Marth Guide?

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Well the guide is being made; I'm not backing out now.

This guide isn't just for scrubs =P I don't have ~4 years behind me like Mew2King, but I'm catching up :D I want to let this guide contain all the really useful information I've learned, and I'll just keep adding more to it with time.

There is just so much to say, I keep remembering stuff I've missed!

By the way, I learned a lot of technical stuff from guides.

I disagree with you, MookieRah; if people can learn from posts on a marth board, then they can learn from a guide.

 

[Ijuka]

And when you face a smart player who plays just the opposite of how the character would normally play... You lose =) Guides are ok, if they are actually helpful. But most guides just tell you the obvious stuff that you can figure out yourself in like 15 minutes. And don't concentrate on just offence, but defence as well.

 

[knightpraetor]

mookierah, i agree that trying to absorb it all at once is really hard..but usually when i try to learn something new i just note that one fact for a day or so while i'm playing and focus just on improving one aspect..so i think plenty of players will just look at one or two things in the guide and then go play some matches

 

[4BDN_Skillz]

Yes i agree with knight. If you u just try to learn that one thing that is really messing u up. All u really need to do is practice for about 10-15 minutes and ur game can improve greatly.

 

[knightpraetor]

that said i should mention that i sorta forgot that upthrow existed with marth for the day or so in which i practiced techchasing and stuff with dthrow fthrow but eventually you reintegrate everything and your game overall improves

 

[jiaflu]

How's it coming along?

 

[Shinku]

UMBC once told me, "if they take out marth in brawl, im going back to melee". so yeah, he loves his marth. another thing. what cactuar said in the first page, i agree complety.

The Pro, The Peer, The scrub

yeah those are pretty important but, not everyone can get the first one. hell, wed all be good if we had a m2k around us. or a ken or azen etc. but i guess he means someone far surperior which is true. however, i think a rival is what also makes us stronger.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

The guide is currently at 10 pages, jiaflu.

Right now, I have neither the pro, the peer, or the scrub until I go back to college. I feel like Mew2King. I've spent several hours every day experimenting against the cpu and practicing stuff. I really should beat Metroid Prime and Tales of Symphonia this summer, but I only want to play Smash.

 

[Randizzle]

I started playing metroid prime recently. I still have pro and peer every weekend or so. Got owned by dope and mikey lenetia last week... played some "peers" at some smashfests this weekend. I'm sort of lacking scrubs at the moment.

10 pages... sounds pretty huge. how big of a post does that translate to on the boards?

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Ten pages single-spaced as if you were handing it in to your English professor. It's not that long.

I still have about 2/3 of the stages and a third of the characters match-ups to do, and I haven't begun the Tricks and Super Advanced Techniques or Mindgames sections yet. There is tons to do for a guide. I plan to make a lot of progress on it later today, since I have nothing else to do. =)

 

[Brightside6382]

Ten pages single-spaced as if you were handing it in to your English professor. It's not that long.

I still have about 2/3 of the stages and a third of the characters match-ups to do, and I haven't begun the Tricks and Super Advanced Techniques or Mindgames sections yet. There is tons to do for a guide. I plan to make a lot of progress on it later today, since I have nothing else to do. =)

How can you write a section about mindgames??? Seems pretty pointless IMO because you can't teach a person how to think and react in the middle of a match. That part comes with experience.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

How can you write a section about mindgames??? Seems pretty pointless IMO because you can't teach a person how to think and react in the middle of a match. That part comes with experience.

You're right, however I can teach people how to identify certain mindgames and things they can do as mindgames.

 

[DOPL]

I would discuss some Marth strategies on a conceptual basis. Not like the sort of "if --> then" style you see a lot of, but just general goals. I see lots of technically proficient Marths that are stupid as hell, and are generally pretty single-minded. Maybe that's something only experience can teach, but putting it out there can't hurt. Or maybe it will just be aggravating. Good luck.

 

[REDRAGON]

Hey UMBC! Can you check out my sig then click the link and check out my Samus stage selection. When you get there can you please tell me if all the stages are right for Marth??
Like make sure that i got it correct that he has the advantage on BF, and tell me please!
Thanks!


