Matchup Re-discussion: Wolf

[Brawlin]

No fancy picture sorry. Contribution is greatly encouraged.

vs.

 

[¿Qué?]

Alright... This MU can go either horribly or extremely well for either Peach or Wolf.

1. Peach is totally out grounded by Wolf. His Bair can keep us from being in the air as much. His laser camping can shut you down unless you bait out a mistake.
2. Peach can combo Wolf for an eternity. She can go from Dair> Dair> Dair> Nair> off ledge> Catch ledge= total gimp. Death at like 35% too 43% max.
3. Wolfs smashes are CHEAP. CHEAP AS HELL. Dsmash is FAST. Fsmash is cheater range. Usmash is very situational, but can harshly punish our slow landings with it.
4. Peach can break Wolf's Bair camping by Ftilt camping.


Honestly, the list goes on and on, back and forth.

I say this MU is dead even 50/50.

There are only moments when it's 70/30 Peach or 70/30 Wolf.

 

[Gameswithgoodies]

d-smash is the only smash that i find hard to punish when they space it right, but f-smash is very easy to punish on shield.

 

[¿Qué?]

Lol, it sucks because his Fsmash can still punish a turnip pull.


And pray to God you don't pull a bomb-omb when he lasers you...

 

[C.S. Dinah]

I'm thinking you could DI towards wolf enough that you wont get hit by the last part of Fsmash. Depending on DI you could possibly tech. Lasers arent that much of a problem if you can PS and keep moving, you're going to have to play on land the majority of the match because of his bair.

I dont know about this but if Wofl GRs into the air he can sweetspot Side-B to spike. It happened to me before but I was using ROB when my friend did it to me. I'm sure it doesnt work on Peach.

/contributing

 

[Xyless]

I still haven't played Kain's Wolf, so I can't say for sure. It seems, however, that Wolf would have the mental advantage, because most good Wolf players have plenty of experience against other characters, but chances are, you don't have experience against a good Wolf.

I agree with PeachGuard, the MU is probably dead even.

 

[Brawlin]

Thanks guys for the feedback. I tend to believe the matchup is slightly in Wolf's favor though(45:55). It might be just what Xyless said tho about the mental advantage. I don't have very much experience fighting Wolf, but when I do, I always have some issues. But thats why I created this thread. Anyway, keep on contributing!

 

[LanceStern]

I think it is SLIGHTLY in wolfs' favor, so slight disadvantage for Peach.

Wolf's bair wall is ridiculously hard to penetrate. I used to try and wait it out or turnip my way in, but bair beats that. Ftilt sounds like a good idea.

His smashes are ridiculously cheap. his dsmash reminds me of MK but with more knockback and same speed. His jab is high priority and quick. His upsmash has a strange vaccuum prioriy. He beats us in the air (IF WE STAY TOO LONG). His fsmash has very large ange and often leads to cross ups.

He out prioritizes us

He can camp us on the ground iwth a really strong laser. And if he grabs you it is REALLY anoying because his pummel is fast and he down throws to a tech chase.

What keeps him from destroying us is he can be comboed like crazy. But I don't think PeachGuard's combo counts for DI that should not gimp them

I think key attacks in this match are our bair, jab and dash attack. Plus throw in the nair and fair.
Bair - Need this to quickly outspace him in the air. I wouldn't fight his fair or bair with it, but trade blows.
Jab - To beat his quick moves on the ground. mostly for breaking any strings or if he's in our face
Dash attack - If you want to get in on bairs or him far away, you have to use instant dash attack and push in.
GRAB - Grab him like your life depended on it at early percents.

 

[Brawlin]

Yep. Another problem is that while Peach can rack up damage on Wolf, it can be annoying to try and get in up-close. Wolf won't be spammimg bairs like Kirby either, so it can be alot harder to predict and beat it with ftilt. Wolf has plenty of other options besides trying to bair wall Peach. Thanks for ur write-up Lance. Btw guys don't forget to include stage information(cps, bans, etc.)

 

[¿Qué?]

