..... it's not so bad. It doesn't outweigh the pros, imho, but stage selection is always a lot of player preference.
@AlmostLegendary: teleporting "in any direction" is likely to get you killed...... have you seen FW's cooldown???
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
I agree with KayLo here.
the stage is not perfect, but most of its ledge problems can be combatted with familiarity. The stage is one of the better stages at minimizing his runaway and camp strategies for us.
the stage is not perfect, but most of its ledge problems can be combatted with familiarity. The stage is one of the better stages at minimizing his runaway and camp strategies for us.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Just take him to WarioWare or Spear Pillar.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
yeah it blows. but it beats falling thru the stage and if your percentage is low enough then it worth the risk.
Half-Split Soul
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,686
My thoughts exactly. At first I got gimped there all the time but over the time it happens less and less.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
on certain stages (japes for example) it's practically 80:20 on us
On Mansion, on the other hand, I'd go as far as to say it's our advantage...
but on most stages, he probably soft counters us... which means anywhere from 55:45-65:35 right?
On Mansion, on the other hand, I'd go as far as to say it's our advantage...
but on most stages, he probably soft counters us... which means anywhere from 55:45-65:35 right?
sniperworm
Smash Ace
Even if Falco's only two attacks on the ground were jab and grab, I'd still say that he'd have the advantage...
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
60-40 Big Z get wrecked falco.
Slight advantage for Falco.......I strongly disagree with him being a soft counter to Zelda.
Your dtilt>dsmash trip combo is awful for Falco and really sets him up for his horribly predictable recovery.
This is a matchup where Zelda can actually live for a while. None of Falco's kill moves are very safe on block.....so bair OoS is a great punisher if he smashes on your shield. I've actually found that most Falco's will wait until a fresh bair will kill instead of opting for a riskier kill move......correct me if i'm wrong.
Laser camping is of course difficult for Zelda......but it really isn't all that hard if you just have patience and learn not to rush into a trap or make mistakes.
This is one of those matchups where I feel that You have a pretty even chance if you Get BF or SV for the nuetral..........you will lose on Falco's cp.........and then Zelda will win on hers.
Your dtilt>dsmash trip combo is awful for Falco and really sets him up for his horribly predictable recovery.
This is a matchup where Zelda can actually live for a while. None of Falco's kill moves are very safe on block.....so bair OoS is a great punisher if he smashes on your shield. I've actually found that most Falco's will wait until a fresh bair will kill instead of opting for a riskier kill move......correct me if i'm wrong.
Laser camping is of course difficult for Zelda......but it really isn't all that hard if you just have patience and learn not to rush into a trap or make mistakes.
This is one of those matchups where I feel that You have a pretty even chance if you Get BF or SV for the nuetral..........you will lose on Falco's cp.........and then Zelda will win on hers.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Where does the advantage come in at? We live longer kill him early. I think fsmash out ranges all of his stuff and as long as you space properly you shouldn't have any trouble.
He is very hard to get inside. He's a defensive monster, even once you get inside he has better options up close.......jab's already been mentioned previously in the thread.
He really doesn't have a difficult time getting you into kill range.........he just has trouble landing a kill move. Zelda also doesn't have easy ways of racking damage so you have to make every hit count and hopefully force him into some precarious situations offstage.
Fsmash is also not the fastest move to just throw out there so make sure you space properly. Fsmash doesn't have all that much cooldown time though so of course it's still a pretty decent spacing tool. I would actually recommend more dtilt in this matchup when your near Falco.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
Falco's CP should give him more of an advantage than ours can for us. And Falco still has an advantage on SV and BF, though not a huge one.
that's 55-60 his advantage right there.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Jab could be a problem but if you're spacing properly you should be fine.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
yeah, try that.
sniperworm
Smash Ace
No you won't be. The only move you can use for spacing that he can't jab you out of is Din's (and there's no way Zelda can win a camping war against a good Falco).
Yes 55-45 Falco. You take him to a stage that limits the usefulness of laser camping and Zelda's options against Falco all of a sudden become a lot more viable.
That's your counter argument? Stay out of the thread if you can't do better than that.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
just out of curiosity.
with sheik AND zelda... numbers marsulas?
I think it might be our advantage. (how do you like to use that combo in the falco matchup?)
with sheik AND zelda... numbers marsulas?
I think it might be our advantage. (how do you like to use that combo in the falco matchup?)
I actually love Sheik against Falco.......even with the chaingrab. NJZFinest will go to his grave claiming that Falco beats Sheik......I don't agree though I feel it's even. I really don't believe in the starting with Zelda and transforming to Sheik strategy that some like to employ. I like using the usual Shiek>Zelda combo.
I feel that Zelda's problem in this matchup is what usually kills her and that's her difficulty to get inside. Sheik has fantastic damage racking on Falco and the tilt lock ***** him. It's pretty much a wash though with Falco's chaingrab but getting him into KO percentages is a hell of a lot easier than with Zelda.
Your well aware of Sheiks ability to get around Falco's camping and her abilities offstage.
I feel that Sheik goes even, Zelda/Sheik is a slight advantage, and Zelda is a slight disadvantage. I can go more in-depth if anyone wants to debate with me?
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
Oh yeah. I definitely go sheik first and zelda 2nd.
Zelda's Dsmash is just TOO good of a kill move and sheik responds to falco's camping too well compared to zelda to send zelda out first and sheik 2nd
Zelda's Dsmash is just TOO good of a kill move and sheik responds to falco's camping too well compared to zelda to send zelda out first and sheik 2nd
Exactly. I've tried the Zelda then Sheik combo and you avoid the chaingrab but you trade not being able to touch Falco on certain stages.
Also, Sheiks dsmash is really good against Falco as well.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
that's because sheik's Dsmash is just as fast as Zelda's Dsmash... it just doesn't maim as well, though both punish his laggy-*** kill moves.
MrEh
Smash Hero
40-60
This is what I think the matchup is. Falco can camp you, and he wrecks up close.
This is what I think the matchup is. Falco can camp you, and he wrecks up close.