Mass Effect (King Maker) - Glorious Way to End the Day. Mafia Wins!

[BSP]

Yes. However, I think this case is different. The vig claim in PB/BaM got allowed you to avoid discussion for D1 and no one felt the need to question you. You essentially took thread control with no sweat.

Here, I can't see your posts concerning why you'd be a good King/who wouldn't be a good King as a calculated measure for some underlying scum measure. What would you get out of it? They didn't get you any control, and they actually got people on your tail for possibly being a liability. I'm not seeing how that plays out in a scum agenda.

 

[Omni]

Omni, yo. Homie.

Sup. Okay, first thing, gimme an awesome gif. Give me the manliest ****ing gif you've got and inspire me (and my muscles) to do great things.

You done that? Aight. So I want to run this town Grove Street. I want it so bad. So bad. But I need to know you a homie, not a busta, gnomesayin? What if I vote to let you do this thing? Would you make one compromise that'd help me read you?

word here's what's up my man. If it comes down to you takin' the shot, just do one thing for me. Write a paragraph or two about why you picked that person. Not askin' for a lot here. Just a six-inch information footlong sub with jalapenos. You do that, I'll know if we're homies. How's that sound?

not a problem, sweetheart.

And while I've got your ear, what do youth think? Sheriff Omni all day forever, or let town decide whether to share a Kary modkill/let you play lone ranger? I know you love bein' the big guy, but I know you also love information. Only thing town Omni loves more is two scumflips in one Day, eh bub?

right now i don't have much faith in town. im leaning towards taking matters into my own hand; i'm pretty confident in shooting Scum toDay. however, i will make my stances and observations after i get the majority of the info from the flip from the rest of the cast. so it all depends on how helpful "town" will be. so far we're a few days into Day 2 and we've got inactives and skimmers galore.

also i didnt ignore, but i just wanted to make sure that wasn't a 1-post prod that u weren't really going to follow up on. glad to see u did, my friend.

Omni - you're a slight scum lean for me, honestly. I know you're all for lynching liabilities quickly, but you just sat on Dabuz's lynch all of D1 even while you had Soup as a scum lean (yes, I know you explained yourself, but I'm just saying I still find it odd). It's also odd that now, you're not so sure on seeing Soup go. I would like to hear what changed your mind, as well as an execution pool for toDay if you don't mind.

I also want to know if you have any objections to Kary going toDay.

this (and everything else u posted) was good stuff. i won't go into detail yet about Soup, but let's just say that it was the combination of him appearing more town towards the end of D1 and the existence of some of the other cast. i will gladly expound on this more after i get enough feedback from the dabuz/no hetero flip from everyone else.

kary. hm. to be frank, i liked kary's early game play a lot. i'm having a hard time understanding why people are finding him so scummy because a lot of it focuses around:

- him being on the dabuz lynch. which is what me and marshy were doing. and what soup eventually started doing.
- meta. apparently people know kary things that i dont know i.e. horrible D1 stuffs?

again, without going into too much detail, but i was on the same page as Kary early D1. his vote on Dabuz was a great pressure vote that didn't receive enough follow up (which eventually led to Dabuz' lynch because Dabuz was definitely not pressured enough with all the whiteknighters or fence sitters).

so i'm not opposed, but i'm definitely not for it yet. seeing how he and the rest of the cast respond to my question can overturn or change those feelings. essentially, i am trying to solidify that my reads match what i EXPECT people's reads to be.

lastly, regarding you. i kinda like you. i like what you have to say, but i dont like how you go about saying it. i like players that make decisions without asking too many views from other people firsthand. it shows willingness to make a stance that may or may not be favorable in the eyes of the town which is a route that scum rarely makes unless they're a great scum player. so im cautious of you because of how you come about your decisions, but im okay with you living because of the actual decisions/stances that you've made.

 

[BSP]

I can't bring myself to believe that any townie would resort to such measures to defend themselves or get any case anywhere. It doesn't fit. Someone tell me how Soup is town.

I agree Soup's later D1 play can be viewed as scummy. However, I think that it has some merits too, and that's why I'm so wound up about it. He could've given up and allowed himself to get lynched. If you're town, you'd want to fight against your mislynch, wouldn't you? I think it goes both ways. Do you think the town idea is a possibility? I'll admit that Soup did seem rather extreme in his methods, but is it surefire scum intention?

