Mass Effect (King Maker) - Glorious Way to End the Day. Mafia Wins!

[No Hetero]

Ghebs arguments are flimsy and if Cello and OS at their worst had a child, it would be him.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

hey gheb, could you give me a tl;dr of your thoughts on everyone on the dabuz wagon ?
Also, do you agree with what i said before about dabuz; i.e he is going to be the vinyl of this game ? Why or why not ?

I will do the first part in a bit.
I don't know anything about Vinyl *shrug*

To make this clear though: I'm not saying that dabuz has done anything that deserves praise or town credit and frankly, his incompetence isn't my cup of tea either. However, none - NONE - of the arguments I've gone into makes me think he's scum [at least not marshy's or Omni's] and whoever just says "he's scum or dumb so let's lynch him" is using an extremely flawed, potentially scummy approach. I don't know why anybody would let that slide.
If somebody can point out to me how dabuz is scummy I obviously wouldn't object to his execution but apparently that's too much asked.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

"Hi am marshy I do whatever I want and if you have issues with it you are terrible, dumb, stubborn, unreasonable and all at once no matter how ********, illogical, scummy and unbearable I am playing. Why? Because I am marshy and I do whatever I want and if you have issues with it you are terrible, dumb, stubborn, unreasonable and all at once no matter how ********, illogical, scummy and unbearable I am playing. Why? Because I am marshy and I do ..."

 

[Omni]

its like... a child... or something

 

[Death Bear]

Dabuz needs to die because there's no reason to keep him alive. He's either dumb or scum. I don't like his slot existing. And as it being D1 he's disposable. Win-win.

I refuse to even entertain this kind of idea. A lot of the game is disposable, a lot, but we don't do that crap because it doesn't kill someone who is legitimately scummy, useless is done when people refuse to be helpful, Dabuz is at the very least willing to post and be useful. We lynch scum, we lynch useless if there is no one better.

You tell him to make himself not useless, but you refuse to even try to read him.

I'm baffled you're saying he should go first over your strongest scum read.

:hpfox:

 

[~ Gheb ~]

hey gheb, could you give me a tl;dr of your thoughts on everyone on the dabuz wagon?

Actually, I would like other people who aren't in favor of it to speak up first if that's not a major problem [considering my two strongest scumreads are the strongest supporters of a dabuz execution it would be a bit redundant anyway].

 

[Death Bear]

ehhh lets see here:

as town vinyls play is extremely easy to make look scummy as balls and is probably one of the easier mislynches you could safely push as scum.

whereas scum it shines right through and his mates usually end up bussing him because his play is legit that questionable.

this gheb.

10 this's

 

[Jerkus]

Gheb, B-dull and Jditzy are the only ones making any sense in here. Anyone who thinks any of those slots are scum right now isn't using their head (or is scum).

Soup, stop sheeping all the hunky power players; watching you flip onto Kary when it starts to look like it's what you should be doing and then start **** riding Marshy and trying to HBC Dabuz for no reason is making me queasy. I know you're better than this (if you're town).

Marshy, do not engage with me again if you're not going to do so substantively. You yourself admit that Nabe probably doesn't really endorse the way you're representing your slot right now (although he's essentially doing so by not condemning it). If that's true, then let him talk when he gets a chance. I have nothing to say to you because you have brick walls where your ears should be.

Frankly, the fact that Nabe even exists to counter you, and yet has not done so, is another reason your slot bothers me. You may have a track record of making baseless orders and expecting people to just follow them (and hey, some people are!), but I highly doubt townNabe would consider that reasonable play. I want him to really weigh in on this.

Dabuz is not the play. He is flat null. He is usually null in the games he plays; that's what makes him such an easy scapegoat for the mafia. He has not done (nor avoided doing) anything that makes him clearly scum. Yet he has garnered quite a bit of scum calling from the mob already. Because of this, I'm forced to conclude that the hate directed toward Dabuz cannot all be well-intentioned. If you have a read on Dabuz that leans strongly on either side of null, you are probably bull****ing somewhere. You are doing this because you either know he's an easy mislynch, as I've stated, or you are his scumbuddy and are getting that bus going before he can even make any actual scum slips. Either way, it's anti-town. That's truly my stance on this right now. No one has any reason to be pushing for Dabuz's lynch; that has been made perfectly clear by the fact that not one person on his wagon has given a single decent reason for why they want him dead.

