Match-Up Discussion #9! Bowser

[Emblem Lord]

Most impressive 3xSwords.

Your match-up analysis' have been on point lately.

Good sh*t.

 

[Pierce7d]

From what I can see, Bowser is weakest from below, as his Dair is horribly laggy, and Bowser Bomb is easily countered. On top of not falling extremely fast, this makes Bowser an excellent target for juggle traps. Capitalize on the Up ending of Dancing Blade and Uthrows to initiate.

Furthermore, Bowser's Jab and Dtilt are two hits, as well as hit Dair, UpB, and Dsmash having multihitboxes. Capitalize on reactive Dolphin Slash out of shield on these moves, BUT keep an eye on Bowser's percentage. He's the heaviest character in the game, and you don't want to Dolphin Slash hitting him nowhere, because that Fsmash hurts a lot, so make sure he's got a little hurt on him first, before using this.

Bowser is relatively easy to shieldstab with the down version of Dancing Blade, if his shield isn't full, so make sure you throw in Shield Breaker, to get in those hits, and get him off balance. Once Bowser is off the ground, he loses a lot of range, and his shield, so even a small hit can be critical if followed up well. Most characters are easy to shield stab with a tipper Dsmash (NOTE: YOU MUST TIP) if their shield is reduced enough, and tipper Dsmash hits up, where is exactly where Bowser doesn't want to be. If he's shielding, and his shield is kinda low enough to land this, try it.

Feel free to chase Bowser very far off the edge, since he really can't compete with Marth's sword and aerial maneuverability. Just remember to come back soon enough to initiate edge-guarding, and reset the situation. If you don't have the spacing to hit Bowser out of his UpB before he reaches the edge, then hog the edge, and then ledgehop Uair him while he's lagging from his UpB. This will start the juggle trap. Of course, optimally, between Fair, Nair, Dtilt, and Counter, you want to just keep him off the map once you get him there.

Also, I'll just throw out the reminder that Bowser has a hilarious Footstool animation, and is horribly gimped by Footstool since his UpB is not good at all for vertical recovery. If the chance to use this does present itself, go for it.

 

[3xSwords]

Most impressive 3xSwords.

Your match-up analysis' have been on point lately.

Good sh*t.

Thanks made my day, too.

Anyway I also want to throw out the fact that Bowser has limited options in the air when he SH's. This is because all of his aerials unless initiated at the quickest possible moment will have landing lag, since they won't autocancel. Basically if you dodge/block a FF aerial from Bowser, guaranteed punishment.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Whats the best (easiest) way to kill Bowser? I'd think Fsmash but that doesn't seem to work so gimp him?

 

[Pierce7d]

Killing Bowser off the top is near impossible with Marth's pitiful Usmash. I would suggest you employ successful edgeguarding. Off stage Bair is too good, and Bowser has a hard time recovering from Dair to edgehog.

Dolphin Slash outta shield as he tried to ledge attack or UpB onto the stage is also a good move.

Also, at like 100% in the right direction, tipper Fsmash will kill even Bowser.

Lastly, breaking his shield is full of win.

 

[Shök]

I usually get him off the stage and use edgehogging

Once, you've got him off the edge, you can easily destroy him, by spamming Fairs and then doing a reverse Dolphin slash to grab the edge.

And watch poor bowser fall to his doom.

I find that's the easiest way to kill him, even if he does catch you with his up-b the invincibility frames save you from being owned.

Of, course all the bowsers I face spam their side b move...I hate that move.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Ack, haven't been on in sooo long, been away for about six weeks.

Anyways, I find spamming dancing blade works well against bowser, (but then again, who doesn't that work against?)

I often find myself playing a very stationary game, and often times relying on standing shieldbreak more than normal.

Shok, I see you've gotten into TWEWY, great game.

 

[Pierce7d]

Good Bowser's spam their ftilt.

