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Mass Effect (King Maker) - Glorious Way to End the Day. Mafia Wins!

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
BRoomer
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I will say I can respect the fact you aren't trying to dress up your opinion/reasoning on the Dabuz lynch though Omni. I may not agree with it, but I can respect the way it's postulated.


why thank you
 

#HBC | Kary

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well guys here's a catchup post

apologies to anyone who doesn't like my answers
not least because you're probably town tying yourself in knots unnecessarily

If by hold-up, you mean me responding to your questions? I was playing LOL all day yesterday until I made the post you responded to. (Double IP weekend :p)
So it was important that I answered your questions,
before you answered mine
because you were busy?
:glare:

oh my god Kary/Dabuz is so ****ing obvious right now and JDietz is the ****ing peanut butter of this scum sandwich
Explain why Kary would choose to super-push Dabuz D1, successfully putting himself and his scumbuddy in the spotlight. Realise you're an idiot, and that I'm not buddies with dabuz.
You're apparently scumreading me based on the fact that my position on dabuz wasn't consistent. That's great, except that you're wrong, because it has always been 'needlessly antagonize' someone who I think might reasonably be scum. Sometimes that means constantly repeating a scumread over and over, even when [because I'm town, and don't just know alignments] I can't be sure.

I'm going to say kary > dabuz preferably as kary has had more interactions to work with especially with dabuz in perticular
haha and you just said I had nothing to push you on. you don't seem to be making any effort to read either of our slots, and yet surprise you want me (being the stronger, more active player)

And now we have No Hetero basically white-knighting Kary through attacking Jerkus and anyone else vocally against my wagon.
dabuz attacks NH's play, which is interesting because it shows a remarkable lack of meta. Can't decide if this is faking a convenient scumread or genuine lost-at-sea newbiness.

You think I'm scum but can't be sure for obvious reasons. Now you think I'm scum until I prove you wrong, which basically means you're "sure" I'm scum. WTF is it? Either I'm def. scum to you or you're not sure, not both.
no I think it means I'm gonna keep thinking you're scum, for the existing reasons I have, until something comes along to change my mind. doesn't mean i'm sure, but i can see how you might get the two confused

What is your read on Jdietz? Why?
scum
gutscum

What is your opinion on Omni's play so far? In particular, are you fine with him being ready for me to be executed for being dumb or a liability in his eyes?
fine, and fine

Don't like the bolded, don't understand your need to push something so hard if you weren't ready to the end the day, looking at your early posts I could have sworn you'd be okay with Dabuz getting lynched. Why not?
don't understand trying to get reads?
can't follow my posts?
no understanding of how to play a good D1, or my meta?

you've committed the cardinal sin of admitting that you don't understand my play, and then scumreading me because of it. congrats, you got it wrong, GJ

But they don't deserve the same treatment you gave Bardull and Dabuz?
correct; not on my list of people to needlessly antagonize. Only really interested in pushing one slot at a time.


Do you feel your actions had an effect? I certainly didn't.
blah blah you're an imbecile. we wouldn't be having this conversation if I hadn't taken those actions, congrats, I got a read on you, among others, GG.

In literally the next post you made, you went from scum read to scum vibe. I don’t even have to ask you what made you change your mind, because nothing could have.
I'm scumreading him because I have a scum vibe from him. It's not a change in the strength of the read, it's an explanation of the basis of the read.


Your first section is false. You’re obviously not sure whether or not Dabuz is scum as demonstrated above. You just want his lynch without being sure. I’m not even going to scrounge up all the posts you made telling people to vote for Dabuz.
nope. just nope. you realize that votes don't count, therefore calling for them is the epitome of trying to get reactions from people?

You also say that it’s too early to expect you to have reads on Dabuz’s flip – this confirms that you haven’t really thought the scum read out. Also, notice that you say the underlined when you’ve already told Dabuz you think he’s scum.
congrats my scumread isn't thought out because i'm not even certain he's scum yet.

Can you explain this?
you're looking at the face value of each of my statements for any sort of logical inconsistency when you should be asking yourself whether it feels like i'm being scummy, or whether my play actually makes any sense as scum.

but whatever, as long as you don't **** up toDay I don't really mind

also, you dare execute anyone without waiting and taking it through beforehand,
I will personally frown.

imo we trade kary / dabuz dying for marshy outing his shiz throughout the rest of the game, if he doesn't follow through we execute him /obv
not sure if serious. gonna assume you're not so i don't have to scumread you based on suggesting a policy lynch


Jdietz is fine where he is right now.[/COLOR]
note to self; this is not a stance

I'm currently wondering why Soup flip-flopped his stance on Kary so suddenly (will get around to quoting), as well as why NH is bashing his head against Jerkus (who I feel is on point).
get back in the shadows, you. no-one needs your idle train of thought.