I would sooner see any one of the Dabuz wagoners go toDay before Dabuz. No Hetero, Soup, Omni and Kary can all eat a bullet for all I care (in roughly that order, I think, but the Day is young).

How is it possible that, of all the players on this roster, I'm mind-linking best with Gheb right now?

 

[Death Bear]

@Dabuz

I want you to go over your strongest pick for who should die today, and I want you to tell me why you want to go those ways. Show me your thought process.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

this gheb.

10 this's

I can definitely see that, yeah.

 

[Death Bear]

people wonder why i like jerkus; because he just said what i said only made it look pretty

 

[Omni]

this is the posts u should be quoting

I'm not too sure how much thought you put into this.

Being King makes you immune to a day lynch and gives you the ability to lynch another person. That's it. A temporary gain of status that can (and most likely) be transferred to another person the next day.

Theoretically speaking all of us can do whatever we want. That doesn't mean we can be any less accountable for own actions and responsible for deciphering other player's actions.

Your logic + odd usage of the term "town" in your statement makes me lean airhead town. Doubt scum would be that wreckless this early into the game.

Vote: Dabuz

How do you feel about my read on you and the reasoning behind it?

gheb responds and it's utter trash

Oh, we haven't played Mafia together before. Hi, I'm Omni. I'm more than willing to lynch a player if I think they're treading the dumb/scum line D1 (sometimes D2) because if you're town scum will just keep you alive and kill off someone more helpful. If you're scum, then we lynch scum. It's a win-win.

Regardless, I have a feeling that I'm not going to get much out of you. You don't seem to be putting a lot of thought behind your words. Even when introduced to logical reasoning, you still do not understand the concept of reliablity and what we lose if the King is not held accountable.

from this point forward Dabuz has done nothing to make me think he should live. i sense no passion nor actual resolve to actually scumhunt. he seems lazy. he could be dodging. i have no idea, but i dont want him alive.


@jbear: that has been my reasoning and if u disagreed with it, why are you waiting 2 days later to finally address it? i understand making an argument on me would be opportune with Gheb flailing his arms like "look at omni. look at marshy" but im curious as to your timing.

regardless, if u disagree with me, you disagree with me. this philosophy has always stuck with me. dumb/scum can go. and i havent found Soup scummy enough for me to choose him over Dabuz. he's currently the only player that i have leaning less than neutral on reads, but my gut instinct and feeling on his odd verbiage is not enough for me to feel that he needs to be the lynch for the day.

if u have a problem with the way i play, then tell me.
and if u think the way i play is scummy, then tell me.

but dont bring this up like this is some kind of new news.

 

[Death Bear]

This sentence is where death lives. Call it down and yea, so shall it be.

I don't follow you here.

 

[Omni]

Dabuz is not the play. He is flat null. He is usually null in the games he plays; that's what makes him such an easy scapegoat for the mafia. He has not done (nor avoided doing) anything that makes him clearly scum. Yet he has garnered quite a bit of scum calling from the mob already. Because of this, I'm forced to conclude that the hate directed toward Dabuz cannot all be well-intentioned. If you have a read on Dabuz that leans strongly on either side of null, you are probably bull****ing somewhere. You are doing this because you either know he's an easy mislynch, as I've stated, or you are his scumbuddy and are getting that bus going before he can even make any actual scum slips. Either way, it's anti-town. That's truly my stance on this right now. No one has any reason to be pushing for Dabuz's lynch; that has been made perfectly clear by the fact that not one person on his wagon has given a single decent reason for why they want him dead.

I would sooner see any one of the Dabuz wagoners go toDay before Dabuz.

this is actually another reason why my vote has been on Soup. people can vote me for spearheading Dabuz for all the want, w/e. but they can't claim that i've somehow painted him as scum. he's disposable and i find him particularly useful to have by late game. *shrug* it is what it is.

i dont disagree with you about wagoners going and/or being pressured the **** out of. i've been extra happy with dbear's performance because he has been calling me out whenever he has had the chance (in a much more sensible manner than gheb himself). but i still think dabuz is a great play.

i think it's much more dangerous to play this sort of game as the days go by or if we're not in a lead as town, but do you really think dabuz' slot is a current asset to the game as of now?

 

[Omni]

EBWOP: Dabuz responds and its utter trash. for some reason, my brain is getting trash and the name Gheb confused. weird, right?

