Social Mario Hotel - Super Social 4

[Luig]

To be fair, that move was broken.

Yeah.

Though to compensate for dsmash Mario's usmash is really good.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Yeah.

Though to compensate for dsmash Mario's usmash is really good.

True. Was Mario's up smash that good in Brawl? I remember his forward smash being disgusting because of stutter-stepping, which I'm still nettled at for getting removed.

 

[Luig]

True. Was Mario's up smash that good in Brawl? I remember his forward smash being disgusting because of stutter-stepping, which I'm still nettled at for getting removed.

Mario in brawl had a hard time killing in general, and his only reliable kill moves were his smashes, which I'm glad he has more now.

I believe they did something to his upsmash, but I'm not sure what.

Yeah, stutter stepping was cool, more range is always good.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Mario in brawl had a hard time killing in general, and his only reliable kill moves were his smashes, which I'm glad he has more now.

I believe they did something to his upsmash, but I'm not sure what.

Yeah, stutter stepping was cool, more range is always good.

Killing has never been Mario's strong suit. Not in Brawl, nor this game. At least he didn't get Luigi'd. Remember how he could two neutral airs in a short hop? Or how late neutral air comboed into FJP?
Mario in general lost a lot of the fun techniques he had in Brawl. Cape Stalling, Cape Gliding, dealing damage, stutter-stepping, Wall of Pain-ing, etc.

 

[Luig]

The main thing I remember mario for in brawl was cape gliding into a fair for style.

Now special moves can't even go off ledges anymore for some reason.


And a lot of people seem to think Mario is just Dthrow up tilt -_-

 

[MarioMeteor]

The main thing I remember mario for in brawl was cape gliding into a fair for style.

Now special moves can't even go off ledges anymore for some reason.


And a lot of people seem to think Mario is just Dthrow up tilt -_-

I mean, they sort of stripped him down to the bone in this one. He's pretty much the most basic ***** character in the game. Not that there's anything wrong with simplicity, but I liked my fancy tech...

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

I do wonder if brawl will start showing up more again, what with its showing at smash con. It'd be nice to see again

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

I mean, they sort of stripped him down to the bone in this one. He's pretty much the most basic ***** character in the game. Not that there's anything wrong with simplicity, but I liked my fancy tech...

The biggest technical thing I know of in this game for Mario is freakingjab locks, lol. I agree with that

 

[Luig]

I guess they really wanted Mario to be a beginner character, after all they did say they didn't like melee because smash was supposed to be for people who didn't like all the ats and stuff, so they started dumbing the game down I guess.

 

[MarioMeteor]

The biggest technical thing I know of in this game for Mario is freakingjab locks, lol. I agree with that

At least they kept his jab locks. Not that it's very practical, but it's nice to have something left over.

I guess they really wanted Mario to be a beginner character, after all they did say they didn't like melee because smash was supposed to be for people who didn't like all the ats and stuff, so they started dumbing the game down I guess.

I'm totally fine with that, but don't you find it kinda funny how Brawl Mario, who was supposed to be the beginner character, had all kinds of tech, and 4 Mario, who's less balanced that all his other incarnations, got it all taken away?

 

[Luig]

At least they kept his jab locks. Not that it's very practical, but it's nice to have something left over.

I'm totally fine with that, but don't you find it kinda funny how Brawl Mario, who was supposed to be the beginner character, had all kinds of tech, and 4 Mario, who's less balanced that all his other incarnations, got it all taken away?

Its a bit weird.

They should have at least left some stuff there for the more competitive players.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Imagine if Mario could stutter-step his forward smash, DACUS, and had his Brawl down smash.

 

[Luig]

I'd be happy.

Also, yesterday I was messing around and thought of this.

 

[Xeze]

I mean, they sort of stripped him down to the bone in this one. He's pretty much the most basic ***** character in the game. Not that there's anything wrong with simplicity, but I liked my fancy tech...

It's not like many Smash 4 characters have "fancy tech" anyway.

 

[miniada]

I'd be happy.

