Masquerade Mafia / Mafia Wins!

[Polishnapkin]

I'm about to post, I need time to do it. I need an unvote so I have time to talk. I believe Morose is scum and we have set up a situation for him to quickhammer. That is far too risky for comfort. Let me talk.

 

[Aquariusboy]

I agree that the "mislynch" situation doesn't look too good, but refusal to help? How can you say that while I've re-read the thread and started to comment on new content while half the thread isn't caught up yet?

Well, considering we've been waiting for you to finish a re-read and make some posts with actual direction in them instead of just responding to people speaking to you I don't think that's unfair to say, but specifically I had this post in mind when I said "refusal to help":

I don't care what you think is suitable or not, my first answer is true.

Not a friendly reply by any means.

 

[Aquariusboy]

I'm about to post, I need time to do it. I need an unvote so I have time to talk. I believe Morose is scum and we have set up a situation for him to quickhammer. That is far too risky for comfort. Let me talk.

Unvote

 

[Polishnapkin]

First things first, I apologize for not being here. I had something come up. Unfortunately, I am going to be gone for 3 days in the next phase, one of the most crucial points of the game, and that is simply unforgivable to me. I intend to replace out shortly afterwards, but thankfully I have found my own successor should the moderator accept.

I'll ease up on the persona for a bit as well and try to speak as direct as possible as time is in short supply. I intend to cover my motivations for this game as well as the current situation and the wagon history for this phase as I believe both need addressing.

1] My motivations

Orange is MoosyDoosy, or at least that is my current belief. I guessed his identity by his third post simply because I do not recall another player using the term, "throwing shade". The entire reason I brought it up was to use a roundabout method of creating discussion to see who would want identities. The reason that I even considered that angle was that this is not my first anonymous game. In previous ones, there is usually some kind of role that looks for player identities and abuses them, most often a scum role. The problem is that Moosy ruined this angle with his lack of foresight and demanded that we out him immediately. From that point onward, I decried any discussion about identity simply due to avoiding giving information to roles that I could not outright deny existence.

As for the policy lynch, I have already outlined my point of view on it previously, but I will reiterate: the game was going nowhere on D1. The low levels of activity from every player stonewalled a lot of discussion and left me feeling as if I had no particularly good method of approach. With slots like pre-replacement Corps and RaniverousBeast still present, I feel it was correct. I am infinitely more comfortable walking into the prospective d3 we have on the table now than if we had lynched Maven or myself and left Raniverous on the table. That being said, I had hoped to avoid needing a policy lynch on D1. 8 pages is not that much, yet we only hit that benchmark over halfway through D2. I had hoped that with a little support that a looming policy lynch would have erased the question marks, but in the end, we simply had a sheer lack of activity even to pressure those slots.

As an aside, that is why my metric for policy lynching was post count rather than content. I had also had a slight hope that I could catch someone deliberately manipulating their post count should the game have been more active; I didn't, for obvious reasons. Two is not a hard number to beat.

Lastly, I am VT, just as the claimed Role Cop states.

 

[Polishnapkin]

OrangeXhtml Please do not confirm or deny your identity as I would not like to accidentally modkill you. It is probably best for you to read that paragraph and then forget that I said it.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Reading as I eat.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Polish can you respond to my thoughts on Morose, I have given thoughts on him and quoted your posts. I am mobile.

 

[Polishnapkin]

2] My reads and theories as of this moment.

Orange is not scum. I think this lynch is awful and I'm not particularly sure how it came to be. I have read Corps' case and I do not find his accusations well-founded. I do not think a low post count this phase is anything particularly damning and I don't think it erases the contributions Orange made in the previous phase. Furthermore, I do not trust this wagon. Assuming that both Maven and Orange stay with me, the only means of lynching Orange comes through Corps/Aquarius/Twitchy/Morose. I believe that two scum (probably the only scum in the game) remain in that group. We have one mislynch. Let me break it down:

Morosemist needs to go today. That is fact. I have outlined why and I have not found sufficient reason to doubt my read nor found a reasonable explanation from another slot. I would like to lynch him. I also know that Aquariusboy has expressed interest, Twitchy was pushing him at the start of the phase, and that Orange and Maven will likely vote him as well. The only slot I have seen defend Morosemist is Corps Phoenix and I find his defenses of the slot lacking; that said, it comes to no surprise that Corps Phoenix also suspects Maven--that may have something to do with it.