Omni isn't playing this game serious, end of story. He only shows pathetic excuses to not actually hunt scum. Kill him before he gets this town killed.
or just ignore him. not killing a slot just because you disagree with them.

Omni, I'm not at a comp so I can't delve into that completely

But let me get this straight

Soup is more scummy than Dabuz, but Dabuz is the play for today?
town-tell here

Nobody who's on the dabuz wagon is in a position to call my argument flimsy.
textbook ad hominem
GJ

Gheb, B-dull and Jditzy are the only ones making any sense in here. Anyone who thinks any of those slots are scum right now isn't using their head (or is scum).
bwahahahahaha
now I have to decide whether this is legit :rolleyes:

wouldn't hurt for you to elaborate on these reads, either.

Dabuz is not the play. He is flat null.
I like that you have this opinion.

I would sooner see any one of the Dabuz wagoners go toDay before Dabuz. No Hetero, Soup, Omni and Kary can all eat a bullet for all I care (in roughly that order, I think, but the Day is young).
With you again, fair enough... wait, what? Did you just forget how to read people, or do you actually think everyone on the dabuz waggon is scum? nevermind, don't answer that.

With many people having near zero attempts at trying to read him.
wow this seems rich, given you're already arguing who's a better lynch based on connections, and i've not actually seen a great deal in terms of you trying to read me/dabuz. I remember you made a case, then unvoted me, but appaz i'm still scum :/

Kary, if I were to put up the only two candidates to be shot today as Gheb and Omni, who would you want gone?
Initial reaction was Gheb
Probably explained by my thought process being closer to Omni's, and him feeling more pro-town in his approach, and I think i'd be able to read him better.

**** not shooting Soup
:rolleyes:

The short of it: people committing to where they'd go after a Dabuz flip isn't anti-town and is actually a smart thing for the people gunning for Dabuz to do.
I don't really like that this is what you drop into the thread to argue about. But whatever. IMO this is exactly the sort of question that gives scum ammo to mess you about.

lmao JDietz is scum with Kary hahahah
Oh yeah I forgot to mention, you should perhaps learn to read when one player is trying to position themselves relative to another, and when two players are both doing that. I will admit Ditzy may be scum positioning relative to me, but that doesn't make me scum.

Nvm, Soup can go. Put him behind Bardull.
you only get so many lynches. i'm looking forward to hearing what EE thinks about the shape of the game overall.

scumteam is lookin like dabuz/soup/bardull with a little Jerk as a safety net in there for good measure. more later. for now you get my shtick
seriously think dabuz/soup are aligned? don't be lazy now.

PS: I'd give any money Soup and Kary are scumbuddies, you don't flip from not noticing anything wrong with Kary's play, to saying it's suspicious when it starts looking like Kary might be the play, back to chainsaw defense mode when Dabuz is back in session for no reason.
wow. read what I just wrote above to soup w.r.t. positioning.

Seriously, is everyone just not noticing this or something?
or are they maybe scum agreeing with a convenient theory
:embarrass:

Because literally the only reason to be hardbodying Dabuz (especially at that point of the game) was if you were smoking extra crack or had an ulterior motive to quick lynch him. Your "obvtown" (NH, yourself, Kary, Omni) was literally my scum-list and largely still is. How about backing up some of those "obvtown" claims first before you start preaching.
gutscum here

Agree 100%
welp

JD, you have Soup as scum, why didn't he just see something he agreed with an make a jump on it ?
I really like some of these questions/observations this game, but I don't feel like you're actively pushing things to find scum. I don't get it, is this a conscious playstyle thing?

Kary: kary is off this game and a gut scum read that my head agrees with, his swapping on dabuz being a lsecondary factor as stated before that plus the manner he voted me when i didn't jump dabuz with him, on first read his substantiation on why he did that was weak.
you know this is weak RVS stuff
or you're scum, i can't decide

well damn that was kinda tedious all in all
you want anything more from me, please make it concise.
not going to take anyone seriously who continues to just sit on a scumread of me, so good luck with that.

yeah can't be bothered to push anything right now
 

#HBC | Kary

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Also, remember that he specifically said Kary had stances, not just one.
I just said this in my big post, but you're reading too much into the face value of people's posts, expecting to catch scum based on the way they word things or whatever. This is specifically not reading for intentions, and so not particularly likely to catch you scum.

/yeahwowdefendingsoup
/oryoucouldplaywell
 

Death Bear

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kary, explain your head to me this game.