Also, yesterday I was messing around and thought of this.

Mario has a 0 to death that's hard to pull of up throw then dair and try to use up b if you get it you will now

 

[MarioMeteor]

It's not like many Smash 4 characters have "fancy tech" anyway.

Fair enough, but still. There wasn't a reason to take what they had.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Going Mario as my secondary. I'm going to use him if I fight Diddy Kong.

Sheik seems to be by far his worst matchup, though. What an absolute pain in the ass to get around.

 

[Macedonian]

Rango the Mercenary Mario V shiek aint that bad, mario can combo the hell out of sheik at all percents. i mean its still hard becuase she has better range and needles. but i think marios sheik match up is better then most characters. Im of the opinion that luigi and ness are the big threats to mario.

speaking of which how does ike fair against luigi or ness, ive been using a ton of ike lately cause he is fun as hell, but is he usefull for competition?

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

Rango the Mercenary Mario V shiek aint that bad, mario can combo the hell out of sheik at all percents. i mean its still hard becuase she has better range and needles. but i think marios sheik match up is better then most characters. Im of the opinion that luigi and ness are the big threats to mario.

speaking of which how does ike fair against luigi or ness, ive been using a ton of ike lately cause he is fun as hell, but is he usefull for competition?

Yeah I think Ike is pretty good. Disjoint characters are typically good against luigi I believe, seeing as Roy, Marth and Lucina all have good match ups against him. I'm not sure about ness, but I'd assume it's not too bad.

 

[miniada]

So whos watching this thread

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Rango the Mercenary Mario V shiek aint that bad, mario can combo the hell out of sheik at all percents. i mean its still hard becuase she has better range and needles. but i think marios sheik match up is better then most characters. Im of the opinion that luigi and ness are the big threats to mario.

speaking of which how does ike fair against luigi or ness, ive been using a ton of ike lately cause he is fun as hell, but is he usefull for competition?

Luigi and Ness are neutral gods. They may not have a disjoint, but their range is good enough that, if you're not max-range away, they'll beat you out every time and take you 0-60% in no time.

Throwing Ness off-stage instantly puts the matchup in your favor. You can gimp him bad and finish him with Counter or Eruption. Luigi's Green Missile also gets countered. If he goes offstage, it's over.

Luigi is only godmode against Ike online. Offline, take him to Duck Hunt and he can't kill you easily.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Going Mario as my secondary. I'm going to use him if I fight Diddy Kong.

Sheik seems to be by far his worst matchup, though. What an absolute pain in the *** to get around.

Diddy is probably harder than Sheik for Mario, to be blatantly honest. Mario can only answer F-air walling "easily" with U-smash, but this loses to most other things Diddy can do, and you obviously can't fish for this if Diddy has a Banana.

 

[Xeze]

Diddy is probably harder than Sheik for Mario, to be blatantly honest. Mario can only answer F-air walling "easily" with U-smash, but this loses to most other things Diddy can do, and you obviously can't fish for this if Diddy has a Banana.

Funny that there are people from the Diddy boards say that Mario is a hard matchup for him.

 

[Mega-Xander]

Funny that there are people from the Diddy boards say that Mario is a hard matchup for him.

IS it possible that it's just hard to face a player who knows how to play their main?

In all seriousness though both Diddy and Mario have good combo potential, a projectile (except one helps to set up for the combos a lot more... stupid bananas...) and good aerial mobility... Diddy's just got some pretty good kill confirms

 

[miniada]

I feel diddy Is a very even MU that's 55:45

Hi, I tend to play with a couple Diddy mains here and there so I feel like I can report a bit of info on the MU.