 

[BSP]

kary. hm. to be frank, i liked kary's early game play a lot. i'm having a hard time understanding why people are finding him so scummy because a lot of it focuses around:

- him being on the dabuz lynch. which is what me and marshy were doing. and what soup eventually started doing.
- meta. apparently people know kary things that i dont know i.e. horrible D1 stuffs?

again, without going into too much detail, but i was on the same page as Kary early D1. his vote on Dabuz was a great pressure vote that didn't receive enough follow up (which eventually led to Dabuz' lynch because Dabuz was definitely not pressured enough with all the whiteknighters or fence sitters).

so i'm not opposed, but i'm definitely not for it yet. seeing how he and the rest of the cast respond to my question can overturn or change those feelings. essentially, i am trying to solidify that my reads match what i EXPECT people's reads to be.

As far as I'm concerned, Jdietz's 1331 and his other posts right after that still apply. I don't think anyone debunked it (I'm not reading 20 pages again in the same day ), but I could be wrong. Assuming it hasn't been contested:

I think they make sense and form a decent case. Do you disagree with Jdietz's reasoning?

 

[BSP]

\

Omni, shoot Hando.

Someone, talk to me.

I retreat for now. Going to talk to EE tonight or I'm going to go without him tomorrow.

What made you want Hando dead?

 

[Mastermind]

Obviously I can't answer that because you're talking to Ryker there, and Ryker may or may not be bailing. I'll be honest, getting straight up corrected by Ryker on something when I was right and he wasn't knocked me for a damn loop. It's just weird to have the rug pulled out from under you like that. I still wouldn't mind seeing Hando go -- after all, he did concede the crux of my old point, which was that he seemed to be assuming I'm town without deciphering it for himself. I know he has a couple pushes out there (finally), and I haven't given them a look yet, so that'll probably decide some things for me.

Even if Ryker's bailing outright I'm gonna try to rope an answer to this out of him, at least.

BSP, do you think town should gamble on a Kary modkill, or let Omni take a shot?

 

[Mastermind]

Oh, I just realized that somewhat outta nowhere

Yeah I just felt like it'd be productive to explain where my head's at re: Hando prior to a reread, since that's the pothole this slot got stuck on and since you asked about it.

 

[Mastermind]

pretty sad not to see new soup posts btw

 

[Mastermind]

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm starting to think that a Kary modkill might be better than shooting him just because of how amazingly awesome it would be to be able to carry on with D2 [in case Kary's scum]. The question is just, how much more time Rockin is going to grant the slot. Personally, I would've modkilled by now and think Rockin should do so soon. If not, then I would totally not mind Omni ending this Day tbh. I feel like it has been staled because Bardull and Hando seem to not care a lot, input of JD and Jerkus has been somewhat sporadic and soup basically only posts to complain about how terrible this town is whenever somebody dares to accuse him. And yeah, Kary is inactive, has been pointed out as a scummy slot by at least JD and myself, gives some decent info from his D1 connections and is completely inactive. Shoot him whenever you feel like it imo

 

[Handorin]

I think it's funny that despite me saying "hey, this is what's going on in my life. Don't expect a lot" that people think I don't care and just lurk more hard core than I'm prone too. Even when I crank out a case every now and then.

I have a couple responses I want to do. I just need sufficient time.
Until then. Too ta loo.

 

[BSP]

Don't drag this out, dude.

Isn't Hando one of the slots we need to get more information out of right now?

After a big reread, Omni currently stands as my lightest town lean. His push for Dabuz was bad, as was everyone's push for Dabuz (Marshy is gonna tell me off in endgame, I'm sure), but as a general concept, I do understand the idea of wanting to get rid of people that are viewed to be difficult to read ("liabilities," if you want to go with the current buzzword). Omni, in particular, is known for this, so that doesn't ring any alarms for me. What does bother me about Omni is that he apparently stuck to this concept despite already forming a scum read on at least one player (that was Soup). I would think that would trump lynching a null player for being null, so seeing him go that route while buddying NH gives me the willies. Seeing him talk about NH so much after his death and group himself together with the slot now that the slot has flipped town is also bothering me.

Also bothering me is the fact that I have not seen him push his biggest scumread from yesterDay, Soup. I would think he would have started the Day brandishing his gun at Soup to make him talk, but that didn't happen. I asked him which slot he most wanted to shoot at the start of the Day, and he blew that off saying he needs to reread. Currently unsure if I'm seeing Scumni trying to wriggle out of shooting his scum partner Soup, or if I'm seeing TownOmni getting levelheaded now that he's in charge of the big gun. Currently leaning toward the latter because I would think scum would relish this distancing opportunity.

Ultimately, I'm currently going with the scenario that Omni is town and trying to make an informed decision while also being a little too attached to NH. It's not like we can execute him toDay anyway, sooooo. People should just keep an eye on him ToDay and make him answer for any shady **** on D3.

I disagree with the town lean (Even if it's light) and how you suggest going about Omni toDay. You've clearly expressed your concerns about the slot, but you're not going to pursue them at all? Yes, I know Omni is King toDay and he's not going to execute himself, but we've got Days to come. Why not question him now if you've got concerns? Just as everyone told me, being King isn't some free pass.