 

[Omni]

man, dabuz is such a great play today.

1.) we get rid of a liability
2.) we've got a third of the game wagoning his lynch for different reasons that can be traced (me, marshy, kary, i believe soup at some point)
3.) we've got a third of the game defending his wagon (gheb, dbear, jdietz, jerkus, maybe some others)
4.) and then we've got the rest who have spoken about Dabuz but don't have very clear intentions on if he should live or not (hando, not sure about bardull, etc.)

it's just... so right

 

[Death Bear]

@jbear: that has been my reasoning and if u disagreed with it, why are you waiting 2 days later to finally address it? i understand making an argument on me would be opportune with Gheb flailing his arms like "look at omni. look at marshy" but im curious as to your timing.

regardless, if u disagree with me, you disagree with me. this philosophy has always stuck with me. dumb/scum can go. and i havent found Soup scummy enough for me to choose him over Dabuz. he's currently the only player that i have leaning less than neutral on reads, but my gut instinct and feeling on his odd verbiage is not enough for me to feel that he needs to be the lynch for the day.

if u have a problem with the way i play, then tell me.
and if u think the way i play is scummy, then tell me.

but dont bring this up like this is some kind of new news.

This is the other half.

I am skeptical. I have a problem pushing Dabuz on this alone over Soup who is your strongest scum pick. But past meta makes me know you do this a lot. I know you play for the endgame better lylo, and it's fine when the dumb is very apparent it more likely it is scum, here, there are better picks for someone being scum in your thought process. But you ignore it, I don't see why not picking the better scum pick over the "air headed" town is better. Connection wise, I just see people white knighting Dabuz and people hopping on him.

This is why I am kinda ok with No Hetero, he actually thinks Dabuz is scum and not null when wanting him dead. Shows his distain for others and gives me a more consistent thought process.

You though, there is a gap I'm delving into. Something that the Ruy half is not a fan off.

:hpfox:

 

[Jerkus]

Dabuz is not an asset to this town.

But letting him get ****ed out of here on virtually no basis because Marshy holds intrinsic sway in Dgames and he shouted about it long enough is specifically detrimental if Dabuz is town. We can't let that be how we decide executions in this game, or scum's going to run us over. The Day 1 lynch doesn't have to be a throwaway.

I don't quite get what you mean by "this is another reason why my vote has been on Soup." Do you mean that the way I described Dabuz is also applicable to Soup, or do you dislike Soup because he falls into the category of "people who want Dabuz dead for no reason?"

 

[Omni]

i just told you that my scumread on Soup is not strong enough for me to merit his lynch over Dabuz. Dabuz' flip will validate and strengthen my scum read or possible remove it.

it's strange tho because you think it's ok that No Hetero thinks Dabuz is scum; not null. jerkus just now mentions that there is no reason to find him anywhere outside of null (which i kinda agree with). so do you disagree with Jerkus? or do you agree with No Hetero? i'd like to see your stance between those two.

 

[Death Bear]

1.) we get rid of a liability

With many people having near zero attempts at trying to read him.

2.) we've got a third of the game wagoning his lynch for different reasons that can be traced (me, marshy, kary, i believe soup at some point)

3.) we've got a third of the game defending his wagon (gheb, dbear, jdietz, jerkus, maybe some others)

Other wagons are better telling and more concrete with connections, Dabuz has people with a lot of flimsy connections, one a few people on each side have solid connections, most people don't.

I'm not defending him, but I want Soup and Kary or even maybe you, to eat a bullet first.

4.) and then we've got the rest who have spoken about Dabuz but don't have very clear intentions on if he should live or not (hando, not sure about bardull, etc.)

This isn't a good thing if Dabuz is "airhead" town

 

[Omni]

Dabuz is not an asset to this town.

But letting him get ****ed out of here on virtually no basis because Marshy holds intrinsic sway in Dgames and he shouted about it long enough is specifically detrimental if Dabuz is town. We can't let that be how we decide executions in this game, or scum's going to run us over. The Day 1 lynch doesn't have to be a throwaway.

