Mario RPG Discussion Thread

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

I'm just gonna leave this here

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[CannonStreak]

Hope this is okay, as I am quoting this so it does not get buried within the last page.

I am going to talk about Geno for Smash Bros. here, and say something I said on another thread (which was in response to a post about Sakurai wanting Geno in Smash Bros.) and I quote:

"Well, I can see that if Sakurai wanted Geno, he could have added him by now, but, there were other Square, no no...Square Enix characters to work on. I bet given how easy it is to make humanoid characters, and how many of them were in DLC of Smash Bros. Ultimate, I think that is one of the reasons why Geno probably was not DLC, other than things like Nintendo, who was picking the DLC at the time, not choosing him.

Another theory of mine, which is about why Geno was not even in the base game of Ultimate where he could have been more likely for that than DLC, is that if I heard correctly, Hero from Dragon Quest was planned for the base game of Smash Bros. Ultimate, but was moved to DLC. If this is true at all, I can see that they were focusing on other Square Enix characters at the time and not Geno, and given how many newcomers were in the base game, which were not much, I think Sakurai just did not have time to make Geno playable. "

What do you all think of all this? I am curious to know.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

I am going to talk about Geno for Smash Bros. here, and say something I said on another thread (which was in response to a post about Sakurai wanting Geno in Smash Bros.) and I quote:

"Well, I can see that if Sakurai wanted Geno, he could have added him by now, but, there were other Square, no no...Square Enix characters to work on. I bet given how easy it is to make humanoid characters, and how many of them were in DLC of Smash Bros. Ultimate, I think that is one of the reasons why Geno probably was not DLC, other than things like Nintendo, who was picking the DLC at the time, not choosing him.

Another theory of mine, which is about why Geno was not even in the base game of Ultimate where he could have been more likely for that than DLC, is that if I heard correctly, Hero from Dragon Quest was planned for the base game of Smash Bros. Ultimate, but was moved to DLC. If this is true at all, I can see that they were focusing on other Square Enix characters at the time and not Geno, and given how many newcomers were in the base game, which were not much, I think Sakurai just did not have time to make Geno playable. "

What do you all think of all this? I am curious to know.

Square was never the easiest company to work with, I’m guessing that Square just didn’t want to do Geno.

 

[CannonStreak]

Square was never the easiest company to work with, I’m guessing that Square just didn’t want to do Geno.

Yeah, you could say that. Still, at least Geno was considered for Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS as DLC before they decided on Cloud, so if Geno was being considered, I don't think Square Enix dislikes Geno that much. They might not have cared about him much, but if he was being considered, there might have been some involvement by Square Enix on that, meaning they allowed it.

Anyway, what I said you quoted was just a thought.

 

[S1itchey]

So the dream has now come true and the game has been realized....

What wants/hopes that you want come with the remake?

Personally, i would want 3 things:

1) Similar to Sparks of Hope, I don't want to have Mario stuck as my mandatory party member and would be able to customize fully. I want to go for a Geno-Mallow-Bowser myself. I like having heavy hitters on my team and healer is just the icing on the cake.

2) Geno and Mallow Amiibo. Lord, I hope this happens. Would be a missed opportunity if it didn't.

3) This

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Honestly I really don't want the last thing to happen. Replacing culex would already be disappointing but replacing him with sephiroth of all characters would be really lame imo.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Hope this is okay, as I am quoting this so it does not get buried within the last page.

I think Square simply prioritized their other franchises. And when those franchises are Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, you can't really blame them. Worth noting, they like to have Sephiroth in anything Cloud's also in, and FFVII remake was the talk of the town around the time Sephiroth was revealed. So they had a lot of incentive to add Seph over Geno. I think it's less of a case of them hating Geno, and more of a case of them liking other characters better. It's like when you're in a restaurant getting ready to order food. There are, say, five dishes on the menu that stand out to you, but you can only eat one. Just because you choose one dish doesn't mean you suddenly hate the others.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I heard there was some kind of Mario RPG remake. Sounds kinda cool but who is this "Geno" guy?

