Masquerade Mafia / Mafia Wins!

[Corps phoenix]

I don't care what you think is suitable or not, my first answer is true.

Then tell me. What did you mistake that for, since you said it was a mixup.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Actually, I was genuinely curious about the nature of the claim. "True Name" could refer to our normal accounts or our role IDs, and if I were Mafia, would I have really given Polish the opportunity to reveal my identity? The whole "he may or may not be town" bit was so that people wouldn't auto-confirm him if I corroborated that is ability is real.

The red is exactly what I am saying you thought he had information. To your second question, you would regardless of alignment. (Mafia would definitely not say "No, you may not") The part that is odd is that you were making sure people know he wasn't exactly cleared for giving a result on you, before he even gave results. How could you be sure he may or may not be town before he gave a result, and isn't that a given to each person that isn't you anyway, so why feel the need to point that out? What exactly about his name gave you that feeling (why did you come to that conclusion)?

Now that time has passed, what is your observation of his opening and discussion to you now?

 

[OrangeXhtml]

Then tell me. What did you mistake that for, since you said it was a mixup.

I accidentally said "mislynch" because it was midnight, I can't operate well past 10:30 PM, I was thinking about the probability of Ran getting mislynched, and then since I was thinking about a mislynch, I accidentally entered "mislynch" instead of "lynch" into my post.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Ah, ok. So let me fix the original quote for you:

I tend to agree with this. Mavman seems a tad scummy, but I'm not willing to go as far as to lynch him off of it yet unless there is about to be a mislynch lynch.

Is this correct? You wouldn't lynch Mavman for it unless there was about to be a lynch? Does that make sense to you?

 

[OrangeXhtml]

The red is exactly what I am saying you thought he had information. To your second question, you would regardless of alignment. (Mafia would definitely not say "No, you may not")

Yeah, but I could've probably made the point that there could be a scum-alligned player with a demasked-based role. That would have guaranteed nothing would happen. I didn't put much thought into that possibility of the time, but I sure as heck woulda put more thought into that before saying "you're free to reveal whatever you want". In addition, I've played with someone that has claimed D0 cop before and tried to gambit me, so I was taking that into consideration.

The part that is odd is that you were making sure people know he wasn't exactly cleared for giving a result on you, before he even gave results. How could you be sure he may or may not be town before he gave a result, and isn't that a given to each person that isn't you anyway, so why feel the need to point that out? What exactly about his name gave you that feeling (why did you come to that conclusion)?

I felt the need to point that out because in a game with that amount of activity, Polish could have assumed automatic, complete thread control if someone assumed he was more townie for having a confirmed role.

Now that time has passed, what is your observation of his opening and discussion to you now?

I think that his opening could have been better if he started it on a useful topic, but it fueled discussion that could have possibly lead to a slip. The fact that you're bringing up points from that phase speaks to the fact it brought us out of RVS, so I think his opening was still mostly effective.

Ah, ok. So let me fix the original quote for you:



Is this correct? You wouldn't lynch Mavman for it unless there was about to be a lynch? Does that make sense to you?

Add a no before lynch and that is correct. I was too busy re-reading to go back and search for the original quote, so I just looked at the "about to be a mislynch" and assumed that I mixed up the mislynch vs lynch instead of the mis vs no. My B.

 

[OrangeXhtml]

EDIT: Last sentence of first response block is meant to refer to why I thought that it might be role-based.

 

[OrangeXhtml]

(By the way, not role cop. Just got to that part.)

 

[Corps phoenix]

Important: What exactly about polish's name gave you that feeling of town or not town (why did you come to that conclusion)?

---

So from mislynch, to lynch, to no lynch. The first makes the most sense, because if someone knew that a lynch was going to become a mislynch, they would certainly switch. Yet only mafia know who is town and who is not. Saying lynch does not make sense, because you'd need a different reason. (Lynch mavin because you know a person is about to be lynched? Incomplete) and I wonder why you didn't check hard enough before your clarification. No lynch seems to be closer to something that could be why you made a mistake, but I would like for you to elaborate on that. (As I am not sure how it stacks up)

I tend to agree with this. Mavman seems a tad scummy, but I'm not willing to go as far as to lynch him off of it yet unless there is about to be a mislynch lynch no lynch. In addition, if anyone votes for him at this point, he'll be at L-1 with 2 days to go in the phase; if he's town, scum could take advantage of that and get an easy mislynch.