I don't quite get what you mean by "this is another reason why my vote has been on Soup." Do you mean that the way I described Dabuz is also applicable to Soup, or do you dislike Soup because he falls into the category of "people who want Dabuz dead for no reason?"

i mean... i want Dabuz dead cuz i want him dead; not cuz of Marshy. it just so happens that Marshy agrees with me, but i don't think marshy is "running" anything. then again, if u think he is then you've gotta pinpoint who you think the sheep are following his lead. i dont think Dabuz is a throwaway... i think his death will net in tons of info and him surviving brings nothing to the table except question and stronger players being lynched in place of him

the other reason was that Soup mentioned earlier in the game that he found Dabuz scummy. which was weird because i didn't understand how one could. i immediately followed up on this by telling him he started making me feel uncomfortable and i narrowed him down to my first "this guy is fishy; could be scum" suspect. do a small reread on Soup and i believe you'll see what im referring to

 

[Death Bear]

i just told you that my scumread on Soup is not strong enough for me to merit his lynch over Dabuz. Dabuz' flip will validate and strengthen my scum read or possible remove it.

it's strange tho because you think it's ok that No Hetero thinks Dabuz is scum; not null. jerkus just now mentions that there is no reason to find him anywhere outside of null (which i kinda agree with). so do you disagree with Jerkus? or do you agree with No Hetero? i'd like to see your stance between those two.

Scum read is not strong enough, let's kill a null read instead because he may be useless.

Sorry I do not follow here.

 

[Omni]

With many people having near zero attempts at trying to read him.

name those people. i actually have seen quite a few people making reads on him.

Other wagons are better telling and more concrete with connections, Dabuz has people with a lot of flimsy connections, one a few people on each side have solid connections, most people don't.

I'm not defending him, but I want Soup and Kary or even maybe you, to eat a bullet first.

soup i can understand. kary i havent been paying attention to. me, no. u stop that.

This isn't a good thing if Dabuz is "airhead" town

was airhead town initially. but then after his response to my explanation to him about how Kingmaker can't just flaunt around and do w/e they want then i deemed him either scum or dumb. an airhead town makes me think of.. bardull... he's not really an airhead, but i think his town tries become more anti-town then he thinks, but i don't find that anti-town behavior as a scum tell.

read dabuz one more time and tell me that u think he's looking for scum legitimately.

 

[Death Bear]

Saw ryker posted.

Saw he mentioned he'd be doing 90% of the work

RykEEr 90% scum read from Rake side due to rule no.1

I also like everything Ryu is doing right now.

but he needs to use our hyrda QT more @_@ xD

 

[Omni]

Scum read is not strong enough, let's kill a null read instead because he may be useless.

Sorry I do not follow here.

lol, you do follow. you just don't agree with me. and it's not may; he is. he's not creating enough connections. he's making excuses. his questions are surface layer. what is transmitted out of his slow is so unsubstantial. his death gives us more information than him being alive will ever be. scum will not kill him; they will keep him alive as long as possible because players like him counterproductive to town play. they may not always be scum, but when they do flip town it sets an example and if he is scum, we get rid of a potential player who would probably ride the bleacher seats as far as possible while still maintaining the same level of consistency.

i dont see improvement on his part. and if he's kept alive we're gonna regret it. sure of it.

 

[Omni]

ebwop: his slot*, like him are*

i dont think there's anything about my stance that people don't understand at this point. so i would rather people agree that they want me to die either because:

a.) i'm scummy and/or
b.) they don't like my ideals

because sitting on either one side of those points needs to be made clear for future reads down the road

 

[Jerkus]

i mean... i want Dabuz dead cuz i want him dead; not cuz of Marshy. it just so happens that Marshy agrees with me, but i don't think marshy is "running" anything. then again, if u think he is then you've gotta pinpoint who you think the sheep are following his lead. i dont think Dabuz is a throwaway... i think his death will net in tons of info and him surviving brings nothing to the table except question and stronger players being lynched in place of him

Okay, but you clearly only want him dead because you just don't think he'll be easy to read and you don't want to have to deal with that. And you're afraid to get rid of "stronger players." Guess what: Sometimes, one of the stronger players is scum. And that makes that player the better lynch.

You say Dabuz's flip is the most informative, regardless of his alignment. If Dabuz flipped town right now, what information would that net you?

I'm also confused about why you seem to agree with my basic point that people expressing suspicion of Dabuz are themselves suspicious, yet you would still prefer to lynch Dabuz because "information and he's useless and stuff." It's like you're actively trying to avoid better lynch options.

@Dabuz: It would actually be awesome if you were here and participating in this discussion. If you're lurking, stop.