Neutral: as you could obviously predict, the neutral revolves solely around grabs. Both characters have a pretty strong neutral. While Diddy has banana set ups and can move all over the place with reverse peanut popgun cancels and B reversed bananas, Side B to boost crawl e.t.c. Mario has the ability of completely shutting down Diddy's Peanuts with our Fireball, we also have slightly better frame data all around except when he is right above diddy or they are both facing each other aerially. Utilt And Usmash act as great anti-airs for diddys that try to get cute with mindless jumping but the same could be said with Diddy's Utilt and SHFF Uair. A good tip to deal with the banana is to try to not shield it, shielding the banana can lead to Mario getting grabbed. I've found that it's a lot more effective to, at far distances, cape the banana. At mid-range distances, Perfect Shielding and immediately jabbing to stop Diddy from Dash grabbing and at closer distances try to either Spot Dodge or try to see if you can clank the banana with a jab and then jab again.

-In Summary: try and get a grab and don't get grabbed. Don't approach with SHFF Nair too much. Well placed Fireballs can easily lead to grabs and be aware of the banana set ups. I'd say the neutral is pretty even with Mario having a very minuscule advantage.


Advantage: AKA after getting the grab. Well at lower %s Mario has a better instant reward damage-wise, Dthrow to Utilt until you can tell they've DI'ed up, for the most part Diddy will try to jump away and Mario can catch that with some Uairs, of course at higher %s you rely a lot more in juggles, and juggling a good Diddy can be hell since they can easily maneuver all over the place with their exclusive techs. Again, Mario can try to punish this with his Usmash. On the other hand Diddy's combo game has more options than Mario, but has a harder time executing them. At low %s Diddy has some great combos that are DI dependent, You can either get hit by a bunch of Uairs and then try to land, or Di to a side and get hit by a Fair/Bair that leaves Diddy with an edgeguard opportunity.Luckily for us he needs to fish for those airdodges at high %s if he really wants to get that stock.

-In Summary: Both characters have relatively similar advantageous states, they are both very good at Uair juggling and can also set up into edgeguard situations with Bair(or Fair for Diddy).I'd say they both have very similar advantageous states as far as comboing goes. For advantage while trying to take a stock read the "Getting the stock" section down below.


Disadvantage: Both characters have a decent disadvantage state. Mario has that incredible frame 3 Nair that allows him to escape from Diddy's strings every so often. Diddy doesn't quite have that, if you're not careful and fast though you might take a sudden Up B and die from the explosion but that is something that has rarely ever happened to me at least. Mario can also use the FLUDD to keep Diddy away. I do not know if Diddy can Side B out of Mario's combos.

-In summary: I'd say Mario has a slightly better disadvantage state than diddy solely because of how good Nair is.


Edgeguarding: Both characters have pretty lacking recoveries. While Mario is edgeguarding diddy, if Diddy charges his up B too close to the stage Mario can just drop and Nair/ RAR Bair him to edgeguard him. FLUDD is also pretty good at messing up Diddy's Up B. If he side Bs though, things are a little more complicated for Mario. Mario can still edgeguard him it just requires more precision, you can try to cape or just throw a Bair and wait for diddy to come into the hitbox. While Diddy is edguarding the plummer, it is all about diddy getting rid of Mario's jump. without his jump, Diddy can just meet the plummer in the air and Fair him and there goes the stock.

-In summary: Both characters have fairly good edgeguarding options but Diddy has a slight advantage since he has broader options.

Taking the stock: similar to the neutral stance, taking the stock on-stage revolves around good anti airs for Mario as well as getting a grab for both characters.Both characters have Bthrows that can KO at similar percents but Diddy has an easier time netting the KO from a grab and into a combo and he also has the ability to set up for Fsmashes with the banana. Mario has issues netting the KO from a grab other than Bthrowing at the edge but to compensate that we have the all mighty Usmash, don't spam it but now that if Diddy dares to jump, that could very easily be the stock. Usmash also kills much earlier than most of Diddy's options.

-In summary: Both characters have very good ways to net the stock, but the presence of Mario's invincible Usmash as well as it KOing earlier give Mario an advantage.


Overall summary: This match up is very close, I wouldn't call it a 55-45 but neither would I call it 50-50. If I'm forced to pick one(which is why I dislike this ratios) I'd have to go with a very even 55-45

and this is why

 

[Macedonian]

wtf i have never ever once thought that we loose the matchup nor heard people complain about it when playing with local people or online.

like you really just think walling with fairs wins the matchup?