 

[CannonStreak]

I think Square simply prioritized their other franchises. And when those franchises are Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, you can't really blame them. Worth noting, they like to have Sephiroth in anything Cloud's also in, and FFVII remake was the talk of the town around the time Sephiroth was revealed. So they had a lot of incentive to add Seph over Geno. I think it's less of a case of them hating Geno, and more of a case of them liking other characters better. It's like when you're in a restaurant getting ready to order food. There are, say, five dishes on the menu that stand out to you, but you can only eat one. Just because you choose one dish doesn't mean you suddenly hate the others.

I don't think I said anything about Square Enix hating Geno, but okay.

But now that there is a remake of Super Mario RPG, I can see them having a reason to have Geno be a candidate for the next Smash.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I don't think I said anything about Square Enix hating Geno, but okay.

But now that there is a remake of Super Mario RPG, I can see them having a reason to have Geno be a candidate for the next Smash.

Oh, sorry, didn’t mean to imply you said SE hated Geno. It’s just a common thing that gets said in speculation circles, you know? “X didn’t get added, so person/company must hate X!”

 

[CannonStreak]

Oh, sorry, didn’t mean to imply you said SE hated Geno. It’s just a common thing that gets said in speculation circles, you know? “X didn’t get added, so person/company must hate X!”

It’s alright. It happens. I did not think it was because of Square Enid hating Geno anyway.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

I don’t think Square Enix hates Geno, but they threat him the same way they treat many of their old characters, barely acknowledging them.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I don’t think Square Enix hates Geno, but they threat him the same way they treat many of their old characters, barely acknowledging them.

I'm hopeful that that's changing. I had been figuring SMRPG was too much of a pain in the behind for either Nintendo or Square Enix to want to do anything with. After all, Nintendo can make any RPG with Mario they want, without including Geno and Mallow. Square-Enix can make any RPG they want as long as they don't use Mario characters. And yet, Nintendo and Square-Enix were willing and able to come back together to give us a remake. Hopefully, both companies have seen how popular Geno is, and he'll be able to show up more often.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

I'm hopeful that that's changing. I had been figuring SMRPG was too much of a pain in the behind for either Nintendo or Square Enix to want to do anything with. After all, Nintendo can make any RPG with Mario they want, without including Geno and Mallow. Square-Enix can make any RPG they want as long as they don't use Mario characters. And yet, Nintendo and Square-Enix were willing and able to come back together to give us a remake. Hopefully, both companies have seen how popular Geno is, and he'll be able to show up more often.

And Mallow

 

[EarlTamm]

Man, I wish I wasn't running on a few hours of sleep when the announcement dropped, otherwise hopping back into discussions things would have crossed my mind.

Anyway, I am really curious how this remake may impact the future of Mario RPGs, given everything that has gone down with the other RPG pillars of the Mario franchise. When I saw some of the aesthetics of the battle system, a part of me began to wonder there was some notable Mario and Luigi influence at play. Would be fitting, considering Alphadream was made up of former Square devs. I also wouldn't be shocked if Nintendo and Square both jump on the opportunity to make a sequel if the remake sells well (Which it is practically guaranteed to for a multitude of reasons), especially since Nintendo was already prepped for that back in the day with the project what would become Paper Mario.

 

[Dinoman96]

I don’t think Square Enix hates Geno, but they threat him the same way they treat many of their old characters, barely acknowledging them.

It's worth pointing out that a lot of the people who worked on Mario RPG in the day don't work at Square Enix anymore, and thus the people still there today that worked on their other Mario branded games like Hoops 3 on 3 prolly don't hold much affinity towards it. As we may know by now, some of its key players went to go work on the Mario & Luigi games. And funny enough in the very first game, they actually went up to Square Enix just to lend Geno's likeness for a mini-game. I think that says something. Even Chihiro Fujioka claims that how he wants to do a Mario RPG sequel one day.

 

[CannonStreak]

I just had a thought...