Can you please elaborate on this. Why wouldn't you go towards Mavman unless there was a no lynch?

 

[OrangeXhtml]

Important: What exactly about polish's name gave you that feeling of town or not town (why did you come to that conclusion)?

It was more of the description. I didn't see anyone named Leviathan as a player. I forgot to search the #HBC tag (I think I said this early-game?), so I figured Leviathan was a role. In addition, because I didn't have reference to any of Polish's games, I didn't know that was his posting style was naturally pompous and middle-English, and I guess the way he spoke made me think he had a superiority complex.

---

So from mislynch, to lynch, to no lynch. The first makes the most sense, because if someone knew that a lynch was going to become a mislynch, they would certainly switch. Yet only mafia know who is town and who is not. Saying lynch does not make sense, because you'd need a different reason. (Lynch mavin because you know a person is about to be lynched? Incomplete) and I wonder why you didn't check hard enough before your clarification.[/quote]
I didn't check because I wanted to be all caught up before bedtime (which is in approximately 5-10 minutes).

Can you please elaborate on this. Why wouldn't you go towards Mavman unless there was a no lynch?

Because I wanted to avoid a NL; I would have voted Mavman and try to have someone hammer if we got to that point. He appeared townie-ish, but I would still take Barman's flip over Polish's and since he was already L-2 (Moro & MOD X 2), that was pretty much the only other possible slot to swing a lynch for that phase. Keep in mind I also thought that the phase was ending a day earlier than it actually did, so I was looking for possible compromise lynch routes if Ran didn't work out.

 

[Corps phoenix]

but I wouldn't say that the claim is a very town move either.

Ok. So why did you say this? Do you still believe this? If not, please explain what you think about the claim now.

Finally, what is your read on Maven?

 

[OrangeXhtml]

Ok. So why did you say this? Do you still believe this? If not, please explain what you think about the claim now.

I do not believe this anymore. I said this initially because I was thinking purely of the fact that if the claim was in fact true (however unlikely it is), it could have possibly been fishing for more, real claims and if he were the unmasked-ability scum role (does scum include indie? If not, the scum/indie role), knowing everyone's IDs early-game could have provided him with a HUGE advantage. In hindsight, however, I don't think this is the case. Someone pointed out a while ago that such an ability would be unlikely because the original setup had unmasking as a death penalty, so I think Polish was just trying to generate as much conversation as possible, while still masking his/her identity with a safe and fake one.

Finally, what is your read on Maven?

I think that Barman played very townie D1, considered all viewpoints and had unique perspectives. Some of his D1 play made sense as scum, but you'd have to put it in a negative light to actually get anywhere, as there isn't much solid evidence against him. His absence D2, however, is very worrisome. It's one day before the phase ends and he's contributed pretty much nothing for today. Seeing as he's actually been active in his other game, that means he hasn't been too busy to play mafia and that gives a possibility of him coasting scum. While he has posted in-thread about giving input from BarMaven on the state of things, he's yet to actually come and do it. I'd be a little uncomfortable with you or Twitchy dying today (unless either of you do anything significantly scummy) as it would leave town with very little direction, you've both been very open on your opinions on the thread, and I've found your contrasting PoVs very useful in making my own opinions on the state of the thread. I think that Polish is still town-ish, Moro's tunneling for two days in a row and then absence since yesterday is worrisome, and Aqua has been getting too much credit for too little content. I really have to go to bed right now, but I'm comfortable enough with the lack of unmasked-based abilities based on the game setup to do this:

@Polishnapkin Reveal my identity. Don't bother asking me if I really want this unless you have a REALLY good reason for me not to, because my answer will be yes. It's time to see if the ability claim was legit or gambit.

