Matchup Re-Discussion: Olimar

[Fino]

Did I read correctly that a FF'd Fair by Pikachu will go through Oli's Up Smash ( non yellow ) ?
EDIT: Someone may have to correct me but doesn't Olimar have an increased chance to get certain colors of Pikmin on certain stages? If so, what stages increase the % he plucks a yellow?

All mechanical terrain + metriod themed stages

Rainbow Cruise IIRC.

I love playing RC... expecially on pikachu... those 60% kill and inability to get gimped is just so sexy :D

Jungle Japes works well against olimar... works for Ike mains

Olimar is just going to camp that right platform so hard... also another stage where olimar doesn't get gimped. If he stays on the right side he can get out easily and safely.

@Fino/Draco/other Olis: What would you say Olimar's worst stage is?

Something like... pokemon stadium 2... lol. I honestly don't know what to tell you guys for a CP against oli. pika seems to do well on delfino/sv form experience... but that just may be my lack of ability to play there, not oli in general. Delfino has a plethora of PPA (pikmin pluck advantage). Some parts give more purples, some give reds/yellows, some give more blues.... nothing white on that stage though. lol.
Aslo, just because olimar has a high PPA of yellow on a stage doesn't exactly mean he'll get tons of yellows, it's all chance. The only difference is that the chance of getting them increases just a bit. It's still entirely possible to pull out red,blue,purple,blue,white,blue on frigate ^^;


~Fino

 

[Ussi]

Olimar is just going to camp that right platform so hard... also another stage where olimar doesn't get gimped. If he stays on the right side he can get out easily and safely.

thing about not getting gimped is if you don't have any blue pikmin how are you gonna get out of the water.

And there are ways of getting you outta the corner.. its not like Olimar shuts down Pikachu's approach

 

[Fino]

thing about not getting gimped is if you don't have any blue pikmin how are you gonna get out of the water.

And there are ways of getting you outta the corner.. its not like Olimar shuts down Pikachu's approach

olimar doesn't need a tether to recover on japes... just jump + the boost from upB is more than enough to get on stage. Also if olimar has no pikmin he can sweetspot the ledge from about the same distance as he could with 3 pikmin.

Also, tell me. Olimar is standing on the right platform on japes throwing pikmin. What are you going to do? (Note: if the olimar feels threatened, he will go to the ledge and uair through the platform - vertical hitbox on oli's uair is slightly greater than the distance between the two platforms on BF). It's pretty gay, but we don't mind running the clock out if you pick japes ._.

Also, I thought japes is a terrible pikachu stage, lol.


~Fino

 

[Ussi]

olimar doesn't need a tether to recover on japes... just jump + the boost from upB is more than enough to get on stage. Also if olimar has no pikmin he can sweetspot the ledge from about the same distance as he could with 3 pikmin.

Also, tell me. Olimar is standing on the right platform on japes throwing pikmin. What are you going to do? (Note: if the olimar feels threatened, he will go to the ledge and uair through the platform - vertical hitbox on oli's uair is slightly greater than the distance between the two platforms on BF). It's pretty gay, but we don't mind running the clock out if you pick japes ._.

Also, I thought japes is a terrible pikachu stage, lol.


~Fino

Japes is just terrible for those who don't know how to use it. Panicked Olimars (and anyone else) probably wouldn't throw their only blue pikmin away if they fell in the water (let only jump out the right time) BUT that doesn't apply in MUs

 

[Fino]

Japes is just terrible for those who don't know how to use it. Panicked Olimars (and anyone else) probably wouldn't throw their only blue pikmin away if they fell in the water (let only jump out the right time) BUT that doesn't apply in MUs

I think I missed the part where you explained what pikachu can do. Or the relevant part of MU discussion.


~Fino

 

[DUB]

is Halberd a mechanical stage? If olimar has a yellow bonus on Halberd I would say that is his most favorable stage in the matchup.

 

[King~]

dieing at 80 is stupid.........

 

[KayLo!]

@Ussi: No offense, but you haven't played the game in how long? Much less competitively.

Japes is not a good Pikachu stage (ceiling's too high), and Fino is right: if Olimar is camping on the righthand platform, there's really not anything Pikachu can do to get close. The best you can do is go for the ledge of the platform and abuse ledgecamping IFs until he leaves an opening for you to get up on there with him.

