Mass Effect (King Maker) - Glorious Way to End the Day. Mafia Wins!

[Omni]

i thought i was the only one who wanted Dabuz lynchced while still believing he's null

 

[Omni]

oh, people who DON'T want him lynched. k, continue with your daily activities

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I don't even feel like I need to make a case anymore, both Soup and Kary's latest posts and stances are a complete mess. BSP I pray you end this soon.

wow way to throw down the blanket dislike
i have news for you, bud, i'm town, so this comes off as pretty ***-terrible from you
what is it about my stances that you find messy, or are you just putting zero effort in?

EBWOP: Nvm you're talking to Deathbear...

oh hey look you can't even read my posts correctly. i don't want to make a big deal out of this, but it does look like you're calling for me to die without even having made the effort to properly read/understand my posts

for srs are you scum?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

All of this frustration and anger comes from me going "What is going to take get people to listen to me." I give out an inch and you people expect a mile. This isn't about defending myself because frankly my own hide isn't importance and you're still trying to look at this like I just want someone else lynched besides me. Do you ever think what would happen if Dabuz flips town? Do you realize how terrible I would look in that process? Even if he does, I'm prepared and I have plenty of ammo to take that burden but that's when I sit down ago "Okay, I was wrong on Dabuz." "I need to think about the others now, and their connections to it." I'm not a player who plays D1 and goes into the with a plan, I will lynch who I think is scum and I will do anything I can to get that person lynched. I don't understand why you ever felt I wasn't this way but you have to learn that things can be more situational than anything and the fact remains that some games I'm not certain so I wait until I have a clarified opinion of something. Right now, Dabuz just looks blunt to me and it didn't take me that long to reach conclusions. I hate myself for skimming and I'm tired of saying this. I'm tired of writing these things and I'm tired of feeling like BSP is just prepared to shoot me.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@Bold: Hold on, I've got to take a moment to laugh about this: Who do you think my scum-reads are?

Me/Kary/NH.

You haven't said anything else.

 

[Jerkus]

Part of the problem is the idea that any one player has been shown to clearly be the best lynch at all yet. Deadline's not for another week, but you, and apparently others, have come to the conclusion that NOTHING more can be learned until Dabuz is dead. That his flip is the only thing that can remove some kind of imagine blockade before us. I do not see why.

You can argue that Dabuz is not worth holding onto. That he would make a fine backup lynch. That he is inactive and should post more (much more). I would agree with all of that. You could actually speak directly to him and try to pressure him into actually standing for more things so people can read him better. If nothing else, that could at least help to make his flip even more informational.

What you cannot do is throw up your hands a week out from deadline and say "well, I guess we shoot the quiet one and hope for the best. But not the quiet one named Mastermind, because he scares me. The other quiet one," and expect to be taken seriously.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I seriously believe that and believe there is enough to end the day. I have not really gained anything else of interest besides a solidification of town reads that I've had in the past. I'm not scared of Mastermind. It's not the same deal and they're not the same person. You're comparing Dabuz to him? Not even close.

Although in this game, the only person you really have to convince right now is BSP. Which is even better, really. You only need to convince one person. It doesn't matter if I'm being stubborn, in your opinion. If you really thought that Dabuz was scum, case closed, everyone go home, then I would see you banging that drum. I would see you highlighting posts and explaining connections you see, etc, in hopes of convincing BSP of why you're right. But you're not. No one is. Becuase the Dabuz wagon barely has a wheel to roll on. If it actually had any merit, then the supporters would be able to show some merit for it by now. So far, the strongest case I've seen against Dabuz, from anyone, is "he's not worth keeping around. And I guess connections and stuff." That's not good enough. If that's all you have, then you should be digging deeper. You should not be in a rush to end the Day on the strength of that kind of argument.

If I seriously have to go this far into something just to make it clear enough when I feel something like this should be transparent then so ****ing be it.

 

[Jerkus]

Well, I was definitely ninja'd a little there.

