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Matchup Chart Thread UPDATED FIRST POST!

Noa.

Smash Master
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So my old thread was locked due to my inactivity but I do want to finish this project so here it goes.

Here is a matchup chart that was a general consesus of the Olimar boards (those who voted anyway).

Ratios are bad for you. We instead have terms to define each matchup.

The definitions for each term is as follows (taken from Hilt's matchup thread to promote consistency):

Even: Both characters have traits and aspects in the matchup to make it an even matchup. The game is completely dependent on the skill of the two players and their knowledge of the matchup.

Slight Advantage and Slight Disadvantage: Similar to "Even", although one character has some quality or trait to give the opponent a hard time, if used correctly. This advantage the character may have is usually not game changing, just something the character can abuse to a small extent to make things difficult to the opponent, while the other character lacks something similar. Still completely winnable for either player, even if at the same skill level.

Advantage and Disadvantage: This could mean many things, but basically, one character has a solid advantage against the other, although it doesn't mean the character completely shuts the other down. The character at the disadvantage will have to noticeably work harder for the win, and will struggle in the matchup, due to aspects more than the opponent simply outplaying them.

Large Advantage and Large Disadvantage: Basically the same definitions for "Advantage" but amplify them. Many players consider picking up secondaries for matchups in this category, it isn't advised playing a matchup that is a Large Disadvantage for your character. In most cases, one character has something (usually simple to abuse) that they are able to take a huge advantage of to completely shut down the opponent.




3 Large Advantages
12 Advantages
8 Slight Advantages
8 Even
2 Slight Disadvantages
4 Disadvantages
0 Large Disadvantages

If you have any big disagreements with the chart, then please post about it. :)
 

BOB SAGET!

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MetaKnight: advantage

Snake: even
Diddy: even
Falco: slight advantage
Ice Climbers: slight disadvantage
Marth: disadvantage
Wario: even

King DDD: advantage
Pikachu: advantage
Olimar: advantage Saget
Lucario: advantage
Mr. G&W: advantage?

Pit: slight advantage
Toon Link: advantage
Zero Suit Samus: even
Kirby: slight advantage?
ROB: slight advantage?

Donkey Kong: advantage?
Peach: disadvantage
Fox: advantage
Luigi: disadvantage
Wolf: even?

Sheik: even?
Pokemon Trainer: advantage
Sonic: advantage
Ness: even?
Bowser: large advantage

Lucas: advantage?
Ike: advantage
Yoshi: even?
Mario: advantage
Captain Falcon: large advantage
Samus: advantage?
Jigglypuff: advantage?

Zelda: adv
Link: adv
Ganondorf: L adv
 

-Vocal-

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MetaKnight: Disadvantage

Snake: Slight Advantage
Diddy: Even
Falco: Slight Disadvantage
Ice Climbers: Slight Disadvantage?
Marth: Big Disadvantage
Wario: Even

King DDD: Big Advantage
Pikachu: Even
Olimar: 90:10 his favor
Lucario: Advantage
Mr. G&W: Advantage

Pit: Slight Advantage
Toon Link: Large Advantage
Zero Suit Samus: Even
Kirby: Slight Advantage
ROB: Even

Donkey Kong: Large Advantage
Peach: Disadvantage
Fox: Advantage
Luigi: **** this mu. Oh yea, BIG Disadvantage
Wolf: Even

Sheik: Slight Disadvantage
Pokemon Trainer: Even
Sonic: Even
Ness: Slight Advantage
Bowser: Advantage (Big?)

Lucas: Slight Advantage
Ike:
-----With pivot grab: Advantage
-----Without: Nair, Jab, Throw, Dash Attack derp I'm dead :/ Shoulda pivot grabbed.
Yoshi: No clue - Even?
Mario: Even
Captain Falcon: Advantage
Samus: Big Advantage
Jigglypuff: Advantage

Zelda: Big Advantage
Link: Big Advantage
Ganondorf: Big Advantage

Good to see this back up :)
 

Excellence

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MetaKnight: Big disadvantage

Snake: Even
Diddy: Even
Falco: Slight advantage
Ice Climbers: Slight Disadvantage
Marth: Slight disadvantage
Wario: Slight disadvantage

King DDD: Big Advantage
Pikachu: Slight advantage
Olimar: Even
Lucario: Even
Mr. G&W: Slight disadvantage

Pit: Slight advantage
Toon Link: Slight advantage
Zero Suit Samus: Even
Kirby: Slight disadvantage
ROB: Even