Can someone please point to me what Morosemist has done other than push Maven? His case is futile and does not outline scum intent and his lack of a read on any other slot is alarming. Tie that in with the majority of his remaining posts coming from the armchair without actually pushing a stance or discussion and he does not look like a townie. He is not scumhunting.

The Phoenix is the one who has started this asinine case on Orange and the one willing to defend Morosemist. Both of those moves look horrid to me, but I do not believe he is scum. He is the slot that has come to breath life to a dead game. He has displayed the knack for analysis and his treatment of Morosemist looks far more townie than scummy. I find it unlikely that scum would stick their neck out for the sake of the Moody Cloud. If Morosemist is scum, then he can no longer bus him and upon the flip, Corps would look horrendous, but if Morosemist is town, then you cut off a possible mislynch opportunity on a slot that would not be hard to push. Ergo, I believe he is more likely town simply by context and would like to lynch him least amongst these four.

Aquariusboy and Twitchy are next on my docket. Both these slots have stated willingness to lynch Morosemist but both have looked the other way as deadline approached and found themselves on other slots. Aquariusboy came to the conclusion of Orange being a viable lynch candidate despite holding Morosemist at arm's length for most of the game (as he was one of the first slots to prod Morose during D1 but never did much with it). Moreover, it is worth noting that Aquarius' vote is never something he uses proactively. He is always a tack-on vote, willing to give a +1 to a wagon. Glossing over his vote history is sufficient proof; yet despite having apparent suspicions for Morosemist, he has not voted that slot once. I would, however, like for someone to fact check me and tell my replacement or I if I am wrong.

On the subject of Twitchy, let me set one thing straight: that claim does not do him any favors save for justifying his 180 on us at the start of the phase. Role cop is a common scum investigative role and his backpedal on us claiming that it does not clear us after the fact is a bit concerning. That said, I have a hard time understanding his position as both a townie and a scummer. I do not understand why he, as mafia, deigns it necessary to clear me when he could have easily stayed on me. That said, I do not understand how his vote came onto Orange or even his general opportunism in his voting pattern. I do think he is showing some propensity for reading the game and at least appearing like he's scumhunting rather than sitting on a target just because, but at the same time, I did find that Corps' point about him having no hard reads outside of myself prior to today to be fairly accurate and it makes me question if he was truly scumhunting. There are instances of him doing the right thing but at the same time he's done enough to create reasonable doubt in what he's done. It leaves me mired on how I truly feel and I would lynch him third at the moment simply due to townreading everyone else.

On a final note, I believe a massclaim tomorrow is the right move. It may have been right to do it today but it is far too late to say that. A massclaim would alone give us a stronger idea of the legitimacy of Twitchy's claim and shrinks any hiding spots for scum while allowing a nightphase to confirm or deny them.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Also thoughts on my cases, and thoughts on me. Just overall reads.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Nvm, Ninja.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Hmm on twitchy. I agree his plat makes mr scratch my head. Even after claiming.

 

[Polishnapkin]

Regardless, I intend to replace out as of now. That said, I will remain around for the phase until my replacement is enforced and my successor enters the game as this is a fairly critical point of the game.

OrangeXhtml
Aquariusboy
@Maven89 BarmanUK
Morosemist
Corps phoenix
@Twitchybanana

Now is not the time for silence. We need more posts and I would very much enjoy to hear your responses to my thoughts, regardless of what they say about you.

 

[Polishnapkin]

While I believe my vote is there already, let me reiterate:

vote Morosemist

I believe he is scum.

Corps phoenix should you have the chance, I would like for you to quote your defense of the Mist. I do remember not agreeing with your conclusion but I cannot find the tag/quote in my notification feed.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Morosemist:

Had a good observation of the early phase. (Stating there was meaningless discussion and wondering why Orange was so confident that he would not be outted by the mechanic)
Had a good argument against Maven.

That's all. I find his case was originally a case of Maven playing bad. Yet now, alongside Maven being past prod range, and posting frequently in his other game, shows that he may not care to find scum at all, and it would make sense with the intent to open the game to seem town. All this while I and Twitchy are duking it out. If Barman were present I'd have a harder time deciding. I have also been liking Aqua's observations as of late.

With Polish and Twitch possibly being cleared, Barman and Orange would be the best outlets to look into. Just look at who is present.

Finally, Orange has been wishy washy all game, and has also been stalling. Like I stated before, he has viewed multiple times without actually posting. I and others have asked him questions and he has still yet to answer.

 

[Corps phoenix]

I mean. Maven has only posted once this phase. That is a problem!

