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Mass Effect (King Maker) - Glorious Way to End the Day. Mafia Wins!
- Thread starter Rockin
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Death Bear
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i admit soupScum could do it , but like i said on first read i didn't take it that way
...
You are aware that Soup wasn't even batting an eye at Kary until I pointed out to him that he incorrectly stated Kary had "made definitive stances" up to a point.
The timing is 100% off. He incorrectly stated something about the slot, and then 180'd on it after I pointed out the error.
Death Bear
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no, your vote on him omni, i'll go find it then talk about my gut
Death Bear
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BSP, wrt eyelashes:
i don't see it that way, explain why he couldn't have just seen something he agreed with
i don't see it that way, explain why he couldn't have just seen something he agreed with
I've had a slightly negative opinion of him this game so far between backing a Dabuz push and squabbling with Soup/Gheb/Jerkus(?). I'd have to look more into him to pinpoint a harder stance than that, I've been mostly concerned with what's been directly in front of my plate at the moment.Dietz, what do you think about Omni. His slot hasn't been talked about nearly enough.
Not much meta specific. His posting style is in line with having the Kary aligned attribute in exuberance, but I can't find a good reason for the rest of the way he's played so far. When we were partners we were usually trying to work towards a goal of mischief, so as best I can figure this is him moving towards early directionless discussion and maybe a D1 mislynch since I'm not buying that much dedication to pressure was purely RVS motivated.
Death Bear
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JD, you have Soup as scum, why didn't he just see something he agreed with an make a jump on it ?
No Hetero
marshy|nabe
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can we cuddle and watch a movie afterwards?Back in 30 with some popcorn
Death Bear
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gut reads:
Soup is off-pace and i can't figure out why, however the null small town lean still applies as above, although of all my gut reads this one is most liable to change depending on flips. Some of what he's done as shown by BSP have been questionable and i'd like to see Soup be grilled on it further. I'll probably get around to asking soup about some of my feelings on him.
Gheb: I still have those disney vibes kicking around in my head, but i can see where he's coming from on NH, i don't agree with it, but i think i can see the logic behind it.
JD: town vibes after his latest posts, earlier when soup had thrown JD in with kary / dabuz i aired my doubts right there to soup about JD being in that group of scummers and i still disagree with him being in that group. Soup's points didn't really sway me as i recall when he talked about JD scum
Bard : town vibes , his early gun stuff is non telling , his back and forth with soup had put him above soup in my reads at that point , his interactions haven't seemed off like they were in BAM and he hasn't been dropping the same sort of baseless things he did there.
BSP: town, more confident on this with how BSP is pushing his scum reads right now, how he held his ground during the hbc calls, and his response to my concern about him walking the line
NH: it's marshy and he looks a lot like he did in the wall, admittedly when i read the wall i made a point of not differentiating between you and marshy's posts so i could read them without bias, doing that this time has made me feel null town on you, marshy's push on dabuz may be unsubstantiated , but i don't find myself agreeing with gheb that marshy is scum over it
Soup is off-pace and i can't figure out why, however the null small town lean still applies as above, although of all my gut reads this one is most liable to change depending on flips. Some of what he's done as shown by BSP have been questionable and i'd like to see Soup be grilled on it further. I'll probably get around to asking soup about some of my feelings on him.
Gheb: I still have those disney vibes kicking around in my head, but i can see where he's coming from on NH, i don't agree with it, but i think i can see the logic behind it.
JD: town vibes after his latest posts, earlier when soup had thrown JD in with kary / dabuz i aired my doubts right there to soup about JD being in that group of scummers and i still disagree with him being in that group. Soup's points didn't really sway me as i recall when he talked about JD scum
Bard : town vibes , his early gun stuff is non telling , his back and forth with soup had put him above soup in my reads at that point , his interactions haven't seemed off like they were in BAM and he hasn't been dropping the same sort of baseless things he did there.
BSP: town, more confident on this with how BSP is pushing his scum reads right now, how he held his ground during the hbc calls, and his response to my concern about him walking the line
NH: it's marshy and he looks a lot like he did in the wall, admittedly when i read the wall i made a point of not differentiating between you and marshy's posts so i could read them without bias, doing that this time has made me feel null town on you, marshy's push on dabuz may be unsubstantiated , but i don't find myself agreeing with gheb that marshy is scum over it
Because he went on to make that hilarious case on me around it as well, it doesn't make any sense otherwise. When things seem like they don't make sense in mafia I usually assume there's a scum involved.
