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Make Your Move 27: Jamcon 3 reading period! Seras Victoria, Arum, Charon, The President, Yggdroid

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Australia
I was curious which character you’d pick to do next, and this choice does not disappoint. Never heard of this game unlike the Layton series (which makes sense, since it seems to be obscure-ish and has different titles between regions), but its anime designs and being on-par with Kid Icarus: Uprising in the writing department make me genuinely interested in checking it out on youtube. Big fan of interpreting a fashion stylist as a fighter who literally styles on their opponent with free-flow combos. It’s also wild that a fashion game is straight-up compared to the Devil May Cry series, but your pitch makes a ton of sense.

Sophia’s style mechanic feels a bit like something you’d see in an advanced MYM set. While there’s no specific timer on the window needed to combo attacks (maybe 120-30 frames depending on how high the style meter is, starting from when the foe exits hitstun?), I like the idea of your combo window getting shorter the more hits you get in. I do like the idea and visual of leaving silhouettes of the attacks you used in your combo (could get cluttered in a match with many Sophias, but who cares?), and I’m sure many people here have considered using the idea for… crazier moveset ideas (like time travel?). Not making moves combo into each other is a good idea too, though I’m not sure how the set would accomplish this other than through organic means like knockback angles.

  • Little tip with multi-hit Jabs: you can drop the attack before the final hit to keep foes in front of you and mix up into different options. This could help open into other moves, especially with a lower style meter where Sophia can afford a longer delay between hits, but it makes sense that not -every- move in Sophia’s moveset needs to be a combo tool. I like the final Jab’s application of being reversible so you could send opponents behind you instead of forward, and it humorously makes sense given the attack’s animation. I could see it being used if you want to position your opponent somewhere where it’s more convenient to continue a combo, like on platforms. For the final hit, perhaps you could give it low knockback scaling so it leaves opponents reasonably close to you: Sophia is fast enough that she would have little trouble closing the gap.
  • Dash Attack is very underdeveloped, as it only mentions the attack animation and being able to avoid low hitboxes. I’d suggest mentioning the move’s knockback strength, knockback angle and perhaps whether it’s safe against shields. Also far how Sophia travels during the attack, and maybe whether it has a good active window or whether it’s brief. The move’s notably high start-up and end lag and good damage seems to imply that it’s a power option among Sophia’s moves. Perhaps it’s a multi-hitting attack that drags foes and pops up on a high angle, making it useful for segueing into your air combos? Deals low knockback with little style meter, making it good for chasing foes and starting a combo, but gets stronger with a higher style meter and can be used to finish off opponents?
  • Good to see F-tilt get into some detail on its knockback angle. Knockback strength and angle are important to convey for anyone who wants to sell a combo character. Do the sweetspot and sourspots of the attack launch on the same angle? If the latter deals less knockback, I could see it being more useful as a combo tool.
  • I assume that D-tilt deals the same type of knockback no matter where it hits, perhaps on a high angle. It’s worth noting that the move is a slide kick, so it could give Sophia different combo outcomes depending on when she hits an opponent. If the attack deals high-angled knockback, then kicking an opponent near the end of Sophia’s slide would leave them roughly above her and in a great position to get air comboed. Meanwhile, hitting them earlier into your slide would leave them above and behind you and in a good position to get hit with a Back Air.

  • I’m guessing N-air deals diagonal knockback?
  • Not sure if F-air drags opponents down or not. If it does, it could be used to drag your opponent to ground level so you can follow up with a ground attack.
  • I like B-air producing unique sounds on-hit, due to using a microphone.
  • Might be a good idea to go into more detail on U-air - does it deal low or decent knockback? Can it juggle? (no comboing moves into themselves would say otherwise)
  • The ability to optionally cash in on your style meter to make D-Air stronger is neat, and I kind of wish Sophia could do this with most/all of her regular attacks. For her Standard attacks, you could simply have the player hold A instead of smashing the input.
  • Throws in Smash tend to be used for set-ups or starting combos, which would help to give them more flair.

  • Neutral Special is conceptually interesting, offering many different poses depending on how the move is inputted. The move doesn’t list any gameplay differences between the poses though, or a gameplay-based reason to use the move over Sophia’s non-Special attacks. Being a fast melee attack means that it risks being redundant with the non-Specials.
  • Side Special is a neat little movement attack that slots into Sophia’s combo game well. It can be used to crumple and start a follow-up, or smash the input to make it a kill. The move also has an established set of weaknesses, which is something all the moves before it could benefit from. Feels like the most developed melee attack in her set.
  • Down Special was foreshadowed in the style mechanic. I could see this being useful with Sophia’s Smashes and more committal attacks in general. Would be neat if there were some direct examples of when canceling is useful in specific moves.
  • I like the Final Smash taking direct inspiration from Faust.
  • Absolutely tracks that Sophia would have far more costumes than the average fighter.

Overall? I like the idea this set is going for, but you’ll need to add on a lot more details to the moves to really sell Sophia’s combo game. There’s a lot that could be added like knockback strength, KO percents, safety against shields, neutral usages, tech chasing, all stuff you can pick up by reading other sets. The set is around a similar quality to Professor Layton in spite of having a more compelling concept and listed frame data, but I ultimately preferred Layton because that set was a far more immersive experience. To be fair, Sophia has a lot less moveset potential. The whole idea of “choose-your-own-combos” type character ALA Sheik is also tricky to pull off, even for veteran setmakers, so you really had your work cut out for you here. It’s mostly a case of punching above your weight, but that’s certainly not to say you couldn’t improve on her if you expanded your knowledge - the ideas are good, they just need to be clarified.

Not going to lie, I was literally expecting a full-on April Fool’s joke set that was a clone of Yoshi’s moveset with the words “THERE YA GO SUNDANCE!” when I saw the character’s name, only to be surprised to hear that Boshi is actually the name of a real Mario character. For those who don’t know, The Sundance Kid was an old member of MYM who was frequently voted “Funniest MYM’er” around the MYM4-8 era, and there was some minor meme where one of the alt costumes of their set was a picture of Yoshi accompanied by the words “THERE YA GO SUNDANCE!”, named Boshi, the Zebra-Stripped. I have no idea why this was a thing, but I digress.

Leaving incredibly outdated MYM memes aside, Boshi is a very on-brand character for you. I forgot about this character when playing Super Mario RPG, so this may as well be my first exposure to him, but the idea of a Mario character who is known for stealing cookies is hilariously petty and brings the few Cookie Clicker (and Cookie Run) movesets we’ve had to mind.

Boshi is fittingly a semi-clone of Yoshi, which is cool to see since we got Blood Falcon this contest. In fact, I believe this is one of the few dedicated semi-clone movesets we’ve gotten in MYM! While Boshi’s moves are more derived from Yoshi than Blood Falcon’s, it makes them easy to understand and you get to talk about how fun Yoshi’s moves are. Egg Toss being a time bomb has “what if Yoshi’s Egg Toss was MYM’ified?” vibes to it, with a mix of Link’s Remote Bomb and Sephiroth’s Shadow Flare. It serves as a bit of a centrepiece to Boshi’s game, which is complimented by his version of Egg Lay. Yoshi’s infamously bad Egg Roll is eschewed for a different Side Special, and I have to give this one props for incorporating the rhythm-based nature of the Boshi’s minigame.

Down Special also offers Boshi one of a few buffs to play with, though they are chosen at random and it’s a bit committal to set up. My favourite of these buffs is probably the Chocolate, as I like passive landing hitboxes and their potential to be used for combos. The N64 cookie is also a humorous nod to the exaggerated hitstun of Smash 64 - it does seem strong at first glance, but it’s locked behind RNG and smartly doesn’t affect your Smashes. With how much the N64 cookie is brought up in the attacks, I wonder if it would be worth making Down Special a charge-and-store rather than RNG-based? I also wonder if only Down Special (if tapped?) should be used to spit out your breath-based attacks, so you can keep Neutral Special for its general uses and Egg Toss hard interaction.

While I do like this set, I’m admittedly more of a fan of Fang, Miraidon and Hinyari. Their ideas and even melee felt more creative, whereas I think Boshi’s hot potato egg and hitstun extension didn’t have the same level of appeal as base concepts. I don’t mind that Boshi has a lot of moves that are similar to (N64) Yoshi, but it would have been neat if the set drew a bit more on the advanced and competitive aspects of Yoshi’s Smash moveset.
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
137
SOPHIA (Potted Plant)

Sophia immediately hits the reader with a very interesting mechanic in the form of a “Style Counter”. By hitting the foe with her attacks, she gains access to points that she can expend on either certain attacks to buff their normally low kill power or on DSpec to cancel the endlag of her attacks for flashy combos. As mentioned in the description for DSpec, linking the mechanic for enabling combos into a resource gained through combos recreates the gameplay loop of Style Savvy very well, and the mechanic as stated earlier is quite cool. On the subject of combos, interpreting a fashion simulator into Devil May Cry-style gameplay is absolutely insane but strangely fitting, considering the fact that they’re both focused around style and immense amounts of player expression. I also like the aesthetic behind Sophia’s attacks, which are based on fashion tools, since in general I like characters like Mr. Game & Watch who pull out different props for every move (within reason, of course).

The actual moveset has proper frame data and damage percents for most attacks except the grabs and throws (and the buffed versions of certain attacks), so mechanically it is already an improvement on Layton. Said attacks are fairly interesting conceptually, such as noting that automatic combos technically count as multiple moves for the Style Counter and a Jab with an alternate hit that hits the foe behind Sophia. Nevertheless, they still don’t have that much going for them in terms of applications (though they are there!), with some moves such as Dash Attack not having any listed (though I can assume based on its damage and relatively slow frame data that it's one of her kill moves). I particularly take issue with the fact that the throws are essentially glossed over, not even having a dedicated link to them in the outline. Grabs are often a major defensive option and an integral part of the big triangle of most fighting games (block beats attack, grab beats block, attack beats grab), with throws in Smash often being consistent kill options or being one of a character’s best combo starter, so just having the animations described leaves a notable hole in how Sophia plays as a character.

Overall, Sophia is a major improvement on Layton for an incredibly neat central playstyle and greater emphasis on move usage, that ultimately gets let down by the set not truly exploring the mechanic in depth. The mechanic is definitely something to note, though, so that a more experienced set maker can do more with it.

BOSHI (Hypah)

Boshi, as you’d probably expect, is a semi-clone of Yoshi, but diverges from his counterpart in several ways. For one, his USpec works considerably differently, being a time bomb that he can knock around with his attacks. Boshi also has two totally different Specials; his SSpec is a command dash that he can gain a burst of movement towards if he times button presses properly, while his DSpec has him eat a random cookie that gives him various buffs generally based on abilities Yoshi has that aren’t in his Smash moveset. On that note, most of Boshi’s cloned moves are based on Yoshi’s Smash 64 incarnation with adjustments made accordingly, such as USmash having superarmor and not intangibility.