I am willing to talk though

 

[Corps phoenix]

It was un-prompted, if he was townie. This is different because it seems like he's doing so to distract from the 'meaningless discussion' happening on page 2. Also because of my theory I have explained in the Barman spoiler.



I want to address this post for Twitchy. His point wasn't that the vague vt claim didn't actually create discussion. The point was regardless of the positive of his action, his intent was to post that claim to appear pro-town while creating discussion as a side-effect. (Yet I have a different idea of why he did it, please read the Barman spoiler to find out what it is)



I think you are very wrong. Even I can be wrong (and just was), and I do not fault you or Twitchy for it. I think Orange's 'townieness' has sunk as his post count did. He hasn't been as present as he was earlier game. He also has no direction today, and when he did post, he was posting a re-read, and never quick comments on current events. I implore you to re-consider, look at my case on him.

Underlined, I think it may be likely in this extreme case. I have evidence to support it as well. Now, it's understandable for one to claim a role if it didn't matter. Yet in this game it still does matter. His 'wifom' thing doesn't apply. I don't understand why people buy that, and he'll need to clarify that. Yet, in that situation, he could have done any number of things, and not have claimed. It was more of a desperate move. Also, it makes sense along with his whole play. He hasn't been around D2 at all, even past being prodded.

 

[Corps phoenix]

We should talk compromises. Also your reasoning for maven town that I underlined, I do not find valid. Please discuss this. I will be home on around an hour or 2.

 

[Polishnapkin]

I will have computer access in roughly 3 hours. Until then, I am relegated to mobile.

I am interested in what compromises you are talking about. I am unlikely to reconsider on Orange or Barman without a flip today or some earth shaking event.

I will respond more in-depth later.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Can someone please point to me what Morosemist has done other than push Maven? His case is futile and does not outline scum intent and his lack of a read on any other slot is alarming. Tie that in with the majority of his remaining posts coming from the armchair without actually pushing a stance or discussion and he does not look like a townie. He is not scumhunting.

I'll start with this. The only thing I can agree with is him not being here as much as I'd like, and seeing more reads from him would be nice. Yet, I don't see it as any different than Maven. Yet, the whole damn town is inactive, hurting itself. I want you to elaborate on Maven's whole play. Forget about the claim. Consider it null. What do you have then? (Although I have already talked about why him being 'likely town' doesn't seem valid to me, I explained it already)

On twitch, I can agree. The worst thing he has done, even past claiming cop, is giving me the authority of the Orange lynch, yet taking no responsibility for it. "Hey, I'll trust you but if you're wrong it's on you not me!!" Most un-pro-town action ever. I've been taught to always re-evaluate your reads but that is the total opposite. Literally the most fishy thing I've seen him say. Plus, after claiming, he's become even more stubborn, and less present in thread. ... He isn't listening, and continues the same old story and just leaves. "Sorry, I'm mobile" ............

 

[OrangeXhtml]

kk, I'm back and reading what has happened..

 

[Corps phoenix]

Orange, who is scum to you right now. You might just die today. So full reads now.

 

[Corps phoenix]

I should amend the Twitch statement. It's an appeal to authority. He is absolving himself of the responsibility of it Orange isn't mafia. He goes as far as to say that he hadn't read anything, and calling my case really really bad, yet still votes on it. Polish, any idea on who this can be?

 

[OrangeXhtml]

First things first, I apologize for not being here. I had something come up. Unfortunately, I am going to be gone for 3 days in the next phase, one of the most crucial points of the game, and that is simply unforgivable to me. I intend to replace out shortly afterwards, but thankfully I have found my own successor should the moderator accept

Nobody else has he fact that Polish is willing to replace out due to not being here for part of D3 is a towny play in my book.

I think that Barman played very townie D1, considered all viewpoints and had unique perspectives. Some of his D1 play made sense as scum, but you'd have to put it in a negative light to actually get anywhere, as there isn't much solid evidence against him. His absence D2, however, is very worrisome. It's one day before the phase ends and he's contributed pretty much nothing for today. Seeing as he's actually been active in his other game, that means he hasn't been too busy to play mafia and that gives a possibility of him coasting scum. While he has posted in-thread about giving input from BarMaven on the state of things, he's yet to actually come and do it. I'd be a little uncomfortable with you or Twitchy dying today (unless either of you do anything significantly scummy) as it would leave town with very little direction, you've both been very open on your opinions on the thread, and I've found your contrasting PoVs very useful in making my own opinions on the state of the thread. I think that Polish is still town-ish, Moro's tunneling for two days in a row and then absence since yesterday is worrisome, and Aqua has been getting too much credit for too little content.