Donkey Kong: Even
Peach: Slight disadvantage
Fox: Big advantage
Luigi: Big disadvantage
Wolf: Slight disadvantage

Sheik: Slight disadvantage
Pokemon Trainer: Slight advantage
Sonic: Big advantage
Ness: Slight disadvantage
Bowser: Big advantage

Lucas: Slight advantage
Ike: Big advantage
Yoshi: Even
Mario: Slight advantage
Captain Falcon: Big advantage
Samus: Big advantage
Jigglypuff: Big advantage

Zelda: Big advantage
Link: Big advantage
Ganondorf: Big advantage
 

BOB SAGET!

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Vocal..............WTFFFFFF!!!! Without even a question mark you listed DK as large advantage???? That mu isnt that easy at all......bair............weight.....range.......power.
 

-Vocal-

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Vocal..............WTFFFFFF!!!! Without even a question mark you listed DK as large advantage???? That mu isnt that easy at all......bair............weight.....range.......power.
I've been playing a lot of DK lately and while they gave me trouble when I started I haven't had much trouble with them since I learned the mu. I could just be playing bad DKs though ^v^ Feel free to disregard that part if you like
 

DtJ Hilt

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This system doesn't work. It's best to discuss the matchup listings individually, or in groups. Doing them all at once doesn't allow us to actually discuss why we feel the way we do, it just puts it as a vote.
 

Noa.

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This system is not meant to show why certain matchups are the way they are. It's only a consensus formed from the Oli boards, and is a point of reference for what most people consider to be our best/worst matchups.

If after this part of the system anyone HEAVILY disagrees with the consensus, we will reevaluate those specific matchups.

It's just not meant to explain the reasoning behind the matchups' difficulty. Those are what individual matchup threads are for.

In the end you don't HAVE to vote Hilt, though it would be nice since I value your opinion quite highly.
 

Sky Pirate

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Play the match-up offline, BOB. It's much harder on wifi.
 

Dnyce

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Vocal..............WTFFFFFF!!!! Without even a question mark you listed DK as large advantage???? That mu isnt that easy at all......bair............weight.....range.......power.
You're ********.
Play the match-up offline, BOB.
^

Imma go on ahead and claim that Dabuz and I are the only ones who really know the MU, having to play Will in tournament........ <.<'''
 

Noa.

Smash Master
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I've played the matchup a couple times offline. And I find the matchup to be evenish, maybe in our advantage. But I really don't think we have a large advantage on DK.
 

-Vocal-

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I've played the matchup a couple times offline. And I find the matchup to be evenish, maybe in our advantage. But I really don't think we have a large advantage on DK.
That's why I put Big as a question mark; I don't really think I've played the best DKs so I was unsure.
 

Dnyce

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Olimar ***** the **** out of dk by camping him - unless you're name is will... then dk camps the **** out of Olimar. I haven't had a chance to test out my ideas on the MU yet, so idk for sure.
 

-Vocal-

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Guys, could we stop discussing this? As Draco said, this thread is just to get a consensus, not to debate about what the matchup should be listed as. We can argue all we like when we have a matchup discussion on DK, but until then just post your own opinions and leave it at that.
 

RichBrown

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Will is really good

*note* I didn't look at what the initial votes were because I didn't feel like doing the math and figuring out what each character was considered overall, plus I'm Rich mother ****in Brown =)

MetaKnight: Disadvantage

Snake: Slight advantage
Diddy: Advantage
Falco: Slight disadvantage
Ice Climbers: Even
Marth: Slight disadvantage
Wario: Disadvantage

King DDD: Advantage
Pikachu: Slight advantage
Olimar: Rich Brown
Lucario: Slight disadvantage
Mr. G&W: Advantage

Pit: Even
Toon Link: Advantage
Zero Suit Samus: Even
Kirby: Advantage
ROB: Even

Donkey Kong: Slight advantage
Peach: Disadvantage
Fox: Advantage
Luigi: disadvantage
Wolf: Slight disadvantage

Sheik: Even
Pokemon Trainer: advantage
Sonic: advantage
Ness: slight advantage
Bowser: Large advantage

Lucas: Advantage
Ike: Even
Yoshi: advantage
Mario: Even
Captain Falcon: advantage
Samus: advantage
Jigglypuff: advantage