The overall result is a version of Yoshi that is fittingly much more of a bully, using the superarmor on his attacks to burst through attacks and break assaults. Particular DSpec buffs I like include the chocolate that gives Boshi an automatic landing hitbox, a Boshi face that gives him bat wings and gives him limited free flight, and a N64 cookie that gives his normals extra hitstun for that authentic Smash 64 feel. He also has 100% unique moves that I like, including a tongue lash FSmash that can gain buffs based on which snack he eats and a DThrow that has very high kill power, but can be teched to avoid the hit that does said damage. The main thing holding Boshi back is the lack of elaboration of how his kit intersects with his eggs or DSpec buffs, especially with the wings; the free flight is a very powerful effect, but it only has a few mentions in the aerials section. It’s also a sticking point for me that the exact chance of said DSpec buffs isn’t stated, especially as a few of them (the wings and the hitstun modifier) are significantly more powerful than others.

Regardless, Boshi was still a fun way to take on the idea of a “Wa-Yoshi”, and showcases the potential of making deliberate semi-clones.

Link to full comment repository here!
 

GolisoPower

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
4,371
I Will Make This Space Probe My New Baby Brother
Voyager by Katapultar Katapultar

That you managed to make this pure cinnamon roll of a Servant as he is in 3 days is absolutely nutso. I'm going to keep this pretty short because there's a lot to unpack here, but I really enjoyed how he basically has different sets based on whether he's on the ground or in the air. Gives him a pretty fun level of versatility and aerial dominance, especially when considering he's...well, a space probe gijinka. But aside from that, he comes pretty loaded with mechanics such as Crit Stars and buffing his movement speed with Swing-By here. Including this in the entire kit and giving us some strategies to go with all of these in this entire kit is already nuts, I'm starting to think you got a Neuralink to buff your setwriting because this is inhuman. Already he's a big contender for a vote this JamCon. If I didn't have to read the other sets I'd vote this out the gate, damn. Absolute P R O P S to you, Kat, you COOKED.

In The Hall Of The Mountain King
Asgore Dreemurr by Arctic Tern Arctic Tern

Keeping up our streak of Undertale sets per contest, we have Asgore Dreemurr, the penultimate boss of the game at least in two of the routes of the game and arguably the most polite and reluctant "final boss" character you'd ever seen if going in blind. He seems to be very much a bait-and-punish character who forces foes into less-than-optimal situations with certain disjoints and projectiles in a majorly offensive manner, almost like in Undertale. He's got an NSpec that's a close-range hit combined with a projectile, so escape on the ground is pretty much not an option without risking getting damaged by an aerial pursuit, and alternatively covering his approach game towards the foe if he wants to end this quickly. Now Side Special is pretty much a fun stonewall move that rewards players for correctly predicting whether or not the foe moves, as both variants deal damage based on their mobility. I especially love that you gave a better reward to Orange attacks so as to really get that good feeling when actually landing the move. The Down Special fire pillars are very much something I'll be using a lot, it's basically Palutena's Up Smash slapped onto a Shadow Sneak-style function and it rocks, both for blocking off approaches of all kinds and making edgeguarding practically easy. Up Special, a terrifying Power Dunk wax, almost sounds like pure dopamine, especially if he manages to hit the ground with it. DANG, I'd start strategizing just to land that consistently. A lot of the attacks really show Asgore's paradoxical combination of reluctance and resolve to fight, from his animations to him having longer start-up frames, kind of how he is in the original boss fight. The poor guy doesn't want to fight but he has to, and in a sense, I really like that. Learning about the lore and story of Undertale was a really interesting experience when I first discovered it, and I enjoy having sets like this that explain some of the story. Hope this comment fills you with DETERMINATION, Tern! Nice work!

[Insert Gurren Lagann Reference Here]
Venture by tunz tunz

From MYM's newly-crowned Queen of Overwatch is Venture, a character made not just in a short span of time as expected of a JamCon, but also in relatively short order after their reveal! Honestly, your understanding and skill in making these sets are getting better and better, even after Tamatoa, which is already a really fun JamCon set. Venture is very much turtle in playstyle, shaving off incoming damage after using specific Specials with an Overhealth mechanic and allowing them to survive for longer. The NSpec is pretty fun, being a front-facing hitbox that makes for some good defense for them and making for some good and easy damage and catching most mobility options pretty easily. Was not expecting a pile bunker-style Power Wave, but then here comes Venture doing just that for their Side Special, absolutely epic stuff there, especially when you can plummet and fake out your foe before you hit the ground. Absolutely vile stuff here, I love that. The Up Special is also some simple, yet fun stuff, being a rising multihit attack that can also be aimed. And lastly, I'm taking notes on a burrowing Special from their Down Special: I've had some ideas for a burrowing Special for a while now but the way you pull it off with Venture is pretty great, not only setting them up for an underground attack but also having exclusive tech to exploit as well. As somebody who dreams of writing a set with exploitable tech like this, I have to salute you. As somebody who hasn't been keeping up with Overwatch, the rest of the set is honestly really good, using unique projectiles and sharing different situations for if you're on the ground or in the air as well as what Specials to use. A lot of what you've done in the Specials I feel kinda comes together decently in the set proper, and that's respectable. Wear the crown of "Queen of Overwatch" proudly, tunz, I think you did well with this one!

A Piece Of The Poke Celeste?
Dhelmise by BridgesWithTurtles BridgesWithTurtles

There once was a man who was on a PC,
Who crafted a set with the utmost speed,
A haunted anchor covered in kelp
Often caught by fledgling whelps!

Soon may the JamCon come,
To test our skills 'til our hands are numb!
Three days for one that fits the theme,
workin' hard 'til we've no steam!


(Ahem), crappy sea shanty aside, Dhelmise is a really fun PokeSet to read through! I really enjoy how you play with how its hurtboxes work, allowing it to mix up its biology to survive for longer and delay any knockback, ranging from being in mid-air to nullify knockback by being hit in the anchor to switching to the anchor in a quick hurry to avoid getting killed using Down Special. Speaking of, I like this odd "spacing-grappler" approach to Dhelmise, having far-reaching attacks and projectiles with Neutral Special and some "get over here" tactics with that and Side Special. Not to mention, I have to admit I love this take on Phantom Force too. I really can't stress enough how much I could tell you had fun working around this Pokemon, it's beautiful. I have to say otherwise, the set really takes you on a journey to tell you how you can make your foes disappear quicker than the crew of the Mary Celeste or deal more damage than the iceberg did to the Titanic. Hate that this comment was shorter than I'd hoped but I accidentally refreshed while editing a comment in like an idiot and had to start from scratch again. But anyways, good on you, sailor!
 
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Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,291
Location
Hippo Island
Asgore by ArcticTern
I've only been back for 2 MYMs and I'm commenting on a character twice. I'm shocked it's not Geno or Waluigi.

I love the character detail of giving enemies a chance to recover over outright powerhouse KOs, even extending to his little hesitation when releasing FSmash. Also like seeing his implied hand-to-hand skills being utilized. DThrow in particular was a pleasant surprise, was not expecting a magical martial-arts hold. Using the Trident hurl from the fight's opening is a perfect DAir finisher. Part of me wishes he could performs several blue/orange attacks in a row, since the extra eye glints would add startup to keep it from becoming crazy oppressive, but I can see how that could quickly snowball with a Hot Hand fireball closing in.

Gameplay-wise, he reminds me a bit of Dormammu from MvC3, with his big homing fireballs and lingering ground fire. The fire buffs over time are an interesting addition, it means he gets to have crazy SHMUP-esque attacks like his boss fight eventually, but he still needs to make use of his trident and physicality to reach that point. It's also fitting for a character who might have an in-universe kill count to have a lvl-up mechanic ;)

FAir is a fun take on a string normal, with a mini dunk into a falling projectile, but I think the buff would be better as a projectile size increase. It would still make the two hits easier to combo while retaining the projectile's walling capability.

It took me until the grab to realize Asgore himself was naming the inputs.

That Final Smash is great, I'm scared to think what Ridley's or Sephiroth's SOUL would actually look like in that universe.

Xavier by dilliam
I remember coming across this show years ago and loving it. Thanks for unlocking some bizarrely fond memories.

If there was ever a character for RNG statuses, it's this guy. Neutral Special strikes a good balance of wackiness while still being readable in gameplay. Effect 3 in particular is something I wouldn't be surprised to learn happened in the show at some point. After the jamcon concludes, I would love to see if we can get this to 8 possible effects, so a full 8-player Xavier match can just...that.

Shaksuri does a great job of complimenting the NSpecial stuff, by inflicting simple statuses that get crazier by virtue of being stacked. Then Down Special is in the "middle" ground, a single somewhat complex status on a dedicated input. It's a cool take on recoil damage, but I will point out a funny typo: It mentions the effect being lost if Xavier deals knockback that would KO Mario ">" 130%. I assume you meant under? Otherwise his jab and throws are cleansing the status but his actual KO moves aren't.

I remember the moment of Up Special's GIF but not the part where he meets his past self. Love how he can strategically knock himself around, I almost want him to lose a stock if he KOs himself, though that would obviously be way underpowered.

After the insanity of the specials, I appreciate his normals focusing on fun animations with simple gameplay effects. With that said, I wish Eversplosion lasted longer to really make it feel like a summon. Oh God, what if Knull takes it out, does it become an Eversplosymbiote? Did we just discover the final boss of MYM27?

Happy to see my AT suggestion in the neutral special. Perhaps after the jamcon is over, we could get an AT or two from the show, like that metal gangster (who accepts Jesus when he's KO'd, awarding no points)


Update 4/30
Relicanth by Kholdstare
Pokemon is interesting in how it's the most recognized IP ever, yet the sheer number of critters means that a lot of them are still effectively niche deep cuts to make fanart for.

I really like how the physics and attacks play off each other. On the ground it lazes about and methodically roots around the seafloor, reflected in more exotic attacks. Then in the air it becomes more active and just swats anything that gets in its way.

That's an interesting take on Sturdy. At first I wasn't sure how relevant it would be since it won't really survive the "spike" after converting the knockback, but that's the point, it's to prevent some insta-gib on a fresh stock like how sturdy prevents OHKOs. There is a bit more utility onstage since this would stop stage-bounce combos, and that might be a good sweetspot to leave it at. Unless you want to make it armored against homerun swings and Judgment 9, that would be funny.

Dive is fun with how it can be used to force on-stage swimming, and the bio-luminescence during Ancient Power is a nice detail. I'm surprised there's no mention of it being usable in stage water, though that's an easy thing to leave out under jamcon time constraints.