 

[Aquariusboy]

Twitch, I can now understand why you have had the 'strong dislike' of my reads, especially Polish. I want you to understand that I was wrong, and want you to try to see from my point of view. Your sudden turn at the beginning of Day 2 was very odd. Cops usually leave crumbs, and not sudden unexplained read changes. Saying things like "It came to me..." just sounds like lies. Voting Morosemist on the basis of a 'blatant lie' seemed very weak. You, as cop, have played a weak cop game, and I wasn't expecting it. I would hope your future games, you play the cop role a bit more conservatively. Yet you are still the cop, and these two (Orange and Barman) are not even around much, Barman less so. I have come to my senses. I truly believed you and Polish were scum, and now truly realize that I was wrong. It happens.

Now please consider my two new avenues, which thankfully from realizing you and Polish are clear, I have found. I strongly feel you and Polish are wrong on Rose, and I have already explained why. I am willing to converse more. Yet time is of the essence! We have until tomorrow, Monday. I have been up all night constructing these posts. I feel we have something with these two cases. I want you to tell me what you think of my overall play, in addition to my push on you. Don't solely focus on that alone. I will most likely be going to sleep soon, unless anything keeps me stimulated. Good night. (Or morning)

Why have you immediately bent to Twitchy's claim without discussing it with him?

I've never seen a role cop that gets results of "VT" that actually confirm town alignment rather than "no ability".

 

[Corps phoenix]

I simply assumed he thought it meant he was town, even though I already stated that a mafia godfather can reflect a result of VT as well.

I had asked him quite a bit of questions before unvoting, and started to move in the direction of Orange and Barman, because of their lack of presence. I wasn't going to be stubborn about it. I wanted to wait for others reactions, but it has been really slow. So I started re-reading in the case that he was telling the truth.

What are your thoughts on current events?

 

[Aquariusboy]

T Twitchybanana
What was the wording of your result, and can you ask the mod if you've interpreted it correctly?

 

[Corps phoenix]

Also, I was waiting on others thoughts before talking about Morose. So I quickly posted those thoughts because there is little time to digest everything, so I pushed it back. It's why I stayed up last night to make the two new cases. Deadline is tomorrow. So all my thoughts are on the table. Finally, Twitchy was on mobile so I wasn't able to get more of a discussion from him.

That's it.

 

[Aquariusboy]

I simply assumed he thought it meant he was town, even though I already stated that a mafia godfather can reflect a result of VT as well.

I had asked him quite a bit of questions before unvoting, and started to move in the direction of Orange and Barman, because of their lack of presence. I wasn't going to be stubborn about it. I wanted to wait for others reactions, but it has been really slow. So I started re-reading in the case that he was telling the truth.

What are your thoughts on current events?

Currently I'm catching up, but on initial thought I don't see why you've singled out Barman and Orange over Morose, who still hasn't redeemed himself from talking about anyone but Barman and then leaving once called on it.

(For the record I still don't think Barman is scum, or at least, if he is: not for what he did D1. I can see where you're coming from in your Orange/Barman scumteam post, but it seems like a reach from what I know of Maven)

 

[Aquariusboy]

I'll read the cases though.

 

[Aquariusboy]

Also, I was waiting on others thoughts before talking about Morose. So I quickly posted those thoughts because there is little time to digest everything, so I pushed it back. It's why I stayed up last night to make the two new cases. Deadline is tomorrow. So all my thoughts are on the table. Finally, Twitchy was on mobile so I wasn't able to get more of a discussion from him.

That's it.

Ah, nix that ninja'd question then.

 

[Corps phoenix]

but it seems like a reach from what I know of Maven)

You keep bringing this up. You are going to have to elaborate, and bring forth examples.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Currently I'm catching up, but on initial thought I don't see why you've singled out Barman and Orange over Morose, who still hasn't redeemed himself from talking about anyone but Barman and then leaving once called on it.

I don't see why you think I'd default to Morose automatically though? You might find your answer as you catch up. I need you to give reads too, actually. I agree that I'd like to see reads from Morose. I want some tonight, since you are here.

