vato_break
Smash Master
I find spamming upB at low percent works because people don't like to airdodge into the ground everytime LOL. Also I think it serves as a good mixup because if an airdodge is baited...well
:^)
:^)
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Gonna add that a lot of characters have this problem with Sheik from what I can tell. She's ridonk in this game lol. IDK what kind of secondary you'd even want to pull against her if you play Mario TBH.I failed you guys. Tried to go 100% Mario today, but the baby brother forced me off >_>. Matches got recorded though, so I'll link them to the video thread later.
I still feel like Sheik is a major uphill battle, possibly to the point that Mario will need a secondary to deal with her. Maybe I'm playing the MU incorrectly, but I feel like she can do basically whatever she wants and Mario struggles to punish if she does it properly.
Up+B is best served to end strings or combos to rack up % IMO. It kind of helps but not a whole ton, but the faster you can get them to mid % the faster they wriggle in fear.I find spamming upB at low percent works because people don't like to airdodge into the ground everytime LOL. Also I think it serves as a good mixup because if an airdodge is baited...well
:^)
Holy crap even the box looks nice
No idea. Even if he does, Marth doesn't seem to be a good character in this game so he won't be everywhere, like he was in Brawl's early days and Melee.Does Mario still get **** on by Marth like he did in Melee?
In Melee, Mario gimped the **** out of Marth with ledgedrop B-airs, and you could crouch cancel every aerial he did for free punishes at low percents, not to mention crouch -> F-smash could punish a lot of Marth's air spacing. Sure, the matchup got more stupid once Marth starts to D-tilt, but the difficulty of the matchup is highly overstated.I mean he's not BAD by any means but I think he lacks the dominance that let him shut down people like he used to. Don't get me wrong it's not a good matchup by any means but I don't really think it's as bad as it used to be only because Marth isn't as flexible. When looking at him vs. Mario in both Melee and Brawl I feel it was bad for Mario not just cause of range but because it was range and lack of real lag on a lot of Marth's better options.
Cape stalling was nerfed from Brawl, you can only do it onceGuess I have something to work on if I plan to make an impact at Apex. Thanks for the link Hero. I might as well ask more questions if I'm trying to get better. What is so bad about cape stalling in this game? I use it just fine. Also what does Marth do in this game? To me he feels a lot like Falco in which they lost their bread and butter (for Marth, fair and dancing blade) and didn't really get anything to compensate. This matchup was very heavily in Marth's favor in past installments. I'm not coming to a final conclusion yet, but this MU looks very winnable for Mario.
Yes. I don't know why he went by the former for a while though.I got a question to ask: is Scorpionmaster & Mango are the same person?
You actually lose height when Cape stalling in this game without Gust Cape. This hurts Mario's recovery options and ability to outspace juggles considerably. You can't bait juggles in nearly the same manner in Smash 4, nor space as dynamically. Basically, it gives your opponent a considerably smaller prediction window to follow your aerial movement (given you can't really directly contest juggle attempts anyway). In Brawl and Melee, you could often reactively Cape Stall to avoid a lot of precise juggle traps. You can't really do that in Smash 4 because of how much less Cape Stalling alters your momentum this game, meaning in many more situations, you have to do it preemtively for it to have a chance of messing up your opponent's spacing.Guess I have something to work on if I plan to make an impact at Apex. Thanks for the link Hero. I might as well ask more questions if I'm trying to get better. What is so bad about cape stalling in this game? I use it just fine. Also what does Marth do in this game? To me he feels a lot like Falco in which they lost their bread and butter (for Marth, fair and dancing blade) and didn't really get anything to compensate. This matchup was very heavily in Marth's favor in past installments. I'm not coming to a final conclusion yet, but this MU looks very winnable for Mario.
Fireball is irrelevant in neutral... right?You actually lose height when Cape stalling in this game without Gust Cape. This hurts Mario's recovery options and ability to outspace juggles considerably. You can't bait juggles in nearly the same manner in Smash 4, nor space as dynamically. Basically, it gives your opponent a considerably smaller prediction window to follow your aerial movement (given you can't really directly contest juggle attempts anyway). In Brawl and Melee, you could often reactively Cape Stall to avoid a lot of precise juggle traps. You can't really do that in Smash 4 because of how much less Cape Stalling alters your momentum this game, meaning in many more situations, you have to do it preemtively for it to have a chance of messing up your opponent's spacing.