And TKD back from the dead! W00T

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Yeah I was an academic camp for three weeks, then at a tkd camp for a week, and have been at Canada/Alaska for the last two weeks. I have missed so much.

And I hate Bowser's ftilt, I don't know why but Bowser gives me problems.

 

[Pierce7d]

Yeah I was an academic camp for three weeks, then at a tkd camp for a week, and have been at Canada/Alaska for the last two weeks. I have missed so much.

And I hate Bowser's ftilt, I don't know why but Bowser gives me problems.

Well, Ninjalink thinks he might counter MK, lol.

Bowser gives you problems because he's GOOD. Highly underestimated by most. His ftilt is not hard to space for him at all, and I think it has better frames than ours (not sure)

Welcome back bro!

Anyway. Does anyone know how early Marth kills bowser, and visa versa? Or am I going to hit training mode tomorrow?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

i think tipper fsmash kills at like 140 on the middle of fd.

 

[Shaya]

Any character with useful super armour and or invincibility frames on a REASONABLE fast/strong move seems to have epic MK counterability. (EDIT: HURR DURR)

Special mention goes to DK here. And Protip for all: Any character who seems to counter MK will more than likely also counter Marth.

 

[3xSwords]

.....? Shaya I'm confused why you posted that here.

 

[Pierce7d]

Special mention goes to DK here. And Protip for all: Any character who seems to counter MK will more than likely also counter Marth.

I thought this originally, but I find it to be untrue. Marth has some advantages that Metaknight does not. For example, Marth actually attacks from there air BETTER than MK does, while MK's ground game is vastly superior to Marth's. Furthermore, Marth is heavier AND floatier than MK., with tippers for more kill potential.

Marth doesn't really have a problem killing Bowser if he can land a good tipper smash. MK almost has to gimp him.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

i think tipper fsmash kills at like 140 on the middle of fd.

Well, seeing that tipper fsmash kills Snake at the center of FD at 88%, I think that it would be under 100% to kill Bowser.

 

[3xSwords]

Just want to mention a couple of his moves.

Bowser:

Dash attack: it may seem slow and very punishable at first, but after seeing some Bowser vids it seems to be their way of punishing spot dodging and air dodging when you get close to the ground. I would say this is likely due to the extra range Bowser gains when he lunges forward to attack. So just be wary of that.

F-smash: This attack is insane. Can deal 30+% uncharged. Yeah, be very careful about DS'ing against Bower as mentioned before. Also watch out for this move, because Bowser pulls his head back, and then lunges forward. This can be used as a dodge and counter attack tactic as you might physically miss Bowser's body and then get ***** by f-smashes deceptively big range. Yoshi's also tend to use this strategy with their moves too. So when you are fair zoning just be ready to shield or DS Bowser if he uses it.

 

[Steel]

Are we good with Bowser then? I'll probably put up the next discussion in a few hours.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Overall Bowser's defensive game rivals Marth.

His up b is amazing and really great out of shield.

He has flamebreathe to shut down ground approaches and f-tilt to punish poor spacing as well as his d-tilt and jab combo. Overall he has a very good ground game. He is also very heavy so he can take alot of punishment. To add to his arsenal he has his grab release set-ups which can go into almost anything he wants.

Perfect spacing is needed in this match lest Marth eat an f-tilt, up b out of shield or worse get grabbed and then grab released.

When played well on the defensive Bowser can seem like a wall, but with proper spacing and making sure to DI out of Flamebreathe when it catches you, you can see the holes in this fortress.

Overall Bowser can only match you on the ground. In the air he doesn't come close and Marth has superior edgeguarding as well.

Once you get him in the air he can down b so be prepared for that but he is still a big slow target so try to keep him up there. You don't want to let him have an easy time abusing his amazing defense.

Overall Bowser's defense and weight helps him out a great deal, but Marth has the tools to break through his defenses using superior speed, mobility and pressure.

60/40 Marth's advantage.