Marth Q&A Thread (To replace new thread spam)

[QuantumKiller]

I hear that they can smash DI the first jab so the second jab counters that. I think downtilt is a great option since it forces them to recover from a lower point which is like a free kill. If downtilt can't hit because they are slightly above the hitbox then go for a neutral B.

 

[DireDrop]

So, double jab to edgeguard the Side-B, then use d-tilt or neutral-B to edgeguard the inevitable Up-B? Or are you talking about using d-tilt and neutral-B to edgeguard the side-B?

 

[QuantumKiller]

Yes the double jab into downtilt or neutral-B. If they they're trying to sweetspot the ledge just go ahead and use downtilt.

 

[Swampertrulz]

What's a good strategy for going against a more experienced player as Marth?

 

[PlamZ]

What's a good strategy for going against a more experienced player as Marth?

Always go with the intention of learning. If you get punished, learn why. If you play to win, you'll be disappointed and lose the focus.

 

[orvs]

yo

if marth lands a fair on fox/falco at low percents (0-20%) does it confirm into a grab? or is it possible for fox/falco to buffer a roll/spotdodge before the grab?

sorry if this has been asked before

 

[FE_Hector]

yo

if marth lands a fair on fox/falco at low percents (0-20%) does it confirm into a grab? or is it possible for fox/falco to buffer a roll/spotdodge before the grab?

sorry if this has been asked before

I'm not sure as I haven't done too much testing, but even if Marth L-Cancel's the aerial, I don't think that you're guaranteed a grab against the spacies. Marth's fair's are good, but I don't think that their knockback is anywhere near enough to confirm a grab. I'm 98% sure it doesn't against Sheik, in any case.

 

[Swampertrulz]

Always go with the intention of learning. If you get punished, learn why. If you play to win, you'll be disappointed and lose the focus.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[-n00dle-]

at what percent can marth regrab falco on full DI behind? i know it doesn't work at 0, and i've heard 7 or 8, but i've been able to get it at 5 a few times

 

[Swampertrulz]

Is Marth mid tier?

 

[Bormp]

Somebody help me with the Falco MU! I can't get around his lasers for one. Also anytime I try to shield grab, I get shined. I assume I should just shield less in general, and when he hits my shield I should just shield grab later or not at all. Anyways, I need help with the MU in general, any information would help.

 

[FE_Hector]

Somebody help me with the Falco MU! I can't get around his lasers for one. Also anytime I try to shield grab, I get shined. I assume I should just shield less in general, and when he hits my shield I should just shield grab later or not at all. Anyways, I need help with the MU in general, any information would help.

For the lasers, you can SH over most placements and crouch under the others. If he's using them to approach, I'd just light shield them.

If he's shining your attempted grabs, you're too close. Keep in mind Marth's insane grab range. Grabbing OoS is the same in terms of range, it just requires really good timing.

Past that, play him carefully. Go for safe options, poke a lot, and DD in and out of his range often to force him to whiff a move or yield the stage.

Stay on your toes and play well.

 

[Bormp]

For the lasers, you can SH over most placements and crouch under the others. If he's using them to approach, I'd just light shield them.

If he's shining your attempted grabs, you're too close. Keep in mind Marth's insane grab range. Grabbing OoS is the same in terms of range, it just requires really good timing.

Past that, play him carefully. Go for safe options, poke a lot, and DD in and out of his range often to force him to whiff a move or yield the stage.

Stay on your toes and play well.

Thank you! I'll work on it.

 

[FE_Hector]

Thank you! I'll work on it.

No problem. Those are some more general tips for the MU. Hopefully somebody else has more tips for the MU then just that, but I'm fairly sure everything I said will help.

 

[DeadPigeon]

Somebody help me with the Falco MU! I can't get around his lasers for one. Also anytime I try to shield grab, I get shined. I assume I should just shield less in general, and when he hits my shield I should just shield grab later or not at all. Anyways, I need help with the MU in general, any information would help.

Mango will sometimes shield smash di to get the perfect spacing to out range the shine, but that's a little unrealistic for us mortals. Instead, if the spacie spaces so that their shine will hit if you shield grab, just wait out the shine, then grab. If they start double shining, wait that out. In general, spacies like to shine when they land, so if you are aware of that tendency, you can out space and punish.

 

[DeadPigeon]

Is Marth mid tier?

No, he is top tier

 

[Bormp]

Mango will sometimes shield smash di to get the perfect spacing to out range the shine, but that's a little unrealistic for us mortals. Instead, if the spacie spaces so that their shine will hit if you shield grab, just wait out the shine, then grab. If they start double shining, wait that out. In general, spacies like to shine when they land, so if you are aware of that tenancy, you can out space and punish.