Zelda: large advantage
Link: large advantage
Ganondorf: large advantage
 

Jane

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finally doing mine


MetaKnight: disadvantage

Snake: even
Diddy: even
Falco: even
Ice Climbers: even
Marth: disadvantage
Wario: even

King DDD: advantage
Pikachu: advantage
Olimar: even
Lucario: advantage
Mr. G&W: advantage

Pit: advantage
Toon Link: advantage
Zero Suit Samus: even
Kirby: advantage
ROB: advantage

Donkey Kong: advantage
Peach: disadvantage
Fox: advantage
Luigi: disadvantage
Wolf: even

Sheik: even
Pokemon Trainer: even
Sonic: even
Ness: even
Bowser: advantage

Lucas: even
Ike: even
Yoshi: even
Mario: even
Captain Falcon: advantage
Samus: even
Jigglypuff: advantage

Zelda: advantage
Link: advantage
Ganondorf: advantage
 

Dabuz

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Olimar ***** the **** out of dk by camping him - unless you're name is will... then dk camps the **** out of Olimar. I haven't had a chance to test out my ideas on the MU yet, so idk for sure.
after i found out you lost to will because he did that ledge camp strategy, i smirked and LOLed so hard!
 

Dabuz

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MetaKnight: slight disadvantage

Snake: even
Diddy: even
Falco: slight advantage
Ice Climbers: IDK
Marth: disadvantage
Wario: even

King DDD: advantage
Pikachu: advantage
Olimar: purple pikmin wins
Lucario: even
Mr. G&W: slight advantage

Pit: IDK
Toon Link: advantage
Zero Suit Samus: slight disadvantage
Kirby: advantage
ROB: advantage

Donkey Kong: even (seriously)
Peach: disadvantage
Fox: IDK
Luigi: disadvantage
Wolf: slight disadvantage

Sheik: advantage
Pokemon Trainer: IDK
Sonic: advantage
Ness: even
Bowser: advantage

Lucas: advantage
Ike: slight advantage
Yoshi: slight disadvantage
Mario: IDK
Captain Falcon: advantage
Samus: advantage
Jigglypuff: even

Zelda: advantage
Link: advantage
Ganondorf: advantage
 

DtJ Hilt

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You think Luigi, Peach, and Marth are all harder than MK? Really?

MetaKnight: Disadvantage

Snake: Even
Diddy: Even
Falco: Even
Ice Climbers: Even
Marth: Disadvantage
Wario: Even

King DDD: Advantage
Pikachu: Slight Advantage
Olimar: Even
Lucario: Slight Advantage
Mr. G&W: Slight Advantage

Pit: Slight Advantage
Toon Link: Slight Advantage
Zero Suit Samus: Slight Advantage
Kirby: Slight Advantage
ROB: Slight Advantage

Donkey Kong: Even
Peach: Slight Disadvantage
Fox: Slight Advantage
Luigi: Disadvantage
Wolf: Even

Sheik: Even
Pokemon Trainer: Even
Sonic: Slight Advantage
Ness: Even
Bowser: Advantage

Lucas: Slight Advantage
Ike: Slight Advantage
Yoshi: Slight Advantage
Mario: Even
Captain Falcon: Large Advantage
Samus: Advantage
Jigglypuff: Advantage

Zelda: Large Advantage
Link: Advantage
Ganondorf: Large Advantage
 

Denti

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As I've played more and more my opinions on MUs are different than my last MU opinions
MetaKnight:disadvantage

Snake:even
Diddy:slight dis
Falco:slight adv
Ice Climbers:slight adv
Marth:disadvantage
Wario:even

King DDD:advantage
Pikachu:slight adv
Olimar:
Lucario:even
Mr. G&W:even

Pit:even
Toon Link:slight dis
Zero Suit Samus:even
Kirby:adv
ROB:slight adv

Donkey Kong:adv
Peach:even
Fox:slight adv
Luigi:slight adv
Wolf:slight dis

Sheik:adv
Pokemon Trainer:adv
Sonic: slight adv
Ness: slight adv
Bowser:adv

Lucas:adv
Ike: slight adv
Yoshi:adv
Mario: slight adv
Captain Falcon:adv
Samus:adv
Jigglypuff:adv

Zelda:adv
Link:adv
Ganondorf:adv
 

Noa.