How long do you plan to push dabuz and what do you make of what he said wrt gheb
 

#HBC | Kary

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weak =/= innacurate
weak = more likely to be innacurate

my point is that you should be working from the evidence to the conclusion that i'm scum, not the other way round, and that your evidence is not very good

im not even trying to argue the conclusion because i don't feel like arguing my towniness

also im trying to read you through the medium of making you do some legwork
 

Death Bear

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your more likely to get a better read on the Rake side by pushing me on my gut reads , that way i can judge your intent and have the chance to idea bounce what your postulating against the gut reads i fell more strongly about.

And that way you can see where my / head gut is a use that

/just saying
 

#HBC | Kary

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kary, explain your head to me this game.

How long do you plan to push dabuz and what do you make of what he said wrt gheb
stop pretending to try and read me :glare:
anyways

idk because I skimmed it, but if dabuz is scum it's a bit of an weird tangent to take because no-one wants gheb dead toDay. If dabuz was the only guy in the firing line it could be trying to WIFOM incriminate Gheb, but that's not the case. So the feel of the post itself, plus the length of the post, suggests its more likely to be town dabuz than scumdabuz

but it is just one post unless i missed something

haven't 100% decided what to make of dabuz stepping up his game recently.
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
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first time i paid attention to kary all game. glad i did. awesome post.
 

Death Bear

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wow that sentence was incomplete.

Your more likely to be able to judge my intent by pushing me on my gut reads which a liable to change given that i often make logic jumps. what you have to decide is how i follow through on my gut and if the evidence i provide not only makes sense to you, but makes sense in the scope of my gut read on that player.
 

#HBC | Kary

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your more likely to get a better read on the Rake side by pushing me on my gut reads , that way i can judge your intent and have the chance to idea bounce what your postulating against the gut reads i fell more strongly about.

And that way you can see where my / head gut is a use that

/just saying
i barely understand this

and i don't remember you elaborating on your gut read, just a long string of little things you didn't like (but not why exactly)

so can't decide whether you're scum or just your gut is terrible
 

Death Bear

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yeah so ask me why i don't like them then lol.

Be proactive townKary so that we don't end up repeating the wall
 

Death Bear

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and by we, i mean me ML'ing and not going with a gut read that turns out to be accurate /old salt
 

Death Bear

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I really like some of these questions/observations this game, but I don't feel like you're actively pushing things to find scum. I don't get it, is this a conscious playstyle thing?
no idea why you get that feel. I'm pushing where i'm interested and my interest comes and goes in waves with some slots so /shrug

what gives you that feeling in particular ? are there other posts that give you that same feeling or is it just a broad "as a general synopsis of your posts thus far, this is how i've felt"

I'm going to refer you to the same post i gave soup when he asked what was up though, and maybe that'll help you understand, if not feel free to go third degree on me as i have quite a bit of time on my hands being ahead in everything.
 

Death Bear

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Like i said elsewhere i'm using my gut moreso in this game. Downside to this is there's no set time as to when i have a snap of an idea and decide to roll with it. That considered i'm also trying to keep my head up to speed with my gut reads and have substantiation as in past games I haven't been able to explain gut reads well at all, I know why i have them of course, but I have legitimate issues making it clear to others as to why. [see: kevmo in Utrik'd, Kantrip in BAM]

I would think that's a large reason as to why my intent is harder to pick up on this game.

I'm not sure if it's i'm being more preserved so much as i'm letting my gut do what it does and act on it then and hopefully i'm able to make my intentions clearer when I make that push.

As for my intentions right now, I'm kind of letting this "RVS"stage play out and seeing if anything interests me , speaking of,right now I'm comfortable with a Unvote/B].

Now i gotta ask you soup, who are you feeling right now ? I don't care if it's a "i just want to see a little more out of" or whatever, because i find myself at an impasse with my fake vote as well. I need an idea bounce for lack of more accurate terms.





Rake, you're doing that thing where I pinned you in G3S. You're over compensating your posts again. Give me a definitive stance and try to avoid that as I'm probably going to drill you if you keep doing it.



Vig bardull
Lynch dabuz

That's my head canon right now. Not really anyone else who has posted has really interested me. I know Omni finally responded to some things though so let me get to that.
drill me all you like soup btw, i don't see overcompensation in that post, you asked me what was up and i gave you the down low.
there you go kary.
 

No Hetero

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Not much meta specific. His posting style is in line with having the Kary aligned attribute in exuberance, but I can't find a good reason for the rest of the way he's played so far. When we were partners we were usually trying to work towards a goal of mischief, so as best I can figure this is him moving towards early directionless discussion and maybe a D1 mislynch since I'm not buying that much dedication to pressure was purely RVS motivated.
That seems a little predictive. Kary didn't plan any mislynches in Tekken?
 