 

[Aquariusboy]

You keep bringing this up. You are going to have to elaborate, and bring forth examples.

Read the first 3 pages of Gheb's ongoing game, wordsearch for "****garden", then skip ahead to where he's Un-CC'd Town Tracker.

 

[Aquariusboy]

EBWOP: It's an open setup, so that claim means he's what he claims to be.

Unvote

Forgot to do that while we wait for Twitch to verify with the mod.

 

[Corps phoenix]

It is an open setup?

 

[Aquariusboy]

It is an open setup. I.E. all roles in the are known beforehand. No one also claiming to be tracker means though he's currently still alive: he is Town Tracker.

 

[Corps phoenix]

That is odd. OP says this is an closed setup. Where did you get that from?

 

[Aquariusboy]

That is odd. OP says this is an closed setup. Where did you get that from?

I'm talking about Gheb's game, wherein you should be looking for a more accurate read of Maven.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Oh, my mistake. I'll look into that. Carry on with your catch up.

 

[Twitchybanana]

Thats a lot of thread. I haven't read anything since I last posted but the thing aqua tagged me in. Aqua, Soup has informed me I misinterpreted the result -- Polish isn't necessarily townie.

Now then, we are not no-lynching today, but I'm not going to read up/make a big post right now. I'll do that IRL tomorrow. But for now, ima VOTE: Orange.
Somebody tag me if something really major happens or if you need me immediately... Other than that I'll deal with recent happenings in the morning. If orange is a mislynch, body corps for me. I really don't like his arguments/if orange is a ML he's scum.

 

[Aquariusboy]

Spoiler: Orange Quotes and Context

1. There is no 'wifom' that will stop people from guessing a person is lying about their role or not. It's the same as any standard game. If this were true, no one would know to consider a town cop claim to be genuine or not. Why would Twitchy consider that he may be night killed if 'scum might not know if he's a pr or not'. Frankly, Maven's claim that scum won't know is bull****. Orange stating he believes this, is bull, especially after one post.

Spoiler: Orange Quotes and Context

Can you explain what you're getting at in this post?

 

[Aquariusboy]

Fixing formatting:

1. There is no 'wifom' that will stop people from guessing a person is lying about their role or not. It's the same as any standard game. If this were true, no one would know to consider a town cop claim to be genuine or not. Why would Twitchy consider that he may be night killed if 'scum might not know if he's a pr or not'. Frankly, Maven's claim that scum won't know is bull****. Orange stating he believes this, is bull, especially after one post.

Can you explain what you're getting at in this post?

 

[Twitchybanana]

Seriously, I can't stress this enough. All of Corps' arguments are really, really bad -- but not bad enough to make the implausible/not necessarily intentional. That's why I'm not voting him toDay. If he's wrong, you guys NEED to kill him (or aquarius? He's coasting really hardcore, but hasn't done anything scummy other than that) toMorrow.

 

[Twitchybanana]

Also, I'd look at mist or aqua for Corps' potential partner if he is scum. Aqua's coasting is Janky, and idk about Corps' defense of Mist. Still haven't read, just getting this in in case someone hammers while I sleep.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Twitch, it feels like you are ignoring what I have to say in my #319. Do respond to it if you are going to keep this up. I would say your argument is pretty bad. How much experience in mafia do you have by the way? If you feel my arguments are bad, why not find something better? You also agreed to one of my points that you then stated "I dislike this argument." This is getting annoying from you, and you are supposed to be town role cop.

Aqua, I'll get to that in a moment.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Actually, I still don't understand how you keep mentioning Aqua lurking when Barman/Maven has only posted once in D2, when deadline is tomorrow. Talk to me about that.

 

[Corps phoenix]

2. Mafia can't know if I'm really a vanilla townie or a PR whose just claiming to be one, therefore this discussion can't really narrow anything down

My point is that there isn't a way for anyone to 'not know'. Like I said, this is the same as a standard game. So him claiming VT here isn't any different then claiming in VT in another game. Otherwise there is a mechanic I don't know about that everyone seems to assume is there. If I'm wrong, please do tell me why they can't know. Yet I've already explained how mafia can narrow down the list for PR's in normal games, and that shouldn't change here. Can I have some reads from you, Aqua?