 

[Omni]

Okay, but you clearly only want him dead because you just don't think he'll be easy to read and you don't want to have to deal with that. And you're afraid to get rid of "stronger players." Guess what: Sometimes, one of the stronger players is scum. And that makes that player the better lynch.

by stronger i mean people who are going to create connections. participate in the game. make solid stances. scumhunt properly. notice how im currently hating Gheb's guts at the moments and i'd love to put a bullet through his head for sheer stupidity but i still don't find him scummy. im agitated and slightly confused cuz i've never seen Gheb play like this, but he is a strong player and a good one to keep because he will continue to make strong stances regardless if his basis are weak or flimsy IMO

You say Dabuz's flip is the most informative, regardless of his alignment. If Dabuz flipped town right now, what information would that net you?

lol, i was under the impression you were a bit more seasoned than others. do u think it would do more good than harm for me to answer this question

I'm also confused about why you seem to agree with my basic point that people expressing suspicion of Dabuz are themselves suspicious, yet you would still prefer to lynch Dabuz because "information and he's useless and stuff." It's like you're actively trying to avoid better lynch options.

hm. this is actually a really good point. but im not trying to avoid it. i admit i am tunneling into dabuz and i think he's #1 dead guy NA at the moment, but i've expressed my desire and content for Soup also dying as well as an option. i would be a little sad to see Dabuz still be alive, but i wouldn't be exceptionally upset if Soup was the other go to guy

 

[Omni]

on that note, im stepping back for realzies this time. been procrastinating all day at work cuz of this thread, lol. i'll be back after work today

 

[Handorin]

Gheb, B-dull and Jditzy are the only ones making any sense in here. Anyone who thinks any of those slots are scum right now isn't using their head (or is scum).

Soup, stop sheeping all the hunky power players; watching you flip onto Kary when it starts to look like it's what you should be doing and then start **** riding Marshy and trying to HBC Dabuz for no reason is making me queasy. I know you're better than this (if you're town).

Marshy, do not engage with me again if you're not going to do so substantively. You yourself admit that Nabe probably doesn't really endorse the way you're representing your slot right now (although he's essentially doing so by not condemning it). If that's true, then let him talk when he gets a chance. I have nothing to say to you because you have brick walls where your ears should be.

Frankly, the fact that Nabe even exists to counter you, and yet has not done so, is another reason your slot bothers me. You may have a track record of making baseless orders and expecting people to just follow them (and hey, some people are!), but I highly doubt townNabe would consider that reasonable play. I want him to really weigh in on this.

Dabuz is not the play. He is flat null. He is usually null in the games he plays; that's what makes him such an easy scapegoat for the mafia. He has not done (nor avoided doing) anything that makes him clearly scum. Yet he has garnered quite a bit of scum calling from the mob already. Because of this, I'm forced to conclude that the hate directed toward Dabuz cannot all be well-intentioned. If you have a read on Dabuz that leans strongly on either side of null, you are probably bull****ing somewhere. You are doing this because you either know he's an easy mislynch, as I've stated, or you are his scumbuddy and are getting that bus going before he can even make any actual scum slips. Either way, it's anti-town. That's truly my stance on this right now. No one has any reason to be pushing for Dabuz's lynch; that has been made perfectly clear by the fact that not one person on his wagon has given a single decent reason for why they want him dead.

I would sooner see any one of the Dabuz wagoners go toDay before Dabuz. No Hetero, Soup, Omni and Kary can all eat a bullet for all I care (in roughly that order, I think, but the Day is young).

How is it possible that, of all the players on this roster, I'm mind-linking best with Gheb right now?

This is pretty much what I think as well. Although I think dabuz could be at least an acceptable lynch, but not necessarily over others. I wouldn't put NH at the top of a lynch pool though.

 

[BSP]

This is exactly why I asked everyone where you go on Dabuz flips

 

[Omni]

sry couldnt help myself

dbear, u never answerd my question in #742

 

[Omni]

This is exactly why I asked everyone where you go on Dabuz flips

that's not a good question to be asking. making people create stances onto "where they'll go to next" after a flip BEFORE the flip is like handing mafia over the perfect lynch candidate to manipulate said decisions.