Love the smashes and their fossil mechanics. Visually it's just plain fun having Relicanth kicking up silt and releasing vent bubbles, and then you sometimes get some unique held items. The only problem I have is, I'm not sure how Helix works. The ways it's worded suggests that someone gets hit then shields afterwards, but I'm guessing you meant for it to work like auto-block in some fighting games?

The general lethargy theme of some attacks is a cute touch. I looked up to see how relevant that was and was pleasantly surprised to see that, yes, Yawn and Rest are in its natural learnset. Great job, you got me to care about the lore for this fella!

Update 5/1
Dodongo
by FrozenRoy
I remember original Dodongo. This fun nostalgic throwback. Dodongo make good use of limited wording. Big heavyweight smash things, I like that. Suction unique effect before big scary fire breath. Only dislike is Up Throw. Should be Throw Up!

Update 5/22
The President
by Slavic
So when I heard this was a thing, I took a peek at it just to get an idea of how you would pull it off...then ended up reading most of it in a single sitting. Really gotta commend the writing here, it was all good fun, and there was no input where I felt like it dragged on with meta analysis or overdone mechanics. Bravo.

Just using purples is a cute effective way to differentiate him from Olimar. This is the heavyweight corporate Olimar, he treats all employees as if they were the same workhorse. It enables them to have their signature OP toss from Pikmin 2, and even plays into the animations with his rougher aerials (love the Pikwhip UAir).

I like the idea of his Purple Pikmin Posse being harder to replace, but I think they may be a bit too easy to lose. Especially since losing Pikmin is also costing him treasure, it feels like he could quickly get into a losing snowball against characters with big damaging buttons (such as, funny enough, himself). He could get away with a dedicated shield-special for plucking, considering the current emergency pluck is already slower than Olimar's.

Much credit for the tasteful ways to include treasure and sprays. The sprays are still actual attacks on their own, with the special perks as reward for better set-up. Likewise, there's no wacky carrying requirements or random upgrades with the treasure, they're just fun references that grant him a resource to spend on those sprays (and bombs). I'm curious, what would happen if he tries using Up-Special while a bitter blob is forming?

For some reason my first thought at the Final Smash was seeing Ridley being sad at having to plunder another world in the cosmos. If only he knew who originated from PNF-04
 
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Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Australia
Never imagined you as a Street Fighter guy (I thought the moveset was for Ed, Edd and Eddy based on the Smashboards post), but here we are, with another big Brazillian moveset much like Frank West.
While it’s not a part of the main set, I enjoy the Playstyle write-up’s trivia section of pointing out Ed’s SF inspiration, and some actual trivia behind boxing styles in real life. I’ve seen the Hajime no Ippo moveset myself, and I didn’t know about the four different styles of boxing in real life (Little Mac being a swarmer also makes perfect sense given how he plays in Smash). I also liked reading how much the Street Fighter series and boxing mean to you.

Neutral Special is an interesting little move that can be used to delete projectiles while answering with your own, or be used as a melee attack for some zoning. Both versions feed into the move’s ability to be charged to send out a bigger and stronger projectile. I like how the projectiles on this move can have their speed adjusted by inputting the control stick sideway. I don’t think Psycho Spark’s knockback strength or angle are specified in the move, only that it can be used to follow up into Psycho Shoot (or Psycho Cannon at full charge?) from close range. I wonder if there’s room to talk about what Psycho Spark can offer Ed if he ends a successful hit there?
Psycho Snatcher is a nice move, though I’m a bit unsure how exactly its inwards knockback works. “If he connects he will bring foes towards him by slamming them against the ground, making them bounce up allowing him to combo them.” The way this sentence is written makes me think that the knockback is diagonally downwards towards Ed (that would be pretty potent as an edgeguarding tool…). The fact that you can’t grab foes out of Snatcher, but they’re in a position where they can shield, implies that the move gives foes one second of grab immunity like you threw them, despite not being a grab. In any case, the synergy between Psycho Cannon and Psycho Snatcher (fire the projectile, yank opponents out of it and knock them back into the projectile) is pretty darn cool.
Minor thing, but I would probably give Side Special an extra 10 frames of end lag or so - 20 frames doesn’t seem super punishable, and the charged version does travel pretty far.
I don’t mind that damage and frame data are listed at the end of attacks, but I think it would be a good idea to knockback angles on moves, especially on a more melee-centric set like Ed. Psycho Splash only mentions it dealing a weak degree of downwards knockback in passing. It sounds like the move would deal diagonal downwards knockback, since Ed travels in that direction.
Down Special ties into Neutral and Side Special pretty cleverly, and it makes sense given the charging animation between all of them is the same.

“he is a bro boxer after all,” This looks like a typo… but it also looks hilariously intentional.
I think that Ed’s tapped Jab should have little to no knockback scaling, and serve as a way to consistently keep opponents in range for further pressure instead of being a kill move. Held Jab already serves as a kill move, and its start-up is a lot more justified for how powerful it is compared to tapped Jab. Held Jab comes out on frame 10 compared to tapped Jab’s frame 3, and they have a 30% kill difference between the two. They both have decently high end lag, though.
F-tilt feels like it would really benefit from having its knockback strength and angle clarified on, but otherwise it’s a good move - short-ranged melee attack that can be used to reliably cancel into your Specials on hit.

F-Smash is pretty neat when it’s charged, being cancelable into Down Special to prevent it from being too predictable. It can also be used as a cross-up tool and combo starter that can be used as a reversal tool if you find yourself cornered at the ledge.
U-Smash shares similar mechanics of changing when it’s fully-charged - I could see its mean downwards knockback being a killer way to intercept recovering opponents when you’re standing over the ledge, which would give you time to actually charge the move. Could even see it being used to intercept opponents who jump over Psycho Cannon, or even Psycho Shoot.
You know, I tend to forget that the Sakurai angle exists when writing movesets, but this set’s Forward Throw has convinced me that it’s a surprisingly scary thing to use against opponents at the ledge (since they’d get knocked forward and gravity will quickly take effect, causing them to fall downwards).

I think Ed’s throws work and don’t affect the set negatively, but I can see how you think you have room for improvement in writing throws. Up Throw is funny, but I think its “pop the foe up really high” doesn’t synergize with Ed’s moveset all -that- well aside from giving him time to charge his Neutral Special, since the start of his moveset stated that he’s more of a ground-based fighter. Ed could probably use his Down Throw for spacing (assuming it deals high base knockback, that’s not stated but I assume that’s the case since it’s a kill throw) while keeping U-throw is a simple overhead combo starter. Anyway, I’ll take a moment to give you some hints on how to write Grabs and throws:

A common grab application that’s brought up in sets is using the act of grabbing as a call-out against opponents who hold up their shield, say they were expecting you to throw out a move that’s unsafe on block. I like that Ed’s grab is short-ranged and is a bit of a weak point in his set, as it reinforces him having a bad OoS game and having a decent time against shields with his regular moves.
Pummels tend to be inconsequential: nobody is going to be bothered if you say “X kicks the opponent’s crotch for 1%” and call it a day. Bonus points if the animation is used to convey unique characterization or character trivia, just as you did here, or mention that pummels can be used to clear out stale moves.
A set can have the most simple set of throws possible and still have a compelling grab game. The key is to have the throws play off the rest of your moveset. This is largely why I (and many other people) list the grab game last, as readers already know the rest of the moveset. Heck, a good chunk of really strong sets have simple throws full stop.
Some basic applications for throws: one that’s good for comboing, one that’s good for spacing (but maybe doesn’t kill effectively), one that’s good for KO’ing and even one that leaves opponents prone or buries them, similar to Snake’s or K. Rool/Banjo and Kazooie’s D-throws respectively. If you have a good understanding of tech chasing or burying works (note Smash Ultimate’s knockback storage mechanic), then you can have a lot out of those two options, especially if you had some compelling non-throws to play off of.
Keep input placement in mind. If you have a Back Throw that’s good at killing like Ness or Incineroar’s, then you’ll want to note that your fighter’s grab game excels when they’re cornered at the ledge. Meanwhile, a fighter with an Up Throw that’s good at killing can take stocks effectively without relying on stage positioning, but they can use Battlefield platforms or the like to KO earlier.
Something as simple as the -length- of your throw’s start-up also has gameplay implications. If the throw resolves quickly, then your opponent will have less time to react. You can get fun with this by having a throw that launches on a low enough angle to force tech situations. Meanwhile, a throw with a long animation like Mario’s Back Throw is easier to react to, and even DI its knockback.
A fun trick people incorporate in their sets is DI mix-ups. Have one throw that punishes inwards DI, and another that punishes outwards DI. Could be something as simple as a Forward Throw and Back Throw that have quick animations and leave your opponent close to you, forcing them to guess which side you’re going to throw them towards.
Aside from everything I’ve mentioned, you can play around with throws in other fun ways, like Mewtwo’s Forward Throw chucking out projectiles. MYM also does a bit of time bomb throws, not unlike Sephiroth’s Shadow Flare except we were doing that long before he got into Smash Ultimate. You could also have a throw that plays directly off of your fighter’s mechanic. That kind of thing doesn’t really fit Ed, but for a character like Buzz Buzzard he could have a Down Throw that deals little damage and has no follow-up potential, but it steals a bunch of money from your opponent. Actually, he did that with his Neutral Special, but still.

Moving onto the Aerials, I like how N-air serves as a ranged attack that can be angled, and potentially a good anti-air or safe landing option if you have the space for it. Could be fun if the move had a sweetspot at close-range, perhaps deals knockback to keep your opponent away, while the rest of the hitbox deals little knockback and serves to keep them at mid-range for further pressure.
“On 1v1s (what I usually focus on when doing my movesets)” Great minds think alike.
It’s good that B-air acknowledges the difficulty of landing B-airs with FGCs in 1v1 matches, and so it’s a quick and simple move.
While U-air might not be the most practical landing option given its start-up, hitbox and lack of shield safety, I could see it maaaybe being a way to open up for your grab if foes attempt to block it?
This might sound weird, but I actually like Down Air being an intentionally undertuned and “bland” move. It delivers on the promise of Ed having a poor disadvantaged state and being a weak-ish aerial combatant. It’s the type of move that might not seem interesting in a vacuum, but it’s better when one factors in the moveset as a whole.

