Mass Effect (King Maker) - Glorious Way to End the Day. Mafia Wins!

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Why can't we just shoot Dabuz already I don't want to deal with Jerkus

NH I'm totally fine with them going later J's post was awful

 

[Jerkus]

I really hope that's J posting because I don't expect Circus to ignore that as just hot air.

J has posted exactly once so far.

You're not giving me any reason to reconsider my previous statements.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Kary's play this game is so ****ing weak holy **** let me just rant for a moment and say that no offense to you personally i just found myself in awe that you literally ended your wall with

yeah can't be bothered to push anything right now

and i'm just in absolute shock seriously kary if you're town like holy **** what happened

 

[Death Bear]

Soup, whenever you get to it i want to see what you have to say about me and kary's back and forth

 

[No Hetero]

Maybe you've got a master plan brewing in your QT; I don't know. All I can work with is what's in thread. What I know is that Marshy's trying to help push the easiest wagon possible, actively without reason, and you're not doing much to widen the field of vision. I expect more than this, from both of you.

What more would a town marshy be doing right now?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I should be proactive so you don't **** up?

uh, no


hopefully i'll be back later to explain why i think your push on me toDay is grody

Why are you being so goddamn stubborn this game it's like you don't want to be town or maybe you're scum and posting is like walking on broken glass dont worry ive been there it sucks

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You didn't prove me wrong? I'll sit down and shut up when you give me a reason. Why are you hiding behind your meta because clearly your meta isn't consistent and if I wanted to I could give reasons against you being town on your own meta you're using to defend yourself.

i'm not, but people clearly don't understand my meta as they're calling my play weird this game and then calling me scum for that.

Yeah. No. This isn't how you work as Town and you're making me pull this meta card out on you. You're not two dimensional and you actually have intention and reasoning behind your posts when you're town, here you're flailing your keyboard trying to make a coherent sentence and it comes off as moonspeak or something in another language. Why'd you stop pushing Bardull then? He did something worth not pushing anymore? Dabuz scum, Right?

see? you're calling me scum based on meta, without asking why i'd bother putting myself in the spotlight as scum, pushing dabuz of all people.

stopped pushing bardull because he stopped posting, and I didn't have anything interesting to push him on.

"I can't explain what I did so I'm going to deflect the argument and bring out that I got a read out of it despite the fact the intentions of doing it in the first place don't match up with what actually happened. I am the best townie ever."

'i am explaining what happened and it's not my fault you're misreading me. i am much better than you at this game, deal with it'

So you are reading JDietz as scum! Enlightening! Let's chat Kary. He's scum with Dabuz, right? right?

highly unlikely, also you should actually catch up before you respond because I just pointed out that i think you and dabuz are liable to be town

Kary's play this game is so ****ing weak holy **** let me just rant for a moment and say that no offense to you personally i just found myself in awe that you literally ended your wall with

and i'm just in absolute shock seriously kary if you're town like holy **** what happened

wow look the meta card again

and guess what, weak =/= scum, i'm pretty happy with my reads this game, only thing doing bad is that apparently some townies misread me again.

if you like I can drop some RL johns so you don't have to worry about the difference in my commitment levels this game and stop needlessly worrying about my slot

or you could just take my word for it that i'm town/admit that there's literally no way i'd be this relaxed as scum/appreciate nothing i've done suggests some sort of scum co-ordination/step it up

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Why are you being so goddamn stubborn this game it's like you don't want to be town or maybe you're scum and posting is like walking on broken glass dont worry ive been there it sucks

im not but people keep needlessly pushing me

why are you such a drama queen this game, wait nvm

 

[Jerkus]

My argument has not been that what Marshy is doing makes him/you scum. It never has been. Marshy always tries to hardbody and haste lynches.

What is problematic for me is that he is doing on ****ing Dabuz of all people, and has not moved. When it's on a player that naturally sits Null, you have to justify that somehow if you expect people to follow you. That Marshy legitimately thinks that shouting for Dabuz's head and outrightly refusing to justify why he wants him dead is confusing to me. I don't see how he can consider that to be the best use of his time and energy. Anyone can throw down what essentially start out as an RVS vote, stick to it, and never offer justification, but only a player with clout like Marshy can actually do that and successfully help move a wagon. That bothers me. Not in a "clearly Marshy must be scum" kind of way, but in a "this is so anti-Town, why are you being this dense and difficult?" kind of way.