Rango the Mercenary thank you for the imput, i guess i should keep looking for sombondy to deal with these problem matchups, what have others done to combat weegee and ness?

 

[KenMeister]

Diddy is probably harder than Sheik for Mario, to be blatantly honest. Mario can only answer F-air walling "easily" with U-smash, but this loses to most other things Diddy can do, and you obviously can't fish for this if Diddy has a Banana.

I feel like a decent answer to that is that if you can read it, perfect shield the fair if it's used close to the ground and UpB OoS since Diddy's fair has a bit of landing lag unlike Luigi's.

 

[Mintcario]

Is there a Mario skype chat around? I'm not a Mario main but just wanting to play some of the players to help learn the mu. ;A;

 

[A2ZOMG]

wtf i have never ever once thought that we loose the matchup nor heard people complain about it when playing with local people or online.

like you really just think walling with fairs wins the matchup?

Rango the Mercenary thank you for the imput, i guess i should keep looking for sombondy to deal with these problem matchups, what have others done to combat weegee and ness?

It's not just simply walling with F-airs. Diddy's entire neutral game is better than Mario's, and he is not a trivial character to land trap either for free U-smash kills given his mixup options.

Given the buffs to Diddy's ground game, it's actually scarier to try to blitz Diddy on the ground than it was in previous patches when he gets KO setups from D-tilt and buffed D-smash/U-smash certainly help him. By design, can't see how Mario wins this matchup when he's generally speaking playing against a character who has similar but better tools.

Sheik technically also outclasses Mario in neutral but her reward from setups isn't as good overall, meaning Mario can afford to take more risks against her.

 

[HeroMystic]

S smasher1001

Don't contest Pikachu off stage. You want to keep stage control and read their ledge options.

Fighting Pikachu off-stage is almost always a bad idea due to his extreme mobility and gimp options.

 

[smasher1001]

S smasher1001

Don't contest Pikachu off stage. You want to keep stage control and read their ledge options.

Fighting Pikachu off-stage is almost always a bad idea due to his extreme mobility and gimp options.

Ahahahaaaaa... Guessing you saw the vs esam fight then. Yeah, I was told that by multiple people after the set lol, doesn't make the advice any less valid though, I definitely should've just played it safe on stage. Both my stock losses game 2 were from gimps fighting offstage X.X It was a fun match though. I seriously felt like I had a shot at winning vs him.

Ended up placing 33rd in big house, losing to ESAM and LOE1 by the skin of my teeth, had a 60% lead on em and he went for an all or nothing jump onto the smashville platform and try to grab and f-throw.it worked and I lost game 3 lol. Not bad people to lose to at all, just a shame I didn't make it further. Really felt like I was on the cusp of placing significantly higher.

 

[MonkeyArms]

What's up Mario Mains.
I pretty much main every bro in every game, but I haven't really felt like my Mario was good enough to main in tournament until today. One thing I want to ask: How do you guys think Mario does against Mega Man, Yoshi, and Ganon? Ganon (especially the new one) I've had a lot of trouble with Doc and Luigi because of their inability to get reliable punishes on him. Yoshi is just flat out annoying with Doc and Luigi. (I think Doc is better than Mario against Yoshi though, not sure.) And Mega Man is just an absolute trash matchup for Doc and Luigi.

 

[smasher1001]

I main Mario and secondary mega(though 'm getting him closer to my co-main gameplay level plan) and I can tell you that mario does very well against mega. He's simply fast enough to get past megas zoning, you have the cape for meta blades and f-smash charges(which the mega should almost never throw out due to your cape, but yeah).

And mario combos the hell out of mega. Luigi is in megas favor in the neutral quite a bit, as he's not as agile as mario, but if he gets in he gets a crap ton of dmg jst like mario, it's just hard to get in, so megas favor for that.