While Frank West and Buzz Buzzard were arguably crazier movesets, I think that Ed has a stronger melee game that ended up being consistently interesting. My main issue largely comes down to knockback not being clarified. This does make the set a bit less compelling than it could be, which is more notable on a fighting game set where in-depth Smash knowledge is extra essential. In any case, Ed has marginally beaten out Frank West as my favourite set of yours - I voted for the latter in the previous contest, and with the way this contest is going I’m more than confident Ed will be getting a vote as well.
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
137
ED (BrazilianGuy)

Ed, naturally, takes inspiration from Ryu/Ken in terms of how to interpret Street Fighter gameplay into a platform fighter setting, but diverges from them in multiple notable ways. He doesn’t have EX inputs to reflect how his inputs in his original appearance were very simple, but he can charge his Specials to achieve similar effects. The NSpec is a very interesting move, where the first hit is a melee attack that cancels projectiles that can be held to fire it as a projectile for Ed to approach behind, but when charged becomes a multi-hit projectile that he can use as a combo or kill setup tool. SSpec is also fun, being a standard neutral tool normally that becomes a combo starter, kill confirm tool, and movement option when charged. The last Special of note is DSpec, a combination of Ed’s SFV mechanics and one of his specials in 6 where he enters a state that enables him to use charged SSpec without charging if done for long enough but also gives him an intangible burst that he use to either escape pressure or attack.

The other attacks are fairly simple, but simple attacks are fitting for fighting game characters in general, and the grounded attacks are spiced up by Ed having tap/held versions of them. Standout moves include Jab for the ability to increase the kill power by pressing the A button just as it hits, FSmash for gaining burst movement properties when fully charged, and FAir for the long-ranged sweetspot that works well with the outboxer style that the set aims for. My main issue is that the listed frame data seems a bit off from what the text says; for example, DAir is said to be Ed’s slowest aerial, but its startup is said to be around 6 frames while UAir is said to have 12 frames of startup. There’s also missing information on landing lag for the aerials as well as Ed’s walk speed, which is important when it’s used as a base for the movement of his projectile. While the set can definitely need some tuning up on the numbers, Ed is overall a solid set that replicates the outboxer style quite well while at the same time not just being a 1 to 1 translation of his original kit.

CHAPAYEV (n88)

this is the second 30k set from this franchise you’ve done is there something wrong with you

Regardless of my amusement of the fact that every Azur Lane set thus far is massive, Chapayev does a lot to deserve said word count. Her kit largely centralizes around her NSpec, a laggy command grab that if connected leads into a tether. Aside from controlling the foe’s movement, Chappy can also use NSpec again while in this state to pull them towards her for either combo opportunities or canceling the endlag of her attacks, at the cost of the distance becoming shorter and the foe being able to more easily knock her far enough to break the tether. Her other “central” Specials are DSpec, a very interesting move that creates a shield that transitions into a powerful attack that gets stronger the more she hits the opponent, and USpec, a multistage move that has her board her rigging for boosted aerial mobility and altered versions of her aerial attacks. Chappy’s last Special isn’t really that central, but is still neat, a command charge her rigging that cycles between a simple charge and a much stronger, frighteningly fast variant with horrid endlag if she misses.

All of this adds up to Chapayev being a character centered around controlling the foe’s movements, fitting for her very “dommy mommy” vibe in canon. There’s also another subtheme of having to know when to approach, seeing as her dash has awkwardly long pivot frames and a laggy Dash Attack and she has landing lag if she lands during her abnormally high fast fall. It’s a nice way of getting across the character’s cavalier theming and the actual ship’s history, and they work into each other pretty well; Chappy’s stage control options give her more opportunities to approach and get her big hits in, especially as she struggles to actually land her high power kill moves. I also like how the set doesn’t really talk much about the chain canceling uses since they’re largely the same across it, only really being mentioned in particularly notable cases like the aforementioned SSpec.

Chapayev’s actual attacks besides the Specials get weird at times, but generally in a fun way. Her standards include a Jab that can reflect her delayed projectiles, a super strong but very laggy Dash Attack that powers up her DSpec, and a DTilt that works better against shorter characters (a nod to her in-game role of destroying destroyers) but works good in general for punishing prone foes and starting combos. The aerials include multiple two-hit attacks that either extend combos or serve as a rare non-committal kill move, with the UAir completely changing while on USpec to fire the aforementioned delayed projectiles. Chappy’s grab has a gimmick where every pummel buffs the throw she uses, with DThrow standing out with being a massive buff to the damage; normally fairly useless since the opponent is already highly damaged if she has the strongest stages of the buff, but much stronger when you consider that it can massively buff DSpec. Lastly, the smashes are fairly standard for the most part, with one being a big dumb hit and another being a sweeping roll coverage move, with the oddball being the DSmash, which is more of a buff to rigging attacks than a move in and of itself. While the placement is a bit off, seeming a bit more like a Special awkwardly tagged onto a smash, the actual effect is very interesting, firing multiple lasers once the rigging spawns that buff DSpec and add a bit more damage to the opponent when it’s out.

Overall, while Chapayev may not reach the heights of New Jersey, she’s still a solid set in her own right and a very interesting take on the classic tether mechanic.

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n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,535
For anyone who hasn't got jamcon comments in but would still like to - I'm holding the window open since we've got a few folks who haven't managed to finish reading yet (couldn't be me). No biggie though! I'm gonna try to close things out on the 27th to keep us moving forward.
 

Daehypeels

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
14
this was SUPPOSED to be part of the jamcon, hence the google doc title
then it just snowballed out of control, scope crept way too hard, and now we're here, weeks later
was it worth? idk, but was getting pretty sick of coming up with concepts I liked, only to trash them and never let them see the light of day
so perhaps, even if it's just this once, i'll let this guy limp past the finish line once more

blegh
who even is this guy, anyways
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
137
LORD CYBER (Dae)

Fitting for what was originally written as an entry for the Deep Jamcon, Lord Cyber is easily one of the deepest cuts we’ve had in this contest, and easily one of the deepest cut F-Zero characters to make a set for. Regardless, the set uses what little we know about him and his vehicle to form a character of a sophisticated chessmaster who plays his opponents right into his hands. Giving Cyber a rapier doesn’t have any canon basis, but it does fit his noble background and fits the character better than a barehanded fighting style would. In terms of actual gameplay, his primary mechanic, Sly Ploy, is based on a gimmick of his machine, where taking damage during certain attacks will have him take the damage while buffing said attack and give him a significant boost to his already good mobility. Additionally, if Cyber lands a combo certain attacks will gain a buff if they are landed before the combo drops, known as Dirty Ploy.

While Cyber has barely anything to work with on his own, the powers given to him here manage to provide a very intriguing hook for the rest of the moveset to work off of. His standards have several juke out moves fitting for a fencer, that help give him a layer of unpredictability while also adding a good bit of threat. Cyber’s smashes all benefit in some manner from his mechanics: FSmash gets the Sly Ploy buff as well as a flat power boost if done during Dirty Ploy, USmash becomes a more threatening anti-air than it already is due to increased startup, and DSmash enables him to move while charging so as to potentially cover almost every option in a tech chase. The aerials are where the set truly starts to pick up, with a NAir knee that works like Falcon’s with the difference being that the sourspot is generally preferable due to being a better combo starter and a slow, strong BAir that benefits from Sly Ploy. I particularly liked the fact that the Dirty Ploy buff for FAir is actually a downgrade due to preventing wall of pain scenarios that would otherwise happen thanks to the move’s knockback and Cyber’s speed, as well as NAir allowing him to land on platforms earlier than usual due to his extended leg and having very early autocancel frames.

Cyber’s Specials are positioned last, but they aren’t really needed to understand the rest of the set, so this is fine with me - and in any case, they’re cool. NSpec is a long ranged pseudo-dodge that can be transitioned into a long ranged, yet highly committal lunge forwards, while SSpec is a command leap that can be canceled into either his aerials or two unique, powerful attacks. USpec is a simple jump upwards that, under the right circumstances, can allow Cyber to land a very strong strike if he uses it just as he passes the foe, fitting for the set’s characterization of him and seeming really cool to actually pull off. Finally, DSpec is ordinarily a slow counter that also counters grabs and, if landed, leads into basically everything he has; in Dirty Ploy mode, it becomes a powerful pseudo-cinematic attack that he can also store so he can use it anytime he wants. Despite not being “central” to his kit, Cyber’s Specials all feed into a theme present throughout his set of his strongest moves requiring heavy commitment and reads in order to actually land, while also having poor defensive options when the opponent gets past his range and mixups.

This may have been one heck of a deep cut for a character choice, but Cyber definitely stands out as a would-be contender for my Jamcon nomination had he been finished in time. As it is now, he’s an excellent example of a personal favorite setmaking trope (using the set to invent characterization for characters with minimal personality in canon), and without bias I can safely say still a very well-crafted set.

NINJA (Kat)

We’ve had all sorts of Kat ninja girl sets, but here we have a character whose name is literally just “Ninja”. Truly, the archetypal Kat character.

Ninja is an extreme lightweight with immense mobility who pays the price with proportionally low weight. On the other hand, her movements also passively create afterimages that, if struck, halves the startup of her next attack and allows for nasty whiff punishes. Ninja’s other gimmick is her ability to duplicate herself up to three times; while this comes at the cost of a hefty amount of self-damage, it also allows her to attack during her endlag if she hits the foe and/or double down on her damage. They can also be desynced from her to set up for her smashes, which are all on the slow side and benefit from being used by clones; additionally, killing every clone is required to take a stock from her, meaning that she can be a lot harder to take out than her weight suggests when combined with her strong recovery. The result is Ninja playing a lot like the class does in Etrian Odyssey: someone who outlasts the opponent through sheer evasion while they set up clones in order to win.

You’d expect a basis like that to come with some interesting attacks, and you’d be right! Ninja’s held NSpec is a slow attack that has great power and no endlag once it actually comes out, that gets far stronger with clones. SSpec has her toss kunai that poison the foe on hit, preventing their shield from healing and making it easier for her to work around shields, otherwise a notable weakness of hers. USpec is, as alluded to earlier, a very strong recovery that also doubles as a potential kill confirm if Ninja can get the spacing right. Finally, DSpec is a fun little counter that teleports her to the opponent no matter where they are, which can also turn into a high damage move that gets stronger the more her evasion buff is triggered.

Ninja’s other attacks have a good bit of gimmicks to them as well, such as FTilt, which is weak as an actual attack but is very good as a cancel setup and can potentially cause the foe to sleep. Her smashes are good for capitalizing on or making openings, like FSmash being an evasive move that deals more damage if the opponent is sleeping or dizzy from if she manages a shield break and DSmash binding their shadow so that they can’t move for a while. The aerials section is comparatively more subdued, but they still add to the core of Ninja’s gameplay; UAir is a move with multiple hits that don’t combo into each other with the last one being very strong for her standards, while DAir is a dragdown stall then fall with a customizable fall speed that with clones can serve as a tech chase or combo setup. Lastly, her grab is fairly bad, but makes up for it with immense repositioning and kill confirm potential in the actual throws, with a BThrow that inflicts one of the statuses she can inflict and a standard but still nice proning DThrow. For all of the versatility in the kit, Ninja is still balanced by just how light she is as well as the fact that her strongest tool deals high self-damage, meaning that one good mistake can cost her the stock if she isn’t careful.