The Soup in my stomach still isn't sitting right. I'll tell you why right after our brief message, brought to you by Soup himself!

And not that Omni is concerned with this part of the post at all, I'm putting this out there for the rest of you and all future generations:
I disagree with Jerkus. I think Soup is Scum. Omni is his scum buddy. Soup was his biggest scum read yesterDay, never really pushed it despite that, and now he is still not pushing it, even though he has a gun. His play in the area of the play pin has done a 180 with no explanation.


Also, I'm wanting to do a Marshy kill and dabuz wagon analysis, but I'm running out of time now. Hopefully I can get that up by the weekend.

As far as I'm concerned, Jerkus has a scum read on Soup and doesn't have a town lean on him in the slightest.

Gut's saying Soup, but Kary may be the safer and ultimately better play. Obviously we can't lynch Omni and I already explained where my head is on him. And I still think people need to be keeping an eye on RykEEr/Hando (ultimate rule #1, holy ****). Part of me wants to spend a fair amount of time just getting them to post and own some reads.

Why did you think you were disagreeing with Jerkus?

 

[BSP]

I'm here, and I'll be reading, but times are tough for a young student.

I agree with Jerkus. I'll be upset with the Jerkus slot if he's scum, but he's the only one I can trust right now, and he shares my hatred for Soup.

Why do you trust Jerkus?

 

[BarDulL]

He shares my hatred for Souuuup.

Otherwise, I don't have an immediate town or scum read on him because Circus hasn't dropped anything from what I've seen as of yet that is really conclusive.

 

[Jdietz43]

I have returned to the world of the healthy(ish), catching myself up on this (and another game).

 

[Omni]

Still waiting for death stances from:

Kary, Jdietz, Mastermind, Hando, and I think Jerkus.

 

[Jdietz43]

Death stances? (sorry was focusing on a diff. game)

 

[Jdietz43]

Rake's Gut Reads:
-----------------------------

JD: I'm worried about you not having J as scum. No but seriously, where's the J scum read? Oh yeah talk to me about why Soup over Jerkus in particular. And why it is you like Jerkus.

Why indeeeed...

(seriously though I'm not actually even sure if this is a joke or not lol)

I've been liking Jerkus because he's been making good sense to me throughout the game. Fetching back from when we were just getting into serious issues D1 Jerkus has been a slot who I feel is making logical conclusions that follow my own. He asked pertinent questions like "why Dabuz" when I was thinking the same, and denounced people like Omni and NH who at the time were making no sense. (yes I know they flipped town, but I know I disliked their play D1). Maybe I'm giving the slot too much credit because he's been giving me credit and having similar reads and I like that, but I've had him as town all the way through the game so far and haven't found any reason to doubt that yet.

I'd take a Soup flip over his because despite the time and relief we've given Soup, all he's been doing now is AtE and complain about the fact we label what he does AtE, which itself is whining AtE. (in before he blows up about me having this opinion, but it's true)

This is why SWFTown is bad. Right here. This paragraph. This is not to you Gheb but this is just the general idiotic mindset that costs town all these games. You tell me I'm inconsistent, lying, and contradicting myself, but in no way do you show the effort to back up your claims and it's like everyone thinks if you say things that sound convicting, They will eventually stick. This is where I come in and say no, **** you and your terrible argument. AtE requires an intention. What's my intention? What's my motive? I'm a scumbag? Wonderful! You got me. Now tell me why my AtE is indicative of a scumbag's behavior. What's my motive for posting so much? You can't answer this saying that I dont' want to die, because I haven't contested this logic and even up front said I want to live. What's your other big reason, hotshot? AtE? You mean the thing that made me the scumbag in the first place? Great! You still need to tell me my intention because this is like playing with circular logic. Meta? That's ****ing peachy. Do tell me how this is a convicting argument and why you're playing a confirmation bias against me. I'm not playing the way you expect me to and suddenly the alarms in your head start going off. I literally don't understand how I'm playing different. I feel as normal as ever and I've gone off on people plenty of other times in many other games.

I have to leave. I don't want to come back here and someone tell me I'm AtEing. Seriously, **** You. Like, honestly. From the bottom of my heart, **** You. This is not a newbie game. This is not a game where we do things on first conclusions, It's D2 with 1000 posts. You better give me more than this ****. So once again, **** You. And Hando this goes out to you too because apparently all I'm saying is AtE when I'm asking questions and trying to get people to out their purpose behind things instead of telling me I already know. This is one of the main reasons why I keep writing this because right now I'm playing on my own conclusions and literally this ****ing day hasn't given me anything. Maybe from DBear but he's obvious town. Jerkus is ****ing around and everyone else just decided to stop playing Mafia.

