Matchup Chart v1

[Phaiyte]

I can tell you right away that Ganon does NOT have an incredibly hard time against an equally skilled Fox. Falco and Sheik are a much bigger deal to him than Fox will ever be.

 

[Oro?!]

A tier list is a helpful tool in making a match-up chart. Discussions around the top tier match-ups tends to be most important, so getting those right is where the time should be spent. We don't even have a consensus on what characters are good, so we should probably hold off on the match-up spreads for them all for now.

If you make a tier list that is extremely inaccurate and your top tiers have bad matchups, then there was no point in making a tier list. Matchup spreads determine tier lists, not the other way around.

Also Sveet, I would argue that Dreamland is way easier to time Ganon out on. The low, large middle platform on RF grants Ganon easy access to top platforms and the bottom is the same size as DL64.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

If you make a tier list that is extremely inaccurate and your top tiers have bad matchups, then there was no point in making a tier list. Matchup spreads determine tier lists, not the other way around.

Also Sveet, I would argue that Dreamland is way easier to time Ganon out on. The low, large middle platform on RF grants Ganon easy access to top platforms and the bottom is the same size as DL64.

Wanna just try it out? bo3 money match? >=)

 

[Oro?!]

Sure. Sounds like free cashflow.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Which side do you want to play?

 

[tedeth]

JOE WHY IS THIS CHART SO BAD!?!?!?

caps

 

[Mono.]

But you're not supposed to post lies on a christian message board.

 

[DrinkingFood]

That statement made me lol because such a message board would be based on lies anyways.

 

[Dudex11a]

This is silly

 

[BTmoney]

I don't think the threat of the timeout is why Fox ****s on Ganon, like he does. It is just the result of his speed and lasers. On a micro scale (macro would be timing out) Fox just waits out each engagement. If he's down then he lasers and does Fox stuff. I don't see how Ganon doesn't let Fox impose his will or stop him from camping at all. One of his worst MU's. It baffles me when when people think otherwise.


"Fox is the best character in the game and broken but bad characters almost go even with him."

 

[Sarix]

Wow I'm surprised this thread is still active, considering I'm pretty sure most of us agree that the metagame is still the equivalent of a toddler learning how to walk.

 

[DvarakElt]

Yeah the Chart is Bad. It was doomed by the limited number of people who voted, and people voting on match ups they know nothing about. It also didn't help that obsurvey decided to become a paid service half way through, and really didn't tell me the conditions of not having a paid account. (Turns out it's not that bad. I just can't make new surveys, but I can still reuse old ones.)

I am still going to do another one. If someone could recommend a method less prone to severe errors, it would be appreciated.

In any case, if more people vote it will reduce margin of error. If every character could get as many responses as shiek and bowser did this time that would be great.

I don't know when I'm going to do it. I think it depends on when Demo 3 comes out. I may just have an open poll running for the first 6 months of Demo 3 or something.

This first chart may hove been a dismal failure, but It was still an interesting exercise. If anyone wants to help or has any suggestions for the next one, it would be greatly appreciated.

Also, thanks to OkamiBW for his support on this one.

 

[Burnsy]

Honestly, I think it'd be better if you only shared the link with specific members here who have proven themselves to be knowledgeable. I'm not sure how you'd go about selecting such a group, but tournament results may not be a bad place to start. Perhaps at least 1 main per character to avoid biases. As many others have indicated in this thread, more people voting in a public poll does not necessarily mean a better chart.

It would also be good if your next poll allows them the option to only vote on MUs that they feel comfortable judging. I know not everyone has played a skilled and dedicated GnW or Squirtle main, so often they have to make these decisions based on playing around with the characters in friendlies. If you do this, some way of indicating how many people voted on a certain matchup would be good as well. That way if someone ends up with a terrible MU spread but only 2 people voted, it may indicate that the results are inconclusive to an extent.

 

[metroid1117]

Honestly, I think it'd be better if you only shared the link with specific members here who have proven themselves to be knowledgeable. I'm not sure how you'd go about selecting such a group, but tournament results may not be a bad place to start. Perhaps at least 1 main per character to avoid biases. As many others have indicated in this thread, more people voting in a public poll does not necessarily mean a better chart.

It would also be good if your next poll allows them the option to only vote on MUs that they feel comfortable judging. I know not everyone has played a skilled and dedicated GnW or Squirtle main, so often they have to make these decisions based on playing around with the characters in friendlies. If you do this, some way of indicating how many people voted on a certain matchup would be good as well. That way if someone ends up with a terrible MU spread but only 2 people voted, it may indicate that the results are inconclusive to an extent.

That would probably provide more accurate data, but the data could also be biased based on which characters are dominant in that player's region and that player's match-up experience with certain characters. I'm not saying that's a bad idea, it's just that there are pros and cons to surveying a smaller group when the game is so new.

 

[Burnsy]

That would probably provide more accurate data, but the data could also be biased based on which characters are dominant in that player's region and that player's match-up experience with certain characters. I'm not saying that's a bad idea, it's just that there are pros and cons to surveying a smaller group when the game is so new.

I can see how that could pose a problem. Perhaps it would be possible to do both and compare/contrast the results from each method? I really dislike the idea of only using a public poll. I think we would get a better chart overall from top players, even when factoring in region strength bias. Maybe even both charts could be combined through a weighted system? Just throwing some ideas out there.

What do you think of the idea of making voters able to opt out of judging matchups that they don't think they are appropriately experienced in? That's the only reason I myself have abstained from some of the character polls going on right now.

 

[Vashimus]

Another thing that's a problem is that we don't even know if they're going to do it. There was already limited data when the poll was open to everyone, and limiting it to pros or at least those who attend tournaments, a lot of whom don't seem to post much on Smashboards anyway... Not sure that'll go. But hey, it's a start.

 

[NickLeo]

Ivysaur-dedede has got to be at least 65:35