 

[Jerkus]

That was @NH, obviously.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Kary can I respond after Dabuz gets executed like

No more

I am done with this game until someone is dead and I see a flip

 

[#HBC | Kary]

soup i'm seriously not interested in arguing with you because you're probably town and you've posted more than enough for me to be able to figure you out on a re-read.

so yes obviously if you don't want to bother pushing me anymore I am a-ok with that

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I am glad we have come to this agreement

 

[Jerkus]

Kary, why do you keep saying people are "probably town?"

What makes you think Soup is probably town?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

because he hasn't thought through his scumspects enough to be scum with a plan, plus he's all over the place, and a lot of people seem to think he's scum, and there was one thing he did i skimmed over about ten pages ago that i'm sure was telling

but i need to re-read him to be sure

 

[No Hetero]

What is problematic for me is that he is doing on ****ing Dabuz of all people, and has not moved. When it's on a player that naturally sits Null, you have to justify that somehow if you expect people to follow you. That Marshy legitimately thinks that shouting for Dabuz's head and outrightly refusing to justify why he wants him dead is confusing to me. I don't see how he can consider that to be the best use of his time and energy. Anyone can throw down what essentially start out as an RVS vote, stick to it, and never offer justification, but only a player with clout like Marshy can actually do that and successfully help move a wagon. That bothers me. Not in a "clearly Marshy must be scum" kind of way, but in a "this is so anti-Town, why are you being this dense and difficult?" kind of way.

What the ****? This is my first time playing with dabuz and I don't give a **** about his meta. That ***** is scum and no amount of ******** misplaced whiteknighting is changing that. Are weaker players not allowed to be scum? What of ERB where similar logic you're applying now was used to keep DHorse scum and Gargscum around (and Orbo in Skies) cuz "oh they're weaker players they have to be dumb they're not allowed to be scum." Really cannot believe you're doing this nonsense.

 

[Death Bear]

Jerkus, are you implying that if Marshy had done it to someone like soup or Kary that you would have had no issue with it ?

 

[Jerkus]

Jerkus, why is it that Soup making a big deal out of something that's obviously nothing, is a scumtell?

and if #1020 is just hot air, is that a scumtell?

Because townSoup, even when he's wrong, at least has a coherent line of thinking and can backup his reads and stances. Nothing is ever just hot air with him. He doesn't just ignore an entire slot (you, Kary), then flip to them for five seconds when they get some pressure, then flip off again to buddy a power player (No Hetero) and aggressively push for the lynch of a player whom he has no substantive quarrel with (Dabuz).

His reads all over the place, he's buddying NH because he's NH, and he's avoiding getting into direct confrontation with me because he knows his stance is indefensible. That's ScumSoup, right there.

EBWOPreview: Whoa. So weird that your reasons for TownSoup are basically my exact reasons for ScumSoup. What makes you think ScumSoup has to be scum with a plan?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

This is a J post. How the **** is Bardull the one with his head straight and Gheb is a loon right now. JDietz hasn't even done anything. How are they the ones with their head straight? I'm serious about an answer to that because if you asked me JDietz is out of whack this game and can't even bother to keep up with the game, his attitude towards Dabuz is crap because even if he were against it I would be fine with it until that he has explictly stated that he just think he's null more than anything. I think I remember JDietz leaving a question to someone (I believe Kary or Dabuz) which he didn't even follow up on. Apparently that's sanity now? Are you serious about Bardull? Basically the same thing with JDietz only if you added in a unjustified attitude and unwillingness to listen to others because he sets his own standards so high he just scoffs at the idea of someone not having the same read as him.