 

[Omni]

What you cannot do is throw up your hands a week out from deadline and say "well, I guess we shoot the quiet one and hope for the best. But not the quiet one named Mastermind, because he scares me. The other quiet one," and expect to be taken seriously.

did you just compare Mastermind with Dabuz?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You can argue that Dabuz is not worth holding onto. That he would make a fine backup lynch. That he is inactive and should post more (much more). I would agree with all of that. You could actually speak directly to him and try to pressure him into actually standing for more things so people can read him better. If nothing else, that could at least help to make his flip even more informational.

I have done this on multiple cases and got him to respond on things actually. One of your points was that I wasn't being confrontational if I recall. Am I confrontational enough for you now? I really don't feel I'm playing this game people say I am, this isn't about insult or anything just that I'm confused that people are looking at me the way they are.

 

[Jerkus]

did you just compare Mastermind with Dabuz?

Please don't be obtuse.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

1090 posts. I hate games like these.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Omni stop posting holy ****

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I also wanted to say that I'm not even buddying Marshy. I switched over to hbc mode because it was fun to do so and it didn't hinder anything else that was going on, I still asked questions and I'm not just blindly tunneling Dabuz. I have thought about this. I have thought about others. I don't go into this game and post 'dabuz dead yet' and leave.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm going to be such the nice guy I am and actually ISO Dabuz for everyone. I will write up somewhat of a case based on his already transparent play but the things I do for you ****ing people.

 

[Omni]

Please don't be obtuse.

Use better arguments. You don't compare Dabuz and Mastermind in terms of quietness when we're talking about actual usefulness. If you're going to use a comparison to strengthen your argument don't make it a half-***** one.

That's why I think this day needs to end. People are beating a dead horse. The connections have been made; enough stances have been created. People's dislike or like for certain people or thoughts or w/e is solidified. Just vote who you want dead today and let's move on instead of cluttering the thread with more information scum can use to make their best night kill.

 

[Omni]

Omni stop posting holy ****

Do you ever stop crying? Keep your childish mood swings to yourself.

 

[Jerkus]

Use better arguments. You don't compare Dabuz and Mastermind in terms of quietness when we're talking about actual usefulness. If you're going to use a comparison to strengthen your argument don't make it a half-***** one.

That's why I think this day needs to end. People are beating a dead horse. The connections have been made; enough stances have been created. People's dislike or like for certain people or thoughts or w/e is solidified. Just vote who you want dead today and let's move on instead of cluttering the thread with more information scum can use to make their best night kill.

You yourself say that you consider Dabuz to be null. Still.

Again, deadline is a week away.

But you think that everything is already sealed up. All of the "connections have been made." That everything's already been solidified. We couldn't possibly use the time we have left to, say, continue examining null players?

This is nothing other than transparent laziness.

 

[Death Bear]

deadline is a week away.

*insert picture of soup's old thumbs up avatar here*

 

[Jerkus]

Save this, for future use.

 

[Omni]

You yourself say that you consider Dabuz to be null. Still.

Again, deadline is a week away.

But you think that everything is already sealed up. All of the "connections have been made." That everything's already been solidified. We couldn't possibly use the time we have left to, say, continue examining null players?

This is nothing other than transparent laziness.

I call it efficiency.

Dragging on time for the sake of having time isn't my style. It's counterproductive. Do you have an end goal? Do you have a stopping point? Or is your idea to just go on indefinitely until everyone has repeated the same points 10x over until we get to the end of the Day? What more do you need to know to make a solid lynch, Jerkus?

Don't give me the laziness spiel. I'm known for being one of the most active and non-lazy DGers around. And I have plenty of time at work to post here.

 

[Omni]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrG7cmqcnO4

Essentially how I feel about this game at this point.