I'm done for now.

(and before Soup says "but why is AtE scummy" again, it's because it doesn't give us info or direction to work with while leaving you as a big question mark. Your motive is to live, but if you're scum there's also "as long as possible because it makes town a mess" tacked on. AtE is not a logical mafia concept to form our opinions on, it's just you pleading for your life. You'd do that as either faction who wants to live, but you haven't given us more to work with beyond pointing to Kary again who's perma V/LA so I'm starting to think it's scum motivated again)

He's ignoring the factors that made people think he was scum in the first place and is acting like all we ever had and ever will have is AtE because that's what he's been giving out and we've been grilling him for lately. But that simply isn't true (we've got his Dabuz push, his case on me/Kary/Dabuz, his connections with Kary in general [who I also find scummy]), and it's making me want him dead all over again for not pulling out of the nosedive. It feels to me like he's taking a cue from me and trying his hand at the flail I gave him in ERB, and I don't feel confident that he's going to stop any time soon. I'm also highly curious why Omni is reading him with surety after overtly claiming a scum read on D1 and now doesn't seem interested when he has the gun. Between those factors I'd love a Soup flip, it's a very good shot at scum (and in worst case scenario a player who's stuck in a huge rut now and isn't being helpful, sorry Soup)

There's just this mental disconnect between what I'd expect Soup to be able to logic out to all of us, and what I'm seeing. I'm seeing "Don't kill me", but also that he's expecting us to take that at face value as a town tell. There's plenty of room for doubt if you wish to doubt it, but if you put Jerkus vs Soup I'd take Soup and that's why.

Still waiting for death stances from:

Kary, Jdietz, Mastermind, Hando, and I think Jerkus.

Soup/Kary should go. Hando if you want to be edgy. Anyone else and I'll probably look at you funny.

(I'll be straight, I want you to own something here because D1 you sat on Dabuz and waved to the crowd. I'm hoping your explanation when making a choice is a very expressive one so we can get what you're thinking)

 

[Jdietz43]

EBWOP: "They" in the first paragraph meant NH (Nabe/Marshy). Obvs. Omni hasn't flipped yet.

 

[Rockin]

Due to how late it is, no flavor for this part here

Ranmaru replaces Kary

 

[ranmaru]

Sup guys. I'm half in reading.

 

[Omni]

why u want Kary dead again

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Omni, are you gonna post your own stances soon?

 

[Omni]

it would be soon if the people i just mentioned hurried and posted theirs. i said when D1 started that im reserving my stances for last, but this is getting silly.

 

[Jerkus]

Circus seems a bit busy recently because he hasn't posted in our hydra QT in a while so I am going to catch up where I left off and resond.

Btw to stop the silly thing I had been reading, this is the first time in actually posting in this game (J side). I only posted a funny pic to NH.

 

[Death Bear]

Catch up time.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Really sorry about lack of recent posting. After some thought I have been wound about this game and absolutely exhausted about it too. I will attempt to get back into this soon, I know there are some people who responded to me and the alike.

 

[Death Bear]

After a big reread, Omni currently stands as my lightest town lean. His push for Dabuz was bad, as was everyone's push for Dabuz (Marshy is gonna tell me off in endgame, I'm sure), but as a general concept, I do understand the idea of wanting to get rid of people that are viewed to be difficult to read ("liabilities," if you want to go with the current buzzword). Omni, in particular, is known for this, so that doesn't ring any alarms for me. What does bother me about Omni is that he apparently stuck to this concept despite already forming a scum read on at least one player (that was Soup). I would think that would trump lynching a null player for being null, so seeing him go that route while buddying NH gives me the willies. Seeing him talk about NH so much after his death and group himself together with the slot now that the slot has flipped town is also bothering me.

How do you feel about him dropping Soup ?
I'm going to tell you i'm not a fan of it, where do you stand ?

Also bothering me is the fact that I have not seen him push his biggest scumread from yesterDay, Soup. I would think he would have started the Day brandishing his gun at Soup to make him talk, but that didn't happen. I asked him which slot he most wanted to shoot at the start of the Day, and he blew that off saying he needs to reread. Currently unsure if I'm seeing Scumni trying to wriggle out of shooting his scum partner Soup, or if I'm seeing TownOmni getting levelheaded now that he's in charge of the big gun. Currently leaning toward the latter because I would think scum would relish this distancing opportunity.

Why ? If anything i as scum would be sorrily tempted to shoot soup if he were my partner who i bussed hard all D1. It's ironic you say he wasn't pushing his biggest scum read when guess who i just got through making a similar case on...

Ultimately, I'm currently going with the scenario that Omni is town and trying to make an informed decision while also being a little too attached to NH. It's not like we can execute him toDay anyway, sooooo. People should just keep an eye on him ToDay and make him answer for any shady **** on D3.

