Matchup Chart v1

[DvarakElt]

It's done.
The Project M Matchup chart as voted on by you! (Hopefully)

Detailed info can be had here: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=04902217555129817768&gk=leasing

Some of them are probably completely wrong, but don't blame me. I just interpreted the data. (Is the Fox/Ganon matchup really that bad?)
? are because there wasn't enough data for that matchup to make an estimate.

Thank you to everyone who participated!

Here is the simpler one as promised.
Perhaps it's better not to assign exact values to match-ups yet

 

[Strong Badam]

Man I wish someone had told me sooner that DK was that awful. Thanks, Dvarak!

 

[B.W.]

Some of these matchups may very well be the dumbest things I've ever seen.

But I guess that's why you don't leave this **** up to votes lol.

 

[SpiderMad]

Damn you public, you're a bunch of noobs

 

[Kink-Link5]

What simplified chart what

Oh the 5 point system. You don't have to go out of your way to do that, really. I've reassessed my views on the conditions of matchup "toughness" anyway.

 

[hotdogturtle]

That chart is ridiculously hard to read. I'm not even gonna attempt to comment on the inevitable inaccuracies that everyone else is talking about.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Apparently Ganon is even worse against Fox than he is in Melee.

 

[traffic.]

This chart has a 90:10 matchup with logic.

 

[Scythe]

well there's nice colors

 

[Oro?!]

News to me ZSS' worst matchup is ROB. Guess Oracle just really sucks.

Friendlies are srs business.

 

[Deleted member]

props for putting this up. i don't agree with the sheik/marth list on my end, but i didn't vote so i'll stfu lol

 

[Kink-Link5]

Apparently Ganon is even worse against Fox than he is in Melee.

I don't agree with how a lot of the list ended up either, but this is a pretty silly statement. The group voting on these matchups could very well believe Fox:Ganon to be just as bad in Melee.

Even though 10:90 is really bizarre, it reflects the small sample size and participation in this research. It's way off base, but it is an excellent start for looking at matchups, even if they're wrong. Remember when Jigglypuff beat Young Link? Me neither because that matchup was never played by anyone until recently in Melee, yet it was listed as advantageous for the pink fluff.

 

[Burnsy]

As others have said, not the most accurate looking MU chart, but it's a start. There are definitely some things I can agree with. Nice job putting it together.

 

[BTmoney]

Fox peach didn't get even all of a sudden. And Sonic beats Fox? That's interesting.


The way Falcon placed is especially egregious.
Yeah there are all sorts of logical fallacies and ZSS is really that high?
:| I am disappoint.

 

[1MachGO]

Yeah, this MU chart is not very accurate...

TBH, general surveys are not the way to go with MUs. Most of the people on these boards aren't nearly qualified enough to estimate such a broad range of match ups. A better way to do it would be to consult each character's respective top level players. For instance, see if Strong Bad/Eli will give you DK's MU spread, JCaesar/Oracle for ROBs, Reflex for Wario's, Professor Pro for Snake's, Metroid for Charizard's, etc. Hopefully with that kind of information you could begin to formulate an accurate chart.

 

[DvarakElt]

Yeah, it's pretty silly in some parts. But it was mostly for fun anyway.
I think some of it is pretty good, but it definitely needs work.
Nothing is meant to be official, it's possibly no more significant than any of those tier lists posted on the speculation thread.

Vote on the one I'll probably do for Demo 3 if you want to make a better one. More votes, means a better chart.

 

[Juushichi]

Oh my god, lol.

I know people think GnW is bad, but... pfft. hahahaha.

This is great!

 

[JCaesar]

Jiggs and DK as 2 of ROB's worst matchups?

wat

 

[Spiffykins]

Fox, Falco, Jiggs, Sheik, Marth, Mario, Diddy, Pit, Sonic, and Peach are all what I would consider high tier. Other than a few standouts (Link/ZSS/Pika probably too high, Falcon/Ganon/Wolf/Bowser being so low, other people probably have their own), I'd say it's as good as we could expect such an early list to be.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Looking at the two charts, the 5-point system definitely feels more concise for what the matchups are, even if it is inaccurate. Thank you much for including it.

Characters like Fox and Marth are pretty accurate I'd say, and the 5-point system eliminates the implications of a "90:10" matchup in favor of "Hard counter."

To elaborate what I said earlier, I still employ a 5-point system, but interpret matchups in terms of "Could go either way," "Slightly favouring one character in a set" and "Heavily favouring one character in a set."