An Idiot's Guide To Mafia: Lynching Dabuz

He has the most connections out of all. We get the most profit from it and his play this game is not worth keeping around either. He's been scummy and useless. I'm not trying to be mean here but I'm not going to let him get away with this all day because clearly the thought hasn't occurred to him he's this close to death and he'd rather cry about it then do something to get the wagon off of him. I've already elaborated on special connections. Even if we're wrong on this then I'm perfectly content with looking at it more but I cannot do that because he's sitting there catching dust. I find myself revolted that some people don't want this because frankly YOU are being anti-town. Unless you can give a justifiable reason against that isn't along the lines of him being null then you need to shut your mouth.

reads a lot more like Soup being incredulous at this game and bored of the bickering around dabuz than Soup trying to set up some kinda lynch. don't know why scum soup would be labouring these points so much when it's liable to just make him the centre of attention

overall im seeing a lot more of Soup being kinda overconfident and just whaling on things he dislikes than Soup being careful or trying to push things that will go. Feel a lot more like he's dragging himself into this game rather than trying to control it.

/buthey

 

[#HBC | Kary]

yeah you ninja'd me

Because townSoup, even when he's wrong, at least has a coherent line of thinking and can backup his reads and stances. Nothing is ever just hot air with him. He doesn't just ignore an entire slot (you, Kary), then flip to them for five seconds when they get some pressure, then flip off again to buddy a power player (No Hetero) and aggressively push for the lynch of a player whom he has no substantive quarrel with (Dabuz).

His reads all over the place, he's buddying NH because he's NH, and he's avoiding getting into direct confrontation with me because he knows his stance is indefensible. That's ScumSoup, right there.

EBWOPreview: Whoa. So weird that your reasons for TownSoup are basically my exact reasons for ScumSoup. What makes you think ScumSoup has to be scum with a plan?

yeah except you haven't substantiated why he's just hot air or explained why he doesn't have a coherent train of thought. i'll admit his 'flip' on to me looks pretty sudden and whatever but that doesn't make it incoherent.

I am reading a lot more of 'soup thinks this game is boring and that scum are obvious which is why he's venting' than 'soup is just fluff posting and flip-flopping to get a lynch'

and i literally just posted a quote where soup takes a run at you criticizing your stances so i dunno are you just not reading or what

 

[Jerkus]

What the ****? This is my first time playing with dabuz and I don't give a **** about his meta. That ***** is scum and no amount of ******** misplaced whiteknighting is changing that. Are weaker players not allowed to be scum? What of ERB where similar logic you're applying now was used to keep DHorse scum and Gargscum around (and Orbo in Skies) cuz "oh they're weaker players they have to be dumb they're not allowed to be scum." Really cannot believe you're doing this nonsense.

You are twisting my words!

I never said Dabuz cannot be scum. Not once. I even said previously that Dabuz could be scum and fellow scum are bussing him before he even gets a legitimate chance to slip. Dabuz's actual alignment doesn't even matter at this point. What matters is the intention behind the people who have so quickly, voraciously and baselessly descended upon him so far. Ugh.

And what do you mean you've never played with Dabuz? How can that possibly be true? It's not like either of you are newbies.

Jerkus, are you implying that if Marshy had done it to someone like soup or Kary that you would have had no issue with it ?

I don't know about no issue, but certainly a lot less. It's often difficult to deal with, but I do accept that this is just part of Marshy's playstyle because he has stuck to it for years, so all you can do is deal with it. But in other games, the players he chooses to hardbody are at least easier to understand (like, I've already gotten a scumread on them myself) or he moves around a bit more, showing me he's reading and adapting to new information. That's not happening here and I don't get why. It seems excessively lazy to me.

I will say that if I'm right about Soup then No Hetero's very unlikely to be scum.

 

[Jerkus]

Oh my god. I cannot get my arms around this thread. Everyone stop posting.

 

[Jerkus]

reads a lot more like Soup being incredulous at this game and bored of the bickering around dabuz than Soup trying to set up some kinda lynch. don't know why scum soup would be labouring these points so much when it's liable to just make him the centre of attention

overall im seeing a lot more of Soup being kinda overconfident and just whaling on things he dislikes than Soup being careful or trying to push things that will go. Feel a lot more like he's dragging himself into this game rather than trying to control it.