Someone said Square Enix wanted to add Sephiroth in Smash to promote the Final Fantasy VII remake, right? If so, what are the odds that they will want to add another character other than Geno into the next Smash Bros. game if they wish to promote another game? I mean, Final Fantasy has been done, so has Dragon Quest, and if we count Chrono Trigger, that series has not been touched much nowadays. I know there is a Chrono Cross game of some kind, but that was less recent as it was announced before the remake.

That said, I do remember that Geno was considered for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and DS. I think (and I could be wrong) the reason Cloud was picked before Geno was because they wanted to use the more iconic character for the DLC for that game, and Final Fantasy VII's remake was not even a thing at that time, right?

 

[Dukefire]

I just had a thought...

Someone said Square Enix wanted to add Sephiroth in Smash to promote the Final Fantasy VII remake, right? If so, what are the odds that they will want to add another character other than Geno into the next Smash Bros. game if they wish to promote another game? I mean, Final Fantasy has been done, so has Dragon Quest, and if we count Chrono Trigger, that series has not been touched much nowadays. I know there is a Chrono Cross game of some kind, but that was less recent as it was announced before the remake.

That said, I do remember that Geno was considered for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and DS. I think (and I could be wrong) the reason Cloud was picked before Geno was because they wanted to use the more iconic character for the DLC for that game, and Final Fantasy VII's remake was not even a thing at that time, right?

I guess Geno at the time of Smash 4 and Ultimate wasn't good timing due to FFVII (Sephiroth) and Dragon Quest being highly requested from fans.

Now with them out of the way, maybe he has a better shot with the next generation knowing Geno and Mallow. As long the wish is in Star Hill, the dream will not fade as the remake proves it.

Also, I wonder if we ever find out about the HIGHER AUTHORITY. The original didn't give the players a clear indication, but our imagination at the time was from the stars.

Edit: found this on twitter. Would it be funny if Culux's boss fight was replaced with Sephiroth? In a way, its Nintendo and Square Enix giving the fans a chance to vent. Though, it is a wish that might alter the game's content from the original. Still, what do you think?

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[CannonStreak]

I guess Geno at the time of Smash 4 and Ultimate wasn't good timing due to FFVII (Sephiroth) and Dragon Quest being highly requested from fans.

Now with them out of the way, maybe he has a better shot with the next generation knowing Geno and Mallow. As long the wish is in Star Hill, the dream will not fade as the remake proves it.
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Also, I wonder if we ever find out about the HIGHER AUTHORITY. The original didn't give the players a clear indication, but our imagination at the time was from the stars.

Edit: found this on twitter. Would it be funny if Culux's boss fight was replaced with Sephiroth? In a way, its Nintendo and Square Enix giving the fans a chance to vent. Though, it is a wish that might alter the game's content from the original. Still, what do you think?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Then Square Enix would have an excuse to want Sephiroth in the next Smash Bros. game over Geno. Oh wait...

But seriously, the Higher Authority sounds interesting. I doubt it would be someone like Rosalina from Super Mario Galaxy, but still, whoever is the Higher Authority, I wonder who they are and what they will be like?

 

[EarlTamm]

Then Square Enix would have an excuse to want Sephiroth in the next Smash Bros. game over Geno. Oh wait...

But seriously, the Higher Authority sounds interesting. I doubt it would be someone like Rosalina from Super Mario Galaxy, but still, whoever is the Higher Authority, I wonder who they are and what they will be like?

In the context of the time, the idea of the Higher Authority definitely had an undertone of a being what may very well be the Mario universes God. As time went on though, we got options. I have seen people really want the Star Spirits from Paper Mario, but that feels unlikely to me because of how the Paper Mario universe has been specifically separated from the non-paper Mario universe due to Paper Jam (Though Mario Party 5 is a weird wrinkle in this). Honestly, I think Rosalina could be very fitting as the Higher Authority, both in that she basically mothers the continued creation of the universe and how fitting it would be for Geno to have his own "Blue Fairy" as a part of his origins.

Edit:
Though, to add on to the point of the Star Spirits being the Higher Authority, that is possibly the original intent when they were created. With them being more specifically star beings, Star Way being Star Road in Japanese, and Paper Mario originally being SMRPG2, it paints a picture of perhaps them wanting to introduce the Higher Authority in the follow up, but having to drop the direct associations when Paper Mario became its own thing.