Redragon

 

[Brightside6382]

You're right, however I can teach people how to identify certain mindgames and things they can do as mindgames.

How can you tell someone how to identify a mindgame? Mindgame itself has no tangible definition, how are you supposed to identify something that can't even be identified in the first place???

I'm not trying to put down your guide or anything I just think a whole section devoted to mindgames would be completely useless.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Hey UMBC! Can you check out my sig then click the link and check out my Samus stage selection. When you get there can you please tell me if all the stages are right for Marth??
Like make sure that i got it correct that he has the advantage on BF, and tell me please!
Thanks!


Redragon

Yes, your list is pretty accurate except marth's recovery is just fine on Battlefield. You're thinking he might miss the ledge? That's not a problem for marth as much as it is a problem for other characters like peach. Just don't hold toward the stage on Battlefield, DL64 and even FoD. You're supposed to sweet spot horizontally as well as vertically with marth, so keep in mind that if you continue holding in toward the stage that you aren't sweet spotting in one way that you could.

In general, I wouldn't say samus has the advantage against marth on any of the neutral stages. Samus does better where the ceiling is high (utilt kills take longer) and the horizontal distance is large (fsmash takes longer to kill, especially without tippers). Still, Marth > Samus no matter what stage. It's clear to me cause I'm not an amazing marth and yet I have beaten good samus players like Jasona and even Oro.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

How can you tell someone how to identify a mindgame? Mindgame itself has no tangible definition, how are you supposed to identify something that can't even be identified in the first place???

I'm not trying to put down your guide or anything I just think a whole section devoted to mindgames would be completely useless.

Ok, here's an example of a mindgame:

marth vs peach:

peach dashes toward a standing marth from within fsmash distance. What should marth do? Her dash attack has incredible priority (can't perform any attacks) and she could also grab. Ideally, marth should shield if she dash attacks and dash out then back in to grab if she tries to grab. How will marth know which to do? If the opponent is good then he/she will mix them up, and here is where your opponent tries to get in your head and you try to get in your opponent's head to predict him. This is a mindgame.

Edit: oops, I didn't even think that I was double posting. This is what happens when someone replies to something while I am making a post.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You can't teach mindgames. That can only be gained through experience.

Edit: Feel free to link to my threads in your guide, if you want to. You can also quote whatever I have said if you think it is helpful or ask me anything you want.

 

[JesiahTEG]

UMBC, I've been thinking a lot about peach lately, coming up with new strategies to deal with her, and I think I may have some useful stuff for you, and it will definitely help Marth players. Do you mind if I give you some info to consider putting in the guide, or are you just doing it by yourself right now? I really think you'd like the info.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Of course I'll take any advice, Jesiah. I'm not that knowledgeable, but someone needs to make a marth guide and continue updating it with new info, so I've stepped up to the task. It's sad that marth, one of the most popular characters in Smash, has no good guide after like 6 years. You can either post the stuff up in this thread or PM it to me. I'll even add in Emblem Lord's stuff if he wants, and of course I'll credit anyone who helps.

I think I'll change one of the section titles from 'Mindgames' to 'Tactics and Strategies'.

 

[JesiahTEG]

I'll PM it to you then.

 

[Shinku]

hey Daniel-son, your ghey. also, you owe me a mm. my falco to your marth. mlg rules, best of 7 or 11 or whatever. yeeshhh

 

[ChaosKnight]

lol making a guide seems kinda bleh but eh you can at least help the scrubby marths with there matchups most of the guide should be in depth character matchups since you really dont need to define how long a downsmash stays out or stuff liek that ...

 

[tyjets212]

IMO. Video guides are much easier to comprehend and to acutally use to improve your playing ability. i.e. Wak/ Kaze no Kizzu

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

hey Daniel-son, your ghey. also, you owe me a mm. my falco to your marth. mlg rules, best of 7 or 11 or whatever. yeeshhh

Yeah, we'll get it done eventually, I promise. However, the longer I wait the more I **** you so... I'm not hurrying it

lol making a guide seems kinda bleh but eh you can at least help the scrubby marths with there matchups most of the guide should be in depth character matchups since you really dont need to define how long a downsmash stays out or stuff liek that ...