/buthey

Because Soup is not great at being scum. And he at least thinks he has No Hetero on his side. Soup is normally more methodical than this. He doesn't take a no-effort lynch like Dabuz without at least exploring other avenues more deeply himself first. He doesn't normally act like Marshy. He's doing it now to buddy him.

Look at the "justification" he's trying to use for the lynch he seems to just be "venting about because its obvious." He just keeps calling Dabuz useless and scummy over and over. He doesn't give examples of why Dabuz needs to die so badly. There's no elaboration on what makes Dabuz the best lynch toDay, other than the fact that he "has connections" and isn't very active. That's weak. Much too weak to justify all the huffing and puffing he's doing.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Maybe I'll give more thought when Dabuz is lynched right now it's an agreement and I don't really feel like doing anything else right now I don't know why you think this is different for me. I literally just want Dabuz lynched, then you will see me chill out.

 

[Jerkus]

You must understand why I can't accept "I just want Dabuz dead because because because we'll talk about it after I get my way" as a legitimate response.

Try harder. That's one of my biggest problems with every Dabuz wagoner—I see no effort, not critical thinking, no inquiry. It's a lot of people trying to hurry up to a shortcut.

It's like your win condition is to get Day 1 to end as quickly as possible.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

There's no elaboration on what makes Dabuz the best lynch toDay, either

Insulted at this actually because I think I've made myself clear a plethora of times I'm tired of this go read what I've been ranting about the last few pages

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Because Soup is not great at being scum. And he at least thinks he has No Hetero on his side. Soup is normally more methodical than this. He doesn't take a no-effort lynch like Dabuz without at least exploring other avenues more deeply himself first. He doesn't normally act like Marshy. He's doing it now to buddy him.

meta meta meta meta meta meta meta maybe a bit of a reach meta meta meta
nope, this is probably null

Look at the "justification" he's trying to use for the lynch he seems to just be "venting about because its obvious." He just keeps calling Dabuz useless and scummy over and over. He doesn't give examples of why Dabuz needs to die so badly. There's no elaboration on what makes Dabuz the best lynch toDay, other than the fact that he "has connections" and isn't very active. That's weak. Much too weak to justify all the huffing and puffing he's doing.

interesting point, but I don't see why it's a scumtell for Soup to be pushing a weak case and huffing and puffing. You could appeal to meta, of course.

I don't see any disconnect between the case that he's pushing and the venting; I don't think it's unnatural for Soup to have not presented a very good case, and yet still be banging on about wanting the lynch. On the other hand, you could talk about why Soup bothered to make a case against me, but has apparently given up trying to push for my lynch toDay, so i'll bear that in mind.

IMO either Soup is playing the 'i'm bored can we please end the day' card, or he is legit. bored, and right now i'm leaning towards the other because I don't see much to suggest the former.
Maybe i'm giving him too much leeway but he and I are on the same page about a few things (jdietz being one) but I'm not seeing Soupscum so I guess i'll go look for it and see if I find it.

Insulted at this actually because I think I've made myself clear a plethora of times I'm tired of this go read what I've been ranting about the last few pages

see again this strikes me more as stubborn/bored townSoup than scumSoup trying to handwave away criticism

w/e

 

[Jerkus]

Most of what you've been ranting about the last few pages is about Jdietz, not Dabuz. The topic of Dabuz comes up only as a cudgel with which to beat Jdietz (ineffectively, imo). You call Dabuz useless and complain about Jdietz not having a firm read on Dabuz's slot yet several times, but you do not elaborate on why Dabuz reads scummy to you anywhere. You just keep telling Dietz to read Dabuz and come up with something.

Here's the thing: If you strongly believe a player is scum, and other players aren't seeing it, unless you're Marshy or Kevin, you have to explain what you're seeing to other people in order to get them to follow you. Even if you are Marshy or Kevin, that still helps.