 

[CannonStreak]

In the context of the time, the idea of the Higher Authority definitely had an undertone of a being what may very well be the Mario universes God. As time went on though, we got options. I have seen people really want the Star Spirits from Paper Mario, but that feels unlikely to me because of how the Paper Mario universe has been specifically separated from the non-paper Mario universe due to Paper Jam (Though Mario Party 5 is a weird wrinkle in this). Honestly, I think Rosalina could be very fitting as the Higher Authority, both in that she basically mothers the continued creation of the universe and how fitting it would be for Geno to have his own "Blue Fairy" as a part of his origins.

Yeah, that would be interesting to see. It would be cool if it were Rosalina. I can't see them adding her in the remake, though.

One more thing about Geno's possible chances for Smash I want to ask everyone: Anyone worried that another character from Square Enix, particularly, but not limited to an old one like, for example Chrono from Chrono Trigger, or any newer character from the company altogether will get a new game or remake as well during the time between the Super Mario RPG remake and the next Smash Bros. and that it will affect Geno's chances? Also, in case of newer characters from Square Enix, anyone worried such characters will become popular and wanted in Smash Bros. and may be wanted instead of Geno?

 

[EarlTamm]

One more thing about Geno's possible chances for Smash I want to ask everyone: Anyone worried that another character from Square Enix, particularly, but not limited to an old one like, for example Chrono from Chrono Trigger, or any newer character from the company altogether will get a new game or remake as well during the time between the Super Mario RPG remake and the next Smash Bros. and that it will affect Geno's chances? Also, in case of newer characters from Square Enix, anyone worried such characters will become popular and wanted in Smash Bros. and may be wanted instead of Geno?

Kinda feels hard for me to worry about such things when not in the thick of Smash speculation time. They are possibilities, but it feels weird to try to account for them when SMRPG being remade is still fresh.

 

[CannonStreak]

Kinda feels hard for me to worry about such things when not in the thick of Smash speculation time. They are possibilities, but it feels weird to try to account for them when SMRPG being remade is still fresh.

I guess you are right. I was asking others as well, but I think I can now relax on the Geno in Smash thing.

 

[Dukefire]

I can safely say that eveyone's wishes were on hold since Star Road was being rebuilt for the remake. Also, if Sakurai returns or someone else starts another Smash Bros game, a NEW Star Hill will bloom to hold one's wishes......

 

[CannonStreak]

I can safely say that eveyone's wishes were on hold since Star Road was being rebuilt for the remake. Also, if Sakurai returns or someone else starts another Smash Bros game, a NEW Star Hill will bloom to hold one's wishes......

And how would that someone else who may start a new Smash Bros. game be interested in Geno? Just wondering. I know Geno is popular and all, but I can't see the new guy liking Geno as much as Sakurai.

 

[Dukefire]

And how would that someone else who may start a new Smash Bros. game be interested in Geno? Just wondering. I know Geno is popular and all, but I can't see the new guy liking Geno as much as Sakurai.

That could be a counterargument for a nearly 30 year old character and possibly others that didn't make the cut as costumes, Assist Trophy and/or spirits. I can say that Sakurai could be a co-director should he guide the new blood. If not, I don't have anything else to say.

 

[CannonStreak]

That could be a counterargument for a nearly 30 year old character and possibly others that didn't make the cut as costumes, Assist Trophy and/or spirits. I can say that Sakurai could be a co-director should he guide the new blood. If not, I don't have anything else to say.

What do you mean on the counterargument part?

Still, Geno has been in Smash as a costume (twice) and as a spirit in Ultimate. So I guess there is that.

 

[EarlTamm]

And how would that someone else who may start a new Smash Bros. game be interested in Geno? Just wondering. I know Geno is popular and all, but I can't see the new guy liking Geno as much as Sakurai.