It would also be a ***** to kill there. Thunder and usmash become almost useless on Japes for KOs, and with Olimar's grab range, good luck getting an fsmash on him. Nair would be our only viable option, and as fast as it is, it's pretty predictable when the opponent knows you're trying to kill -- especially if our other kill options are ***** out.

There's also the fact that Japes isn't legal in a lot of areas, so relying on it as a CP doesn't work for half the community, lol.

I think I'd take Olimar to PS1, Delfino, or just go with a safe neutral like Smashville or Battlefield. After hearing what the Olis've had to say, I'm sensing that there's not a stage where we'll do considerably better simply because of stage advantage.

 

[Ussi]

@Ussi: No offense, but you haven't played the game in how long? Much less competitively.

This is exactly why I couldn't say anything to fino when he asked "what can Pikachu do"

I dunno was throwing something out there, but no good

 

[Roller]

@Ussi: No offense, but you haven't played the game in how long?

RIPS on Ussi. lol

But as insightful a player as you are (helped me out quite a bit back in the day) I do have to agree with KayLo and Fino here. Sorry bud =/

 

[PUNK9]

Approaching Olimar:

I personally, Ether do one of the following

1. Rush him, I igrnore the percent meter, and just rush him.
2. Just jump around doing U-air nad F-air, And wait him him to attack me, then I punish.
Now...

Everyone give me there ways of approching Oli.


Ready....So.....BEGAIN!!

 

[DUB]

3) Land behind him with an air dodge. Good way to get easy grabs on Olimar with any character.

 

[Fino]

I think I'd take Olimar to PS1, Delfino, or just go with a safe neutral like Smashville or Battlefield. After hearing what the Olis've had to say, I'm sensing that there's not a stage where we'll do considerably better simply because of stage advantage.

Yeah, be careful with delfino though. There are lots of areas that boost yellows and purples. I say, what ever you feel most comfortable on.

1. Rush him, I igrnore the percent meter, and just rush him.
2. Just jump around doing U-air nad F-air, And wait him him to attack me, then I punish.

1. Not even metaknight can rush olimar... what makes you think pikachu can? O.o
2. Olimar plays the same way... seems like an infinite loop argument. Olimar was built to play off of other people and punish mistakes. =/ If no one is approaching... oli is just going to camp

3) Land behind him with an air dodge. Good way to get easy grabs on Olimar with any character.

Land... behind... olimar... whose pivot grab is like 1/4 FD... good idea or great idea? I could see it working once or twice... but it's not a great approach.
You need to you high priority moves (since olimar has none). Approaching with fair works well so long as he's not pivot grab happy. If he's doing that, throw in some tshocks. Skull bash is also a reliable approach X: plz
Olimar also can't punish the landing hitbox of dair well... might be a personal problem of mine, but it always ****s me up. When he jumps in the air to throw pikmin, and you send out a tshock that connects... GO GO GO - do something to cap on that.


~Fino

 

[PUNK9]

Yeah, be careful with delfino though. There are lots of areas that boost yellows and purples. I say, what ever you feel most comfortable on.


1. Not even metaknight can rush olimar... what makes you think pikachu can? O.o
2. Olimar plays the same way... seems like an infinite loop argument. Olimar was built to play off of other people and punish mistakes. =/ If no one is approaching... oli is just going to camp

Land... behind... olimar... whose pivot grab is like 1/4 FD... good idea or great idea? I could see it working once or twice... but it's not a great approach.
You need to you high priority moves (since olimar has none). Approaching with fair works well so long as he's not pivot grab happy. If he's doing that, throw in some tshocks. Skull bash is also a reliable approach X: plz
Olimar also can't punish the landing hitbox of dair well... might be a personal problem of mine, but it always ****s me up. When he jumps in the air to throw pikmin, and you send out a tshock that connects... GO GO GO - do something to cap on that.


~Fino

So Fino, How would yo suggest approaching Oli?
Since Oli can out camp Pikachu.
And we can't rush him.

So what do you doo?

Like F-air and D-air have great Priority, But honestly you can only really use F-air for approaching, (In my option) Like D-air is good, Like SH d-air. but yeah,

How would you suggest approaching him?

 

[KayLo!]