So his sudden hat drop of Soup doesn't make you pause and go hmmmm ?

This will be something I'll be able to get into more deeply when I go HAM on my scum reads a little later. Currently thinking that I let Soup's AtE get to me and that I need to not do that.

Haven't seen any meat yet. So tell me all about Hando, KarMaru, Mastermind and why they be the focus of your head canon today.

This seems like nitpicking, so allow me to nitpick back. First, as the post you quote shows, I actually didn't start the post with my Soup comments; I started with informing everyone that Gheb, Ditzy and B-dull were the only ones really on the right track (imo) and that people who think they're scum are either dumb or scum. Second...

The idea of voting for anyone in this game lost its appeal pretty much immediately. I think someone (BSP?) was trying to keep a vote tally for a while and be all democratic about this, but that idea dropped pretty quickly and I think that's fine. I didn't vote for him because a vote in this setup is exactly as useful as an FOS, and, generally speaking, I consider Fingers of Suspicion to be almost completely useless and do not use them.

Fair enough.

I committed to the read by stating it out in the open and giving brief reasoning for why I had it. That's the necessary part because that the only thing that a King can actually analyze and decide to agree with. A vote attached to that would have done little, I think. In fact, I think a lot of people elected to pretty much stop casting votes on D1.

True enough, i guess you could say i expected more of a push on your scum read soup.

And it's worth noting that, while I'm not sure exactly when this happens, there's a point during Day 1 where BSP seems to start leaning toward Soup for the execution, which was my favorite execution option at the time. Why would I try to build a wagon for Soup in that scenario? Since you are aware that Soup was one of my biggest scum reads on D1, I obviously must have made that read pretty clear, and the guy with the gun didn't need to be convinced by me. What would I gain from trying to convince other people?

So he could be shot and your read confirmed or denied ?
So you could have his alignment as a factor when you did a re-read, etc.

Eventually, BSP got into a one-on-one with Soup and seemed to decide that he didn't want to go that route. That was also about the time that I was starting to fall for Soup's AtE. I will admit that I did not push Soup as hard as I should have at that point, and that's one of the things that resulted in the Dabuz lynch basically becoming an inevitability. But that's a town mistake, not a scum slip.

Why did you fall for it and what has changed now ?

D1 by now.


The idea that "[my] play hasn't been centered around what [I've] been posting" is rich. It's like saying my driving hasn't been centered around the way I turn the steering wheel.

This post was actually a lot longer than I thought it was. I'm going to check on that other game I'm in real quick and that probably have myself a nice, long break.

Well i think your driving is off center.
Don't take this the wrong way but your sudden "I like soup more now" attitude is hard to swallow after how you went about D1. And i'm not so sure i see how you made the switch yet, beyond what your giving me.

 

[Handorin]

So I'm doing a bit of a reread, and something caught my eye. I didn't think much of it then because I was concentrating on Soup, but it really, really bothers me now.

If Soup is scum, he's scum with Kary.

If Mastermind is scum, he's scum with Hando.

Like Omni at one point after said, setting these absolutes is way off the charts and quite ambitious. He's grilling me because he's somehow certain I'm scum. Maaaaaaaybe Mastermind, but it's all dependent on my flip. Why? Where is this connection coming from. I don't see it. I've stated MM is town, I back that still. He's probably just salty that he can't read my pokerface or some junk, but that doesn't make him scum. MM, on the other Hand(o), is running the train on me and calls me scum. We aren't even really bickering with each other, we aren't agreeing, it's just some people are more in line with his opinion, and some mine. Umm, sooo, where's this connection he's making that states he's scum if I am? Same thing goes for Soup/Kary. He's gonna build this pressure on Soupscum to build his credit, say "haha, told you so", and continue on with a Kary ML and who knows whom else could be lynched.
This is really scummy. I don't know how to figure this in though. Soup is definitely on my list. I should maybe, just maybe, give Omni more doubt until I do my reread. Obviously, I can't do anything about him today because he won't kill himself. Anyone else you want to lynch, and a strong case has to be brought to my attention to convince me otherwise. Yes, including Mastermind/Kary as Jerkus seems to have figured out, somehow. Cause even they're town/nulltownish.

 

[Jerkus]

I'll start with the question Mastermind asked us and just go with reads from my side and why I feel certain things are the way they are. Though, me and Circus have very similar reads.

Our BSP is definitely a town read. Circus' town read on him is very strong while mine is just moderately strong but that's splitting hairs at this point. I just don't see scum intent behind his posts an god play as the king read much more of towny then scummy. Dabuz shot was absolutely terrible and me and Circus were talking about that in the QT but eh I can't really find myself holding it against BSP As scummy. I would have rather had someone like Soup shot yesterDay, but not toDay.