I still stand by these reads and think Mist is the most likely candidate for the lynch today; Barman and Maven would be next on my lynch lyst after that.

If you want me to delve further into specific slots, just ask.

 

[Corps phoenix]

I don't see anything suspect about Aquarius. I find it iffy that Twitch keeps nagging at him for lurking when he's been here more than Maven has. Anyway, I do recall him being a one up man usuallly. Always in catch up mode. I found some of opinions likable, he thought of something I didn't and that's what prompted me to re-read.

I feel you are dangerously molding most of your reads around Morose, who has yet to flip. I'm still not convinced by your reasoning on him. If Maven were here and present, I wouldn't be saying this. Yet, he's not here.

OrangeXhtml :

BarmanUK IS Maven. Also give reasons. I want a FULL reads list. Everyone.

 

[OrangeXhtml]

I don't see anything suspect about Aquarius. I find it iffy that Twitch keeps nagging at him for lurking when he's been here more than Maven has. Anyway, I do recall him being a one up man usuallly. Always in catch up mode. I found some of opinions likable, he thought of something I didn't and that's what prompted me to re-read.

I feel you are dangerously molding most of your reads around Morose, who has yet to flip. I'm still not convinced by your reasoning on him. If Maven were here and present, I wouldn't be saying this. Yet, he's not here.

OrangeXhtml :

BarmanUK IS Maven. Also give reasons. I want a FULL reads list. Everyone.

lol oops, second person was supposed to be Aqua. Anyways, here's my read list:

Orange: Confirmed town (obviously)

Phoenix: Phoenix has pretty revived the thread and saved the game. I find some of his arguments highly suspect, think that he is misguided in some of his reads, but he's been SUPER active this phase, and has done a whole bunch of scumhunting. If Phoenix was scum, I think that he would have been content in the range of commenting on current events enough to stay relevant, but not commenting enough to actually help the thread significantly. He could be a really good indie trying to take complete thread control, but if he wanted thread control, he could've probably stopped at 50 posts today (whereas he has been above 50 for over a day now). Town lean.

TwitchyBanana: I've agreed with a lot of what he has to say, but I still don't see the turnaround on Polish without reasoning as town. If he gave good reasoning why he completely changed his mind I would have gone on with my day and had Twitchy as the second strongest slot, but a combination of his lack of good reasoning for changing his opinion and D2 roleclaim because he was under weak pressure from questions that can't hold water from Phoenix makes me second-guess myself. Still, I think that if he were scum, he wouldn't be trying to actively show other PoVs that weren't considered by the thread before, he wouldn't be trying to defend slots that aren't his own, and he surely wouldn't have put his opinions so far into the open. I don't want to see Twitchy die today unless someone can give me a REALLY good reason. Town lean.

Aqua: He hasn't done anything particularly scummy, but the fact he's gotten away with going all game without actually initiating or contributing significantly to a push worries me. He always seems to be fairly active in the end of phases, but sorta disappears for the start and middle of the phase. His votes have always been safe, he's only stuck out his neck against thread sentiment once to my recollection (and that was a post saying that he'd be willing to stick out his neck against thread sentiment), and he's played an incredibly safe, withdrawn game. He's gotten away with no pressure because he hasn't posted anything huge to be pressured on, and he hasn't actively scumhunted. He has smelled townie based on his comments here and there, but he hasn't exposed himself enough to put a really solid read on him. This slot isn't my first priority today, but he deserves a good look tomorrow (hopefully he will come out of his shell eventually). Null/scum, possible compromise lynch.

Polish: He initiated conversation Page 2 (and he gave his motives for it, which have been sorely missing the past two weeks), he could have completely screwed over Twitchy by denying the claim if he were scum, aside from recent inactivity from real life he has been active and open to conversation, and did a majority of the scumhunting D1. There has been debate on how he started the thread, but the point is that he kickstarted a dead birthed game of Mafia and if he didn't start us all talking, He has been insightful and I've tended to agree with most of what he had to say, and I'll be sad to see this player replace out (even if it's for the good of the town). Town read.

