Matchup Re-Discussion: Ike

[PZ]

i play arturo randomly. he seems like a gud ike. di through the jab so you are behind him and sheild if he's going to try to get this said nair. before the nair comes out I usually go make a sandwich. okay, nair is out now. dammit i didn't get a drink. okay, so now i have a sandwich and my drink and nair is almost done. it's almost over, oh man kk slider is playing tonight. there's the cooldown. okay cool, do any move.

You really need to get serious and THINK!

 

[KayLo!]

@isaccard: Between nair's shield push and low cooldown, you can't really say "ok cool, do any move." It only has a -9 advantage on shield, so if you blindly rush in to try to punish, you're most likely going to eat a jab to the face. It's a pretty safe zoning tool for him.

Your best bet is to either pshield the nair or pshield the jab that's likely to come after it if you run in.

As for jolts, his jab cancels them easily, and it's not hard to time at all. But you're right..... it's possible to play extremely gay and just run around him camping all day.

 

[gamesuxcard]

have you guys tried thundering i like thunder

 

[KayLo!]

I can't tell if you're being serious or trolling, so to be on the safe (and forgiving......) side:

When you post MU opinions, please back up what you say. It's really irritating when people come in and post "do such-and-such" and leave it at that.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Based on my rather meager experience against one Pikachu player who I can beat (As sad as it is, I've never played against K Prime despite living in the same city): It's around even like everyone is saying.

When he started spamming T.Jolt, I just slowly walked forward and shielded the whole time. He his last T.Jolt was close enough, I'd jab, clank with it, and then jab again and hit him. Once Ike is starting to close the distance, quit the spam.

He liked to use Fair against my shield once I got in close enough, land and go right into Dsmash. Seemed to work well against me, but my reaction time is terrible. Don't know how other Ikes would handle it. *shrugs*

When using QA to get back on stage, you might want to be careful if the Ike is charging Eruption. Timed (predicted really) right, and it can hit you before you can grab the ledge, and the SAFs can mess you up if it's just the wrong stage, and you tried to land right behind him for some odd reason.

I also know most Pikachu's don't do this but: don't use Skull Bash to recover and land accidently onstage. It's Counter Food. :D

Thunder when I'm trying to recover is a serious pain. Most likely, its going to hit me, the only question is if it will hit during Aether's SAFs or not. T.Jolt spamming also works for free damage, but probably won't gimp Ike.

Try to not go against Ike in the air. Sword beats rat.

Dsmash is fairly good against Ike near the stage edge. Even if Ike DI's out of it, there is the chance I'll end up DIing off stage. Don't rely on it, but it's there.

 

[gamesuxcard]

You really need to get serious and THINK!

This is so close to being sig worthy..

 

[PikaPika!]

so im gonna go ahead and put the Pikachu vs San MU at about 70:30

 

[KayLo!]

so im gonna go ahead and put the Pikachu vs San MU at about 70:30

I think you wrote that backwards...... lol.



One day you'll win!

 

[PikaPika!]

I think you wrote that backwards...... lol.



One day you'll win!

I did and i meant to write Ike instead of san, although san uses ike and ike is trash but san is amazing with ike so that confuses me

 

[Hael Phael]

i would put the MU at 65:35 pikachu because if cgs are performed correctly, aerials are timed right, bad quick attacks are avoided, and good jolts are fired off, along with proper edge guarding/gimping ike doesnt have a lot of options here

 

[Ussi]

I would put the MU in 65:35 Ike because if fair and nair are preformed correctly, jabs are timed right, laggy moves are avoided, and good bairs are fired off, along with proper powershielding, Pikachu doesn't have a lot of options here

EDIT: shi- trolling can get you infractions o_O

Well in seriousness: Pikachu lacks range to effective approach Ike and Ike's jab really hurts. But once Pikachu gets past it and combos Ike its works out evenly.

 

[The Truth!]

Shouldnt crawling and spaced dtilts be able to get you around nair and jab?

 

[KayLo!]

Jab maybe, but his nair has transcendent priority since it's an aerial..... and trading hits with it (which probably won't happen since he'll be in the air + his sword is longer than our tail) is bad for us.

Not sure if you can duck under the farther ranges of his jab and swipe his feet with dtilt.