Although in this game, the only person you really have to convince right now is BSP. Which is even better, really. You only need to convince one person. It doesn't matter if I'm being stubborn, in your opinion. If you really thought that Dabuz was scum, case closed, everyone go home, then I would see you banging that drum. I would see you highlighting posts and explaining connections you see, etc, in hopes of convincing BSP of why you're right. But you're not. No one is. Becuase the Dabuz wagon barely has a wheel to roll on. If it actually had any merit, then the supporters would be able to show some merit for it by now. So far, the strongest case I've seen against Dabuz, from anyone, is "he's not worth keeping around. And I guess connections and stuff." That's not good enough. If that's all you have, then you should be digging deeper. You should not be in a rush to end the Day on the strength of that kind of argument.

 

[BSP]

I will say that if I'm right about Soup then No Hetero's very unlikely to be scum.

What makes you say this?

 

[Jerkus]

Kary, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this point then. Soup's inability/unwillingness to hunt and play the game, while dismissing every complaint levied against that play with "I explained this, so frustrating, why isn't Dabuz dead arrrgggg" comes off as totally insincere to me.

 

[Jdietz43]

Reading this thread before class starts...

I don't even feel like I need to make a case anymore, both Soup and Kary's latest posts and stances are a complete mess. BSP I pray you end this soon.

 

[Jerkus]

What makes you say this?

Soup's buddying No Hetero too hard. Comes off as scum wanting a town power player in their corner.

 

[Jerkus]

BSP, don't feel pressured to slam your fist yet if you don't feel ready. People are getting antsy because tensions are running high; don't let that alone make your trigger finger itchy.

Feel free to talk out what you're thinking.

 

[Jdietz43]

Yeah, don't mind me wanting this to end, I just feel like I'm the only sane man in an insane world and it's getting to me.

 

[Omni]

Let the hate flow, BSP. Pull the trigger.

 

[Jdietz43]

you know this is weak RVS stuff
or you're scum, i can't decide

well damn that was kinda tedious all in all
you want anything more from me, please make it concise.
not going to take anyone seriously who continues to just sit on a scumread of me, so good luck with that.

yeah can't be bothered to push anything right now

Kary I want to ask for clarification in your post here. Are you claiming Dabuz is still RVS here?

That seems a little predictive. Kary didn't plan any mislynches in Tekken?

I don't remember if we did or didn't succeed, but the idea of leading people astray as scum made both of our slots happy in the pants.

Let the hate flow, BSP. Pull the trigger.

*bites tongue*

 

[Jdietz43]

EBWOP: Nvm you're talking to Deathbear...

 

[Jdietz43]

Actually my whole basis on this is that I wanted Dabuz lynched before I even scratched the surface of that half-***** case I made. I don't think I could made myself more clear but I would like to congratulate you for caring about your own *** instead of pursuing your scum reads but I guess all it took was for me to call you out on your bull**** before you felt motivated.

@Bold: Hold on, I've got to take a moment to laugh about this: Who do you think my scum-reads are?

 

[Jdietz43]

(class on, Dietz out)

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Jerkus what you don't understand is that I'm not fully certain and what I have on Dabuz collides with what I feel with Kary and JDietz. I told people many times I wanted to wait until Dabuz flipped before I even started turning those wheels but people have become annoying and I just felt the need to at least out something. I've laid it out as bluntly as possible and talking about it more when a missing piece of the puzzling is missing is useless. This is why I'm frustrated, this is why I'm blowing hot air. People have wanted Dabuz for a long time and you've got a couple of people against it. When questioned, they just give the same damn excuse.

"He's Null."

I have done everything in my power to prove that statement wrong but I guess I'm not making myself loud and clear enough to be heard even though it's all I ranted about with reference I don't know half of the things I've posted. Your disposition on me is that I'm not thinking things through, not concerned with things and just trying to get a lynch. You couldn't be anymore wrong. I think I've actually thought about this ten times over then any other time I've ever posted something. I'm so certain on what I want to do but I'm limited on the progression of the game, people are ****ing around and ignoring the thought behind Dabuz. The people who do want Dabuz are probably just as frustrated as me. This isn't about wanting to end the day quickly, it's about looking at what has been given from this day and what is the best option, Dabuz has shown clearly to be the best option and I don't know how many rant paragraphs how many walls I have to write to this through your head but goddamnit I will rant as much as I well please.