BarMaven: I think that Barman played very townie D1, considered all viewpoints and had unique perspectives. Some of his D1 play made sense as scum, but you'd have to put it in a negative light to actually get anywhere, as there isn't much solid evidence against him. His absence D2, however, is very worrisome. It's one day before the phase ends and he's contributed pretty much nothing for today. Seeing as he's actually been active in his other game, that means he hasn't been too busy to play mafia and that gives a possibility of him coasting scum. While he has posted in-thread about giving input from BarMaven on the state of things, he's yet to actually come and do it. (Copied from the other readlist because I think it's still relevant, seeing as Barman hasn't come back to the living world yet). Null, possible compromise lynch.

Mist: This slot has done nothing this game other than tunnel Barman on one point at the start of the game. He hasn't considered other lynches, he hasn't even tried to looke at any PoVs that don't align in his, he hasn't considered that he may be wrong, he is intent on killing Barman. His entire case is built upon the fact that if Barman wanted to generate more conversation, he wouldn't have stated it was a WIFOM (which Barman actually addressed with something to the effect of "I don't see how someone could not figure out that claim was a WIFOM"). In addition, if Barman truly wanted to shut down conversation, he would have simply not posted and it wouldn't have posed a problem. His last post seemed to imply he was fine looking at Banana, but that was last Friday and he hasn't come back since. To me, he reads as a scum who got caught on the wrong side of a fence and was too prideful to say that he was wrong. I want him to die today.

Vote: Mist

Is that better?

 

[Polishnapkin]

I can look back into Barman to give you a more detailed view, but in overview, I DO think the claim was likely town and prior to it, I thought he was one of the best looking slots in a rather lackluster game.

It seems that we have absolutely opposite opinions on the Maven and Mist slots. Either I will reread the game or my replacement will. I know that my successor has read the game and intends to read it again. Hopefully you will get both.

 

[OrangeXhtml]

I saw Phoenix come and go, and I haven't seen him comment on my read list. We only have 6 hours until the deadline and need to come up with a lynch. I think that Mist and I are probably going to be the lynchpool today (unless someone insists on Barman) since we're both at L-2, so people need to make their decisions and thought processes known in the near future.

 

[Morosemist]

Haven't read, haven't done anything, etc. Busy weekend, and I won't be here until midnight eastern time. Do what you all will, assuming deadline is today? Haven't checked.

 

[Corps phoenix]

I'm here, Orange.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Hello Barman. Full reads list.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Well, let's see. Twitchy has left his vote on Orange from the very beginning, and hasn't been here at all to help. It's a negative for him. Why would the town cop be so unhelpful?

Also, Orange, what makes you think you are confirmed town?

 

[Corps phoenix]

My thoughts on your reads Orange, are that they don't seem very original. Nothing new. If you genuinely had trouble coming up with stuff, just say so now.

 

[OrangeXhtml]

Also, Orange, what makes you think you are confirmed town?

I'm mod-confirmed townie in my role PM, and it's my read list, thus I am mod-confirmed from my perspective.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Ah, I see. Understood.

So you are willing to switch to Barman?

 

[BarmanUK]

Been reading through the game

MOrosemist is a broken record and it's feeling more and more like he's using his Barmaven read to justify not talking about anything else. he's refused to budge on it and has just repeated the same things that he was repeating day 1, things that have already been crushed.

Reading through the rest before I come to the vote, I'm not thinking it's going to be hard

 

[Corps phoenix]

I'm thinking good moves to compromise to if you aren't lynched is Twitch/Barman. Thoughts on this?

 

[Corps phoenix]

Hey Barman. Can you explain how there is wifom in this game? That is confusing to me. I agree that lack of reads on Morose's part is problem though.

 

[OrangeXhtml]

My thoughts on your reads Orange, are that they don't seem very original. Nothing new. If you genuinely had trouble coming up with stuff, just say so now.

You asked for my opinions on the state of affairs and I gave them, slot-by-slot. There wasn't a whole lot of original content there because my read lists are usually a summation of my opinions on a slot over the course of a game, so naturally a lot of the stuff would have been pointed out. Also, has your opinion on Aqua changed at all after reading my explanation of him? You said you were having trouble seeing anything suspicious about him earlier.

So you are willing to switch to Barman?

I'm willing to lynch Barman as a compromise so we don't NL, but I REALLY think that Mist is the better choice for today.

 

[Corps phoenix]

That's fine was just telling you what I thought. On Aqua, I don't find it suspicious. I do have a question for you. Do you think mafia were both on the wagon, both off, or only one on and one off of RAN?

 

[Corps phoenix]

Also Barman: Explain why you haven't been here since the beginning of D2, while also posting in your other game (as Maven). Thank you.