In short, Ninja is a highly intriguing take on the “hit-and-run” playstyle that takes it to extreme levels, but never in a way that feels truly unfair for either party. It’s something that I feel is fairly tricky to pull off, but it definitely pays off when it does.

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Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Australia
This set has quite a fun start by digging into tether mechanics, with a much longer tether than other sets of this kind. This leads to a compelling dynamic where foes have to go far below the stage if they want to break the tether without interacting with Chapayev, but it becomes easier if she’s higher in the air or they simply knock her away. You also have good control of the tethered foe’s positioning as you can casually yank them in, but each time you do you shorten your tether and it becomes easier to break. I wonder if the “cancel end lag of attacks into yank” should only apply on a successful hit, so it means that Chap doesn’t get a get-out-of-jail-free card if she hits a shield. On a lesser note, it’s interesting that this move’s inspiration is tied to… Chap’s character, as opposed to a skill she has in gameplay. The move’s high lag might be controversial, and it might be too high, but I appreciate the move being difficult to land for how much control it can potentially give Chap.

  • Casually flicking a projectile to reflect it feels like something a smug, overpowered character would do to flex their power, not unlike some of your big Marvel villains or an anime character. I like the idea of melee reflectors that can be combined with reflected projectiles for unique combos, but the weak hitbox and short-range of Chap’s flick strikes me as something that’s not feasible for her to use like that and not your focus here.
  • I can see why this moveset’s inputs are ordered the way they are, as the Standards that follow Neutral Special are largely tailored to be usable even with a shorter-ranged tether.
  • Dash Attack… hmmm… I initially wasn’t convinced by its raw slowness and general lack of KO power, but this changes later on.
  • I’m all for this set’s take on input ordering and slowly drip-feeding readers its hooks for a big reveal near the end, but the writing feels padded out at times, most notably on the Up Special. That aside, I kind of like this input’s ability to let Chap sail back and forth across the stage while using her Aerials or Specials, but she needs to descend to the ground over time and not fastfall. And the dynamic of a great recovery that leaves you with a worse one if it’s intercepted.
  • I like the dynamic of Chap’s N-air knocking frontal foes upwards and backwards ones down, especially when it makes sense for the attack’s animation.
  • Surprised to see something of a Bayonetta direction in Chap’s Side Aerials. I like the attention-to-detail in having to commit to these follow-ups and risk punishment if you hit a shield, and the logic behind controlling your opponent’s position for your tether does make sense.
  • It goes without saying that Chap’s mounted U-air caps off the Aerials in a fun way. Aside from making those awkward Aerials easier to land, bombing the stage below you with multi-projectiles that benefit from your air drift is compelling in itself. It’s also good to see some acknowledge that some of Chap’s moves are more suited to a non-tether state rather than when foes are tethered, as the tether is far from easy to land.

  • “Being short is, remember, a crime unto itself that deserves punishment.” This moveset has made it rather clear that, uhhhh, you hate short characters. That, or Chapayev hates short people, since this topic has never come up in previous n88 sets.
  • The dynamic of your chained Side Special having a blindspot that makes the move useless after 2 chain cancels is some neat design.

Grab goes for a classic “pummel foe to boost your throws”. On one hand, it does seem a little forced and doesn’t 100% make sense from the pummel’s animation (or communicate with players that the pummel affects your throws, but this doesn’t detract from the set for me). On the other hand, I like how B-throw delves into DI, and it makes sense that a throw that gets better knockback with pummels would be more effective at higher percents when foes take longer to escape. It also, at least, gives Chap another way to customize her knockback for tether purposes. Oh, and inspiring extra hard pummel mashing is hilariously in-character for someone who likes to confine people. I like U-throw for its ability to shortcut into your rigging mode.

Shield Special is a big move that ties into Chap’s hitherto established moves neatly. It effectively gives her an armour state that lets her face-tank weaker hits, more effective if she started out with more shards AKA waited longer before using it, but she has to forego shielding and dodging to keep it up. It makes landing those less feasible attacks more feasible, and the armour state is surprisingly well-designed: multi-hits can take more shards from Chap, but she is likely to tank such attacks since they’re weaker and punish attackers. Also ties into those weaker Standards and Dash Attack racking up multiple hits. And of course, there’s the pay-off of firing off all your shards and dealing potentially giant damage once 15 seconds are up, or you shield/dodge. It’s a great move that elevates the set.

  • F-Smash slots very nicely into Chap’s kit as a tech chase tool that you can use a chain cancel to bail out of on block, or rack up an increasing amount of hits for your Shield Special, but both of these are held back by the move’s slow and committal nature.
  • U-Smash doesn’t feel quite as compelling as a Smash or play off of Chap’s kit in big ways, which I only say because F-Smash made a good impression and I guess high expectations, but it’s a perfectly serviceable attack.
  • D-Smash’s high start-up and “rigging bites you” aesthetic feels oddly familiar, and I know you have read Freidrich. Or maybe I’m misremembering? Even went to keep at the design notes of this move, and didn’t see any mention of Freidrich. The move also continues the trend of Chapavey being a shortie-hater. It does seem a bit low on reward for how much lag it has, even with the ice shard collection potential and its speedy charge hold > hitbox transition.
  • Down Special does have its uses in the set, but it admittedly feels weak for a Special and doesn’t add much that Chapayev couldn’t accomplish with her other moves. To be fair, this was previously on a different input and you had to do some input shifting to address Tern’s comment, plus you could say the Shield Special is effectively Chap’s real Down Special, but still. I’ll admit I thought this was going to be a giant murder attack, based on the promise of Shield Special stating that Chap has big hard-reads and kills that aren’t her Shield Special (and the fact that none of her Smashes have big heavyweight KO power).

Chapayev’s funny, awkward kit ended up being very well-executed, proving to be a very strong and fulfilling moveset with some creative approaches. She would be close, if not on par with New Jersey for these reasons, but the Down Special is a bit of a sore point for me. It might not hold others back, but I feel that all of a moveset’s Specials need to add something of noteworthy contribution to the playstyle to qualify as frontrunner/9.5-10 star tier. Gives the set more of a “complete package” feel, if you know what I mean? In any case, still a top-notch set and one of my favourites so far.

  • Alright, now that you’ve tackled two race car pilots in a row, I’m going to associate you with those kinds of characters now.
  • It’s impressive that you’ve made a moveset for such an obscure character with little to go off of. Or rather, making a moveset based on the stats of his in-game vehicle. Futuristic beam rapier for this futuristic nobleman guy makes sense.
  • The writing and grammar of this set is a lot more loose and less refined than usual, but it makes sense that you’d want to churn it quickly since this set was intended for a Jamcon. It’s a good thing sets aren’t judged on grammar, only the ideas they convey.
  • Going off of the stats and playstyle section alone, I’m always impressed by how much you get out of such fundamental aspects of Smash. It’s clear that Cyber Lord is all about dodging and punishing attacks, which is further rewarded with his Sly Ploy and Dirty Ploy mechanics. Really adds a sense of cunning characterization to an otherwise undeveloped character.

  • Jab packs the good old mix-up on hit 2, from the same cloth as Blood Falcon. The hold variant is an unconventional step back with no hitbox, but it’s naturally good for juking out opponents who thought you were just going to launch them. I like how intuitive it is that you can simply hold A to perform both Jab 1 and 2b in one go and have them be treated as one input.
  • Couple Jab move with F-tilt to serve Lord Cyber his big neutral mix-up game for keeping enemies on their toes and forcing them to commit. It’s surprising that we’ve gotten 2 sets in a row with regular attacks that have optional follow-ups, but the speed of which these occur have both sets place an emphasis on players needing to commit to using the follow-up and not having time to register whether their opponent shielded them or not. It’s certainly been ingrained into my head after this set.
  • U-tilt is a refreshingly simple but neat option for catching out opponents who take to the air to escape your grounded pressure from the first two moves of this set.
  • D-tilt adds an extra layer to Cyber’s neutral oppression, in a call-out to punish opponents to opponents who do close in and attack once they’ve gotten past your range. I like that the SP armour isn’t immediate and so you need to set it up preemptively. It even has some surprising synergy with your U-tilt and catching landings thanks to the wide range of the held slash.

  • U-Smash does feel similar to U-tilt in many ways (reminds me of v-tan in some ways), minus the obvious addition of a scooping hitbox to make it more feasible against grounded opponents. I don’t mind this degree of redundancy too much, as it makes Lord Cyber’s overhead grounded attacks feel more specialized. It being an unreliable OoS option also makes sense when Cyber’s evasion and disjoint mix-ups already give him a good defense.
  • Dash Attack is the “move back and strike forward” pseudo-dodge option I was expecting.

  • I enjoy N-air going into depth on how the move’s hitbox placement relative to Cyber’s height and his landing lag interacts with landing on enemies. A funny little move with speedy and landing safety instead of Cyber’s usual poking sword-based attacks. Then there’s his hurtbox-shifting trick that lets him quickly land on a platform he jumps through, thanks to his low jump height.
  • B-air being a powerful super armour/kill move that can be angled, but can’t be used alongside your N-air and F-air for obvious reasons, is fun and means that Cyber has to commit to one type of aerial play in many aerial situations.
  • I like that your F-air and D-air are good reliable sword swings, but they are hampered by not covering as wide of an arc as typical swordie attacks in Smash, giving them blindspots that Lord Cyber needs to take into consideration.
  • Not sure if unique DI modifiers are a thing in Smash, but I like it here in D-air’s DP, and it would be fun to play around with in a moveset. I like how opponents being able to pick whether they go flying sideways or downwards from a DP can be match-up dependent depending on the nature of their recovery. Also nice synergy with held D-tilt at the ledge.
  • “-(do you care about the numbers? Unironically, if you do, let me know and I’ll add them… but for now, eh)” If you’re talking about kill percents on F-throw, then nah, you don’t have to mention them if it’s not intended to kill at reasonable percents. Some sets don’t list kill percents or even frame data, and that doesn’t hold them back.
  • Cyber’s throws are pretty basic and short on descriptions compared to the rest of his fleshed-out melee, but it’s okay for him to have a weak set of throws to balance out his strong neutral game and spacing. I would say “mix-ups and DI”, but I think not including them on an intentionally weak grab game is a good idea when Cyber has a lot of it in his ground game. In any case, I like this line on U-throw: “snags the opponent by the leg and tosses them up like the little clown child they are”.