I'm not sure on doc, he's mario but he doesnt have marios speed which is important in getting past megas zoning game.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

What's up Mario Mains.
I pretty much main every bro in every game, but I haven't really felt like my Mario was good enough to main in tournament until today. One thing I want to ask: How do you guys think Mario does against Mega Man, Yoshi, and Ganon? Ganon (especially the new one) I've had a lot of trouble with Doc and Luigi because of their inability to get reliable punishes on him. Yoshi is just flat out annoying with Doc and Luigi. (I think Doc is better than Mario against Yoshi though, not sure.) And Mega Man is just an absolute trash matchup for Doc and Luigi.

I know both doc and Mario have a pretty good matchup against Ganon, I've been able to take advantage of a lot of different things there. Mostly Ganons worse neutral and poor recovery can just be exploited like crazy. Especially now that shield stun is changed. I haven't fought enough yoshis or mega man players, they really aren't the easiest to find

 

[MonkeyArms]

I know both doc and Mario have a pretty good matchup against Ganon, I've been able to take advantage of a lot of different things there. Mostly Ganons worse neutral and poor recovery can just be exploited like crazy. Especially now that shield stun is changed. I haven't fought enough yoshis or mega man players, they really aren't the easiest to find

Shield stun is actually the reason I find ganon good against doc now.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

MonkeyArms Yeah I guess that makes sense but doc is more capable of using other approaches than run up shield than ganon is in my opinion. Its probably a pretty close matchup. On the other hand, Mario can pressure shields pretty well id say now that the shield stun is increased so it's certainly better for Mario than it is doc

 

[MarioMeteor]

What's up Mario Mains.
I pretty much main every bro in every game, but I haven't really felt like my Mario was good enough to main in tournament until today. One thing I want to ask: How do you guys think Mario does against Mega Man, Yoshi, and Ganon? Ganon (especially the new one) I've had a lot of trouble with Doc and Luigi because of their inability to get reliable punishes on him. Yoshi is just flat out annoying with Doc and Luigi. (I think Doc is better than Mario against Yoshi though, not sure.) And Mega Man is just an absolute trash matchup for Doc and Luigi.

Mega Man, I don't enough to say because I dropped Mega a while ago, Yoshi is bad for us, at least I think so, and Ganondorf is heavily in our favor. Luigi is a terrible choice for Mega because Luigi + projectiles = doom, Doc I feel is better for Yoshi because the extra power and that back air helps a lot, and all three of them just wreck Ganondorf. I could see Luigi struggling with Ganondorf now that he can no longer combo him six ways to Sunday.

 

[KenMeister]

Mega Man, I don't enough to say because I dropped Mega a while ago, Yoshi is bad for us, at least I think so, and Ganondorf is heavily in our favor. Luigi is a terrible choice for Mega because Luigi + projectiles = doom, Doc I feel is better for Yoshi because the extra power and that back air helps a lot, and all three of them just wreck Ganondorf. I could see Luigi struggling with Ganondorf now that he can no longer combo him six ways to Sunday.

Yoshi isn't bad, he's just really obnoxious to deal with, we generally have the better neutral game since we have better aerial spacing tools (uair and bair) and fireballs to mess with his approaches, since Yoshi's lack of good spacing tools really hinders him in the long run. The real issue though is that Yoshi gets way more out of winning neutral than we do so we can't really afford to make a mistake, though Yoshi does have trouble setting for a KO. In general, you have to play really lame/defensive/campy if you want to win, which makes it a really stupid, annoying MU to win.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Also, Rosalina, if you don't mind, though I've thouroly convinced my self doc is better at it.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Also, Rosalina, if you don't mind, though I've thouroly convinced my self doc is better at it.

We and Rosalina have a strange relationship. I wouldn't call it a bad matchup, but it is slightly in her favor (God forbid you play her with customs on). Mario doesn't have a hard time getting rid of Luma, his Fireballs can be rather disruptive, and you've got her outmaneuvered on the ground and in the air. I don't think Doc does any better than Mario does, either way it's still probably in her favor, but not by much. It could go either way, honestly.