Actually, Wolf has a hard time DIing out of the Dair. Since he has Melee hit stun(lol) We can tech chase with our Dair. All I know is that I'm sure he can't escape before the last hit, which is the one that counts for comboing him at low percentages. I've gimped really good Wolf players at 35% and took that first stock, quickly.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Peach's D Smash outprioritizes Wolf's D Smash

Lol
Although I can't remember if its from the front or back, I think it might be both


I could have sworn someone had very recently fought a really good Wolf...or am I mistaken?

 

[Xyless]

Yes, Nicole recently fought pretty much THE best Wolf, Kain, at Hot Dickings Remix. And lost.

 

[Nicole]

yes, i did.

we went back and forth, they were all just friendly matches. i had alot of fun with them, because kain doesnt camp (i dunno if he would in real tourney matches).

it gets progressively harder the harder wolf camps you.

he's EASY to gimp though. one turnip. just like falco.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Dont under estimate the power of toad in this matchup. it's great against wolf's blasters if you are in decent range, he'll think twice about using them at med ranges and if you can get him to think twice about that it makes his job to camp thaat much harder

dont abuse toad but 1 successful toad counter against his blaster will get into his head the whole match. more useful than other matches because wolf is hard but he's also predictable, so toad is perfect for that.

 

[Brawlin]

Thanks for the other contributions. Hate bumping this if no one else is going to contribute, so this will be the last time I just bump this thread

 

[¿Qué?]

I can try to get some Wolf mains in here to contribute.

There needs to be more discussion. If we can't really talk more about the actual MU, we can always go into Stages and counter picks.

 

[Brawlin]

Thanks Peachguard. And yep stages need to be discussed too.

 

[z00ted]

Um I played Choice and Jumpman like 239048230984 times at MLG Dallas, I'm doing homework right now, but I'll try and do a writeup later.

 

[tekkie]

i hate frame traps :<

 

[¿Qué?]

I hate Laser camp.

I rather it be done to me by a Falco.

 

[Brawlin]

I hate Laser camp.

I rather it be done to me by a Falco.

Edreeses said Toad works well on Wolf's lasers, but I really hate using that move.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I play SSR (SuperSaiyanRenan) too much. I'm very good at the Peach matchup. I haven't ever lost to a Peach in tourney rofl.

This matchup is Wolf's favor 55-45. Wolf will kill usually with Fairs vs Peach specifically because of float traps. Peach can Cg Wolf about 3 times and then she can Ftilt. Peach has the toughtest time in the world coming back from the edge. Her small jump makes the usual option of just drop jumping on horrid because Wolf's Dsmash reaches far offstage. Jumpshine/Bair wall camping makes Peach pretty much have very limited approach options.

I don't know how good Kain is at the Peach matchup, but it's easily my best/easiest matchup.

Toad is a very stupid option vs Laser. Wolf is gonna camp you with a laser. Not attack you with it...

I wish I got to play Nicole at Apex, but got too preoccupied MM'ing lol.

Here is what the matchup is in a nut shell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxKfJT_aJQg -Choice vs Susannayouuu round 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWwrFUy2PEQ&feature=related -Choice vs Susannayouuu round 2

 

[¿Qué?]

Yeah, but you need to get a little closer than mid range. And, I'd be sure that if Wolf knows the MU he'll space his lasers out of the distance of the spores. It's not very hard for him to keep avoiding us.

@Seagull

Actually, we can break Wolf's Bair camping with Pshield Ftilts. Shine does get irritating though. That's only if we're next to you.

if I'm not mistaken, most of the pressure Wolf receives from Peach is above him.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Yeah, but you need to get a little closer than mid range. And, I'd be sure that if Wolf knows the MU he'll space his lasers out of the distance of the spores. It's not very hard for him to keep avoiding us.

@Seagull

Actually, we can break Wolf's Bair camping with Pshield Ftilts. Shine does get irritating though. That's only if we're next to you.

if I'm not mistaken, most of the pressure Wolf receives from Peach is above him.

If you come in close, then I'd stop Bair walling and just land behind you/fair/ or something else. Bair wall is just a mindgame.

Plus, if you Powershield a rising Full hop Bair then Ftilt won't connect.

