Matchup discussion: Falco

[Solharath]

I'm not sure what to do in this specific instance, myself, as I've always chosen a secondary over having to play through all of Falco's strengths that completely invalidate my normal strategy. That said, the few times I've gone toe to toe with a Falco have led to a couple things that have been mentioned already - namely the DI when you get grabbed.

Honestly I feel Mario has just bad matchups with characters that are a bit too grabby because of our lack of range outside of two normal attacks(Specials notwithstanding). This isn't a matchup where we have much going for us- a lot of what we seem to be talking about as far as things we have over Falco are situational at best. Forcing a Falco offstage where he's in a bad position implies you had enough control over the match to get him out there in the first place. That's not something I usually see from a Mario, but then again, I don't see the matchup that often.

 

[-DR3W-]

Cape ****.

Good luck.

 

[TMario]

Maybe it's just the local Falco I'm playing, but I found empty SH's work awesome to get inside. Usually, I'll throw Fireballs till he starts shining em back. Once I've incepted "Shine" in his mind, he'll shine a SH airdodge and Im usually in before he pulls the shine back.

However, Im still accepting ideas for pulling off the kill moves.

 

[steep]

Jab mixups help with landing kill moves on Falco. Jab Jab Usmash can help a little. It's overall difficult to land kill moves on a smart Falco anyway but you just have to be quick on your feet and very intelligent in how you mix things up.

 

[Matador]

There's no clear-cut way to do it since his jab is so damn good. Best to keep the kill moves that are easier to land fresh. Utilt, Bthrow, Dsmash...keep it all fresh.

Landing Usmash and Fsmash vs a high level Falco will be a chore...he's got a pretty decent advantage in close and mid-range.

 

[steep]

I played Ryker's Falco yesterday at Vengeance and had close games but lost 2-0. Then 2-stocked Kirikou Rung's Falco the very next set. I think we should be using ftilt more in this MU. It is decent when spaced well and is good for getting Falco offstage, which is where we want him because of our ability to gimp him. Like Matador said, fsmash and usmash are hard to land, and the best way to use usmash is at low % to finish off utilt and uair strings IMO. Fsmash can be used to punish grabby falcos if you can bait the grab by walking away then turn around fsmash when they reach for you. Not really super reliable but it could be good for a stock after just losing one of yours when they want that low % grab.

EDIT: Again I want to reiterate that we should camp falco until we are above CG %. It's not worth giving them momentum. Also learn to SDI that spike!!! And then learn to tech it once you SDI it back onto the stage!!! It is very helpful. You can set up low % gimps by SDI'ing back and teching in place then ftilt -> cape his side b. Works pretty well IMO.

 

[GTZ]

nice idea. I have faced many a falco and never tried that angle. I usually don't strategize very often when I'm playing my Mario I go on instinct.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Oi guys, I'll post my Opinion in this Mu when i get home from school.

I main Falco/ Dk/ Marth and Plan on adding Mario to that list.. and he'll stay there.

I've played this Mu from both ends.. and if the Falco has no idea what to expect/ do.. it's pretty painful for him.

Anyway, I'm off to school now. My thoughts will be edited into this post when I get home.

 

[steep]

I've played this Mu from both ends.. and if the Falco has no idea what to expect/ do AND doesn't know how to play this game very well... it's pretty painful for him.

Fixed for you.

Because if you are playing a really good Falco who doesn't know the MU very well he will probably still be able to stomp a Mario of equal skill level. Falcos jab alone shuts down pretty much all of our CQC game. It's only if you are playing someone who doesn't know how to play Falco that you will whoop them with Mario.

 

[1PokeMastr]

>

If you're both of the same level, And the Mario knows the Falco match up. While the Falco doesn't know the odds and ends of the Mario Mu beyond "CG, Beware of cape and Fludd" he will take a toll that isn't pleasant. I didn't say that you will win the match, I only said he'll take a toll because of it.

- B-Throw ( 12% ) is great to rack damage, same as F-Throw ( 9% ) but only when B-Throw is too stale, your U-Throw has a higher Knockback Scaling than B-Throw. So don't give a hoot about killing with B-Throw when you can toss Falco away for 12/ 9% and lead to a possible gimp from cape and Fludd. The more damage you can get in, the better, Mario and Falco both work on chip damage. So, the more damage you can get in, the better.

The only safe distance Falco can laser from is farther away from your shield dash + standing grab range, so, if he's lasering within that distance, time it so when he jumps, you can dash in and punish. And if you're looking to Bait + Punish a Phantasm.. Dair/ Nair have worked wonders for me.
If you hit with a sour spot Nair. You get a free down smash/ grab/ almost anything to be honest.