 

[Death Bear]

*sees BSP viewing*
*doesn't see him actively participating in this discussion*

I love you jerkus

 

[Death Bear]

Vote : Hando

 

[Jerkus]

@Omni: You want to lynch a null read even though you have eight days to try to gain information on him (and others), if you wanted to. That is not efficient. That is lazy. Just because you post a lot does not make you useful or productive. You don't want to do any work toward trying to clear up your read, so you'd rather just see the flip shrug your shoulders if we end up mislynching.

We can't win on guess-and-check alone.

 

[Jerkus]

I am dropping words and letters left and right today. I don't know what's wrong with me.

 

[Jerkus]

Actually, I think that's my cue to take a long break from this game. I'll play with you guys later tonight, probably after a good nap.

 

[Mastermind]

Speaking of naps, I had a glorious one.

In other news, I've talked to EE. I want Hando, **** Dabunz.

Still need to read seven pages.

@MOD - Can I post hydra logs?

 

[BSP]

*sees BSP viewing*
*doesn't see him actively participating in this discussion*

I love you jerkus

We have 1000+ pages on D1, and I have to decision on who's going. Excuse me for taking time to think.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

A main basis on why I dislike Dabuz is honestly not even his own fault. His early play is something I would agree as null as anything else but what ticked in my mind is that I felt like even on face value, it was pointless. Dabuz in total only posted about 5-6 times. Some had attempts to scumhunt, others were just simply filler and admitting to skim. The non-committal approach is what I would like to call it. Dabuz isn't committing to what he has done and there's a lot of logic that just doesn't connect. I can't say anything is deeming wrt his filler about kings but something I want to reference back is this:

After Skimming Kary and Bardull's interactions, looks like Kary just pressured for the sake of getting pressure, doesn't seem like he/ she had any reason to pressure.

I would actually welcome such a move since I guarantee a D1 quick lynch without any possible substantial reasoning behind it is a scumtastic action to take.

This is Dabuz' first concrete stance on Kary. It's not anything that I want you to focus on but I'm only putting this as a reference. Same with the other. It will get more important as I get down the line. Really after that Dabuz just disappears, there's not much else I can comment on after this and that's something I really highlighted on him. He's not committing. I don't expect town to say something, then completely drop it afterwards. It's like he said without a purpose of saying it.

Not answering until you tell me why, back when you voted for me, you thought I am scum.

The next post Dabuz makes is about Kary. This post is about #283. Kary by now has been grilling Dabuz for a long time and just ranting and raving about him. From Dabuz' perspective Kary is doing exactly what he said before. I believe Omni/NH were for Dabuz also.

From that point then Dabuz just stops what he's doing. He just stops caring. I don't know his life style but it didn't really take Kary that long to respond to his qualms, Kary was actually still posting at his time. Non-committal. Remember. Dabuz isn't null, he's done plenty of telling things and I am hoping that I am making myself clear. Dabuz finally posts again around #421.

You can view if you want yourself but what really got my wheels turning was this:

You're just pressuring for the sake of having pressure. Seeing the reaction you can get.

It's the same stance 200 posts later. I don't know how this collides with his past reasoning and his past stance on scum wanting a quick lynch. I'm pretty certain by then Dabuz was the definition of a quick lynch. Non-committal.

Do you have a read on Jdietz? If so, what is it?

This just really ticked in my mind. It set the wheels in motion for me regarding the piece of the puzzle. I remember looking at this and thinking "Why the hell would he post this." I didn't have a solid reason and I couldn't say for certain I could make a case out of it. But here I am making a case for it. I'm not going to bring JDietz into this but I really just look at this as something that's going to give me information later down if Dabuz gets lynched. This line isn't anything special at the naked eye but if you look at how they've been treating each other, then it's gold.

Dabuz then dissappears after this again. Kary is so willing to work with Dabuz but Dabuz just doesn't care. I'm okay with maybe being wrong on Kary but this isn't okay at all. Dabuz finally posts again around #515.

and now we have No Hetero basically white-knighting Kary through attacking Jerkus and anyone else vocally against my wagon.