The way I see it, first Soup ignored Kary (which I find was difficult), then had a revelation and denounced his obvious scum when the issue looked like it was going to be pushed, then backed off like it wasn't on his priories in favor of Dabuz when it lifted, then back to... I'm not even sure what to call his latest play. There's a major discrepency between his play and the response he gave to me when I asked how I felt about him of:
Death Bear
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Omni: town lean as well. gheb's meta argument hasn't swayed me really and during my own small instances with him i've felt like his answers have lined up with what he's posting. him wanting dabuz over his stronger scum read of soup isnt that telling to me as gheb seems to think it is, ryu seems to have meta that omni does this and i'll take to ryu about that later
Kary: kary is off this game and a gut scum read that my head agrees with, his swapping on dabuz being a lsecondary factor as stated before that plus the manner he voted me when i didn't jump dabuz with him, on first read his substantiation on why he did that was weak. His switching makes me get necromafia kary feelings as i said before. I also dont' see his reads growing at all beyond dabuz and him taking small jabs at me like how i was asking pointless questions when it was clear what i was asking didn't feel like town kary , because he never took time out to do things that way in the wall. He also just seems to be sitting on dabuz, even up to his recent posts which BSP pulled up that slip in(still not taking the slip as such a huge thing, but it effects the read non the less) and like i said recently his early D1 has made me feel like he was trying to appear townie , i think i highlighted a post of his earlier where i talk about why his early game doesn't feel like what he's trying to pass it off as
Kary: kary is off this game and a gut scum read that my head agrees with, his swapping on dabuz being a lsecondary factor as stated before that plus the manner he voted me when i didn't jump dabuz with him, on first read his substantiation on why he did that was weak. His switching makes me get necromafia kary feelings as i said before. I also dont' see his reads growing at all beyond dabuz and him taking small jabs at me like how i was asking pointless questions when it was clear what i was asking didn't feel like town kary , because he never took time out to do things that way in the wall. He also just seems to be sitting on dabuz, even up to his recent posts which BSP pulled up that slip in(still not taking the slip as such a huge thing, but it effects the read non the less) and like i said recently his early D1 has made me feel like he was trying to appear townie , i think i highlighted a post of his earlier where i talk about why his early game doesn't feel like what he's trying to pass it off as
Here's what I'm thinking:
Soup told me that Kary had definite stances. The only non-scummy way that he could come to this conclusion is that he actually paid attention to Kary's posts.
I point out to him that Kary has only made 1 stance, and that was Bardull trying too hard. From this, we already know
1) the stance wasn't legitimate
2) he wasn't reading closely
3) he was fine with validating Kary without paying attention
After this, Soup says I'm right, and then turns around and starts questioning Kary about things that were in plain view before I called him out on his error.
Rake, I'll admit, you do have a point. Maybe he did see something he agreed with. The main problem for me is that he outed his incorrect stance in the first place, because that tells me that he wasn't paying attention.
It wasn't? I thought your whole deal was that you didn't want Dabuz around because you think he's too scummy and useless (more or less).that wasn't my theory at all.
Lay the real reason on me.
Death Bear
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Ryker: scum(rule number one after all) no but really, i'm alright with ryker, his catch up posts have been decent but i'm not ready to call ryker anything but null. Ryker pushing me how he did i haven't been able to make a decision on it yet.
i wanna see where he goes with soupScum and that hando read.
Hando: null. not feeling much from this slot yet
Jerkus: like him, town lean, he seems to be on the same wave length as i've been floating around with dabuz. i want to see where his reads go(as i recall he dislikes the people on the dabuz wagon ) (including soup ? ) that being said it's J and you always have to keep your eye on what J's doing. Him fighting with NH is not that telling to me and i might go grill jerkus later to see where the heads are at
dabuz: the vinyl of this game. somehow this is going to be how it ends up , and right now thsi pretty much describes dabuz for me, although i will say his stance on gheb was a step up from his game thus far
i wanna see where he goes with soupScum and that hando read.
Hando: null. not feeling much from this slot yet
Jerkus: like him, town lean, he seems to be on the same wave length as i've been floating around with dabuz. i want to see where his reads go(as i recall he dislikes the people on the dabuz wagon ) (including soup ? ) that being said it's J and you always have to keep your eye on what J's doing. Him fighting with NH is not that telling to me and i might go grill jerkus later to see where the heads are at
dabuz: the vinyl of this game. somehow this is going to be how it ends up , and right now thsi pretty much describes dabuz for me, although i will say his stance on gheb was a step up from his game thus far
Death Bear
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that is a fair point BSP, so let's talk about , let's say Soup is scum for a moment, how does that change your dabuz read ? Is he easy bussable scum ? Is he easy Ml town ?
Let's say you execute him , where do you look on scumSoup and on townSoup ?