 

[Ussi]

Pikachu can't duck under jab 1

EDIT: well, Pikachu ducking avoids like the very tip of jab

 

[Zeroxius]

My friend Immanuel plays Ike. I have gotten him up near the top left and top right regions of the screen right next to the blastline. I predict where he will use recovery tactics while hanging on the edge.

-If he uses side B before he is about level with the stage, he goes into special fall which is easily punished.
-If he uses side B in an attempt to grab the edge, I jump off and air dodge into the strike, dooming him to die.
-If I think he will aether to grab the edge, I drop directly downwards before he is near the edge, because if he doesn't use his side B and he is a certain length from the stage, I know he will aether. After dropping, I wait for the "AETHER" or "YAAAAH" and QA just as he comes down, and I get a good gimp.
-If he uses Aether and lands on the stage, I just ledge attack and he goes right back off, and I attempt to get a few hits in again to try to push him back off so I can resume gimping.

Not much, but it's just an edgeguarding formula I have put together subconsciously from fighting him a couple times.

Also, I just found out today that Ike's down tilt spikes when you are hanging on the edge. *Facepalms*

 

[Ussi]

Stealing the sweetspot from Ike works if he doesn't land on the stage. When he does land on the stage he's open to a ledge hop fair > w/e, but its better than dying for Ike. I don't know if Pikachu can QA through the apex of Ike's aether but probably it will collide at worse.

don't hang on the edge too long rofl, i dunno how many times i did that to people who forget about it

 

[PZ]

Its 50-50 yall stop discussing. Of course since pikachu have a tough time approaching him and pika's grab range is garbage so cg isnt a really good option but juggling still works. Also pikachu has mobility and thunder stops ike's recovery easy. Fthrow and dthrow combos should be used. Through all this discussion i see 45-55 ike's favor.

 

[Ussi]

thunder has strict timing, Ike can try to SA through thunder.

Pikachu's air mobility is actually less than Ike's. (unnoticable though)

On a side note, frame wise you can punish Ike's fair with quick attack OoS.

 

[PZ]

thunder has strict timing, Ike can try to SA through thunder.

Pikachu's air mobility is actually less than Ike's. (unnoticable though)

On a side note, frame wise you can punish Ike's fair with quick attack OoS.

Wasnt talking about air mobility and pikas air mobility sucks. I only said pika has better mobility cuz of qac.

 

[Ussi]

Ike has huge hitboxes to hit Pikachu out of QAC though

 

[PZ]

Ike has huge hitboxes to hit Pikachu out of QAC though

Yea for qac beginners. Learn to qac around attacks<.<.

 

[*Cam*]

Yea for qac beginners. Learn to qac around attacks<.<.

All it takes is one mistake though.

 

[KayLo!]

QAC isn't very helpful in this MU, imo. Too easy for Ike to jab or swing his sword, and the risk isn't worth the reward.

Pshielding is a much better option if you're trying to get inside him.

 

[*Cam*]

QAC isn't very helpful in this MU, imo. Too easy for Ike to jab or swing his sword, and the risk isn't worth the reward.

Pshielding is a much better option if you're trying to get inside him.

This. Tjolting it also helpful as long as you aren't too close to him when you use it. Otherwise he could pshield the tjolt and punish with jab. Or he could just jump over the tjolt and nair/fair.

 

[Pikabunz]

Hope this helps in some way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfq2jo8F66I

Gonna make another vid for Ike later.

Edit: And here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOasCO0XNVI

 

[Ussi]

jab you have to be expecting it. Also, there is timing mix up as well as canceling the 1st jab into a grab.

as for gimping aether, that CPU Ike wasn't recovering low enough.

 

[Pikabunz]

I don't think it really matters how low the Ike recovers. A lot of those would still work.

 

[Ussi]

How low Ike recovers does matter in how much more Pikachu has to go down.

Ike can land onstage for QAC ledge hog, though still taking some damage, but still land on stage.

 

[Pikabunz]

That's not a problem for Pika. He can go as low as he wants and still recover. And making Ike land on stage is good.

 

[Ussi]

Ike can FF faster than Pika can keep up on reaction

IMO the only legit ones are QAC from stage to ledge and QA to ledge offstage.

 

[Pikabunz]

So what if Ike can FF faster than Pikachu. It's not gonna help him not get hit out of his UpB.


Edit: Made another vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW7bkOoxPB4

 

[The Truth!]

I like how ledge invincibility can be used to just outright attack him, lol. Also Pika falls faster than Ike mostly. Except for their normal terminal speeds.