NSpec is a bit of a more extreme version of your Dash Attack, with the option to simply do a retreat or throw out a very strong attack that’s punishable on miss. Then Cyber has his Side Special as an approach option that compensates for his weak jumps, with the benefit of extra options and a powerful shield-checker he can throw from it (or fling himself facing backwards for B-air or B-reverse NSpec momentum set-ups), but higher end lag from his options means it is inherently riskier compared to just approaching normally. Up Special’s held version has a unique attack where you have to time your attack to hit an opponent you crossed up with a slow and defenseless movement option, which is neat. Also bold of Cyber to have a counter that ignores grabs, but its worse frame data than others of its kind means this benefit is more than justified. Being a different attack under DP is unique too, one that can be stored so you have a non-counter attack to work with - or even combo out of your counter if DP lines up well… but the stored version is stronger in exchange for not having that combo luxury. Probably the coolest Special in Cyber’s kit.

While you weren’t confident in Lord Cyber, he nonetheless turned out to be a very solid set. I do prefer Blood Falcon by a relative margin, as his set and Specials felt more flashy and possessing of consistently stronger inputs compared to Cyber - Smashes and Grab game felt like the “weaker” parts of the set as far as interesting moves go, but the inputs have their place. Nonetheless, Cyber still pulled through with a well-defined melee and descriptions of many of his individual moves, which was the main appeal to me compared to Dirty Ploy and Sly Ploy (still very good and welcome mechanics, mind you).
 
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BrazilianGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
45
Adventurer, Hedgehog, and Bat comments

Let's get this comment cracking. It's the guy from FOrtnite! I've only seen the first Indy movie when I was way younger and played some levels of the Lego Wii game at a friends house, but I'd say that thanks to cultural osmosis I have a pretty good picture of who Indiana is, and what he does, his movies are definitely gonna be added to my watchlist tho. I'mma be starting with the negatives of this moveset, mainly the lack of extras, this may be a big me thing, but I do think extras like taunts and alts add to a character's moveset and their representation in Smash, I bring that up in quite a few comments but it is how I view it, and Jones in specific being a character with such a big legacy could have had some nice stuff in his extras, you do mention half of his alts are inspired on Old Indy so that's at least something but still, also his theme song being used on the victory screen is a pretty obvious thing that I felt was missing. With that all out of the way, I loved this set a ton. Indiana Jones as a hit-and-run character just fits so well for what I know of the character, moves like his Neutral Special gun, his dash attack that can interact with it in a really fun way, his Whip Smash Attacks and even his jab to show he is not that much of a fighter. I also think that the relics he can dig up are hella fun and rewarding for how much he has to in order to obtain them, even if the chalice sounds a bit overtuned but healing in Smash is quite tricky to nail down. Also gotta say that I love your writing style, it made it entertaining to read from beginning to end, and even as someone who isn't too knowledgeable about Indy and his adventures, I could still dig a lot of it, especially liked the part about the Dial of Destiny movie lol. Also the Indiana Jones font used and the final smash are perfect, no notes. I really loved Indiana Jones, he sounds hella fun to play and I actually feel like I wanna watch his movies, superb stuff. Fedora/10


Why it's Amy Rose of course! That was the only thing I could think of while reading this moveset, I associate that quote from that stupid top 10 sonic women video with Amy anytime I see her, it's stronger than me at this point. But anywho, Amy's pretty cool. To start with, I wanna say I really adore the way you organize your moveset, the aesthetics are great and fit Amy perfectly, up to this point the only other Set I've seen from you was Dhelmise who also had amazing style. And the way you incorporate gifs and images is also really great, feels like there is a good balance of visuals and descriptions. I will say I did expect her to maybe be a bit faster, and at least one ball move but you give good reasons as to why she is how she is and that's good. Also while I know a bit of Sonic stuff, seeing things from the GBA (I think it's the GBA games) as well as Fighters was pretty neat, I like how much from Amy's honestly pretty huge resumeé you pull from. Amy's Specials all have some very nice references and uses like a unique take on a counter, a very diverse side special (I really loved how much the tornado acts to her kit), and terrorism! I do think the coolest move on her kit is Dash Attack, is very rare for that input to really have anything going for it beyond the basics, so seeing it have a lot of depth with the grab input, it going off stage, and it strong-mid-weak uses were also really unique, and it also just fits with Amy. I also appreciate the little things like the Classic Mode, the special pummel, and the entrance animation that interact with Sonic, wish Smash itself had more things like that. All in all, I do think I prefer Dhelmise a bit more, but Amy was awesome, am excited to read your other sets! She gets an WhyItsAmyRoseOfCourse/10


Fun choice for a Pokémon, Golbat is one of the more well-known mons (being in the OG 151 helps that) and is nice to see a moveset for it. One thing I already liked with Relicanth is the style of your movesets, they look really good, I really loved words being meant to resemble Golbat, that's super fun and cute, the BG is also cool. To get my biggest complaint out of the bat (get it), I think Golbat should have something detailing his movement, he has a super weird and unusual shape, as well as being a flying mon, so would his neutral stance be on the ground or flapping his wings? Also I imagined he'd have multiple jumps but it's never really specified how many he has, just think that could maybe still be added. And you do make a nice case explaining that Confusion and Poison mechanics aren't too fun to play against, but it feels weird that Golbat has no poison moves, he does have a ton of bites, maybe Forward Smash could be poison bite as a way to differentiate it further, tho the way you use the animations as a way to make em distinct also works. I think Side Special is a hella unique move, love the way you implement the confusion by confusing the player itself, and also explaining how it would affect CPUS, nice touch. The Blood mechanic also sounds fun, caught me a little off guard since Pokémon is usually so PG, so having a Blood Burst wasn't something I expected, but it's fun and unique. I also like how you explain the main use of it, dealing multiple bites to get a lead, survive at high percents with the blood, and then spend it for a second stock, super cool stuff. I also liked your concept for Kanto Victory Road, honestly would like it more than Saffron City. Lastly, while I like the bites and get why they are there, maybe name the moves something else instead of Bite 6, tho that's just me. Golbat is simple but has a cool mechanic and some cool moves, gets a BloodSucker/10

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UserShadow7989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
308
Dodongo by FrozenRoy FrozenRoy

A simple heavyweight set with a focus on function. Despite being purposefully short for the joke, the set has a clear playstyle and even a fun interaction between specials where eating the for renews the fire breathing special to its full strength. And that's... honestly the bulk of what I came away with from Dodongo? It's a neat little experiment piece on how little is too little, with an interesting body type that's lampshaded a couple times, and it did make me laugh a bit, so I'm happy it exists. It just means that like the set itself, this comment is a tad sparse.


Xavier by dilliam dilliam

A hilariously fun mash of chaotic and rng elements with a grounded but underpowered all-arounder set underneath the goofy animations that relies on capitalizing on its weird effects for results. It's disjointed, but that's kind of the point.

One tweak I feel could be made for the sake of making it more mechanically cohesive while still being as bat-crap crazy is to have his time rewind self be able to use non-Up Special Specials and get the same results as the first time around for all inputs with random effects; we're already going nuts, and this would let him have a predictable flavor of utter chaos on call- with the ability to bop his past-future self to prevent him from scrambling things further if he's in a good spot.


Relicanth by Kholdstare Kholdstare

Love, love, love the presentation- yeah, both versions of the doc. Relicanth digs surprisingly Deep for material for the Pokemon and it works out for a fairly fun set all told. I love Dive and how Relicanth can use its Specials and Up Smash out of the state, as well as its interaction with Dash Attack and Up Throw. It and the Fossils act as a fascinating pair of through lines for the set. This has kind of made me want to revisit a set idea I had that I never got around to, which also had a dive ability to it...

Getting into some nitpicks, how does one shield while holding the armor fossil or grab with the jaw fossil? I assume you just can like with the dome fossil.

Down Tilt is a bizarre placement for that sort of move even if it doesn't have many other places to go given the set, feeling a bit like crazy for crazy's sake- aside from the fossil interaction which is pretty dang cool and the dive interaction (which feels logical enough). It does leave Relicanth without a low-hitting melee hitbox beyond jab so that's a thing, but could be used as an interesting intentional hole in the playstyle. Also admittedly Ganondorf's Up Tilt exists so I shouldn't complain too much, just mentioning that this brought me back a bit to some of classic MYM's insanity.

Shifting to a different complaint, the set started to feel bare in the Aerials, which is understandable given what you had to work with and the time limit, but I feel Down Aerial at least could work with Dive- Relicanth shooting out from the bottom of the Dive area (not the biggest stretch to how it works), or go right into Dive if landing with it buffered.


Antonio by GolisoPower GolisoPower

I love how the treasures and upgrades work, making the set feel surprisingly flexible and in-depth. The Simon Belmont inspiration obvious in the character himself carries over to the set, but like that inspiration is only the base for something that builds based on a little luck and a little forward thinking. I'm a fan, I won't lie. It feels like a crazy ambitious upgrade set without the usual bloat that is a common consequence of that.

The individual inputs aren't individually crazy, but there's plenty of fun small details in how they all work like Forward Smash's projectiles acting to intercept opposing projectiles, Up Special working to help him recover by pushing him with its projectiles, etc. The qualities of the treasure you can get have their synergy highlighted nicely with each input, to say nothing of the evolved inputs you have for having the treasure associated with the relevant input. Each stock plays slightly differently but with a familiar grounded base to keep a needed consistency, and while usage shifts slightly, you're never in a position where you're suddenly missing an important tool because you picked the wrong shiny button- something new players would no doubt appreciate.

It's also just impressive that the set essentially has double (1.5x maybe given they're all building off of the un-upgraded versions?) the inputs and that they all feel like they're fitting additions.

Nitpick: sentence fragment in evolved down tilt: "So using Evolved D-air to spike people into this patch of fire later in its lifespan if timed right."


Hades by WeirdChillFever WeirdChillFever

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one. Hades's playstyle marries some conflicting options where he has a few ways to deal with his heavyweight typical weaknesses, but he must ration out how he uses his meter or lose a lot of his safety for higher reward but far more dangerous options.

The characterization is on point and makes for a very fun to imagine set, the dance-like aerials standing out in flavor even with the glitzy and villainous specials and forceful grounded moves. Persephone pitches in best up above, away from Hades' set-up and ground-bound kingdom.

The constructs are flashy but easy to understand, having a strong presence in play without being some mind-bending bit of craziness that warps the match around them. As a sucker for a good construct, these serve their purpose well without being as big an interference as they'd feel like to play around, giving Hades the feel of a controlling force when you choose to indulge in that side of his playstyle.

None of the set feels like it's extraneous or too painful to go without if you choose to appeal to or disregard Persephone, which is a rough balance to strike in this sort of set. Hades' fuel-related toys are all potent and can give him a sudden edge where needed, but can snowball negatively for him as it drives a wedge between himself and his partner, making it more tempting to indulge and double down as Doubt Comes In about how secure your advantage state really is...