Also, Peach has a lot of trouble killing Wolf in this matchup cause he's very heavy.

Edit: What's a spore O____O?

 

[¿Qué?]

If you come in close, then I'd stop Bair walling and just land behind you/fair/ or something else. Bair wall is just a mindgame.

Plus, if you Powershield a rising Full hop Bair then Ftilt won't connect.

Also, Peach has a lot of trouble killing Wolf in this matchup cause he's very heavy.

Edit: What's a spore O____O?

But the last place Wolf wants to be is above Peach. @.@

And the spores from Toad. If you know the distance well enough, you can keep your laser pressure going without having to worry about Toad.

 

[Brawlin]

U don't necessarily want to be directly behind Peach too much. Her dsmash is fast and since it has very little knockback, it can be followed up into a dash attack or grab.

 

[Ishiey]

The videos Seagull posted basically sum it up, although I personally feel it's a bit more in Wolf's advantage but that's probably just personal preference with what the numbers mean. FH shine > double jump away ftw.

The only other thing I'd like to point out is about Peach's fair. It's slow, but outranges all of Wolf's aerials, and is usually ACd when used for shield pressure. Peach needs to mix up her options after a fair, jab loses to shield but beats everything else, grab beats shield but loses to quick counter options. Also, your bair and nair are really fast... Wolf's bair isn't very disjointed so you can try trading with those, it works sometimes... idk

 

[tekkie]

shine > peach

and i think lasers seal the deal

if peach could kill this would probably be even but i think its 45:55 for her

just punish fsmash, approach bair carefully, harass wolf offstage, and don't do punishable stuff honestly fair on shield > jab or grab mixups is a pain in the *** though

 

[¿Qué?]

shine > peach

and i think lasers seal the deal

if peach could kill this would probably be even but i think its 45:55 for her

just punish fsmash, approach bair carefully, harass wolf offstage, and don't do punishable stuff honestly fair on shield > jab or grab mixups is a pain in the *** though

Yeah. Peaches with really good grab game should be a major pain for Wolves.

 

[Brawlin]

-_- well since Toad can't reliably punish spaced lasers, they still remain a problem.

 

[¿Qué?]

-_- well since Toad can't reliably punish spaced lasers, they still remain a problem.

It's not that they can't. You just need to really corner him and turn the camping game around on him.

 

[Mikachiru]

Can you Footstool Flako outta Phantasm?

 

[¿Qué?]

Can you Footstool Flako outta Phantasm?

Wow... That's a really good question.

I'm not entirely sure, but I sort of doubt it. Most likely at the end of it, since his feet arn't on the ground. And if you FF fast enough, you can go into a Bair lock.

Btw I Bair locked someone in friendlies. I couldn't exactly remember who, but it made me feel so alive.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I can try to get some Wolf mains in here to contribute.

Can't let you do that PeachGuard!

I play SSR (SuperSaiyanRenan) too much. I'm very good at the Peach matchup. I haven't ever lost to a Peach in tourney rofl.

Don't get too cocky Seagull Man!

The videos Seagull posted basically sum it up, although I personally feel it's a bit more in Wolf's advantage but that's probably just personal preference with what the numbers mean

What the heck?

Here is what the matchup is in a nut shell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxKfJT_aJQg -Choice vs Susannayouuu round 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWwrFUy2PEQ&feature=related -Choice vs Susannayouuu round 2

You're good...but I'm better!

shine > peach

and i think lasers seal the deal

No way! I don't believe it!

if peach could kill this would probably be even but i think its 45:55 for her

I...can't...lose!

Spoiler

Will come up with something more constructive later

 

[Xyless]

I hate Wolf. So hard to draw, he's all that's left and I rage every time I try to draw his head badly.

 

[Brawlin]

I doubt you could footstool Falco out of that shiz, but dudes stay on topic plz -_- lol

 

[wwwilliam0024]

This MU is basically even, but believe me, Wolfs are annoying, I suggest patience and a good camping/spacing. And once he makes a mistake, go directly for the combos, because it will be hard to catch him, dont underestimate wolf. :S