Let's say you execute him , where do you look on scumSoup and on townSoup ?
Death Bear
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in addition , How does soup owning up to skimming play into this, could he have felt that Kary's stance on Bardull was legit and he had put kary down as not worth his interest until the points you had brought up made him reconsider ?
Death Bear
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i see kary viewing.
let the fun begin
let the fun begin
i feel like this is the 10th time i've explained this
but since u said it so nicely. Dabuz is liability. early game he made a neutral statement regarding BSP doing w/e he wants. which was stupid, but that's ok, i'll sit down and explain to him why letting King do w/e is not good. he essentially made an even worse reply which automatically led me to think he was either dumb or scum. which one? dunno, but i knew i wasnt going to any good info out of him so i left it at that (and voted him). as i suspected he didn't rebound. just further validated me wanting him to die by surface level questions and poor questions.
i policy lynch players like this D1 if i don't have a strong enough scent on scum. D1 i normally dont; im a D2/late game player. i draw connections very well and i push connections to be made as much as possible. i lynch people who don't make enough connections or strive to scumhunt in order to increase the chances of finding a scum team late game. that becomes more difficult when u have players like Dabuz who sideline, give very little, and appear to have less reasoning than the average player (no offense dbuz).
and that's all there is to it. i dont expect you or anyone to agree with my beliefs, but it's been a system that has worked for me at a high rate. the main reason why town loses games is because they reach lylo with inactives and players who didn't draw enough connections (purposely).
my thoughts on Dabuz now. hm. the more he posts the more clouded they become. i don't want to stray from the path (because i've made this mistake before; i think Marshy was the one who called me on it, let scum go cuz of it, batman mafia maybe) out of sheer principle.
to be clear, i think the main redeeming factor i've seen from Dabuz since he's come back is the fact that he didn't OMGUS me. if he had, it would have been a done deal, but he doesn't seem to be pointing a single finger in my direction. im not sure what to think of that, but i am thinking about it
to be clear, i think the main redeeming factor i've seen from Dabuz since he's come back is the fact that he didn't OMGUS me. if he had, it would have been a done deal, but he doesn't seem to be pointing a single finger in my direction. im not sure what to think of that, but i am thinking about it
Soup as scum, Dabuz is easy ML town
Scum Soup -> Kary, NH, then Omni
Town Soup -> still Kary, still NH. Regardless of Soup's flip, they've still got gaps in their play. I'd have to do even tighter searching for a 3rd man suspicion.
It's a moot point for me. The fact that he did it in the first place is a big problem for me. Also, I count 2 other oversights in addition to that one. Not a coincidence in my eyes.
If he felt Kary's stance on Bardull was legit, and thus, legitimately made that stance himself, why did he cave so easily when I called him out on it? I don't think it was legitimate.
Also, remember that he specifically said Kary had stances, not just one.
So what I'm getting out of this is: You don't want Dabuz around because you think he's scummy and useless. (or should I say: incapable of looking town)
Sounds exactly like what I stipulated your opinion was to me tbh...
I'd ask you about why still Dabuz instead of a stated actual scum-read but I think BSP had that line of questioning down pat earlier in thread.
Death Bear
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Where don't you look on dabuz town / scum flip 
*deletes a few words quick... (jk)*
I'm going to be honest though, I'm finding this explanation pretty lackluster. It doesn't feel like you've been putting very much thought into it and would rather take the easy way out by writing Dabuz off instead of actually fleshing out your claimed Soup read. In the same vein I'm seeing more of Gheb's side of the argument a few pages back than I do yours.
I'm going to be honest though, I'm finding this explanation pretty lackluster. It doesn't feel like you've been putting very much thought into it and would rather take the easy way out by writing Dabuz off instead of actually fleshing out your claimed Soup read. In the same vein I'm seeing more of Gheb's side of the argument a few pages back than I do yours.
#HBC | ѕoup
The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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k going to rip jdietz a new one tommorow on phone bsp i am town dont ****ing even thinking of shoiting me im tired of dying early setiously i will be pissed man the **** up and shoot dabuz i didnt even want to out my case yet i want a goddamn flip why are we still in dayphase hbc etc
Oh shnap, is that an opportunity to use one of the Mass Effect source-mod films I've been saving for this game? I think it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6QBqCNuB3g
i dont think a lot of thought needs to be put in on writing off Dabuz so, yeah, i can understand why you find it lackluster.
what do you mean fleshing out my claimed Soup read? he smells. he's a good secondary if i can't have Dabuz. and i've given my reasons as to why.
i can see u having an issue with my Dabuz stance, but do u also have an issue with my Soup stance?