Mass Effect (King Maker) - Glorious Way to End the Day. Mafia Wins!

[Handorin]

Okay, I'm getting really annoyed at keeping track of who thinks Soup/Kary/Omni should go. I get this general feel from different slots that there's hate coming for those three slots, but I have no head for who specifically wants who gone in that group.

Gheb wants all three gone.
Ran (Kary) wants Soup and Omni gone.
Bardull wants Omni and Soup gone.
JDitz wants Kary and Omni gone.
Soup wants Kary gone.
BSP wants Omni and Soup gone.
Death Bear wants none of them gone.
Omni wants none of them gone.
Hando wants none of them gone.
We want none of them gone.

That's from the last 2-3 pages. I'm right, correct?

Since I happened to see this when Im checking between my classes, and it's fairly easy to answer, no. I want Soup/Omni gone. Kary(Ran) can stay.

 

[ranmaru]

@BardulL: It helps me in finding scum by seeing why my scumpick is posting something that won't help him find scum. To me it seemed like you were just trying to make Gheb respond in a way others can just **** on him 'for his playstyle'. I found it very insincere. I honestly don't feel you were intending to help Gheb there.

@Mastermind: I do want Omni/Soup gone.

 

[Omni]

I'm not dying toDay and I'm 99% sure I'm not shooting Soup toDay. So what have been the stances outside of that?

 

[ranmaru]

BardulL gone, Gheb stay for me.

 

[BarDulL]

Wat. I think you're reaching there primarily because I never went out of my way to say anything that couldn't be observed by everyone else EXCEPT Gheb. There was no attempt to paint him in a scummy light and I've got no clue how you came to that conclusion.

 

[Mastermind]

^That's what's made it a ***** for me to get an ironed out feel for whose pushing what there and why I asked clarification.

You have my shot choices, but you still haven't commented on it.

 

[Mastermind]

Double ninja. That salt was directed at Omni.

 

[ranmaru]

Gheb is so funny lol, GHEB dude you called RR a tool because he said he hates reading through your mudslinging, do you realize the irony in that? It's also disrespectful LOL. How do you not realize this about yourself?

Underlined and bold are very insincere. Not helpful in anyway, just asking for Gheb to bark at you.

 

[BarDulL]

WHAT. BUT IT'S TRUE!! What, do you want me to NOT tell Gheb that stuff so that he continues to do it? There was definitely irony in there and he was definitely being disrespectful, and he definitely did not realize that, so there was a need for emphasis in this regard.

Ran that's just whack yo.

 

[Omni]

^That's what's made it a ***** for me to get an ironed out feel for whose pushing what there and why I asked clarification.

You have my shot choices, but you still haven't commented on it.

jdietz and hando, right? both were on my can die list.

at this rate, tho, im finding it incredibly difficult for town to win this. 2-3 town members are making this very easy for scum. i've thought about the soup thing for a bit more recently now. if i shoot him and he flips town, i'll probably die overnight. if i shoot him and he flips scum, then i'll be killed during the Day by town. neither of those scenarios are good so i'mma just keep on livin

both you and dbear want jdietz dead, methinks. that's a good sign. i forgot if u mentioned this, but what was your stance on Jerkus again? i -think- u want him dead, too, but i'm not 100% sure

 

[Omni]

WHAT. BUT IT'S TRUE!! What, do you want me to NOT tell Gheb that stuff so that he continues to do it? There was definitely irony in there and he was definitely being disrespectful, and he definitely did not realize that, so there was a need for emphasis in this regard.

Ran that's just whack yo.

lol stuff like this makes me not want to shoot Bardull. sometimes.

*scratches head*

im gonna take a break and let the conversation go on without me for a while and sit back and observe.

 

[ranmaru]

Bardull, your tone was insincere. What I'm saying is that I feel you posted that to add fuel to the fire. Can you see my pov here?

 

[BarDulL]

This is why I hate online text conversations, because tonality can be difficult to interpret. :/

I understand what you're saying now, but I wasn't drawing conclusions about his slot based on him being a **** tho.

 

[BarDulL]

I actually think Gheb is Town for the record, like based on meta and his play so far.

 

[Mastermind]

Jerkus I have town lean at the moment. He's absolutely worlds above most of the cast here.

 

[BSP]

Okay, I'm getting really annoyed at keeping track of who thinks Soup/Kary/Omni should go. I get this general feel from different slots that there's hate coming for those three slots, but I have no head for who specifically wants who gone in that group.

BSP wants Omni and Soup gone.

I want Bardull toDay, and I need to look into Jerkus more.

I feel like there's connections and evidence for a lot of different viewpoints, but I feel that Bardull isn't a bad lynch in any way. I really need some flips to progress, because I'm just going back and forth with myself for the most part.