If the stages Brinstar/ RC are legal, take him there, I know Mario does well there, and Falco, not so much.
- Mario can be CG'd 7 times from 0%, ending at 48% + A follow up. Which is guaranteed. You can not Up B or do anything to get out before then. However, Mash Up B anyway just in case they mess up, and if you're going to get spiked out of it. SDi up and Toward the stage and tech if you need to.

If you're going to fire ball camp him, always do a full hop fire ball at a safe distance away. The safest distance is just outside of his Shield Dash + Standing Grab range. You can punish him if he attempts to use reflector. Platforms aid you in this Mu more than they aid Falco. You can Up B out of Falco's Jab 1 -> Grab. Jab two is possible, But harder.

If you can predict a phantasm, cape away.

Of course, you already know all of this. But. Damage is everything.

 

[vato_break]

fireball camping falco does not work. jab destroys mario and cG spike will be your death if you are read offstage. this matchup is stupid -_-

 

[TMario]

I'll agree this matchup is balls, but the jab isn't as bad as I first thought. I used to DI behind like that youtube vid showed, but better falcos seem to know better. After that stopped working, I'll DI up on both joystick and C-stick. Going up on both will quickly end up in a Uair, interrupting the jab and Im usually close enough to follow with a jab or dtilt or something. (I know, I know, dtilt right? I'm just experimenting with it right now, I'll let you know if I find something.)

 

[Coolwhip]

I'm gonna post a new matchup thread pretty soon. (Tomorrow?)
This character is gonna be "Debatable" for awhile imo.

 

[Matador]

Everyone agrees that it's bad for Mario.

Only debatable part is how to go about increasing your chances of victory in the match-up. The do's and don'ts, if you will.

 

[Solharath]

Jab. Jab a lot. It clashes with his jab and reverts you and Falco back to neutral positions, where Falco can't get you without dashing and lasers are impractical. Also good full hop fireball range, depending which direction you decide to float Mario in. Ftilt is good for poking into Falco's range, but it's one of those weird times where you have to be wary about Falco's reflector, stupidly enough. If he gets you, he can double back to prime laser range.

Don't get grabbed. Save your double jump if you do. Try to Up-B out of chaingrab. All that good stuff.

 

[SKidd]

I'm going Marth vs. Falco from now on, keep getting wrecked

 

[Coolwhip]

I'm going Marth vs. Falco from now on, keep getting wrecked

Where have you've been?

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Oh my god it's SKidd.

That guy is damn cool.

 

[Matador]

I'm going Marth vs. Falco from now on, keep getting wrecked

I randomly saw you on stream Saturday. Versus a Peach, I think.

 

[Sleek Media]

Everyone agrees that it's bad for Mario.

Only debatable part is how to go about increasing your chances of victory in the match-up. The do's and don'ts, if you will.

Still say it's unwinnable. He shuts us down any time he isn't offstage. Anyway...

DO:
- camp until you're out of chaingrab %
- nair his *** offstage. FLUDD is good too sometimes
- bait out his stupid laser usmash combo, because Falco will ALWAYS go for it given the chance
- duck lasers
- throw fairs out of spite

DON'T:
- get your hopes up
- try to air dodge his uair (he'll just whip out another as you come out of the air dodge)
- roll
- bother to reflect the lasers unless you're SURE you're out of range from anything but lasers
- consider attacking if he's standing there on the ground with a full shield

 

[TMario]

So, I found it IS possible to Fair Falco's side B. Idk if it's much of a tip, but if you manage that spike, damn does Mario look good.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

I am just gonna say power shield every laser like Vex

 

[The Master of Mario]

-3.

Mario's worst non-MK matchup. And nobody better question me.

This matchup isn't hard DACUS beats most of his moves so basically what you do is crouch->DACUS to approach DACUS beats Illusion it beats f-smash it beats side special it dodges blaster it beats punches. You still have shield can DI out of his grab combos and if he starts to shield you have Pivot Grab and Walking Grab out of B-air Stutter. Crouch->B-air which gets past every thing when you fastfall into a crouch. You want to keep Falco on his toes thinking is he going to Up-smash me out of crouch or Pivot Grab me. Is he going to Blind U-air me or is he going to B-air me. All of this is possible due to setup with crouches. D-air can be used on Full Jumps if you fast fall. D-throw->F-air->D-throw works just like his D-air when you input at the earliest possible frame frame 0. SH D-air-N-air->Grab is especially useful at close range if they tend to spotdodge/gaurd. Up-tilt is only good if they don't smash DI. Up-smash as i said before is key. Up-special grabs and the occasional F-smash on a laggy move can provide additional damage. Cape is helpful to protect you in the air when FAR away from falco.