Falco got buffed Shine, a considerably better recovery, and kept Brawl level damage in a game where everyone else got big damage nerfs. Marth's aerials are all still good without SH double aerial gimmicks. Also Marth's bread and butter is high mobility, range, and lethal traps and edgeguards which he still has.
Mario vs Marth was very winnable in Melee. Stupid but potentially rewarding in Brawl. And in Smash 4 it's just lame and not cool at all for Mario. Mario's options to do stupid things to make up for losing neutral have progressively gotten worse each game, while Marth's reward has consistently remained really strong. So thus I would easily believe that this matchup is in fact hardest for Mario in Smash 4, even though neutral technically is less horrible for Mario than before, simply because there are overall fewer situations where Mario is at a significant advantage. In Melee, you force Marth to play carefully with the threat of crouch canceling and WD out of shield to punish him, and any time you get him offstage is a moment where you can instantly kill him with ledgedrop B-air. In Brawl, you have Jab cancel -> almost anything on him, and your D-throw/U-throw setups at low percents are actually really scary for Marth, plus ledgedrop N-air gimps him easily still. So basically in both Melee and Brawl, Marth actually had to be afraid of you if he ever let you get in, because you actually had great reward in hard read situations.
In Smash 4...what does Mario even have? His strings do less damage in this game. He's limited to basically FLUDD to attempt outplaying Marth offstage. F-smash is harder to land for Mario without Brawl reverse mechanics. And Marth still very easily kills Mario when juggling and edgeguarding. Assuming you manage to hit Marth about the same number of times he hits you (which is being really generous), you are very likely to lose on the basis of reward, simply because you aren't surviving his juggles and edgeguards, while Marth in contrast is less vulnerable to gimps and traps in comparison. Keeping in mind you STILL don't win neutral.
Marth has more range, more mobility than Mario (this is huge because it means Fireballs are often very risky in this matchup), and also has very fast attacks that are hard for Mario to punish on block. Mario has a slightly better U-smash and slightly better grab reward, but I don't see how this makes Mario overall better at actually landing hits in this matchup.Fireball is irrelevant in neutral... right?
Also, again with basing matchups around who deals more damage.
We know that Marth is still hard for Mario to fight, but if Mario
could win in past games, he can still do it here.
And stop using Mario's low damage as an excuse for why Mario loses.
It doesn't make it easier for him, but it also doesn't dictate
whether Mario wins or loses. Not to mention he's more likely to actually
LAND those hits when he gets the chance due to his attack speed.
Use Diddy.Alright I have now gotten the game. Any pointers you guys can give me on this guy? I already learned several things about the game, and I have definitely learned mario well (I think). Match-Up advice would be awesome, and possibly Cape Brake usage, I don't think I'm using/doing Cape Brake correctly. NNID: T25XLikesMario
I don't think Cape Brake is actually legit. It might have just been Vectoring.I don't think I'm using/doing Cape Brake correctly.
Aah alright, well that kinda sucks. Welp. Any other Mario ATs?I don't think Cape Brake is actually legit. It might have just been Vectoring.
XDUse Diddy.
Yea I don't aim to be the best player (or best player for a specific character) I just try to be the best I can be. And I've been doing pretty well with him so far, now I just need mu advice. I haven't fought all characters yet. but I've fought most of the newcomers. Anyways thank you, I appreciate itT25, I think the best advice I can give you without seeing you play is to not try and become the best Mario you can. Become the best player you can. NAKAT's goal is not to be the best Ness. His goal is to be the best player and Ness is the character that he believes can help him achieve that goal. Don't worry about little mechanical character specific things as much and work more on your fundamentals. If you can't space, read, and punish you will not win regardless of your character.
As for actual Mario advice, Mario is a great character in this game. I've met a good amount of people who think he's top 10, but I personally don't see it that way. His moveset for the most part is quite fast and his moves connect pretty well. However, be aware that his range and recovery are both below average and he gets juggled fairly easily. Be sure to DI the proper way to help prevent this. For dealing with recovering, hold your jump as long as you can. If you get your jump clipped, your chances of recovering are slim.
It was also debunked. It's always been invincible frame 3-6.