No, where did I say that I don't have stances?

Sorry, you didn't. You did say you don't have 4 scum reads.

I'm curious about this though because there's a lot of suspicious behavior on the table right now.

 

[BarDulL]

Come at me bro.

Suspicious behavior =/= scum read.

 

[BSP]

i'd rather not try to go more into detail that what my stance is here. rather, please respond to me with some kind of substance as to why you may/may not like this information and why. i have noticed that toDay has brought out a lot of anti-jerkus stances as a whole, but most of them have been put 3rd and 4th on the priority list (behind soup, me, and kary).

my guess is that u want Jerkus gone. you're probably my strongest town lean at the moment.

also, what do you think of ranmaru

I like Ranmaru's catch-up and questioning right now. He's fine for now.

I'm looking in regards to Jerkus

jerkus - ive enjoyed his play. he seems like the level headed version of Gheb. there are a few things that i dont disagree with, and a few things that i do agree with.

What are these things that you do and don't agree with? This is a vague explanation, and I'd rather know exacts.

however, i don't think scum Jerkus would kill of No Hetero based off their D1 play and that's one of the sole reasons why im fine with him living toDay as well.

I don't think using the NK as basis for your read is a good idea. I will give my thoughts though. Why wouldn't scumJerkus kill NH? They were at odds for pretty much the entire D1.

that and the fact that he jumped on Soup early D1 for his vote on Dabuz which i felt was really strong

I think you're giving it a little too much credit. Jerkus did ask Soup why he was voting for Dabuz, but I didn't see any posts after in which Jerkus really pushed the issue. It was just a question. I wouldn't give it a strong town lean just off of that.

 

[BSP]

Come at me bro.

Suspicious behavior =/= scum read.

I want Jerkus to answer my question first.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Ran makes me like the Kary slot.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Also, I hate this game and everyone in it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

BSP is literally the only player that is even close to likable right now. I want him to be king again by D3.
Ran is doing a good job and eases my troubles.
JDietz is such a crapshoot.
Bardull keeps being useless.
DBear keeps posting for no transparent reason.
Mastermind won't get off his high horse.
Jerkus continues to lurk.
Hando continues to lurk.
Omni wants to shoot gheb for some lame reason.
Gheb refuses to work with anyone.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Let me know when someone is dead.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Shoot JD or Bardull.

 

[Omni]

I'm not really going to shoot, Gheb. I just love getting him wound up.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

jdietz and hando, right? both were on my can die list.

at this rate, tho, im finding it incredibly difficult for town to win this. 2-3 town members are making this very easy for scum. i've thought about the soup thing for a bit more recently now. if i shoot him and he flips town, i'll probably die overnight. if i shoot him and he flips scum, then i'll be killed during the Day by town. neither of those scenarios are good so i'mma just keep on livin

both you and dbear want jdietz dead, methinks. that's a good sign. i forgot if u mentioned this, but what was your stance on Jerkus again? i -think- u want him dead, too, but i'm not 100% sure

wat

10wats

 

[Death Bear]

wat

10wats

quote
10quotes

 

[Omni]

confused your jerkus with jdietz^

 

[BSP]

Jerkus

After a big reread, Omni currently stands as my lightest town lean. His push for Dabuz was bad, as was everyone's push for Dabuz (Marshy is gonna tell me off in endgame, I'm sure), but as a general concept, I do understand the idea of wanting to get rid of people that are viewed to be difficult to read ("liabilities," if you want to go with the current buzzword). Omni, in particular, is known for this, so that doesn't ring any alarms for me. What does bother me about Omni is that he apparently stuck to this concept despite already forming a scum read on at least one player (that was Soup). I would think that would trump lynching a null player for being null, so seeing him go that route while buddying NH gives me the willies. Seeing him talk about NH so much after his death and group himself together with the slot now that the slot has flipped town is also bothering me.

Also bothering me is the fact that I have not seen him push his biggest scumread from yesterDay, Soup. I would think he would have started the Day brandishing his gun at Soup to make him talk, but that didn't happen. I asked him which slot he most wanted to shoot at the start of the Day, and he blew that off saying he needs to reread.

In a nutshell, here’s what bothers you about Omni:
His push for Dabuz
Wanting to lynch Dabuz over Soup
Buddying with NH
Not pushing Soup

These are all 4 legitimate worries.

However, at the end of your post, you give Omni a town lean.

Currently unsure if I'm seeing Scumni trying to wriggle out of shooting his scum partner Soup, or if I'm seeing TownOmni getting levelheaded now that he's in charge of the big gun. Currently leaning toward the latter because I would think scum would relish this distancing opportunity.