Soup, you told me to "get the paper bag off my head" when calling you dummy over scummy. So are you telling me to call you scummy over dummy, lol? I hope not. But dude, your play this game has been full of weird BS like you are playing without your head. You are raving at the mouth with AtE and angst that seems a little full of too much hot air. I can definitely see where my other half is coming from with you looking like a possible scum candidate and you definitely should not get a free pass at all, but for this half, you aren't a primary concern for me. I feel more you are having a bad game more than anything. I am happy Circus is deciding to take a step back for a bit on your slot. The thing that I need the most from you is you coming into this thread and reading/playing/acting upon things more objectively.

Mastermind, thank you for your soup read and posts. It kind of satiates me in terms of trying to read you but at the same time it doesn't at all. When reading your recent posts I got a feeling of emptiness when I was done reading which makes me worry. Your slot is one that has our eye. We want more from you because you are an uncomfortable null which we don't like considering the fact that you are EE and Ryker hasn't posted at all.

Can you go more into your "gut" Town read on Soup? For me, that reasoning was a bit cop outish and you didn't really explain much there.

Next point for me is something that I want to bring up is the thing I am feeling more than Circus but he can see where I am coming from. (basically my answer to his Mastermind+Hando scum team)

Speaking of Hando, don't really care for him this game. Nothing he post sticks and it's just whenever I think of Hando the thing that comes to mind is inactivity. I just remember getting this vibe of whenever Hando posts, he is only posting to defend himself.

My thing is Kary and Ditzy. For me, I feel one of these two hold scum. Both Circus and myself are leaning Kary for the scummy. During D1, I read their argument as a TvS argument with Kary looking a lot worse because of his random Dabuz push and the fact that hi posts have been scummy whereas Ditzy's have been fluffy till his most recent big post. Kary definitely for me is one of my strongest scum reads and who I want to die the most toDay out of anyone. For Ditzy, me and Circus are comfy giving a slight town read due to his play not giving any real scum vibes. If Kary were to flip town, Ditzy would move more to null for me.

DBear is a strong read for Circus which is town and I am leaning on him for that read because I have a hard time deciphering Rake's random posts as towny or scummy. His push on us, to me, is null because I could see him doing this as either alignment. The one thing I don't get is him asking Ditzy why he doesn't have a scum read on our slot because I am in the hydra. It feels he is trying to instigate something and it feels more like an RVS question than a real question at this point of the game. Basically what I feel with DBear is that they are putting on a big show with their posts. It's definitely there and flashy enough to get attention but it doesn't do much when you look past the smoke and mirrors of it all. DBear is null for this slot collectively but this side doesn't really care for them.

People who are cool with going as a hydra together would be these cool peeps:

Kary
Soup (his slot I personally don't want to see go but I get why Circus wants him and for a 50/50 read for me on dummy vs scummy, I don't really mind him going)
Mastermind
Hando

That's all I really have for now in terms of phone posting during class today but I have been read up and fully in this game. Just very very very very busy.

 

[Omni]

okay, awesome stuff so far. just need Mastermind and Ranmaru and i'll lay my ish out

 

[Jerkus]

Yeah just re-read Ditzy's most recent big post. He is definitely a town lean for me.

I don't really think I can answer your questions/qualms, DBear/Hando but I can try to and Circus can go more into them later on what he can directly answer better.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I don't feel I'm having a bad game. I've actually been content with my play just that I feel I need to yell at people to get them to listen at me. Kuz once told me that I lacked influence in the game and while my reads and the alike were good, I didn't do enough to get what needed to be done. This is what set me to be so wound, I was tired of getting ignored all the time about things but it seems even at the peak of walls and screaming at people, my point doesn't seem to be getting across. I'm frustrated. Not only in myself, but in the game. I'm frustrated that I come in here and see hardly any progression, I'm frustrated that J believes that I'm acting weird and having a bad game. I'm frustrated that Bardull literally ignored me at any attempts to read his slot. I'm frustrated that I have things to respond to. I'm frustrated that people don't understand my disposition despite wasting so much goddamn time and effort on making myself clear. I am generally frustrated.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

That's not an excuse, it's an explanation. I'm not writing this to excuse myself but apparently my intentions aren't clear this game and what's odd is that I have put the greatest amount of effort I've ever put into a game before.

 

[Death Bear]

Why do you not agree? Do you realize that Bardull disappeared throughout most of Day 1? The beginning consisted mainly of him randomly complaining about stuff and when he came back out of nowhere he was suddenly throwing dirt at me for not "protecting dabuz strongly enough" as if it was within my power or responsibility to do that [not to mention that dabuz' death doesn't bother me and I've made that clear a couple of times]. I also wonder what happened to his push against soup - now that he's no longer under pressure Bardull is nowhere to be seen to push him. I think that's pretty fishy, especially coupled with the fact that Bardull has placed this entire Day phase on his backburner and reduces his input to random claims that BSP is pro-town based on meta. If that's not the kind of case you people want from me then I can't do much more for you.