The only thing I really disagree on is Skull Bash. It'll get you grabbed (or pretty much anything Oli wants to throw out from his shield) REAL quick. The cooldown on it is insane.

 

[linkisthebest123]

Ive played a few different olis, and what i always like to do, if they are running away/ trying to space you with different attacks is constantly do short/full hopped nairs, because even halfway through the nair (for me it seems) all the olis pikmin clank with it. and the nair keeps going. Furthermore, a short hopped dair will hit through the pikmin and the lingering hitbox will then hit olimar. Unless its yellow. I havent had A TON of experience with olis, but i always like getting rid of most of there pikmin and pressuring them constantly with nairs and dairs. not really caring if it makes the moves stale, im just trying to get them off stage with little to no pikmin. almost always ending up as a kill.

Like i said, i dont have a ton of experience with oli's and this could just be on the ones i have played, but its worked for me for a bit. so think about it, but dont take it to heart.

p.s. this is one matchup where i hardly ever use t jolts, even if you fully hop them, the olimar i play can usually punish pretty easily, especially with yellows. i t jolt once every 20 seconds on average. but thats about it.

 

[Fino]

The only thing I really disagree on is Skull Bash. It'll get you grabbed (or pretty much anything Oli wants to throw out from his shield) REAL quick. The cooldown on it is insane.

Skull bash is amazing... if I go to pound 4 I'll tell you how to skull bash against olimar before our MM X: lulz

Stuff

^^Sounds legit to me
Also I forgot the typical olimar advise: abuse his blind spot (45 degree angle). Combine this with the fact olimar has no priority... just get in there and give him the **** ._.


~Fino

EDIT: Don't be afraid of yellow pikmin... they're your friend

 

[KayLo!]

All right, since we've gotten a lot of good info, I'll start writing the OP sometime this week.

Thanks, guys! Feel free to keep discussing. =D

 

[Roller]

Skull bash is amazing... if I go to pound 4 I'll tell you how to skull bash against olimar before our MM X: lulz

Fino. We have not spoken in... Forever? These skullbashing tips. I would like to hear them. Preaze?

 

[Fino]

Fino. We have not spoken in... Forever? These skullbashing tips. I would like to hear them. Preaze?

Here's what you do.... try to side B more than olimar... and good things will happen :D
Also, dunno how many of you caught the picture before I had to remove it.... but there was definitely a sleezy pikmin in my last post up thar.


~Fino

 

[DtJ Hilt]

awhh i missed the discussion
I'll go through it a bit and see if there's anything major I should point out, but until then I went ahead and did a word search for "japes" since it seems to always be brought up when other boards discuss us.

Fino already covered it but I want to say it anyways :3 Contrary to popular belief, Japes is not a bad Olimar stage. Not just because of the right platform, but for the fact that, well, think about it. What are Olimar's two biggest weaknesses. His two biggest flaws? Low priority, and his recovery. So, how do you take advantage of that when facing him? Get him to the ledge, where he can't run away and throw out a pivot grab or space an attack because your attacks are without a doubt faster and have more priority, and if we attempt to retreat, we're in a worse position as we're off stage. On Japes? If you back us against a lege, oh look. There's a whole new stage behind us. Back us against that one too? Grabbing the ledge gives us more options than normal ledges do, as we're able to either attack from under it (grabbing the ledge without a tether afterwards), grab the other ledge on the other side of that platform, grab the ledge of the middle platform, or (as long as we're on the right side) jump in the water and reset the situation. Water is not bad for Olimar. People think it is, as it kills off pikmin, but I'd much rather have the water save us and sacrifice pikmin, than Olimar die, when we get gimped. Not to mention, this water actually gets us away from our opponent if we land in it. It's great.

Delfino is my other favorite stage. Not just because of the pluck percentages (sorry fino i dont think "PPA" is gonna catch on ), but because of the layout of each of the sections. HOWEVER this is not completely the case in this matchup. As much as I love Delfino, I will say that if you're solid enough on it, it's a viable stage for you in the matchup. Thunder Jolt will make things extremely awkward on this stage for us, with the awkward shapes of the sections, which is usually what we would take advantage of in the matchup, and pikachu can abuse the close blast zones as well as we can in the walk off sections. I don't think it's your best CP, but definitely one of them. Your main problem against us here is the increase in purples that are so common, being in two sections and the transportation platform <3

Brinstar may not be a bad choice against us as well, regardless of the yellow increase, and maybe frigate but I really don't know about that :/ Probably not, for frigate in this matchup, pikachu recovering on the right side against Olimar would be terrible. PS2 is definitely by far our worst stage. If it's legal, take us there. RC would be second worst in this matchup, Fino's just really good there lol. Pikachu's solid enough on this stage and can take advantage of the terrain well enough to make things troublesome for us. Just watch out on the section with the low ceiling.

