MK doesn't have a matchup like that. Nor does Snake.
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Mario mains...we have a problem
- Thread starter Matador
- Start date
Theftz22
Smash Lord
MK does not. But I find DK to be a very hard character to play as snake. Wait! But then my oponent will just change to dedede. But he can't because then I'll choose... Okay fine we can play MK dittos all day long.
Monk/Honkey/Banana
Smash Champion
Shame that's not how counterpicking works
Protathlitis
Smash Cadet
Hey guys. I was thinking of starting to play as mario, but now I'm starting to reconsider. I read this whole thread, and I don't know exactly what the infinite is. I know Dedede can chaingrab and grab against the walls infinitely against a lot of characters, but what is this INFINITE that he can perform against the select five characters? Thanks for your help. 
I completely agree with this post. Honestly, just why can't tournament managers ban it? Would the repercussion really be that great? I know people hate tournament managers who bans MK, but this is completely different from banning a character....
Tage Erlander
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2008
- Messages
- 18
It's better to work around it, to make the game itself as free as can be. Banning certain moves is the same as moving into a very grey area, and the Backroomers know that. And yes, no matter how difficult Meta Knight is to fight, they should not ban him.
Oh, and guess what counterpick I'd use?
I personally don't agree with that slippery slope argument. Banning infinites is something entirely differnet from banning camping and spaming (for example). We don't have to ban anything after (except maybe for Bowsercide and other cides, but even that takes more skill than infiniting imo), unless something extremely broken is discovered.
As for me guessing your counterpick, I guess MK.
As for me guessing your counterpick, I guess MK.
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=168016
Also, you can roll out of the chaingrab to get out of the way. There's that, and stages like Shadow Moses are banned because of the infinite I believe. You've have to make your playstyle in a way in which it would be very hard to grab you when playing Mario.
Monk/Honkey/Banana
Smash Champion
They ban infinites if they effect everyone which is why they ban levels that have walls the majority of the match such as shadow moses
Neb
Smash Lord
You can always press start a thousands times and maybe get the CG'er to screw up, lol.
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
That's one cool discovery Takeshi, thanks for that link. I'm one step closer to become a Mario main. It still pisses me off that this actually requires practice though. I mean, what does that say about the garbage standards in tournaments? Not many people want to main or play with Mario competitively and all they can do is make it even worse? Ugh.
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
Not as bad as you think if you play to win. Besides, Mario's a character that's hard to win tournaments. You have to make sure you're the best one there because others will use characters that are better than Mario. Once you do that, you're good.
Yeah I realize Mario basically sucks in this game.... I don't expect him to win many tournaments, but I feel that tournament managers should make it as easy as possible to win with non very high/top tier characters at tournaments WITHOUT making the tournament system biased.
BTW, do you expect there to be European tournaments? I live in Europe and I definitely won't be travelling to US anytime so.....
For the sake of memories I'm editing this post. I might also use it as a source of information to prove my claims to people at a latter point. The thing is, I recently gotten interested in a certain field which a certain organization I once read about in a book is heavily invested in. Yes! I have been interested in this since early September. Too bad I didn't think of saving this earlier in september, but that opportunity has passed unfortunately.
BTW, do you expect there to be European tournaments? I live in Europe and I definitely won't be travelling to US anytime so.....
For the sake of memories I'm editing this post. I might also use it as a source of information to prove my claims to people at a latter point. The thing is, I recently gotten interested in a certain field which a certain organization I once read about in a book is heavily invested in. Yes! I have been interested in this since early September. Too bad I didn't think of saving this earlier in september, but that opportunity has passed unfortunately.
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
The reason why non top/high tier characters don't win tournaments so much is because they're not good enough. Simple as that. Maybe if Sakurai made it more balanced, there would be more characters able to compete well in tournaments. I hope you understand. Anyways, there could be tournaments in Europe, but not as much in the United States.
Dragonboy2k4
Smash Ace
See why I float with Mario now?
Monk/Honkey/Banana
Smash Champion
Mario only sucks because there is alot of stuff that works on him...very easily
"Mario is back and is better than we've ever seen him in smash before. Most of you have probably already heard, Mario is very good in Brawl from what we experienced. Mario has got all the combo potential he had in Melee and more. His range overall seems increased, his speed is definitely above average, his killing potential has gone up and he's got good throw setups on every character that was in the demo. But with all of these buffs and improvements, what area does Mario now struggle in? Well, to be perfectly honest, there wasn't really any area that Mario could've used much help in. Mario in most games is your all around good but not great kind of character, well this time, Mario is your all around great character. He really seems to have it all this time.