Ultimately, I'm currently going with the scenario that Omni is town and trying to make an informed decision while also being a little too attached to NH. It's not like we can execute him toDay anyway, sooooo. People should just keep an eye on him ToDay and make him answer for any shady **** on D3.

You give him a town lean based on WIFOM reasoning, and that’s about it.
You must have faith in this read, because you proceed to leave Omni out of all of your lynch pools with 4-5 people that you post later, and you reiterate that Omni is probably not scum.

I don’t believe this stance change is legitimate. Let’s take a look at your D1 play, and your concerns with Omni, and the Dabuz lynch in general.

Spoiler

Some things about you rub me the wrong way, such as your unexplained vote on Dabuz despite apparently having a town read on him. More recently, you're less of a focus for me.

No. I don't think he's vital to keep around, but plenty of people have given **** reasoning for being suspicious of him so far, and it's easy to get away with that kind of thing with a player like Dabuz.

You’ve got a problem with Omni’s vote on Dabuz despite claiming his non-scum read on him, and you think people are giving bad reasoning for Dabuz’s lynch.

Dabuz is not the play. He is flat null. He is usually null in the games he plays; that's what makes him such an easy scapegoat for the mafia. He has not done (nor avoided doing) anything that makes him clearly scum. Yet he has garnered quite a bit of scum calling from the mob already. Because of this, I'm forced to conclude that the hate directed toward Dabuz cannot all be well-intentioned. If you have a read on Dabuz that leans strongly on either side of null, you are probably bull****ing somewhere. You are doing this because you either know he's an easy mislynch, as I've stated, or you are his scumbuddy and are getting that bus going before he can even make any actual scum slips. Either way, it's anti-town. That's truly my stance on this right now. No one has any reason to be pushing for Dabuz's lynch; that has been made perfectly clear by the fact that not one person on his wagon has given a single decent reason for why they want him dead.

I would sooner see any one of the Dabuz wagoners go toDay before Dabuz. No Hetero, Soup, Omni and Kary can all eat a bullet for all I care (in roughly that order, I think, but the Day is young).

How is it possible that, of all the players on this roster, I'm mind-linking best with Gheb right now?

Here, you are clearly dissatisfied with the push towards Dabuz. You state the push does not have good intentions, and that no one has any reason to be pushing the lynch. You say that you’re fine with all the wagoners being gone. You include Omni in this group.

Okay, but you clearly only want him dead because you just don't think he'll be easy to read and you don't want to have to deal with that. And you're afraid to get rid of "stronger players." Guess what: Sometimes, one of the stronger players is scum. And that makes that player the better lynch.

You say Dabuz's flip is the most informative, regardless of his alignment. If Dabuz flipped town right now, what information would that net you?

I'm also confused about why you seem to agree with my basic point that people expressing suspicion of Dabuz are themselves suspicious, yet you would still prefer to lynch Dabuz because "information and he's useless and stuff." It's like you're actively trying to avoid better lynch options.

@Dabuz: It would actually be awesome if you were here and participating in this discussion. If you're lurking, stop.

Again, you question Omni about why he’s pursuing Dabuz’s lynch. This is good, and a legitimate concern.

You are twisting my words!

I never said Dabuz cannot be scum. Not once. I even said previously that Dabuz could be scum and fellow scum are bussing him before he even gets a legitimate chance to slip. Dabuz's actual alignment doesn't even matter at this point. What matters is the intention behind the people who have so quickly, voraciously and baselessly descended upon him so far. Ugh.

And what do you mean you've never played with Dabuz? How can that possibly be true? It's not like either of you are newbies.

You are worried about intentions behind the push.

Part of the problem is the idea that any one player has been shown to clearly be the best lynch at all yet. Deadline's not for another week, but you, and apparently others, have come to the conclusion that NOTHING more can be learned until Dabuz is dead. That his flip is the only thing that can remove some kind of imagine blockade before us. I do not see why.

You can argue that Dabuz is not worth holding onto. That he would make a fine backup lynch. That he is inactive and should post more (much more). I would agree with all of that. You could actually speak directly to him and try to pressure him into actually standing for more things so people can read him better. If nothing else, that could at least help to make his flip even more informational.

What you cannot do is throw up your hands a week out from deadline and say "well, I guess we shoot the quiet one and hope for the best. But not the quiet one named Mastermind, because he scares me. The other quiet one," and expect to be taken seriously.

You yourself say that you consider Dabuz to be null. Still.

Again, deadline is a week away.

But you think that everything is already sealed up. All of the "connections have been made." That everything's already been solidified. We couldn't possibly use the time we have left to, say, continue examining null players?

This is nothing other than transparent laziness.