Looking at it like this, generalizing Fox:Ganon as generally and consistently going to Fox isn't far from the truth. You still have weird anomalies, but it definitely feels less silly than quantifying the matchups to a further extent.

 

[CyberZixx]

Seems people don't like heavyweights. Bowser, DK and even Ganon seem low to me.

 

[Vashimus]

Ganon is Jiggs' worst matchup? How does that work?

 

[Airrider]

I can´t believe how random this is. Where the people who answered trolling? The Ganon/Fox is obviously not serious and then there´s weird stuff like Dedede vs. DK 85/15

Dunno if this will work even in the long run. I guess we´ll see.

Maybe we shouldn´t even be able to vote 90:10 or 85:15 because there are no matchups that bad anyway.

 

[1MachGO]

If you are gonna have the community vote, the options should at least be simplified to even (ranging from 55 to 45), advantage (60+), or disadvantage (40-). Each option can be denoted as =, +, or - respectively. The MU chart will be vague, but at least it won't be exaggerated to terrible inaccuracies. I don't think there are many people on these boards that can accurately quantify that many MUs.

Though again, consulting people who actually have indepth understanding of specific character MUs because they play them at top/high competitive level would be the best way to go.

 

[NightShadow6]

No way charizard has that many bad matchs up.

 

[SpiderMad]

Ganon is Jiggs' worst matchup? How does that work?

Same for Diddy, I think both are the opposite.

EDIT: Wait, no. I read you wrong, I think that statement has the ability to be true. I believe Diddy has a good MU vs Puff though

 

[himemiya]

Can anyone explain to me how zelda is bad against fushigishu, falco,gnw, and ike?

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

This is awful.

I assume the majority of votes were by people who don't main any of the characters they voted for.

 

[hotdogturtle]

This is awful.

I assume the majority of votes were by people who don't main any of the characters they voted for.

More like "My friend plays <x> and always beats my <y>, this must be an impossible matchup!"

 

[Wizzrobe]

This is what happens when the chart is solely based off everybody's varying opinions on MU's lol.

 

[0RLY]

Sonic has the easiest edgeguarding game against all the spacies. Just mash B as soon as you see them attempt to recover. Guaranteed KO 100% of the time.

 

[BTmoney]

Who can't edge guard spacies? I understand Sonic does not have to drop them but at the same time ease of edge guarding does not determine MUs. *<-controversial bold statement.* That is why Falcon is not among the worst characters in Melee.


Also wolf literally cannot be as bad as this chart says. Good job compiling all of it but we should have to justify our opinions before be vote.

 

[WaterlessFishie]

Fox v Ganon is 90:10 for fox? Pretty sure it isn't even that bad in melee. Try again lol

 

[Kink-Link5]

Fox v Ganon is 90:10 for fox? Pretty sure it isn't even that bad in melee. Try again lol

I think the flaws of a 0 - 100 scale are shown pretty well with this information. The chart below the "exact" one is a little more forgiving in describing how sets work out for the mathcups. Things like Fox hard countering Wolf are still inaccurate, but it makes it a little easier to see and describe what's wrong with it rather than "Ganon:Fox isn't 10:90, it's 34:66!"

 

[Vashimus]

It's funny how Dvarak suggested a matchup thread since he found the Tier List Speculation thread innaccurate with constant theory crafting (correct me if I'm wrong). He makes an actual matchup thread, people vote and while it is still missing data, we find some matchups to be far ridiculous compared to any tier list that has been posted. So the question remains: what have we learned from this?

Spoiler

A: **** it, let the PMBR make the tier list, even if they don't want to, cuz we can never agree on this ****.

 

[Kink-Link5]

The only thing any significant number of PMBR members seem to agree on is that Squirtle is pretty booty. And that's not even close to universally agreed upon.

 

[Arcalyth]

I really hope that nobody takes this seriously and I especially hope that I don't start hearing people cite this chart...

 

[Hashtag]

Well, it was in good spirit. It made me laugh and very sad at the same time.

 

[Deleted member]

Wait...what? A bunch of these don't even match the general consensus I've seen around here. For example, I thought it was pretty much agreed that Zelda loses to Sonic badly, and yet on this chart she has the advantage?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

This list is awful. Where was the voting taking place for this? This game is so new to competitive play I doubt anyone even knows all the match-ups for a single character. Even the people who consistently win important tournaments only know the "common" matchups for their main and would be guessing at best for most of the obscure ones.