I've enjoyed all the sets from this Jamcon, but I will say that Hades stood out as one of the strongest for its combination of flavor and mechanics. It felt like a good balance of complexity and simplicity, making the best use of the source material and being plenty crazy with how some of it works but not enough to break the feel it goes for by being silly, and keeps a dark tone and a nice flair in presentation that made it a joy to read through even with the looming deadline for Jamcon comments starting to bring close. It gave me the little boost needed to sit down and read the rest, so thank you for that.


Dhelmise by BridgesWithTurtles BridgesWithTurtles

Hot dang, this is a good one. I'm always a fan of sets that involve decoupling your hitboxes from your hurtbox, and Dhelmise's Steelworker is a fantastic implementation of this effect, making good use of the Pokemon's biology and habits for a fascinating trick in combination with how it can utilize having its helm and anchor it has grown around in two separate places.

The Specials are a solid core that build on the positioning and movement effects this presents, switching control between each end and teleporting one to the other, or just drawing foes in to help with your advantageous microspacing. Every move in this set feels like it both stands on its own merits and functions as another piece to a greater whole. The inputs all have their own way of interacting with the mechanic, with a few intentional exceptions that pointedly work the same regardless to ensure you're never totally out of options.

Beyond the mechanic, Dhelmise is a heavyweight who hits like a truck (or an anchor more accurately) but has to deal with oddball coverage or poor frame data on top of being combo food that's also easy to KO. It can make these issues better or worse depending on how said mechanic is used, with some high risk high reward big brain time plays it can indulge in as deeply or consistently as the hypothetical player likes- at their own peril. Sometimes it's just fun to have a set that tells the player to go big or go home, and there's that aspect there in with all the rest. The love this set gets is well-deserved.


Venture by tunz tunz

Adventurer archeologist might be a favorite character archetype of mine, so Venture already has made a good impression on me as a character even without more of their lore available. There's also something just kind of funny about an archeologist wielding a drill being partly reliant on air combos, but it makes sense in the context of their set, and makes for a feeling if "unearthing" something if that makes sense.

The set has a solid grasp of fundamentals and makes some fun use of their skill set, from shockwaves to large chunks of rock shooting up (presumably for a snack later) from drilling the ground, making for a set that is a simple read but has plenty of info to ensure a clear picture of how they play. Their Specials are all rather interesting to me, even Neutral Special as a simple but consistently useful move to use into or out of their other inputs, with burrowing underground and popping back up elsewhere being a fun one in particular (which with Relicanth in the same batch brings to mind the two nickles meme, even if they handle it vastly different from the living relic).


Asgore by Arctic Tern Arctic Tern

Undertale's presence in MYM has been a surprisingly slow trickle, a set here or a set there every other contest or so. Good to see the big guy get his own at long last, as one of the main names of the game's plot! Asgore's characterization shines through here, from his slower initial dash to the way you need to use his fire moves repeatedly to buff them to full strength, it conveys a fighter who is reluctant to go all out until he builds himself up to it.

The set itself has standard heavyweight base but mingles good fundamentals and a few interesting tricks with the fire increases, each move having its own quirks to make trying to level up mid-exchange difficult (with the biggest reward going to his throws, which you are giving up his sure thing pay off of his other good to start throws for possible pay off later if he can keep landing his sluggish grab and naturally can't be cheated by spamming when a foe is launched away).

Once he gets going, he's every bit as powerful as his stats in game would imply, forcing opponents to come to him and fight whether they want to get in close or would normally prefer to fight at range- no mercy command or act -> talking your way out of things. It's not a hyper complex set or a brain-bending twist or even a remarkable new take on an old favorite, but it is a solidly executed set that is a good read all the way through that presents its concepts well, and I want to acknowledge in particular how perfectly the set handles Asgore as a character. Nicely done.


Voyager by Katapultar Katapultar

Reading these in reverse order was a Choice alright. Ah well, worked out pretty well in the end. Voyager is a beefy set for an adorably tiny character, with several mechanics tied together that make for a focus on high execution usage of his crazy maneuverability, with his aerials all having quirks that are best used at differing speeds, and his mechanics and stats giving him potentially amazing max speed if he has time to accelerate that can be a double-edged sword.

Despite the size of the set, it manages to be a breezy read with each input (some specials excluded) being short but sweet, introducing simple small gimmicks or quirks that play well off of his mechanics and stats without getting too complicated, usually bolstering or directly toying with his movement options. Air Side Special is an input I love and it plays very well with his ability to zip around in the air or just keep himself anchored as needed, but all of the aerial specials are a delight.

Air Neutral Special in particular is a stand out, it bridges the air and ground game nicely (including being the last air input right before the ground inputs and Ground Neutral Aerial which is a downright menace when used planet-side, nice theming) and is a delightful example of a complicated construct done well, being something that would be easily understood and used in practice. It adds an extra dimension to all the grounded inputs (sometimes literally) and the way they interact even with each other.

Aside from gushing about the mechanics and specials, the set's got some solid interplay between its normal attacks, 'normal' being very relative in this set- see DTilt into Jab 1 for an example of both. I'm gonna be honest that this is the exact kind of web of shenanigans I always love, even if some of it might be overkill (ground down special and ground up smash's hard interaction for example, cool as it is).


Kind of gave it away there, but my nomination for Jamcon 2 (Deep) is Voyager by Katapultar Katapultar . I have to emphasize that this was an amazing Jamcon, with more than half the sets being material I'd consider a clear winner in a less competitive one; as you can tell by the increasing length of my comments, too, it got me to genuinely enjoy reading and commenting sets again after a long while of the act feeling like pulling teeth even with great sets on offer. All of you did a wonderful job!
 

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,535
Murasa.EXE I got to in an earlier post, so here's the rest. Apologies that these vary wildly in length - my reading has been a bit more broken up than I intended, I'm missing some notes, and I gotta hit these during my one window this weekend.

Dodongo by FrozenRoy FrozenRoy
Dodongo very basic but alright at what it does. Appreciate Dodongo's simplicity and reference to smoke-disliking. Not strongest set in jamcon but also was not trying to be. Glad to see Froy on moveset list. Comment short. What you expect.

Asgore by Arctic Tern Arctic Tern
This is a pretty solid little thing and also I've learned the plot of Undertale from it, that's nice. I did wonder a bit about the choice for him to level up his attacks by using them more often - I think he has enough moves that work like that, and they're committal enough, that it's not a big issue though. He can't Just Do It too casually and even if he sends the foe off-stage and decides to grind instead of edgeguarding, he's got enough different moves that work this way that it's not necessarily even an obvious "yeah spam your fire move while the opponent is off-stage" thing (which even that would not be an inherent problem but might look weird).

Anyway that aside this is not the most ambitious set in the jamcon but you're playing to your strengths and he's pretty tight. Quibbling with the odd technical detail or whatever aside, I don't have much substantial to complain about. The various stripes of delayed fire hitboxes are fun and I really enjoy the choice to differentiate the orange and blue attacks more by which thing is easier to hit in Smash versus reinterpreting them too much.

Xavier by dilliam dilliam
I really only know about this guy from you talking about him but very glad to see him made. Extremely worthy addition to the pantheon of ??? dill Jamcon choices. The set finds some fun ways to play around his silly chaotic whole-match status effects - they're not all equally convincing but I think the time travel duplicate actually rules as a mechanism for managing and responding to RNG. Make some wild uncontrollable choices and then get to play them back? Very interesting space to play in, this one got me thinking a bit. SSpec Note 2 being like "this one is great to fire at your clone!" was also very funny to me. Yeah, sure, 20% chance of things working out, light him up. Feels on brand for Xavier.

I do think the set gives him some kinda gross options that are gonna leave him a bit less likely to mess around too much with his less reliable RNG stuff. Like DSmash sounds super cracked as a ledgetrapping tool but the set doesn't really embrace that. Maybe it's not as mechanically coherent as possible, but it's a very good showcase for the ??? brand of humor - there are a couple quotes in here I quite like. "I'm a survivor. We're a dying breed" is gonna live in my head.

Relicanth by Kholdstare Kholdstare
Not a Pokemon I'm super up on, but cool to see someone do one of the fish ones. Generally I think the set makes pretty good use of the body type for attack animations, but it also isn't afraid to get a little silly in places. The fossil stuff was a surprise - I do think this Pokemon has some kind ot thematic connection to unearthing/discovering stuff from what I gather so I'm willing to buy it. I do think even accepting the premise, the fossl-pokemon summoning feels like a stronger expression of that than the item play. Like z-dropping fossils isn't an issue - I feel like it'd be kind of a big deal mechanically but incidental thematically, though, so I'm not sure if having room for that is really accomplishing what you want.

A few input placements also felt a little odd - I remember feeling like Dash Attack and SSpec would be a bit more interesting the other way around, particularly in the context of the Dash Attack mechanics then becoming more accessible out of the Dive state. Nothing wrong with a set having a purist sort of forward command dash SSpec and upward command dash USpec - I think the tendency in MYM is often to combine and compress to create more to talk about but decompression is valid and can serve to provide a lot of emphasis to specific inputs. But on the other hand I didn't feel like the set particularly got that much out of SSpec.

The core ideas here that the set plays around with (Ancient Power, Dive, Being a Big Fish that Slams Into People) feel like they tell a very consistent story about who this Pokemon is and there are a lot of ideas I really like - Dash Attack is a cool input and a lot of the imagery around Dive and the interactions with it are sick as hell. There's lots of stuff that isn't particularly explored in the set either though (like the impact of stat boosting with Ancient Power doesn't really come up I don't think?) and some normals don't particularly sell themselves as fitting into the larger picture.

Antonio by GolisoPower GolisoPower
I've said as much in chat, but this is exactly the style I'd want from a Vampire Survivors moveset. What if Simon's whole moveset was like his Specials? Also what if that had an insane RNG-fueled upgrade mechanic layered over top that? Ship it, perfect.

Unfortunately I do think there are a few mechanical issues here - the set gets a bit caught up in all the possible upgrades and while every move has some big crazy ideas about how it can bounce off other attacks in his kit, I'm not sure the overall vision ever really comes together? The set's a bit hard to follow but I guess since he's Simon Belmont on coke, he's probably campy and spammy (particularly since the XP mechanic will reward him for spamming a move by making it stronger!). Some of his moves also feel like they're probably a little juicy, the Pentagram and the Whip both had me a little frightened.

I'd agree with Kat's sentiment that he wound up maybe a bit more ambitious than you were really intending, just since the upgrade mechanic nearly doubles his input count on top of having to account for the way a million zany projectiles interact. I think the blueprint here is strong and he could probably be edited up into something really cool without even necessarily changing a lot of what you have down? Just like, fine-tuning some details and making his melee and options a little clearer to track would do a lot for him.