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MetaKnight: Large Disadvantage

Snake: Even
Diddy: Slight Advantage
Falco: Even
Ice Climbers: Slight disadvantage
Marth: Disadvantage
Wario: Even

King DDD: Advantage
Pikachu: Advantage
Olimar: Even
Lucario: Slight Advantage?
Mr. G&W: advantage

Pit: Advantage
Toon Link: Slight Advantage
Zero Suit Samus: Slight Advantage?
Kirby: Large Advantage
ROB: Slight Advantage

Donkey Kong: Slight Advantage
Peach: Disadvantage
Fox: Advantage
Luigi: Disadvantage
Wolf: Slight Advantage

Sheik: Slight Advantage
Pokemon Trainer: Slight Advantage
Sonic: Large Advantage
Ness: Slight Advantage
Bowser: Large Advantage

Lucas: Advantage
Ike: Large Advantage
Yoshi: Slight Advantage
Mario: Advantage
Captain Falcon: Large Advantage
Samus: Large Advantage
Jigglypuff: Large Advantage

Zelda: Large Advantage
Link: Large Advantage
Ganondorf: Large Advantage

I didn't do it last night since I was so tired and I fell asleep before I got to it.
 

Dnyce

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MetaKnight: Disadvantage

Snake: Advantage
Diddy: Even
Falco: Slight Disadvantage
Ice Climbers: Even
Marth: Slight Disadvantage
Wario: Slight Advantage

King DDD: Advantage
Pikachu: Advantage
Olimar: Fino
Lucario: Slight Advantage
Mr. G&W: Advantage

Pit: Advantage?
Toon Link: Slight Advantage
Zero Suit Samus: No one plays this character
Kirby: Advantage
ROB: Advantage

Donkey Kong: Slight Advantage
Peach: Slight Disadvantage
Fox: Advantage
Luigi: Slight Disadvantage
Wolf: Even?

Sheik: Judo / Slight Advantage
Pokemon Trainer: Advantage
Sonic: Slight Advantage
Ness: Slight Advantage
Bowser: Advantage

Lucas: Advantage
Ike: Advantage
Yoshi: Even
Mario: Advantage
Captain Falcon: Advantage
Samus: Advantage
Jigglypuff: Advantage

Zelda: Advantage
Link: Advantage
Ganondorf: Scary
 

DtJ Hilt

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Sheik: Judo / Slight Advantage
LMAO <33

I actually like Fino's list for once XD Even though they look different, the only one that I actually disagree with is Mario being a solid advantage. Everything else I could compromise with.

But I mean.. who ever plays against a top mario? XD

Edit: Seriously though sometimes I wish I wasn't the only person that lived 30 minutes away from the ONLY ****IN SHEIK THAT KNOWS THE GOD **** OLIMAR MATCHUP
 

Noa.

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I've played against a couple of sheiks so I know the matchup well. I used to find it really really annoying, but now it's fine.

After I've reached the general consensus with the Oli boards, people can then discuss whether or not that consensus is wrong on whichever matchups.
 

-Vocal-

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LMAO <33

I actually like Fino's list for once XD Even though they look different, the only one that I actually disagree with is Mario being a solid advantage. Everything else I could compromise with.

But I mean.. who ever plays against a top mario? XD

Edit: Seriously though sometimes I wish I wasn't the only person that lived 30 minutes away from the ONLY ****IN SHEIK THAT KNOWS THE GOD **** OLIMAR MATCHUP
I played a Sheik today; he didn't even know the matchup amazingly and he was already giving me trouble. I think there's only one solution here: you should move :)
 

DtJ Hilt

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I've played against a couple of sheiks so I know the matchup well. I used to find it really really annoying, but now it's fine.

After I've reached the general consensus with the Oli boards, people can then discuss whether or not that consensus is wrong on whichever matchups.
I played a Sheik today; he didn't even know the matchup amazingly and he was already giving me trouble. I think there's only one solution here: you should move :)
No you guys don't even know >__<;
 

Dnyce

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Vocal and Draco are like the little kids... and Hilt and I have the perspective of the guy who shot the photo.

You don't even know....
 

Dabuz

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i play shiek =] and she falls too fast to give olimar too much trouble, but she does go even in camping due to her needles and extremely fast anti pikmin moves, and im not positive, but i believe she can dash attack through our grab
 

-Vocal-

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i play shiek =] and she falls too fast to give olimar too much trouble, but she does go even in camping due to her needles and extremely fast anti pikmin moves, and im not positive, but i believe she can dash attack through our grab
Can she also dash attack through our fsmash? I swear this happened earlier
 
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