If its a new guy, there could be good reasons for them to choose Geno. Like it or not, part of the reason so many big names were able to get in Smash is because of the clout Sakurai had in the gaming landscape. A good chunk of the current Square Enix representation is likely going to be lost in the next game if there is any truth to the old rumors of how difficult it was to even get Cloud in base game for ultimate, much less the legal nightmare of Sora. Geno, by comparison, is likely a less intensive Square rep to catch due to his nature and revived relevancy, especially when you consider how much bang for your buck the choice would get with his popularity. I also imagine the new guy would get resources from things like the Fighter Ballot that would show Geno as a big potential choice.

 

[Dukefire]

What do you mean on the counterargument part?

Still, Geno has been in Smash as a costume (twice) and as a spirit in Ultimate. So I guess there is that.

I meant argument (IDK why I said that). Wishes that are sent could come true or not. If they do, sometimes it is in another form due to limitations (Like spirits and Mii Costume). Sakurai was a man that was trying to acknowledge many characters as possible for Ultimate. However, he can only do so much as there was SO MANY wishes for this installment. When you've been creating things within your scope and beyond for so long, there are times where you can't see more pass your comfort zone.

In the end, it is up to Sakurai, Nintendo and other higher authorities to decide for profit and granting wishes.

 

[CannonStreak]

I meant argument (IDK why I said that). Wishes that are sent could come true or not. If they do, sometimes it is in another form due to limitations (Like spirits and Mii Costume). Sakurai was a man that was trying to acknowledge many characters as possible for Ultimate. However, he can only do so much as there was SO MANY wishes for this installment. When you've been creating things within your scope and beyond for so long, there are times where you can't see more pass your comfort zone.

In the end, it is up to Sakurai, Nintendo and other higher authorities to decide for profit and granting wishes.

Okay, if you say so.

But then again, I asked the question initially because people were wrong about Geno getting into Ultimate as well as their reasons behind that, and with a possible new person behind the next Smash, people could be wrong again. Not that I am doubting you or anything, plus Geno being a costume did get backlash.

If its a new guy, there could be good reasons for them to choose Geno. Like it or not, part of the reason so many big names were able to get in Smash is because of the clout Sakurai had in the gaming landscape. A good chunk of the current Square Enix representation is likely going to be lost in the next game if there is any truth to the old rumors of how difficult it was to even get Cloud in base game for ultimate, much less the legal nightmare of Sora. Geno, by comparison, is likely a less intensive Square rep to catch due to his nature and revived relevancy, especially when you consider how much bang for your buck the choice would get with his popularity. I also imagine the new guy would get resources from things like the Fighter Ballot that would show Geno as a big potential choice.

Good point on some of the characters from Square Enix not making it into the next game. With that said, Geno should not be as hard to get, especially if Square Enix is willing to play ball, right? I mean, they don't have to add him as DLC right? I heard something about Square Enix liking to do DLC when they collaborate with other companies, do they not?

 

[Dukefire]

I asked the question initially because people were wrong about Geno getting into Ultimate as well as their reasons behind that, and with a possible new person behind the next Smash, people could be wrong again. Not that I am doubting you or anything, plus Geno being a costume did get backlash.

Yeah, I am aware that history could repeat itself. Some people are preparing the Anti-Geno in case another Smash Bros is announced with SMRPG remake bringing back relevancy. For the backlash, it was the fandom itself that hyped themselves so high they imploded once the news broke out.

 

[CannonStreak]

Yeah, I am aware that some people are preparing the Anti-Geno in case another Smash Bros is announced with SMRPG remake bringing back relevancy. For the backlash, it was the fandom itself that hyped themselves so high they imploded once the news broke out.

Yeah, I know. I tried telling them to hype responsibly before and they would not listen.

BUT about the backlash, I meant that with the backlash, that will probably get Sakurai or whoever is making the next Smash Bros. to potentially listen and reconsider making Geno playable the next game, right? That is what I basically meant.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I just want to say that after the death of Mario and Luigi and a decade of horrible Paper mario games i am very much hyped for this to come out, finally, a Mario RPG on the switch.

 

[Dukefire]

I meant that with the backlash, that will probably get Sakurai or whoever is making the next Smash Bros. to potentially listen and reconsider making Geno playable the next game, right? That is what I basically meant.

