Ike
Go ^_^
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This can't be 60:40.Most peoples on are end (including myself) label it 60-40.
But yeah uhhh...one thing I will say is I hate dancing blade because it works sooooooo good.
Ike easily can space with his aerials, it's not just the jab he has.Ike doesn't really have any spacing tools besides his jab, and Marth will easily poke right through that.
I can see that, his aerials are good but most are slightly laggy at the end. Marth can just dancing blade once you land.Ike easily can space with his aerials, it's not just the jab he has.
I really see no issues with 40-60.
The reverse Aether trick stops from being counter gimped...I might be mistaken, but once Ike leaves the stage he's virtually dead. Aether is easily countered, Quick Draw easily intercepted (or countered), and a regular attempt to jump back on the stage can be easily D-Tilted or falling F-aired.
Challenge one of the notable Ike mains and see what they can do. Marth does not have a huge advantage in this match-up.This isn't 60:40.
Prove me wrong.
Lolwut? How does Ike gimp Marth? It doesn't work, it just doesn't. And of course Marth is light, but Ike has slow moves with the esception of Bair, Jab combo, and a few others. So how can you say this is 60-40? it doesn't make sense. What good Ike's have you played? Just because someone can beat you does not make them good. Stop basing your "facts" off of false information please.I actually see nothing wrong with 60-40. Having fought some good Ikes, definitely do not underestimate him and think you have the match in your hands. Don't forget that Marth's recovery isn't the best either. Ike can easily edgehog or intercept your recovery. And Marth being a lighter target means Ike has a much easier time sending you off the stage.
An ike that knows what he is doing will always get Marth off the stage first? Huh?The battle really depends on who gets thrown off stage first. A defensive and aggresive Ike that knows what he's doing can beat Marth off the stage first, but a aggressive Marth with good variety in his moves (That means not being predictable with F-air and Dancing Blade) can take Ike off the stage as well. That's what the Ike boards came up with during our discussion, and the fact that Marth can gimp Aether is what lead it to be a 60:40.
However, we didn't have much Marths in our discussion, just loads of experience, so I'm inclined to say a more in-depth discussion is in order for the sake of our match-up guide as well.
True, and they can also just time Aether to grab the ledge.The reverse Aether trick stops from being counter gimped...
False information? That's a laugh. Do you honestly think that I, being a Marth main, would readily make up disadvantages for Marth just for the sake of it? I'm obviously not going to sway your opinion, so why don't you do yourself a favor and see what Ike plays like in the right hands.Lolwut? what Ike's jave you played? And just because Marth is light does not mean Ike will have an easy time knocking him off, since his moves are slow with the exception of a couple of them. Stop basing your "facts" off of false information. Please.
I didn't say always, I said he can. Of course Marth will have the better chance due to his range and speed, but lets not factor out the chance that if Ike gets a hit, the momentum can easily go into his favor.An ike that knows what he is doing will always get Marth off the stage first? Huh?
Of course we expect the Ike to know what he is doing. You should expect the Marth to be top caliber as well and won't be just spamming fairs and dancing blade.
Marth has a much, MUCH better chance of recovering than Ike does.
Most recent Ike I fought was Light. Also played comboking, but I won every match if I remember correctly. The best Ikes here that post regularly would be Kirk and Ryko, I believe.I deleted that post, read the first long one on here, and answer my question, which Ike's have you played? And unfortunately the only Ike's that are good that I've played were on Wi-fi, where I,ve played Comboking, Rave925, and a few other people's Ike's, not great, but they are OK. But yeah, it's Wi-Fi, I know.
Uhm, I guess? lol, seriously. Come up with a better argument than "if he hits he will get momentum."I didn't say always, I said he can. Of course Marth will have the better chance due to his range and speed, but lets not factor out the chance that if Ike gets a hit, the momentum can easily go into his favor.
And Marth does have a better chance of recovering, yes, but lets not factor out Ike's best edgeguard tool against Marth: Eruption. A well-timed Eruption can send Marth flying when he's trying to sweetspot the ledge. The hitbox is rather huge and can hit from below. Sure, it's not as easy as Marth countering Aether, but it's still possible and can make an easy kill for Ike.
I've also had Ikes D-tilt me out of Dolphin Slash right before I grabbed the ledge. But Dolphin Slash is a very fast move that is usually hard to intercept.And Marth does have a better chance of recovering, yes, but lets not factor out Ike's best edgeguard tool against Marth: Eruption. A well-timed Eruption can send Marth flying when he's trying to sweetspot the ledge. The hitbox is rather huge and can hit from below. Sure, it's not as easy as Marth countering Aether, but it's still possible and can make an easy kill for Ike.
Agreed, Dolphin Slash is such a fast move that it would be hard to pull of the Eruption edgeguard without sufficient timing. But I suppose that comes with practice. I've seen people predict Marth's recovery very well. Dancing Blade doesn't do very much besides slow down Marth's fall speed, and Eruption has a huge lingering hitbox.That's true, but you would have to predict the exact time when Marth will up b. He can mix it up with his forward b.
This statement.Seriously. Ike takes a risk anytime he attacks and can't zone Marth effectively either..
How is this not 65/35?
I've seen this happen before. The Ike user kept charging Eruption while the Marth tried to keep stalling. Eventually, he realized he had to use Dolphin Slash, or he woudn't make it back to the stage. At that moment he used it, Eruption had charged completely and the knockback from the increased hitbox knocked Marth off the screen. It was quite a sight to see, and it's why I don't feel Dancing Blade is such a safe move to use for stalling. I'd rather grab the ledge as quickly as I can. Dolphin Slash will usually sweetspot before Eruption can hit anyways.What Steel is saying, I think, is that DB can be used to throw off the Eruption timing by stalling Marth in the air, so he will be harder to predict for his recovery.
If they don't fall for it the first time though, then that's kinda bad... x_xI know, I just meant to throw off the opponent as in use it once so they will see the sword movement, and release B thinking it is a n up-b, only to find out it isn't. Not to use it a lot, onlyas a mixup once of twice.