He has intention to dislike Kary, but he doesn't put any effort forth and would rather make snide remarks like this. Do I need to say it or am I making myself clear enough for you to understand those two magical words? Non-Comittal!!!

He doesn't even commit on his own reads!!

Your play just REEKS of dumb or scum.

He can't even give a solid stance on NH and would rather give himself a backdoor. Look at what he said in the first place again. His logic does not line up with what has been said, and he doesn't care about finding scum, he cares about saving his own ***. It really does look obvious after I point it out, doesn't it? Good grief.

What is your read on Jdietz? Why?

Dabuz, please tell me why you're so concerned about JDietz because the only consistency I've seen is that you're concerned on his play. Elaborate on it if you're town. I'm not done ranting about this because frankly his post is a load of bull****.

Kary is null-leaning town IMO. He/ she is almost certainly pressuring me for the sake of pressuring me and generating discussion. As a result the logic is a bit lacking. It's like what the slot was doing to you, Bardull.

How can someone get the line of reasoning out of this based on his own reasoning? It's a blatant contradiction! He even shows some vigor and fight with Kary but I guess it was just sizzle because clearly Kary is just town and NH is one to be offense. All Kary has done up until this point is push Dabuz, without reasoning. I literally cannot believe how someone could pass this up. Go ahead and look at what he said before and then laugh about how he could mess up his own logic. Kary should be the scum that is pushing the townie quick lynch! I don't understand the isolation on NH and even then he still doesn't want to fess up on everything I've said. I'm very tired of talking about this but I do what I ****ing have to do in order to get **** done.

Sorry I don't have more solid reads, but most of my time atm is dealing with Kary's pressure.




Can someone explain the dislike on Soup for me please?

Going to reference this. Non committal!

He posts again around #564. Still. Not. Commiting. Doesn't even care about Kary or his read on JDietz for that matter, I don't see him pushing it all and I don't see him questioning JDietz either. What a load of bull****.

I finally get him to do something and even then he's still defending his slot and having not a single clue what he's doing. I don't even think Dabuz knows what is going on anymore. It's like he entered this game with a win condition to be as scummy as possible. Never before have I seen a town act like this, even newbies have a solid line of logic or reasoning. Dabuz has nothing. Look at his posts. Look at this case. What do you get out of Dabuz from this? His stances? His ideals? Nothing? Good. You're sane and you have a sound mind. What's that talk about Null again? Dabuz isn't null. Dabuz has no right to be null.

You can read the rest of the banter between me and Dabuz all you want, it's not much and it's just him saying he's town and still being blah blah blah goddamnit people non committal he subtly attacks me without basis of having a read on me too in #581 write it ****ing down.

Read back, I already gave a stance on Kary.

Jdietz is fine where he is right now.

So what was the reason to push it in the first place if he was fine? You referenced it twice to Kary. Did it not occur to you as nothing but fine? I don't see the line of logic behind this. I'm so frustrated right now that I'm typing out of pure adrenaline and hatred of this game.

Omni's play is kinda armchair critic. He's pushing my lynch without actually doing much, and besides that, he seems content on commenting about the meta of mafiascum as a game or it's players. In his response to me (517), he says he has made stances and points, but I don't remember seeing those besides wanting me dead. Besides that, he's basically calling me a **** player. I don't have any read on him though, I just get the sense he wants to be lazy.

*Sigh.* Do I need to say it again? I don't want to. I'm not going to but honestly people I'm doing this for you and I love you all down deep down in my heart. Dabuz is still giving out nothing. This is just..amazing. This is eye opening.

A lot of the cases, like him not having substantial reasoning, talking a lot without saying much, trying to target a weak player are all pretty accurate. However, I don't think it's scum play in this because a lot of his play supports my theory that he is trying to pressure for the sake of pressuring and open up D1 discussion.

This is about Kary. I don't get the townread at this point and I don't get what seperates the line between NH and him. He's repeated the same thing over and over yet is not even aware in the changes Kary has made on him. Kary even stopped pressuring Dabuz for a moment too. It's a blatant contradiction and it's a blatant lack of effort. So ****ing tired of this.