A large part of the guide is character match-ups. Honestly, I'd get bored explaining how long a downsmash lasts

IMO. Video guides are much easier to comprehend and to acutally use to improve your playing ability. i.e. Wak/ Kaze no Kizzu

Perhaps, but I'm not good at video editing, and I won't receive my video recording equipment until June 10. Besides, I'm not here to spoon feed you guys; my goal is to spread useful information to marth players who otherwise might never hear it.

I just need to get to Pound2 so I can learn even more stuff to put in the guide, and refresh my memory of the stuff I already know. I haven't played someone half way decent since May 19. CPUs get boring after a while

By the way, I lost my highspeed internet, so I won't be posting on here very frequently anymore since dial-up is so slow it's almost not worth using. Also, I start full-time work on Monday. I also have to learn wedding music on piano for my sister's wedding at the end of the summer. Still, expect a rough draft of the guide sometime this month and continued updates throughout the summer.

 

[jiaflu]

How was Pound? Hope you'll share the experience that you gained there

 

[wexs883198215]

Just do it! Is there anyone who is actually totally against it? Not all of us are "talented"

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

How was Pound? Hope you'll share the experience that you gained there

Pound was... quite hot. No AC, at least not on Saturday. I didn't go on Sunday since I had to work that day.

I wasn't able to learn anything new by watching or playing against Mew2King, and ChuDat is the kind who will only play you if you money match him. Regardless, I got a match out of him against his pikachu (3 stocked me, ouch). Oh, and I can't give my singles ranking since I sold my ticket to ChuDat (that changed the outcome of the tournament, didn't it? hahahaha).

I played Taj's mewtwo in 2 games. I got 2 stocked then 3 stocked.... I'm bad at this game . It wasn't enough time to make any serious developments to my vs mewtwo game, though I did pick up on a lot of his tricks. He likes to teleport sweet spot the ledge and platforms a lot. It's fairly predictable, but difficult to time. I did manage to perform a waveland off the stage to a fast falled ledge grab to edge guard and watch mewtwo fall to his death :D I noticed he also does a lot of wavedash to ftilt or even wavedash to down B (oh duh, that's all Mewtwo has, isn't it?). I wasn't able to figure out any times when I could fsmash at mewtwo and not get punished, so I eliminated it almost entirely from my game. Spacing against mewtwo was difficult because of its wavedash. Taj's uair combos with mewtwo were completely sick. I'm going to have to learn to do that stuff with mewtwo. I think it just boils down to experience.

I played KM in a marth ditto... I got 2 stocked.

I played Dark Sonic from the marth boards in a marth ditto!

Wait, no one cares who I played... so, back to the subject of this thread.

My marth guide is still incomplete, and there are many reasons why I do not wish to post it on the boards at this time. However, I am willing to e-mail my marth guide in its current state (144KB word file) to anyone who asks me via PM! Please do not request a copy in this thread! I have dial-up and it will likely be a while till I check this thread again :D Thanks!

 

[Silver Sytos]

We do care xD It's interesting hearing about people's experiences at tourneys.

 

[KYLEMARTHFALCODANIELSON]

I am a hardcore marth fan (i main him and falco and sometimes I.C.) and i have never lost a 1 on 1 battle with my marth and in fact have over 900 matches w/o a single loss yet i have never had the chance to go to a pro tournament to face the best, i have seen vids of ken and i can do everything he can and i actually think i can edgeguard better than him. I just wish there was some way i could play all of you elite players and join your ranks as the best in the business i highly respect all of you top marths and hope some day i can play one of you. my clan is thinking about going on a road trip after we graduate this year and hopefully it will be somewhere near a big tourney where i can finally get my chance to prove my skill.