Mario's combo game is very familiar, it's very similar to Mario's combos in Melee. Down throws, up airs, up tilts, up smashes and the like to keep them up, with neutrals and smashes as some of the finishers. Mario has a good air game. He seems to have more range and priority this time around. His combo moves are basically the same, but they seem to be even easier to combo with. His airs have more hit stun than most moves did from what we saw in the Brawl demo, his neutral appears to have more range and a bit more knock back, his back air is just like Mario's was in Melee. Mario's forward air received a nice change. When Mario's fist is above him and moving forward it does a lot of killing knock back, similar to Doc's forward air from Melee, but after it goes past the horizontal mark and starts moving down it acts as a spike. This is a nice feature to have, one of the problems that Mario used to have was that he didn't have a lot of options when it came to kill moves, but this among other things seems to really help with that. Mario's down air changed a lot in this game. His down air is Mario's old down B from the other games. The moves has some nice combo potential and pops them up at the end, it also has almost no lag whatsoever after it is done. This does NOT help your recovery though, it doesn't change your momentum in any way, you cannot do a rising tornado anymore.
So Mario's air game is just as combo oriented, but how about his smashes? Well, obviously they are still good, its hard to find a bad quality about Mario at this point. His down smash is virtually the same, it does similar knock back at more or less the same speed, but it seems to have a little bit more range. Mario's forward smash does the same knock back and seems easier to sweet spot, or maybe there is not actual sweet spot to the move anymore, I never saw it land a weak hit at least. Unfortunately this move seems to be a little bit slower, and doesn't have quite as much range as it did in Melee. This may be the ONLY thing about Mario that was nerfed. I'm unsure if Mario's up smash actually has invincibly frames in Brawl, but it sure seems like it did at times. It may just have a good buff to priority in this game. At lower percentages this move seems to combo well, but at higher percentages its a good kill move. The knock back seems to scale really nicely on this move.
Mario's special moves have seen a few changes. Mario's up b has been improved for a few reasons. First it seems to do more knock back and it hits with every strike of the up b more often so its safer. Second this move has a LOT less land lag. When Mario does his up b and lands on the ground he lands on his back then just pops himself back up quickly and you are ready to go. Much less land lag, and that is very useful for his recovery. Third the move just seems improved in general because of the new sweet spot mechanics. Mario can grab backwards and even mid jump, which is GREAT for his recovery, which some people considered to be one of his weaknesses in Melee. Mario's cape is back yet again, it does help his recovery, but it fades after the first use in the air, just like in Melee. The cape has the same "turn around" feature as it did in Melee as far as I remember. Mario's down b move has changed into something completely new. A lot of the competitive players saw a lot of potential in this move when it was announced. There is no hit stun and it can be aimed, so we figured it would be an amazing edge guard. When E for All actually came and we got our chance to play our opinions on this move changed. The move (at least in our four day tests) seemed to not have any kind of realistic applications. FLUDD does no damage, and does no "real" knock back. Think of the wind effect in Melee and 64, that is essentially what this does; it simply pushes the character a small distance. This move can be charged and do more pushback, but we simply didn't see the need to apply it or see any possible uses for it. FLUDD will require more time to understand its possible uses, but for now it seems almost useless. FLUDD can be used in the air and you can keep it out for as long as you want from what we saw. The last special move is Mario's fireballs. They work a lot like they did in Melee, but it looks like they come out a little bit faster, otherwise they mostly the same.
Mario has it all in Brawl. He is plenty fast; he has great, effective, and easy combos; he has a lot of KO potential; he has good edge guarding; he has a reasonably good projectile of his own, and he is difficult to edge guard. Mario, from what we saw, was likely the best character shown at the demo - at least, at the level we were playing the game. He also has an awesome new Fire Mario costume, one of my favorites. Mario fans rejoice, he is better than his Melee counterpart in every respect."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Mario's combo game is very familiar, it's very similar to Mario's combos in Melee. Down throws, up airs, up tilts, up smashes and the like to keep them up, with neutrals and smashes as some of the finishers. Mario has a good air game. He seems to have more range and priority this time around. His combo moves are basically the same, but they seem to be even easier to combo with. His airs have more hit stun than most moves did from what we saw in the Brawl demo, his neutral appears to have more range and a bit more knock back, his back air is just like Mario's was in Melee. Mario's forward air received a nice change. When Mario's fist is above him and moving forward it does a lot of killing knock back, similar to Doc's forward air from Melee, but after it goes past the horizontal mark and starts moving down it acts as a spike. This is a nice feature to have, one of the problems that Mario used to have was that he didn't have a lot of options when it came to kill moves, but this among other things seems to really help with that. Mario's down air changed a lot in this game. His down air is Mario's old down B from the other games. The moves has some nice combo potential and pops them up at the end, it also has almost no lag whatsoever after it is done. This does NOT help your recovery though, it doesn't change your momentum in any way, you cannot do a rising tornado anymore.