Thanks!

 

[CrippleCow]

Marth ditto question:

What's the best way to get up from the ledge when my opponent is back far enough to where he can dtilt/fsmash me?

The only thing I've been able to do is alternate between roll and tournament winner, everything else I try seems to get punished more than either of those.

Edit: to be clear, I'm asking about when I'm already holding onto the ledge, I don't have any issues recovering, just getting back on stage from the ledge.

 

[QuantumKiller]

Okay this is going to be a really obscure question but does anyone that can do TAS inputs on dolphin know if this movement can go across FD in one go?

Ledge ->
Waveland ->
Moonwalk ->
SH Forward Air ->
Waveland ->
Grab other ledge

 

[QuantumKiller]

Another question
What would be the best thing to do if I were to land a non-tipper jab on stage?

 

[Smashing Turnips]

Is Marth mid tier?

Nope! Some argue that he is the second best character in the game!

Marth ditto question:

What's the best way to get up from the ledge when my opponent is back far enough to where he can dtilt/fsmash me?

Remember that Marth has a ledge stall that is pretty hard to punish. Mixing up wavedash on stage, and standard get up. The latter can help you turn a bad situation around with a grab and a down-throw.

On stages like Yoshi's, I believe that you can actually waveland on the platform since it's low enough.

Lastly, if they're too close to the ledge, you can actually stall with F-airs, by jump back from the ledge. This helps keep your opponent at a distance that is comfortable for you.

 

[Smashing Turnips]

at what percent can marth regrab falco on full DI behind? i know it doesn't work at 0, and i've heard 7 or 8, but i've been able to get it at 5 a few times

Honestly, I believe it work at 4%. Usually you can throw Falco forward and regrab him. Although, if he buffers a roll out of it, it will not possible.

 

[Swampertrulz]

Nope! Some argue that he is the second best character in the game!
Oh yeah now I remember!

 

[orvs]

I'm not sure as I haven't done too much testing, but even if Marth L-Cancel's the aerial, I don't think that you're guaranteed a grab against the spacies. Marth's fair's are good, but I don't think that their knockback is anywhere near enough to confirm a grab. I'm 98% sure it doesn't against Sheik, in any case.

thanks.
i was wondering since a common scenario that I see in the matchup is Marth doing a fair to intercept an aerial approach, and then sometimes marth gets the grab afterwards

 

[Smashing Turnips]

thanks.
i was wondering since a common scenario that I see in the matchup is Marth doing a fair to intercept an aerial approach, and then sometimes marth gets the grab afterwards

It's good for catching them off guard. If they're not expecting to be hit, they won't input buffered roll or try to run away. However, I don't believe it works at zero percent, and at higher percents it will pop them up high. It's possible to just opt for f-smash in that situation.

 

[FE_Hector]

It's good for catching them off guard. If they're not expecting to be hit, they won't input buffered roll or try to run away. However, I don't believe it works at zero percent, and at higher percents it will pop them up high. It's possible to just opt for f-smash in that situation.

That's probably if they enter tumble and just tech in place. Also, if he's fighting somebody with a relatively small DD (like the spacies), he might land and DD into a JC/pivot grab. It's not confirmed, but I'd put it at likely in that case.

 

[TheKobanator]

Is there any other character, besides Puff, that we can get a dsmash off of a throw?

 

[FE_Hector]

Is there any other character, besides Puff, that we can get a dsmash off of a throw?

I don't know, but honestly, I don't think that any of Marth's smash attacks are good at all. They're way too much of a commitment for him.... except for the occasional fsmash that you're absolutely sure will hit

 

[DeadPigeon]

I don't know, but honestly, I don't think that any of Marth's smash attacks are good at all. They're way too much of a commitment for him.... except for the occasional fsmash that you're absolutely sure will hit

What @ TheKobanator is talking about is a guaranteed dsmash tipper on puff on certain di. It's a mixup. It is very good because it kills puff and marth sometimes has trouble killing puff early. It's not an over commitment because you're not throwing it out in neutral, so the puff likely won't be able to punish. The worst you get is a reset to neutral, the best you get is a kill.

 

[lolsgod]

So I've been watching M2K sets lately and the big thing I see him do is if he has the ledge and his opponent is off-stage he drops down to catch them (usually against fox/falco when they up b) I basically just making sure I have the right chain of motions.

-Drops (opposite of the stage direction not down)
-Jump
-Bair
-Up B

I'm no 100% sure that's it, please help me out.