"lynching dabuz will give me good information on his bus. there's a lot of people on there." - that's good

"if gheb flips scum, then im going to vote jerkus. if he flips town, im going to vote omni." - that's bad

it's also the reason why i didnt answer Jerkus' question about what i'd do specifically based on Dabuz' flip. u have to be able to interpret and keep some things to yourself as opposed to putting all the cards out for scum to manipulate through night kills.

 

[Mastermind]

Bottom of page four. Want Bardull dead. See NH already voting Dabuz and can feel that migraine starting.

 

[Mastermind]

call me when you need a townie

Kary, if I were to put up the only two candidates to be shot today as Gheb and Omni, who would you want gone?

 

[Mastermind]

NH, read on Hando.
Bardull, read on NH.

 

[BSP]

You're missing my early game interrogation of Dabuz and the main underlying factor why I wanted to started a train on him in the first place. It's never been an issue that Dabuz was auto-scum. I've stated several times that I find Soup to be more scummy than Dabuz himself and I've explained why. Jdietz suggesting that I find Dabuz scummy is him not being thorough in his research or reads on me.

Dabuz needs to die because there's no reason to keep him alive. He's either dumb or scum. I don't like his slot existing. And as it being D1 he's disposable. Win-win.

Ok, but that's what not making sense to me. Why wouldn't you want your top scum pick lynched right now?

Dabuz is a liability as you've said, nothing more, right? Why don't we just worry about him later and take out who you actually think might be scum now?

regardless, if u disagree with me, you disagree with me. this philosophy has always stuck with me. dumb/scum can go. and i havent found Soup scummy enough for me to choose him over Dabuz. he's currently the only player that i have leaning less than neutral on reads, but my gut instinct and feeling on his odd verbiage is not enough for me to feel that he needs to be the lynch for the day.

if u have a problem with the way i play, then tell me.
and if u think the way i play is scummy, then tell me.

but dont bring this up like this is some kind of new news.

Odd, because you've actually called Soup scum while you've mostly been going back and forth on Dabuz being dumb and scum

man, dabuz is such a great play today.

1.) we get rid of a liability

Why is that a priority toDay? I can understand the day before LyLo, but why can't we just lynch him toMorrow when you've even admitted there is someone you think is scummier here right now?

2.) we've got a third of the game wagoning his lynch for different reasons that can be traced (me, marshy, kary, i believe soup at some point)

This point applies even if Dabuz isn't lynched toDay. Why not look into this now? None of you have even made a good case on Dabuz (don't just say he's a liability).

3.) we've got a third of the game defending his wagon (gheb, dbear, jdietz, jerkus, maybe some others)

Again, you don't need a flip to look into this now. Dabuz's play has been lackluster right now. Why not ask people why they're defending against his lynch?

4.) and then we've got the rest who have spoken about Dabuz but don't have very clear intentions on if he should live or not (hando, not sure about bardull, etc.)

Again, why not just question them about it right now?

In other words, I'm not seeing how a flip of Dabuz is necessary to look into anything you just mentioned.

 

[BSP]

that's not a good question to be asking. making people create stances onto "where they'll go to next" after a flip BEFORE the flip is like handing mafia over the perfect lynch candidate to manipulate said decisions.

"lynching dabuz will give me good information on his bus. there's a lot of people on there." - that's good

"if gheb flips scum, then im going to vote jerkus. if he flips town, im going to vote omni." - that's bad

it's also the reason why i didnt answer Jerkus' question about what i'd do specifically based on Dabuz' flip. u have to be able to interpret and keep some things to yourself as opposed to putting all the cards out for scum to manipulate through night kills.

Ok, this makes sense

But on the flip side, when I ask and see responses, I think I can figure out whether people are really thinking their votes/reads/lynch options through.

 

[Mastermind]

I hate NH on principle, but so far I do not hate the direction of his push.

Bottom of page 7, want Hando, Dabuz, and Bardull gone. In that order.

 

[Mastermind]

Also can we get some substantiation from everyone who's citing Dabuz as their pick (so far iirc that's Kary, No Hetero, Omni, and Soup)

I re-skimmed his posts to see where these votes were coming from and all I could find for reasoning is the opinion that BSP should handle being King the way he wants to, which I agree with. We'll figure out if we feel BSP was being a good or bad, townie or scummy king after we analyze what he does of his own accord, not by telling him what to do and watching.

I'm fine with him because he's hyper defensive and not DOING anything aside from worrying about his hide at the moment.