No Hetero

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Here's what I'm thinking:

Soup told me that Kary had definite stances. The only non-scummy way that he could come to this conclusion is that he actually paid attention to Kary's posts.

I point out to him that Kary has only made 1 stance, and that was Bardull trying too hard. From this, we already know

1) the stance wasn't legitimate
2) he wasn't reading closely
3) he was fine with validating Kary without paying attention


After this, Soup says I'm right, and then turns around and starts questioning Kary about things that were in plain view before I called him out on his error.


Rake, I'll admit, you do have a point. Maybe he did see something he agreed with. The main problem for me is that he outed his incorrect stance in the first place, because that tells me that he wasn't paying attention.
This back-and-forth + Ryker earlier is convincing me I haven't been paying enough attention to Soup. Is this how it went down in your eyes, Rake?
 

No Hetero

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Omni, what's your read on me? I probably missed it. Read on Gheb as well? Cheers.
 

Death Bear

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do it kary.

come at me with your best stuff.

I will absolutely go head to head with you for as long as it takes you to figure out whatever it is you need to.
 

Death Bear

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Nabe: my notes so far & up to date:

alright, early soup felt like he was just there for a while and i found myself flip flopping between disinterested town who hasn't found something to push and laid back scum lazing back and letting town run around.

his thing with bardull was interesting in terms of interactions but it never felt like soup was going anywhere with it (if that makes any sense)

his questioning on me was short, but i felt that soup just dropping made me feel odd, but it ended up being a null tell.

his push for info out of BSP made me give him a small town lean at that time because it seemed to me like he was trying to help BSP gather his own thoughts moreso than soup trying to
force his opinion on BSP. I also liked him holding bsp on the mastermind thing, even with what BSP has been saying about soups switch, i felt soup thus far has explained that switch well.
Soup also forced Omni at a point to out his suspicions, this doesn't seem like something he would do as scum, unless he was very very confident, something i haven't been picking up from soups intent so far.

I liked soups 455, it echoes my feelings at this point on Kary and the timing didn't feel off.

His jump on kary felt more towny then scummy and all his shouting at / around and getting on BSP i wrote down as a flat null initially because i've seen him take that attitude before as scum and if i recall right as town as well.

but right now the thing sticking out to me is his switch back, and how he's gone back to dabuz and now in combo with JD. which i'd like him to elaborate on.

So right now i'm giving him a null-small town lean with a note to keep an eye on where his pushes go and his substantiation on them.
...

You are aware that Soup wasn't even batting an eye at Kary until I pointed out to him that he incorrectly stated Kary had "made definitive stances" up to a point.

The timing is 100% off. He incorrectly stated something about the slot, and then 180'd on it after I pointed out the error.
BSP, wrt eyelashes:

i don't see it that way, explain why he couldn't have just seen something he agreed with
gut reads:

Soup is off-pace and i can't figure out why, however the null small town lean still applies as above, although of all my gut reads this one is most liable to change depending on flips. Some of what he's done as shown by BSP have been questionable and i'd like to see Soup be grilled on it further. I'll probably get around to asking soup about some of my feelings on him.

Gheb: I still have those disney vibes kicking around in my head, but i can see where he's coming from on NH, i don't agree with it, but i think i can see the logic behind it.

JD: town vibes after his latest posts, earlier when soup had thrown JD in with kary / dabuz i aired my doubts right there to soup about JD being in that group of scummers and i still disagree with him being in that group. Soup's points didn't really sway me as i recall when he talked about JD scum

Bard : town vibes , his early gun stuff is non telling , his back and forth with soup had put him above soup in my reads at that point , his interactions haven't seemed off like they were in BAM and he hasn't been dropping the same sort of baseless things he did there.

BSP: town, more confident on this with how BSP is pushing his scum reads right now, how he held his ground during the hbc calls, and his response to my concern about him walking the line

NH: it's marshy and he looks a lot like he did in the wall, admittedly when i read the wall i made a point of not differentiating between you and marshy's posts so i could read them without bias, doing that this time has made me feel null town on you, marshy's push on dabuz may be unsubstantiated , but i don't find myself agreeing with gheb that marshy is scum over it
Here's what I'm thinking:

Soup told me that Kary had definite stances. The only non-scummy way that he could come to this conclusion is that he actually paid attention to Kary's posts.

