Matchup Discussion #14 - Toon Link

[SN Viper]

So what i have got from reading this thread so far is that

we want to be camping with lazors at a long distance. Do we out camp tink?

How many grabs from the cg do we get and what is the most effective way to cg tink.
if we get a grab how well can we pillar tink.

Mix ups from jab cancel how safe are they should we just hit the full jab combo. How to go about jabing tink.

What % can fresh up smash and bair kill tink at seeing as there are our best kill options.

I read that catching with z is the best way to go about dealing with tinks bombs but i feel that nair is a good option as well. Thoughts on this

I would like to hear from Keitaro on this mu seeing as he gets games with jash often

FGCU Viper

 

[Slain Avenger]

So what i have got from reading this thread so far is that

we want to be camping with lazors at a long distance. Do we out camp tink?

How many grabs from the cg do we get and what is the most effective way to cg tink.
if we get a grab how well can we pillar tink.

Mix ups from jab cancel how safe are they should we just hit the full jab combo. How to go about jabing tink.

What % can fresh up smash and bair kill tink at seeing as there are our best kill options.

I read that catching with z is the best way to go about dealing with tinks bombs but i feel that nair is a good option as well. Thoughts on this

I would like to hear from Keitaro on this mu seeing as he gets games with jash often

How often you should be camping depends on stage, flat stages are beast but some stages like lylat and brinstar make his camping game much more superior


Dash grabs all the way, and TLink is really easy to tech chase, hard to 0-death.

Most mix ups are safe. Full Jab combo also works well. I usually just Full Jab -> F tilt or Full Jab -> Reflector. Sometimes Jab Jab grab too, I just like to keep it fresh but I think it all works.

I've gotten upsmash kills in 125~% when it's fresh but I'd say don't get confident on upsmash kills until after 135%. Bair, it really depends.

I use z catching cause I used to play diddy, but Nair catching also works a lot. I find myself nair catching a lot of bombs when I've got the advantage and TL is camping me.

 

[-DR3W-]

We can't drag threads out like this guys. It's been like 15 days. Cmon, let's step it up.

And if you're gonna pull the "we're-not-done-yet" card, we can do two at once. I'm sure we're capable of moving on and adding to this thread as needed.

 

[SN Viper]

There is so little discussion on this MU. We had one major contributer.

FGCU Viper​

​

 

[Slain Avenger]

I'm up for covering a new MU, how bout Lucario or something?

 

[M@v]

See this is what i hate. when scrubs talk lik they good. i felt bad for u so i let u win one match out of our set. I dsmashed u at 0 on delfino and u died. get better

I knew you'd namesearch that<3

And so much pent-up rage lol.


Still <3 you KT, no homo.


But in all seriousness, I feel its anywhere from 50-50 to 60-40 falco. As others mentioned its a big momentum-based MU.

 

[G-Dub]

for the record, tink dies at 125 from a fresh usmash and about 150 to 200 (depending on what part of the stage toon is struck on.(IF its fresh)
both with good DI

 

[D Who?]

for the record, tink dies at 125 from a fresh usmash. Falco's bair kills about 150 to 200 (depending on what part of the stage toon is struck on.(IF its fresh)
both with good DI

**Fixed for correctness.

 

[-DR3W-]

I think it's pretty safe to say we're done with the Toon Link matchup. Someone should construct a summary of it.

 

[SN Viper]

we did a lack luster job on this MU for sure. Keitaro has alot of exp in this mu and he did not even contribute even Ozz some stuff from him would have been helpful both play with top lv tinks

 

[Brickbox]

I think along with a summary we should start posting a video that best demonstrates how to play the MU

That's just my opinion :3

 

[-DR3W-]

Well unless we can get something soon soon we should move on.

Brickbox, I'm not really for that because I don't think videos really tell you how to play a matchup. Maybe the person, but not the matchip overall. A summary, tips, and experience are what we need to learn. People can look up videos on their own if they want, especially with a new video thread.

 

[Brickbox]

I agree with you a video isnt really going to teach you much, it's just nice to see all the discussion and and tips applied in a video......also there is no TL MU videos in the video thread?

 

[-DR3W-]

......also there is no TL MU videos in the video thread?

Wow we ****ing suck.

 

[Slain Avenger]

All the TL videos were Vlade's and he requested them gone cause they were out dated.

 

[Vlade]

If you guys want I'm happy to record a set against a good toon link for the video thread and I'll try and play properly (for some reason I play kind of inconsistent when getting vids recorded).

I know there's a set between Keitaro and Jash (regarded as one of the best toon links out there) somewhere on youtube, I'm sure it would be easy to find.

 

[-DR3W-]

Here is the Keitaro vs Jash set for those who care.

Vlade: It wouldn't hurt.

 

[TheLastCacely]

what is the best way to handle a tl that just camps the top plat form of bF?

 

[Slain Avenger]

Be patient. A lot of TL do this because it's a relatively safe option but remember, he will have to come down eventually. If the TL is above you in the air, your safest option is to approach with strategic full hop bairs, maybe SH to FH bair or 2 full hops to FF bair.

Remember to always do this diagonally, make sure you're always at his side for his down air to not get you.

The only big threat is bombs, you can dance around those :3 patience :D.

You could wait for him to mess up and the second he touches one of the other 2 platforms nair him into some pressuring.

Don't be afraid to stand on one of the other platforms and powershield a couple of bombs, don't do this much but it might be a nice way to force him into an option and mind game him into screwing up a bit faster.

 

[TheLastCacely]

Thank you.

 

[MARLX]

I verse a toon link he is pretty decent but falco can shoot projectiles and stop toon links pretty easily also falco can destroy toon link with range and falco has better killing attacks.

 

[SN Viper]

I verse a toon link he is pretty decent but falco can shoot projectiles and stop toon links pretty easily also falco can destroy toon link with range and falco has better killing attacks.

This is not the case between higher level players.

Falco can deal with TL projectiles but he will not stop them. reflector is a good tool in the mu. once falco begins to abuse the reflector you will get zair to (option select) by TL

We do best aginst TL in cqc this will be avoided by all competent TL's as our cg and jab are very strong options. We also excel at long range. This is because TL will not be able to get projectiles over to us where as we can lazor from anywhere on screen. Now as Falco where you want to avoid by either closing the distance or making it bigger is Mid Range. At mid range TL is at his best in this mu. He can get all of his projectiles over to Falco force Falco into bad situations and set up attack strings.

We also do not have better killing potential in this mu. Our best kill option is bair or oos upsmash on a very pooly spaced attack. Most TL's will avoid hitting the shield with such poor spacing. full hop bair is a very fast attack and with TL in the air most of the game i feel that is our best kill move in the mu.

If anyone would like to add or debate i would be glad to discuss.

I have a TL in my Crew G-dub he understands the Char and the Falco mu i have also played with FL's best tink 2nlio.

 

[AgentObvious]

I'll post a write-up on the Match Up later on tomorrow, I've played a lot of matches against a good TL so I think I know the Match Up.

 

[SN Viper]

I'll post a write-up on the Match Up later on tomorrow, I've played a lot of matches against a good TL so I think I know the Match Up.

I am going to hold you to it i want that report dont by mid night tomarro, so we can spark talk on this mu. I also feel we did a very bad job breaking down this MU. any other discussion is much needed and will be met with a response.

 

[AgentObvious]

So should I still post the write-up or... ?

 

[SN Viper]

So should I still post the write-up or... ?

hell yeah give us what you got.