So that means Omni scum right ?
I mean he dropped soup too.

And Jerkus falls into that category, what you think about Jerkus ?

In the meantime: DB how do you feel about both Gheb and Bardull's position on Soup?

I see where they are coming from and find myself hard pressed to keep half white-knighting him when he isn't doing anything to satiate the read i gave him. I've said all game he feels off so when i see the cases you guys are making i'm finding myself point counter pointing them ineffectively. At the same time i'm hesitant to make a commitment on him without grilling him myself (which i need to get to).

wifom aside, i would have been bus'd the **** out of Soup if we were scum partners

And then your D1 happened.

In my head canon, you're typically much less swingy as town. I've seen you tunnel scum before, sure, but the scum reads you picked for D1 (Kary and Dabuz) seemed to both come out of nowhere, all at once. And you didn't tunnel them; tunneling them would imply that you pressured them and made arguments against them. You didn't do that. You decided to just agree with what had already been said about Kary, saying that you had just been skimming over Kary's posts until suddenly you realized she's probably scum, and you just banged the Dabuz drum over and over again just like everyone else on his wagon did. Generally, I feel like I can follow townSoup's train of thought, even when I disagree with it. In this case, I do agree with you on at least your Kary read, but still don't even really know what it is that specifically triggered you to it, nor have I seen you actually push it by engaging with Kary very much. You just reread posts that you apparently blocked out in your first read and had an epiphany? You basically just went from "No Kary read at all" to "Hm, I guess now that you mention it, she is kind of scummy..." to "Execute someone NOW! No more talking! Dabuz or Kary!" all in the course of, like, a page's worth of posts. It's insane.

But again, this is hard for me to parse, because it's not like this matches the scum meta I have for you either. Your scum meta suggests that, when you get frustrated, you don't get manic, you give up. I don't know how to place manic Soup. All I know is that gut said "that ain't normal" when I saw it.

To be quite honest, the deeper I get into this, the more I just want Mastermind, Hando and Kary to get in here so I can deal with them a bit. Actually, now that I think of it, I think there was one thing I wanted to get to in Hando's last post, but I was distracted by other things.

@DeathBear: You are putting too much emphasis on the push that I've already told you a couple of times may not be coming (it almost certainly isn't at this point; I feel I've made my beef with Soup clear enough in my last few posts and won't feel like making a big wall-case-of-death against him unless something I find in my further rereading pushes me to do so). I think I responded to your wall against me quite sufficiently and you haven't explained what you find so unacceptable about my answers yet, so I'm forced to assume you don't have any real qualms with them. The sooner you can put aside your paranoia and accept that I'm town, the easier this whole process will be.

handled and handled. Also kary is a guy. How people keep saying she is shocking.

DBear is a strong read for Circus which is town and I am leaning on him for that read because I have a hard time deciphering Rake's random posts as towny or scummy. His push on us, to me, is null because I could see him doing this as either alignment. The one thing I don't get is him asking Ditzy why he doesn't have a scum read on our slot because I am in the hydra. It feels he is trying to instigate something and it feels more like an RVS question than a real question at this point of the game. Basically what I feel with DBear is that they are putting on a big show with their posts. It's definitely there and flashy enough to get attention but it doesn't do much when you look past the smoke and mirrors of it all. DBear is null for this slot collectively but this side doesn't really care for them.

Please do continue.

Also very few of my posts have been random, if you want me to explain them, then please ask instead of sideswiping my slot. Yes i am trying to instigate something. How does knowing this make you feel about me ? Why don't my posts do much exactly ? Your going to have to do a better job of explaining your read than : there's a lot of smoke and mirrors that i have neither brought up nor will , and their posts are really flashy but don't have much meat. It seems moreso like your trying to blanket my play as random so people don't take me seriously than actually giving out a legit read on my slot.

I find myself almost taking whatever your read on us is as OMGUS J, if you don't like what i'm doing , then get Jerkus in here and tell him to get at us, or do it yourself, instead of letting your hydra sit on its hands like it did D1.

Also saying : "I can't decipher Rake's posts" is weak sauce, if you can't judge intent then you follow up on it.

What about Ryu's posts ? This isn't Rake your reading, it's both of us.

 

[Jerkus]

So I'm doing a bit of a reread, and something caught my eye. I didn't think much of it then because I was concentrating on Soup, but it really, really bothers me now.