 

[Aquariusboy]

Well. At the moment I'd like the lynch to be Orange or Morose. There's been a few too many slips and outright refusals to help from Orange for me to feel comfortable keeping him as newb town. I can swallow the early game Polish name-claim thing as newness, but it doesn't feel like his responses to your "mislynch" questioning are truthful (I don't really care if he mistyped mislynch, but I do care that he seems to want to hide it). I also don't believe what you're interpreting from Morose should be considered town, I still see a player railing against the slot that he perceived as the worst and safest to push, not scummiest; but he's been quite hard to do anything with considering he's not here. In addition, I still think your reasoning to include Barman as a suspect are a reach (I'm inclined to give him benefit of the doubt on time spent in the other game), though I would give it a second look if Orange flipped scum.

For the record. I'm not a big fan of the way you treated the Twitchy claim off the bat. Based on how thorough you've been with all your other investigations I'd have expected you to question him more about the situation, but you seemed to quickly back off and also include Polish as "clear" with an apology post, like you had stepped on a viper and wanted nothing more to do with it.

I'd also sincerely appreciate Polish making a return and confirming or de-confirming the Twitchy claim.

 

[Aquariusboy]

In case I can't be around tomorrow:

Vote: Orange

Of the two I'm comfortable lynching today, Orange by far gives the most information.

Aqua, I'll get to that in a moment.

If you could.

I can't stay any longer tonight, but I do very much think understanding what you're talking about here is important to reading you vs Twitch.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Well, I can go further. My main point was shown above with the Maven quote. Yet, with the Twitchy example: He claimed cop. Wouldn't that also be a 'wifomy' claim if such wifom existed? Yet, you and I at least consider it may be plausible. Twitch was arguing that Morose was blatantly lying about Maven, because of the wifom statement, yet he himself claimed cop. So, for him to claim that, he would have to disagree with Maven's 2nd point that I quoted.

That's it.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Preparing for work. Will get off at 2pm est.

 

[OrangeXhtml]

Thats a lot of thread. I haven't read anything since I last posted but the thing aqua tagged me in. Aqua, Soup has informed me I misinterpreted the result -- Polish isn't necessarily townie.

Now then, we are not no-lynching today, but I'm not going to read up/make a big post right now. I'll do that IRL tomorrow. But for now, ima VOTE: Orange.
Somebody tag me if something really major happens or if you need me immediately... Other than that I'll deal with recent happenings in the morning. If orange is a mislynch, body corps for me. I really don't like his arguments/if orange is a ML he's scum.

So you haven't read the thread and put me at L-2. How considerate.

Well. At the moment I'd like the lynch to be Orange or Morose. There's been a few too many slips and outright refusals to help from Orange for me to feel comfortable keeping him as newb town. I can swallow the early game Polish name-claim thing as newness, but it doesn't feel like his responses to your "mislynch" questioning are truthful (I don't really care if he mistyped mislynch, but I do care that he seems to want to hide it).

I agree that the "mislynch" situation doesn't look too good, but refusal to help? How can you say that while I've re-read the thread and started to comment on new content while half the thread isn't caught up yet?

I also don't believe what you're interpreting from Morose should be considered town, I still see a player railing against the slot that he perceived as the worst and safest to push, not scummiest; but he's been quite hard to do anything with considering he's not here.

I agree with this sentiment.

I'd also sincerely appreciate Polish making a return and confirming or de-confirming the Twitchy claim.

I'd also sincerely appreciate Polish making a return and confirming my ID before I get lynched so that town has more to go off of tomorrow.

Quick note:
I AM AT L-1. IF THE THREAD'S GENERAL CONSENSUS IS TO KILL ME, PLEASE WAIT UNTIL CLOSER TO THE DEADLINE SO THAT POLISH CAN POSSIBLY COME BACK TO CONFIRM/DENY VITAL INFORMATION.