Also to answer the question earlier about what stages increase yellows, here's a list of the ones that are legal:

-Lylat Cruise
-Brinstar
-Norfair
-Frigate Orpheon (purples as well)
-Pokemon Stadium (metal on the rock phase increases yellows/purples, shallow water in water and grass phase increase yellow, as well as a big inrease to blues)
-Delfino (Like PS1, shallow water gives an increase to yellow and a big increase to blues; beach phases give red, yellow, and purple increases)

Halberd does not give an increase in any pikmin, regardless of it being a ship like Lylat and Corneria. However, I normally wouldn't take Olimar to halberd >.>

kay i'll go through this more later, just wanted to add my opinion on the stages :D

 

[KayLo!]

RC would be second worst in this matchup, Fino's just really good there lol.

Really? I've seen Dotcom play there, and he does fine.

I guess it's just player preference..... the low ceiling/walk-offs seem to help Oli considerably more than they help Pika. And good Olimars stopped getting stage-gimped there a while ago.

My Oli experience is a bit outdated, though, so meh.

Thanks for the input, Hilt, it's really helpful.

 

[Fino]

Really? I've seen Dotcom play there, and he does fine.

I guess it's just player preference..... the low ceiling/walk-offs seem to help Oli considerably more than they help Pika. And good Olimars stopped getting stage-gimped there a while ago.

My Oli experience is a bit outdated, though, so meh.

Thanks for the input, Hilt, it's really helpful.

Don't forget RC also happens to be the EC rising olimar star Icylight's favorite stage too X:
Two top olimars.... loving a certain stage.... can't be coincidence ;D


~Fino

 

[Noa.]

I find RC fine. I don't think it'd be a bad stage for Oli in the Pika matchup. Not at all.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

haha yeah you guys are probably right. I'm not saying Fino's the only good one there (Icy crusades it a lot as well), and I don't mind the stage, tbh. I just can't think of many stages that would be better for you here XD

 

[~Radiance~]

idk, personaly when i play olimar, i try to stay off the ground when i get close then drop in, just because i dont want to eat that tether grab.

 

[Pikabunz]

This character is so dumb. How do I beat him? D:

 

[Ussi]

abuse how he has no grab armor and grab him a lot. Keep him in the air and juggle him. Grab him on his way down.. Uthrow is a favorite to use to keep him in the air. Use platforms to help pressure and juggle.

olimar's game is the ground! Just get him OFF the ground..

Usmash OoS is a ***** .-.

 

[KayLo!]

Platforms are okay, but it depends on how they're set up. Stages like SV or RC seem to be okay platform-wise, but ones he can camp under like on BF/YI make approaching him (which you'll likely have to do) an absolute nightmare -- virtually impossible, really.

It's too bad he gets the more annoying pikmin on Delfino and Frigate..... Frigate would be a good CP otherwise imo. Personally, I don't mind the MU that much on Delfino, but a lot of people hate his purple (and yellow?) ratio there. I'm just a big fan of Delfino in general. <3

 

[Roller]

F-tilt. I saw Miquel say to do it. It works. It is a tough mu though, I'd hate it if I didn't have ICs for it.

 

[Ussi]

i'd probably hate it if they knew how to camp Ike..

Ledge plank if you have too :0

 

[Pikabunz]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=291409

^ Lots of good info on Olimar's plucking. Didn't know terrain affected his pluck speed. :o

Some things worth pointing out:
-Lylat, Frigate, and Norfair all have 37.7% yellow and 15.1% purple
-Brinstar gives 37.7% yellow and 15.1% purple on the top platform and 46.3% blue on the left and right platforms.
-Delphino has 22.2% purple on the main platform, 35.7% yellow and red on sand, and 67.8% blue in water.
-3rd part of Castle Siege gives Olimar 40% pluck speed.