Like Omni at one point after said, setting these absolutes is way off the charts and quite ambitious. He's grilling me because he's somehow certain I'm scum. Maaaaaaaybe Mastermind, but it's all dependent on my flip. Why? Where is this connection coming from. I don't see it. I've stated MM is town, I back that still. He's probably just salty that he can't read my pokerface or some junk, but that doesn't make him scum. MM, on the other Hand(o), is running the train on me and calls me scum. We aren't even really bickering with each other, we aren't agreeing, it's just some people are more in line with his opinion, and some mine. Umm, sooo, where's this connection he's making that states he's scum if I am?

This I actually know how to answer. The connection is in Mastermind's push on you. It came out of nowhere and read more like a bus attempt early game when the Dabuz wagon was going on. They have continued to push you but have not really offered anything new to your slot w.r.t. their scum-read because of the way things have developed. With your response to their case/push on you, it reads more team like. You are responding to them really lightly and keep saying you have MM as town. You say they are town for their push on you and I know EE definitely cannot disagree with this logic because he uses it himself but it is much more likely for a scummy to try and satiate his main attacker by calling them town rather than scum. Now your slots both collectively have not done much of anything till recently besides get into a tiny tiff between your slots which definitely leaves a connection because it's the most notable thing either of your slots have done. I.E. MM pushing you and you defending from MM.

Circus can go more into it later but his train of thought makes sense.

 

[Jerkus]

Please do continue.

Also very few of my posts have been random, if you want me to explain them, then please ask instead of sideswiping my slot. Yes i am trying to instigate something. How does knowing this make you feel about me ? Why don't my posts do much exactly ? Your going to have to do a better job of explaining your read than : there's a lot of smoke and mirrors that i have neither brought up nor will , and their posts are really flashy but don't have much meat. It seems moreso like your trying to blanket my play as random so people don't take me seriously than actually giving out a legit read on my slot.

Sideswiping? All I really did was say your push on us was something that does not make much sense to me and reads as random. Yes, your posts are random to me because you post in a stream of consciousness style which makes it hard to decipher was exactly is going on.

I already knew you were trying to instigate something so it doesn't really do much for me even after you admitting it. The reason your posts don't do much is because you are saying a lot of words but your words don't amount to much do far in terms of this game. I mean look, you are asking questions that inevitably don't go anywhere while also remaining to not necessarily help your push.

I also did give you a read on your slot and didn't blanket anything, Rake. Circus has a strong town read on you while I have a null which makes you a town lean. Collectively it may, as I said before be a null read but Circus has you as strong town.

I find myself almost taking whatever your read on us is as OMGUS J, if you don't like what i'm doing , then get Jerkus in here and tell him to get at us, or do it yourself, instead of letting your hydra sit on its hands like it did D1.

How is it an OMGUS if I am not even calling you scum...? I also did get at you already and let you know what is going on with the time I have. Also this hydra did not at all sit on their hands D1 and that is just a blatant fallacy in your argument.

Also saying : "I can't decipher Rake's posts" is weak sauce, if you can't judge intent then you follow up on it.

What about Ryu's posts ? This isn't Rake your reading, it's both of us.

Point out to me where Ryu has actually posted because I have been reading them as purely Rake based on Ryu posting off hydra to just comment here or there. Also you announce that it is you posting which makes me even believe its just you posting like it has been solely Circus posting with My sideline play till now.

I have also always expressed having trouble reading you Rake. Your intent just never reads correct for me when Ido try and gauge your intent in games so I am taking a different approach.

 

[Death Bear]

/handling response later

Ryu's posts have the lucario's and dogs in them :obv:

 

[Death Bear]

he has others scattered about but i'm like 90% sure every single one of his posts has some sort of dog / lucario thing in it

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So that means Omni scum right ?
I mean he dropped soup too.

And Jerkus falls into that category, what you think about Jerkus ?

Omni is definitely scummy in my book and I can see him in a Soup / Kary / Omni team. Keep in mind though that Omni hasn't voiced his opinions from toDay yet so it's hard to say where his head is at right now. We'll see where things go soon enough because as far as I can see it's only a question of Mastermind showing up and Ranmaru reading before Omni finally lays out his thought process and I can form a more educated opinion based on that.

Jerkus I liked a lot on D1 because a lot of our reads lined up. I didn't realize that Jerkus stopped caring about soup all that much though. Then again, Circus and J are rather easy to affect with AtE outbursts so I wouldn't be surprised if they simply found themselves hooked by soup raging like a madman. It's not a good tell in my opinion and I wouldn't hold it against Jerkus at this point [but I'll keep it in the back of my mind from now on]. I generally like him a lot less toDay but his stance on soup isn't really the reason for it. I might go into that a little later but I don't think Jerkus' slot takes a lot of priority right now - at least for me.