I point out to him that Kary has only made 1 stance, and that was Bardull trying too hard. From this, we already know

1) the stance wasn't legitimate
2) he wasn't reading closely
3) he was fine with validating Kary without paying attention


After this, Soup says I'm right, and then turns around and starts questioning Kary about things that were in plain view before I called him out on his error.


Rake, I'll admit, you do have a point. Maybe he did see something he agreed with. The main problem for me is that he outed his incorrect stance in the first place, because that tells me that he wasn't paying attention.
that is a fair point BSP, so let's talk about , let's say Soup is scum for a moment, how does that change your dabuz read ? Is he easy bussable scum ? Is he easy Ml town ?

Let's say you execute him , where do you look on scumSoup and on townSoup ?
in addition , How does soup owning up to skimming play into this, could he have felt that Kary's stance on Bardull was legit and he had put kary down as not worth his interest until the points you had brought up made him reconsider ?
This back-and-forth + Ryker earlier is convincing me I haven't been paying enough attention to Soup. Is this how it went down in your eyes, Rake?
see the above
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
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i dont have a strong read on you or Gheb

@you: im not sure if you're agreeing with most of the things i've said or thought because we're actually on the same page or you're pulling a fast one over me. the marshy side of you seems incredibly authentic, however, i know how easily i can be manipulated via people simply agreeing with my stances.

i didnt like that you felt dabuz was acting scummy, but i felt more comfortable when your reasoning was scumgut read because that was similar to my own. the same does not apply to Soup/anyone else who actually had scum reads on Dabuz outside of policy/gut.

@in regars to gheb: seriously the spawn of Overswarm and Cello with a de-evolutionized Marshy stem cell. i dont like his play. i think his arguments are half-*****. i think his statements are flimsy and incomplete. and the particular points he's attacking lean more toward nulls on both our cases than scum. i expect more but because i've been gone so long i'm can't tell if this is just the limit that Gheb has grown too or he's purposely playing P.O.'d scum who easily tailgates on players like us that don't follow standard mafia protocol.

im more inclined to like jerkus' play and i dont like that he's okay with Gheb. i actually understand why Gheb is frustrated but the problem is that he's actually trying to derive "scum" from our very consistent type play.

tl;dr: he's the extreme dumb/scum version of Dabuz. i think he's tunneling, but there are much more better picks than him at the moment so *shrug* i've put the kid on timeout
 

Death Bear

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because i'm not worried about why you find me grody in the least, i've had my substantiations and i stand by every push i have made thus far in the game. i have no issue going into why / how i came to my conclusions and will continue to push where i like , when i like , so long as the avenue seems legitimate and will help me (and ryu by proxy) to get scum.

i stand by my playstyle choice this game 100% and will not hesitate to go after people who have done something worth questioning , and i have 0 issue explaining what i've done to the best of my ability and will continue to hunt scum all day everyday, so help me gorf
 

Omni

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@no hetero: i also haven't asked for your read on me similar to how i haven't asked kary for his read on me (or maybe i did, but i dont think so). anyone who has been latching onto the dabuz train with me gets my auto-graces, but if Dabuz did flip scum i could easily pinpoint who snuck onto the train and those who actually paid tickets to ride aboard
 

#HBC | Kary

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because i'm not worried about why you find me grody in the least, i've had my substantiations and i stand by every push i have made thus far in the game. i have no issue going into why / how i came to my conclusions and will continue to push where i like , when i like , so long as the avenue seems legitimate and will help me (and ryu by proxy) to get scum.
yeah but if i'm town then i'm wasting my time in pushing you, because you're town

It's nothing to do with whether you're worried about people coming at you.

It's about why you would want me to 'come at you' in the first place, what your pro-town motivation for that is.
 

Death Bear

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you can get a read of it , who joins you, who doesn't .
How they join you , when , are they piling on by repeating your points but never contributing their own.

How about the people not joining you, why are they not joining , what about interaction makes them feel it's TvT, are they not joining you for a legitimate reason, how are they getting a town read from me and you ? How do they substantiate that read and how does our interaction play into their other reads.
 

Death Bear

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example: PJB came at me in BAM based on weak reasoning, i explained everything clearly and concisely , scumDell then jumped my wagon and proceeded to just pile on baseless statements which echoed small quips he had made about my slot earlier combined with buddying PJB's flawed logic, he provided enough accusations that more people who were clearly sheeping bardull's "strong town" presence leapt on .During this time i pinned Riddle and Bardull as the remaining scum and made a legitimate case against bardull , and hammered away at play of his which i found scummy that obv-town BSP proceeded to hammer bardull with until he ended up getting QL'd , meanwhile i washammered by obv-town vinyl after being piled on by obv-town JD and dumb-mason-town tako.
 
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