 

[FE_Hector]

So I've been watching M2K sets lately and the big thing I see him do is if he has the ledge and his opponent is off-stage he drops down to catch them (usually against fox/falco when they up b) I basically just making sure I have the right chain of motions.

-Drops (opposite of the stage direction not down)
-Jump
-Bair
-Up B

I'm no 100% sure that's it, please help me out.

I'm not entirely sure. Could you post a video of it? Also, M2K sometimes goes for stylish KOs when there's a pretty easy edgeguard he could exploit. Make sure that you don't have an easier option first, and make sure you hit. Missing gimps like that is an excellent way to SD

 

[CrippleCow]

Vs Captain Falcon question: Is using nair to intercept Falcon's aerial approaches as good as I think it is?

I don't fight many Falcons, but in a recent match against a Falcon that constantly approached using aerials, nair beat his aerials every time. Is there a better option than nair?

 

[QuantumKiller]

-Drops (opposite of the stage direction not down)
-Jump
-Bair
-Up B

I'm no 100% sure that's it, please help me out.

Yeah that's how he does it, sometimes he fastfalls down instead of the opposite direction if they started their up-b earlier because he has less time.

 

[FE_Hector]

Vs Captain Falcon question: Is using nair to intercept Falcon's aerial approaches as good as I think it is?

I don't fight many Falcons, but in a recent match against a Falcon that constantly approached using aerials, nair beat his aerials every time. Is there a better option than nair?

A properly spaced uair or fair is way better and follows up more easily

 

[Ladder]

Is there an alternative to the ken combo?
I play the PAL version and my opponent can just meteor cancel marth's dair

 

[FE_Hector]

Is there an alternative to the ken combo?
I play the PAL version and my opponent can just meteor cancel marth's dair

I'm pretty sure the "Euro Ken Combo" is similar to the normal one, but ends in a well placed Dolphin Slash. I don't know the PAL version though so I'd suggest looking it up.

 

[QuantumKiller]

Is there an alternative to the ken combo?
I play the PAL version

neutral-b, up-b, another fair, or possibly side-b in the opposite way into a tippered bair(probably at higher percents when opponent is in more hitlag or if you're fast lol). You probably have to rely more on edge-guarding normally if you're opponent is good at meteor-cancelling. If you can land the dair on stage and l-cancel you should be able to dair them again if you're quick enough and then set-up for an edgegaurd(or you can keep dairing them until they mess up lol). I play NTSC so I can't say this is the correct way to approach this.

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

Given Marf is one of my big counters, I ask
1. What is the ideal way to play against Marf? So far I have noticed that waiting for an opening to get in a fast combo starting move and squeezing every percent I can out of that string of attacks is pretty much the only viable way to play against Marth "The-Active-Hitbox" Degrossi. Anything else I can do?
2. Should I consider a counter pick character that holds up better to Mark? My friend (who knows a **** ton about top tiers) said Marm has no bad match-ups, and I beleive that. But what character is the most even? Would picking up Marth to counter the other Marfs out there be a viable option? I was always interested in learning him.

I thought that because this was a Marf QA I could ask match-ups against him. Idunno. If thats not the case then Ill pack my stuff and go back to scrubby A tier Doc discussion.

Doc is S tier, and don't let nobody tell you any different baby.

 

[CrippleCow]

2. Should I consider a counter pick character that holds up better to Mark? My friend (who knows a **** ton about top tiers) said Marm has no bad match-ups, and I beleive that. But what character is the most even? Would picking up Marth to counter the other Marfs out there be a viable option? I was always interested in learning him.

At a low-mid level of play Shiek is considered a bad matchup for sword-dude. Shiek does well vs Marth at all levels, but at the highest level it's close to 50-50.

Young Link and Link both do well against him, and personally I think Luigi is at least even, maybe even beating Marth in the matchup.

Lot's of people say Jigglypuff wins narrowly, and Captain Falcon is also a pain for Marth.

As for the ditto, I've learned that most Marth mains are really bad at the Marth vs. Marth matchup, so learning the ditto is definitely an option.

 

[FE_Hector]

2. Should I consider a counter pick character that holds up better to Mark? My friend (who knows a **** ton about top tiers) said Marm has no bad match-ups, and I beleive that. But what character is the most even? Would picking up Marth to counter the other Marfs out there be a viable option? I was always interested in learning him.

In the Good Secondaries thread, we cover a lot of the points re: Marth that should be good for you. It's not that long of a forum atm, either.

http://smashboards.com/threads/good-secondaries.407221/