 

[BSP]

We have 1000+ pages on D1, and I have to decision on who's going. Excuse me for taking time to think.

Sorry, I meant

"1000+ posts" and "I have to make a decision"

 

[Omni]

@Omni: You want to lynch a null read even though you have eight days to try to gain information on him (and others), if you wanted to. That is not efficient. That is lazy. Just because you post a lot does not make you useful or productive. You don't want to do any work toward trying to clear up your read, so you'd rather just see the flip shrug your shoulders if we end up mislynching.

We can't win on guess-and-check alone.

It's not that, bro'.

I truly think Dabuz is a good lynch. Third of the cast for his wagon. Third of the cast against it. Third of the cast playing pocket pool on the issue. I get it. You don't like the thought of lynching someone who's a null-tell. W/e. But I think we can have much more EFFICIENT discussion on D2 then what we're going to get toDay.

It's D1 with no flips/kills in a vanilla based game with no claims. We ain't gonna' talk people into revealing themself as auto-scum. All people do on D1 is meta, and perhaps that's why I'm so done with the Day because I have nothing to meta on. We get a flip; we get past a night kill. We work with absolutes; we get better discussion.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I also didn't mention the reasons he says I'm scum supposedly for sure maybe not (since IDK what he's actually thinking) would also apply to Jdietz at the time since Jdietz stated he has the same philosophy wrt king as I do. Still think he's just pressuring for the sake of pressure and getting discussion in the game.

Just absolute negligence despite anything I say. This townread is not just a scum trying to stay consistent it's a scum distancing his partner. It's odd, it's forced, and I hate it with all my heart. I wouldn't be as certain if it weren't for how Kary has handled **** regarding Dabuz either.

I'm not going any farther with that post as Dabuz starts doing things later on but it's just a case of a day late and a dollar short. I'm not sure I'll quote them but really, I have just slaved away on my keyboard just to appeal to the reason of people against Dabuz and hope we can all come together and lynch scum.

VOTE: DABUZ

 

[BSP]

Soup, I'm going to go into that, but the first thing that comes to my mind:

Why couldn't you do that when you initially gave your claim of what the scum team would be?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Because I wasn't certain and I wanted a backing of a flip before I went into it. I can safely say that I feel that there is enough to fully operate one but right now it's going to crumble if Dabuz is town. I honestly don't find that likely and I say this with confidence.

 

[Omni]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHj3M0YdVcA[/yt]

just... listen to this song... then everything about this Day will make sense, guys.

@BSP: this especially applies to you

 

[Omni]

[yt]EHj3M0YdVcA[/yt]

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

The connections lies in the inconsistencies with one another. Dabuz clings to this Kary town read for no reason with the same argument he had back in RVS. His own logic contradicts what he said prior to it and would rather push NH on trying to quick lynch town. He questions JDietz but doesn't lead anything on it, he drops the whole point in full even when Kary is willing to respond. JDietz acts Negligent towards Dabuz, he tries to be confused about things and doesn't even bat an eyelash about Dabuz being concerned with him. He constantly berates that he is just null and there is better avenues of lynching. Kary has tunneled Dabuz on and off and has contradicted himself on Dabuz. There is even a point where he townread Dabuz for a moment. He stated that he was just pressuring Dabuz for the sake of pressure and clearly Dabuz went along with that logic despite the fact Kary going off on it a bunch of times. Add that all in together and you get a huge pot of scum stew. I wouldn't think it would be this transparent but Dabuz has done a poor job of things so far and I was able to pick up on it early.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

"What if Dabuz is town? Are you going for Kary and JDietz?"

Plausible. I will give Kary more room than Dietz on a town flip but I will give Kary less room on scum and don't even talk about what I'm going to do with JDietz once I get my grubby hands on him.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

BSP, can you make a clear statement on whom you'd prefer to execute between soup and Kary?