So Mario's air game is just as combo oriented, but how about his smashes? Well, obviously they are still good, its hard to find a bad quality about Mario at this point. His down smash is virtually the same, it does similar knock back at more or less the same speed, but it seems to have a little bit more range. Mario's forward smash does the same knock back and seems easier to sweet spot, or maybe there is not actual sweet spot to the move anymore, I never saw it land a weak hit at least. Unfortunately this move seems to be a little bit slower, and doesn't have quite as much range as it did in Melee. This may be the ONLY thing about Mario that was nerfed. I'm unsure if Mario's up smash actually has invincibly frames in Brawl, but it sure seems like it did at times. It may just have a good buff to priority in this game. At lower percentages this move seems to combo well, but at higher percentages its a good kill move. The knock back seems to scale really nicely on this move.
Mario's special moves have seen a few changes. Mario's up b has been improved for a few reasons. First it seems to do more knock back and it hits with every strike of the up b more often so its safer. Second this move has a LOT less land lag. When Mario does his up b and lands on the ground he lands on his back then just pops himself back up quickly and you are ready to go. Much less land lag, and that is very useful for his recovery. Third the move just seems improved in general because of the new sweet spot mechanics. Mario can grab backwards and even mid jump, which is GREAT for his recovery, which some people considered to be one of his weaknesses in Melee. Mario's cape is back yet again, it does help his recovery, but it fades after the first use in the air, just like in Melee. The cape has the same "turn around" feature as it did in Melee as far as I remember. Mario's down b move has changed into something completely new. A lot of the competitive players saw a lot of potential in this move when it was announced. There is no hit stun and it can be aimed, so we figured it would be an amazing edge guard. When E for All actually came and we got our chance to play our opinions on this move changed. The move (at least in our four day tests) seemed to not have any kind of realistic applications. FLUDD does no damage, and does no "real" knock back. Think of the wind effect in Melee and 64, that is essentially what this does; it simply pushes the character a small distance. This move can be charged and do more pushback, but we simply didn't see the need to apply it or see any possible uses for it. FLUDD will require more time to understand its possible uses, but for now it seems almost useless. FLUDD can be used in the air and you can keep it out for as long as you want from what we saw. The last special move is Mario's fireballs. They work a lot like they did in Melee, but it looks like they come out a little bit faster, otherwise they mostly the same.
Mario has it all in Brawl. He is plenty fast; he has great, effective, and easy combos; he has a lot of KO potential; he has good edge guarding; he has a reasonably good projectile of his own, and he is difficult to edge guard. Mario, from what we saw, was likely the best character shown at the demo - at least, at the level we were playing the game. He also has an awesome new Fire Mario costume, one of my favorites. Mario fans rejoice, he is better than his Melee counterpart in every respect."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
Yeah I see why. All that jumping and evasion you do is the reason why.See why I float with Mario now?
Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sorry if I am, but it wouldn't be that hard to avoid DDD chaingrabs most of the time. Just keep combat in the air. More importantly, unless there's a wall, it's more of an annoyance than a threat. Mario's up-B is fairly fast and can get back up on stage if he's chaingrabbed off.
Koop_88
Smash Journeyman
Speaking as a top UK brawler and a D3 main, you are going to come up against D3's with the following problems.
D3 has huge range.
D3 is stupidly hard to spike, his vertical recovery is incredible.
D3's projectiles > Marios.
D3 can infinite a mario.
Now, it IS possible to break out of the chain grab. I have had my chaingrab interrupted by a mario tapping upB a few times. This is generally down to poor timing on the D3's part, but you need to remember that nobody, even people like Aero and M2K, can time every chain throw perfectly, so don't give up hope.
I will say this only once for the sake of my pride... Mario's cape is scary ****. If I get caped doing an UpB, I'm ****ed. Hell if I get caped at all there's going to be an opening because lets face it, D3 is a fatass.