 

[Imperial Wraith]

I am a hardcore marth fan (i main him and falco and sometimes I.C.) and i have never lost a 1 on 1 battle with my marth and in fact have over 900 matches w/o a single loss yet i have never had the chance to go to a pro tournament to face the best, i have seen vids of ken and i can do everything he can and i actually think i can edgeguard better than him. I just wish there was some way i could play all of you elite players and join your ranks as the best in the business i highly respect all of you top marths and hope some day i can play one of you. my clan is thinking about going on a road trip after we graduate this year and hopefully it will be somewhere near a big tourney where i can finally get my chance to prove my skill.

You can't have played many people then. I dont mean to seem harsh, but if you have not lost in 900 odd matches, the people you play against must either not actually know what learning means, or are computers. Its a common misconception that newer players have, thinking they can best Ken in anything. I used to be at that stage, till I got advanced and realised there were SO MANY minute details I wasn't even picking up on, and that I still had a loooonnngg way to go. (And also realised the vids I'd been watching are a good couple of years old )

But I maybe wrong, please post a video of yourself so we can rate it, and hopefully you can prove us wrong . You've been watching videos, and are comparing yourself to them and thus I can assume you can WD, SHDF, L-Cancel and Waveland with nigh on 100% effeciency, and have implemented them into your game perfectly.

And UMBC, i'm itching for this guide! xD

 

[KYLEMARTHFALCODANIELSON]

You can't have played many people then. I dont mean to seem harsh, but if you have not lost in 900 odd matches, the people you play against must either not actually know what learning means, or are computers. Its a common misconception that newer players have, thinking they can best Ken in anything. I used to be at that stage, till I got advanced and realised there were SO MANY minute details I wasn't even picking up on, and that I still had a loooonnngg way to go. (And also realised the vids I'd been watching are a good couple of years old )

But I maybe wrong, please post a video of yourself so we can rate it, and hopefully you can prove us wrong . You've been watching videos, and are comparing yourself to them and thus I can assume you can WD, SHDF, L-Cancel and Waveland with nigh on 100% effeciency, and have implemented them into your game perfectly.

And UMBC, i'm itching for this guide! xD

no harm done but i am not some noob like you think i have been playing this game since it came out and i have played against all humans and several have come within one stock of beating me and even gone up 2-3 stocks yet i manage to figure them out on the spot and adapt my game instantly and come all the way back to win. and yes i can do all of the things you mention about 95% of the time. i am only human and i do make mistakes but i can make up for it enough that it has never cost me (yet) i would love to make some vids and have posted about this before. how do you go about getting them w/o a camera??? i would just stick a tape in my vcr on my tv but i don't have anything to get it to the computer with. i have performed some combos before that surprised even me at how effective they were and unfortunately i am never recording them. plus i don't know how to go about editing the vids if i ever got them to the comp. and making them look and sound good like some i have seen. if you have suggestions please let me know.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

You are indeed some noob, so just shut up now before you make yourself look more ******** than you already have.

Anyone can tell you're a noob by what you've already said.

 

[KYLEMARTHFALCODANIELSON]

ha!

You are indeed some noob, so just shut up now before you make yourself look more ******** than you already have.

Anyone can tell you're a noob by what you've already said.

i can only hope that our paths cross some day so i can wipe the floor with you. i am not a noob but w/e

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Funny how that was your only comeback, how you supposedly could wipe the floor with me. So where do you live? I'm sure theres someone on these boards that is near you so they can shut your mouth.

 

[Finalsilence]

kyle is actually sora the keyblade master

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=73021&page=40

etc
this will end like
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=86553

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Stop spamming my old thread, kthxbye

I'll be back at UMBC August 20, which means back to Smash from my summer vacation. I'll begin work again on the guide soon.

Imperial Wraith, just PM me your e-mail addy and I'll send you the guide in its current state to get you started. I don't want to post it on-line till I'm ready to receive criticism, etc

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Really now, is it really him?

I'm not going to drive all that way...

Anyone volunteer?

And UMBC, if you're going to bi*** at someone, do it at the prick that revived it with his non-sense.

 

[Puffin]

So, anyway, on topic, I just wanted to say that I really support your decision to make an up-to-date Marth guide. We need it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

No, we really don't.