@Omni: You want to lynch a null read even though you have eight days to try to gain information on him (and others), if you wanted to. That is not efficient. That is lazy. Just because you post a lot does not make you useful or productive. You don't want to do any work toward trying to clear up your read, so you'd rather just see the flip shrug your shoulders if we end up mislynching.

We can't win on guess-and-check alone.

I do not want to lynch "HIS ENTIRE WAGON" before him. I consider "HIS ENTIRE WAGON" a better lynch pool to draw from because there is definitely scum in it, regardless of Dabuz's alignment. There is either opportunistic scum in there, or there is an overzealous scumbuddy in there. But there are players within that lynch pool that cancel each other out in terms of scumbuddy relations. Like I said, Soup/NH probably isn't a thing.

Alright, so you had all those problems with Dabuz’s lynch, and you voiced some concerns to Omni.

Now, what doesn’t make sense is how, after making all those concerns and statements about Dabuz’s execution, you give Omni a town lean, and seemingly ignore all the things he's done that have bothered you by him out of all of your lynch pools.

Omni's probably not really scum. Just whackness paralleled only by Bardull (who is also probably not scum).

Scum is here:

Kary
Soup
Mastermind
Hando
Maaaaaaaybe Jdietz due to the way Soup went full brute against him later into D1, but Jdietz is too on point with his Soup v. Kary read from that time. Feels more like scumSoup flailing against the townie winds.

Omni was basically the definition of everything you said was bad in D1, but now you’re going to turn and give him a town lean when he spearheaded most of it? And your reasoning is WIFOM reasoning at that? You never outright called Omni scum, but this feels like a full 180 to me.

 

[BSP]

Ok, actually, calling it a 180 is pushing it seeing as you never called him scum. It still doesn't add up though.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

hey BSP remember that time i called Jerkus out for the same thing with soup.
comment on that

 

[Death Bear]

hey BSP remember that time i called Jerkus out for the same thing with soup.
comment on that

quote

 

[BSP]

It looks fine to me, and it's probably something of concern if we both noticed it, and it happened twice with 2 people.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Where is the idea coming from that I don't want to work with anybody? I am open to work with anybody but nobody seems to be willing to actually work with me. Yall need to quit constantly projecting your own shortcomings onto the only guy who is not a slave to popular opinions.

Gheb, who DON'T you want gone?

BSP, Jerkus, JD, DB and myself
I wouldn't be sad if you or Hando were to die but I don't actively want to push for either of your slots. So I guess these two slots also fall into the "don't *want* gone"-category
Undecided about Ran/Kary-slot.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And while you're at it, can you give me your take on Bardull? Read and reasons?

Why aren't you just looking it up yourself? *smh*

Short summary: I think Bardull is scummy for more than just one reason. I think the way he disappeared throughout most of Day1 and showed up right after the execution was called was fishy. I do not understand why he'd call me out on not "protecting" dabuz forcefully enough for I made it clear that it's not dabuz' death that bothered me but the fact that much better plays were left alone. I had no power to stop the execution, I did not mind dabuz' death enough to really "protect" him and I've been vocal enough about my opinion that somebody else makes a better play. What could he actually be accusing me of? He, of all people - he, who iirc was actively pushing a towndabuz read and disappeared when it actually mattered. He, who called me responsible for it rather than confronting the people that actually *were* responsible for that twisted course of action that Omni still tries to justify as legit when it was just pure BS. In this context, I also find the fact that his early D1 game consisted mainly of complaints and his recent attitude of not caring about the game both to be suspicious and shady is well.

 

[BarDulL]

Gheb is Town.

BUT IS READING INTO MY SLOT TOO HARD.

I'm busy as fuuuuu, hater. Me coming in at the end of D1 with the same stances that I had during D1 isn't whack, 'cause why would me doing that be scummy anyway? Dafack?

I'm a student. I have 5 classes. FIVE. That's a lot of studying per class, yo, and only one of them is online.

Hell, I just got out of a 3 hour speech class. ~_~

I was pushing against the Dabuz lynch when I had time, Gheb is on the haterade.

BSP, throw your case at me, I want all this bullshiz BarDulL paranoia out of the way.

 

[Omni]

that's the kind of flailing read that i picked up from Soup^

bardull, did u want Soup dead?

 

[BarDulL]

No flailing, it's the gorf damn truth!

Yes.

 

[Omni]

what i mean is that it's an AtE. any AtE when under pressure is considered flailing

Soup did this yesterDay with something like, "god, im stressed. this game is dumb. why is it dragging out so late? these are my stances. im tired of repeating myself" type stuff.

 

[BarDulL]

Can you point out where I'm using AtE in that post? Soup venting about his personal problems to everyone is different from me explaining why I haven't been able to post as much.