That could work with that amount of negative attention. Of course, Smash Bros is business for Nintendo, so wishes could go south if they cannot get the rights. In the end, it is still too early to determine if the predictions are right or not.

 

[CannonStreak]

That could work with that amount of negative attention. Of course, Smash Bros is business for Nintendo, so wishes could go south if they cannot get the rights. In the end, it is still too early to determine if the predictions are right or not.

Predictions? Forgive me, but which ones do you mean?

Still, I do think they can get the rights to Geno, and if not, there is always DLC.

You also said something about the Anti-Geno campaign. I do think they will have a harder time arguing against Geno for Smash with the Super Mario RPG remake now being a thing.

 

[EarlTamm]

Good point on some of the characters from Square Enix not making it into the next game. With that said, Geno should not be as hard to get, especially if Square Enix is willing to play ball, right? I mean, they don't have to add him as DLC right? I heard something about Square Enix liking to do DLC when they collaborate with other companies, do they not?

I don't see how Geno would be that hard to get, especially in comparison to FF7 characters and Sora. Some might say him being relevant does put more money to his name, but I think its outweighed by the fact that Square would now see him as something that would actual promote a current product they control rather than some niche pick from their history with Nintendo. As for if they would have him be stuck as DLC, that is ahrder question to answer, as Cloud was able to get into base game, though perhaps that is part of the reason he was rumored to be so hard to get in.

I just want to say that after the death of Mario and Luigi and a decade of horrible Paper mario games i am very much hyped for this to come out, finally, a Mario RPG on the switch.

This reminds me, does anyone wonder if perhaps there is a bit of notable Mario and Luigi going on in the battle system anesthetics? I was just reminded of the series when I saw the damage pop up and I have been considering the possibility of some sort of full circle thing going on here.

 

[CannonStreak]

I don't see how Geno would be that hard to get, especially in comparison to FF7 characters and Sora. Some might say him being relevant doe sput more money to his name, but I think its outweighed by the fact that Square would now see him as something that would actual promote a current product they control rather than some niche pick from their history with Nintendo. As for if they would have him be stuck as DLC, that is ahrder question to answer, as Cloud was able to get into base game, though perhaps that is part of the reason he was rumored to be so hard to get in.

This reminds me, does anyone wonder if perhaps there is a bit of notable Mario and Luigi going on in the battle system anesthetics? I was just reminded of the series when I saw the damage pop up and I have been considering the possibility of some sort of full circle thing going on here.

Yeah, I was going to mention Cloud in base Ultimate. Thing is, while I am not so sure on this, there was apparently a time where Sakurai said "Everyone is here" almost did not happen, and some people I have seen speculated that Cloud was the one who almost did not get in the base. I am not sure on the full details, but whatever the case, you should probably get what I mean.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Love you fellow Geno chads. We ****ing won.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

To be honest, I think Sakurai always wanted to add Geno eventually, but due to various things it never happened.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I don't see how Geno would be that hard to get, especially in comparison to FF7 characters and Sora. Some might say him being relevant does put more money to his name, but I think its outweighed by the fact that Square would now see him as something that would actual promote a current product they control rather than some niche pick from their history with Nintendo. As for if they would have him be stuck as DLC, that is ahrder question to answer, as Cloud was able to get into base game, though perhaps that is part of the reason he was rumored to be so hard to get in.

This reminds me, does anyone wonder if perhaps there is a bit of notable Mario and Luigi going on in the battle system anesthetics? I was just reminded of the series when I saw the damage pop up and I have been considering the possibility of some sort of full circle thing going on here.

I'm pretty sure those are the exact same damage counters Mario and Luigi uses.

 

[EarlTamm]

I'm pretty sure those are the exact same damage counters Mario and Luigi uses.

I hope there is a future for the Mario and Luigi series, and aesthetics like that are hardly indicative of replacement, but I wonder if this may be a passing of the baton in some small way. SMRPG had its baton passed to Paper Mario and M&L in differing ways, so it feels fitting for the remake to return the favor and carry a bit of their ideas. for example, I would not be shocked if First Strikes got implemented into the remake.