Keep the combat in the air could be suggested to beat a D3, however that is never a worry for a D3. Not only do D3's have more range in the air, but our Bair has as MUCH priority as yours.
This is Mario's worst match-up ever. Period. And I'm afraid the only advice I can give you is...
GET YOUR CAPE OUT!
D3 has huge range.
D3 is stupidly hard to spike, his vertical recovery is incredible.
D3's projectiles > Marios.
D3 can infinite a mario.
Now, it IS possible to break out of the chain grab. I have had my chaingrab interrupted by a mario tapping upB a few times. This is generally down to poor timing on the D3's part, but you need to remember that nobody, even people like Aero and M2K, can time every chain throw perfectly, so don't give up hope.
I will say this only once for the sake of my pride... Mario's cape is scary ****. If I get caped doing an UpB, I'm ****ed. Hell if I get caped at all there's going to be an opening because lets face it, D3 is a fatass.
Keep the combat in the air could be suggested to beat a D3, however that is never a worry for a D3. Not only do D3's have more range in the air, but our Bair has as MUCH priority as yours.
This is Mario's worst match-up ever. Period. And I'm afraid the only advice I can give you is...
GET YOUR CAPE OUT!
Can you just roll back when D3 attempts to chaingrab you over an over on a flat stage as Mario? Or use a Nair maybe? I've never played as Mario against a D3 chaingrab so I don't really know for sure, it sounds good though. Sorry ;P
Also, counterpicking stages that's not in D3's favor sounds like a great idea in a tourney. Far as overall match up wise. Play the match slow, let him make the first moves on you since hes slow I suppose.
Also, counterpicking stages that's not in D3's favor sounds like a great idea in a tourney. Far as overall match up wise. Play the match slow, let him make the first moves on you since hes slow I suppose.
Veggi
Smash Champion
Sadly, Mario can't do anything about it unless the D3 player messes up.
Mario is the greatest brawler
Smash Apprentice
what do u mean matador? have u seen this n a youtube video becus ddd is like the easiest thing for me
Oh wow. That sucks.
I guess the stage would be you're only option left then as a Mario main. As a good Dedede main will probably focus strongly on grabbing you.I was watching on youtube this mew2king guy's D3 against a Lucario. Now that was a chaingrab/Bair monster of a player there.
shadenexus18
Smash Master
Agreed. But I really wouldn't risk it in a tournament where $ is on the line. Just play it safe and pick G&W. (or someone else that you're good with)
Mario is the greatest brawler
Smash Apprentice
yo i seen ddd on youtube n he can only grab mario 5 times. if tech grabbin does exist it can save u som damage but if it doesnt i bet i can still kick any ddds *** anytime wit mario
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
I'd risk it. I just have to make sure I outperform him. Sure, it'll be harder with Mario, but it'll be fun and challenging. You know what? Just for that, I'm going to wreck you with Mario on Wi-Fi if you can go today, Shadenexus! Oh, and Shadenexus and I have had this rivalry of ours for about 7 months or so. Oh, and farazes, he is better but he still has match-ups that are a pain. That means we have to work harder because of his limitations. He doesn't suck, but he's not a good character. He's average and I'm fine with that because I have fun playing him.
Monk/Honkey/Banana
Smash Champion
you really don't know what you're talking about
Mario is the greatest brawler
Smash Apprentice
yo monk whats ur beef man? what do u mean i dont what im talkin about? do u have a ? about tech grabbin?
ignor this. ive seen ur vids and i got respect 4 u now but please no disrespect 2 me ether. in case ur wonderin i posted dat **** on da 1st paragraf a while ago
ignor this. ive seen ur vids and i got respect 4 u now but please no disrespect 2 me ether. in case ur wonderin i posted dat **** on da 1st paragraf a while ago
TheX0913
Smash Apprentice
i hear you can press A during a certiann frame of a grab to immediately cancel the opponents grab. also, im more than sure you can up b out of any infinite grab.
Mario is the greatest brawler
Smash Apprentice
id tried to press a and have been practisin but wit no success i hear people have pulled it off but they never upload a video but im sure you can up b wit mario to combo break anyways
Monk/Honkey/Banana
Smash Champion
Quoted for truth
smashbro29
Smash Champion
Proof Brawl NEEDS downloadable patches!
It seems it's not as big a problem as I used to think. The ddd wasn't a difficult one before the infinite, it shouldn't be now. You just have to count on them going for the grab every time they get the chance. Then they could screw up, or you could time A and get an auto break.