Venture by tunz tunz
Hats off for the speed of the Overwatch-to-MYM pipeline. This comment is probably gonna be short (note from future Nate: not that bad but only because you went on a tangent) because it's the last one of these I'm writing (despite the order they're in here, which is.... arbitrary? Honestly no idea why I wrote Voyager -> Hades -> Dhelmise from bottom to top but then just listed out the rest of the sets in an arbitrary order and went top to bottom above the rest).

Anyway, Venture felt solid but maybe a bit unadventurous? Mostly comparing against King Bob-Omb in my head since I previewed that recently, but that's probably unfair to stack a jamcon subimssion against. Idk, it definitely falls into that space some jamcons do of not really giving me a lot to complain about and just being an alright little quick read. They've got a few pretty cool inputs. The Smashes having the passive charge hitbox is fun and I like the way their digging works (though I do think they're missing some kind of anti-stalling measure?).

If I had to pick at something, I do think the set leads off with what could be a pretty cool NSpec but makes a few choices that means it doesn't quite get built up. I didn't really like the Jab overlapping so much in animation/purpose with it. Like, a degree of visual overlap between attacks is always fine, but the moves feel close to an extent that undercuts NSpec's uniqueness. The moveset also loses track of some of the endlag-canceling stuff I think. The NSpec description says you can only do it on hit but the FTilt description seems to imply the opposite. I'm also not sure the set gets that much out of the endlag-canceling? It feels like a very fun space to play in and it's intuitive for their drill to work like that but it doesn't exactly feel like a core concept, it just opens up some FTilt combos.

I do wonder if Clobber could have been worked into some attacks (like the Smashes) by adding a hitbox instead of just canceling endlag into a move? Like if their Smashes didn't have the passive hitbox feature by default but you could hit the Special button while charging to fire it up as a lil trick that made their Smash take longer to come out maybe that'd be neat. Might increase NSpec's prominence while integrating it more with some of the set's other stuff.

NSpec pondering aside: solid little thing, glad to read it, not specifically hitting my brain hard enough to get a jamcon nod.

Dhelmise by BridgesWithTurtles BridgesWithTurtles
Steelworker provides a really strong design hook here. Dhelmise's wacky disadvantage state and crazy set-ups give the set such a strong backbone. Most of what you're doing here is really pretty grounded, but the way it all exists around Anchor Shot/Steelworker and just how weird his set-ups can get ends up feeling very zany. He's a big polarized superheavy, which MYM has always loved, but he feels very distinct in just the ways he's unusual and how he plays this crazy balancing act with his zany separated hitboxes and hurtboxes.

Generally the set finds a pretty good blend of attacks that are consistent and stem from Dhelmise's wheel versus ones that it can deploy remotely to hit people at silly ranges. You've got a real nack for nailing the basics of how characters should look and feel, I think, and the set is very immediately compelling just from the description of how Dhelmise navigates Smash and how the mechanics of its potential separation work. It feels like a big dumb threat, but slightly off-kilter and spooky at the same time. The anchor always feels like, y'know, an anchor.

I don't normally like to pick on numbers and such too much in Jamcons, but the NAir did raise an eyebrow - FAir might not be taking home the "best frame data" award but I think NAir is. It's fair to give him a good panic button given just how ugly his disadvantage state can get, but this is faster start to finish than Mac's NAir and not too bad a hit either, which is maybe a bit spooky when he has ways to make good use of it offensively. Was happy to see NAir play a bit with the differences between Dhelmise's potentially very different aerial phsyics - later aerials also touch on this a bit but I think this is the one where it definitely feels like the biggest deal. (Do kind of wonder about landing with DAir and how that animates)

Maybe the reason I bring a minor thing like numbers up is that I don't have much in the way of big criticisms. Maybe it underrates how good the off-stage grabgame is, but that's not a deal-breaker. I do think Dhelmise mostly lets the core mechanic carry the set's conceptual intrigue and it doesn't always feel like individual inputs have a ton of pop. There's nothing wrong with that though, a lot of dead simple stuff can be elevated by just bouncing off a cool core mechanic in a smart way.

Hades by WeirdChillFever WeirdChillFever
Really glad you managed to finish up and turn this one in - I was really intrigued by the start of the set, those first few inputs are so ambitious and out there, and implementing these big character turns and conflicts through the mechanics is so fun. Love these sorts of cyclical things. The set does have me a bit curious about the musical (which I've heard songs from before but I never like songs from musicals when I don't have context sorry).

There are a feeeew things I could pick at here in the core of the set. Let's get that out of the way now before I get back to saying positive things. The disconnect in function between the two versions of SSpec is maybe a bit much even though they've got the aesthetic connection. Later down the set a hard interaction gives the train a hitbox and I actually kinda wish that was just in the base version of the move in some fashion? I think if calling on Persephone has some immediately melee benefit then it gets all the more tempting and it's not a straight playstyle customization thing. I'm not sure Hades gets that much out of the "no turning around" thing mechanically even though it's a fun concept that the set builds to in a really fun way. Feels like a bit of a loose end, and the set doesn't even really dig into the fact that it messes with dash-dancing and the like.

That said, I think this set handles the transition from the wacky specials into the more pragamatic melee moves really smoothly. His specials have just enough zaniness to give him this kind of crazy MYM trapper feel and there's a lot of mechanical density, but I feel like the set pulls back at just the right moment to let the melee fundamentals start shining through, and the Kazuya inspiration in the normals works really well to flesh out the trapper playstyle. Hades' ground game feels really naturally integrated with his wacky specials kit - it's a shame the set loses steam in the aerials because I felt like it was on its way to being something very strong.

The core vision here is great and if you end up wanting to take on post-jamcon edits, I think bringing up the later inputs up to scratch with the earlier normals would seriously elevate the set.

Voyager by Katapultar Katapultar
This set reads like a live version of a five-minute song where the performer just kinda dropped a twenty-minute guitar solo in the middle. It's so big and wacky and weird, and the mechanical heat of it is really not where I thought it'd be. The set tees you up to really expect this big aerial focus and the aerials are important, but they end with the planet as this big explosive centerpiece that kicks off all the nutty sandbox stuff in the grounded inputs, which really steals the show.

Voyager is just doing a crazy amount of stuff. It adds up to a Lot to process, and I'm not sure I have a coherent opinion on what works or doesn't work in the set. It feels like some of the basics are maybe a little under-developed - the aerials don't really deal that much in just how unique his aerial movement is. They have their little quirks and all, but Peachfloat alone is a hell of a thing to understate and he's got a lot going on even past that. Going light on that stuff is super understandable for a jamcon but it does feel a little weird contrasted against just how hard you're prepared to lean into some of the more out-there pieces of the kit. There are hard interactions and little quirks throughout the set that feel like they're just kinda there because you were in the zone and having fun. Sure, the rocket's thrusters keep firing and act like a trap after you slam it into the stage. Why not, I'll sign up to hear another couple minutes of guitar riffs. I like guitar.

I think that's what gets me - at the end of the day it's entertaining as hell to read, and I can't fault the odd maximalist "just go nuts" moveset. They're fun to write! And Voyager is undeniably clever as hell particularly in the core ideas - the planet creation and the restrictions around them and the placement dynamics are so tight and compelling. The tension in jumping around and trying to generate critical stars and the risk/reward of spending his air time is brilliant. It's such a crazy kinetic kit for a little explorer to test his limits before returning to terra firma.

I'm a little stunned that something like this came out of a jamcon, but maybe I shouldn't be. I'm not confident enough in the mechanics for this to be like an "I'm gonna SV this" type thing for me (though idk, I may reevaluate that with time) and it wasn't necessarily a lock for my jamcon vote, I gave a lot of consideration to both Dhelmise and Asgore (Asgore being I think the strongest-executed of this jamcon's sets and Dhelmise being more of a happy medium between Asgore's solid execution and Voyager's all-out high-octane mechanics). But as an artistic statement this is one of my favorite movesets ever, I'm not sure if I've had this strong a reaction to a moveset since Alex.

Jamcon nom to Voyager, tip of the hat to everyone else.

I know at least one more person is trying to fit reading in so I won't close right away, holding out a bit longer.
 

BridgesWithTurtles

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Comments for all Jamcon sets.

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Asgore by Arctic Tern

The first move in the set was a little confusing to fully understand. The fireball is supposed to be destroyable with melee attacks, with 35HP, which seems like a lot considering most melee attacks deal somewhere in the sub-15% range, but it also despawns on contact? Wouldn't attacking it once, regardless of damage, be able to destroy it then?

Side Special is very neat. I always really enjoy moves and mechanics that play around with idling as a basis for hitbox interaction.

I do really like how this set integrates the character's penchant for restrained pacifism into the overall playstyle. Having the combo game largely revolve around bring the opponent to him, even through encouragement rather than through actual force in some cases, really ties into the characterization. One almost gets the feeling that Asgore's really trying to delay winning a match as long as possible, just to give the foe any chance they can to come back against him. All the same, the longer the opponent takes to finish him off, the stronger he can buff himself, as if his reticence is wearing off over time. Little details like the hesitation on the startup animation of his Fsmash add to this very well.

If I have any complaints, it's concerning numbers, which make some aspects seem overturned and others just the opposite. Even for as hard as it may be to buff some of his moves, the fire pillars being able to last 10 seconds, for instance, seems like way too much longevity for hazards that can occupy so much space when there's up to three on them on the stage. I'm also not quite sure what you mean when you use "units" as measurement, since you describe Up Smash as having 3 units of vertical range but also state that it rivals that of Palutena's, and I can't really piece together how her move could measure out to something described as such. That being said, this isn't the case for all of the set, or even the majority of it. The number scaling on moves like Dash Attack make perfect sense and are both understandable and clearly reasonable. I also like how much the set takes into consideration the stage being played on when accounting for the effectiveness of certain moves and combos. My favorite move in the set is actually the Back Throw, which while fairly simple, has a lot going for it with its fun buffs and min-maxed opportunity cost to take into account.

Despite my stupidity making it hard for me to understand numbers, I genuinely do like this set. Earlier on, I was a bit concerned about how spammable his fire-based attacks could end up being, but over the course of the set, you do a good job explaining why this wouldn't necessarily be the case. As someone who's never played Undertale, this moveset is commendable in how it's able to communicate the essence of the character even to someone like me.

Venture by Tunz
Starting to see that Overwatch is your "thing". It's amazing to me that you able to not only get a feel for these characters over such a short fragment of time, but then roll out an entire moveset within that same small window. Color me impressed. It usually takes me an entire weekend just to put away my folded laundry. For a character with so little established reference material, linking the trailer was a smart decision, although clearly I have to dock points for making me watch an ad. /s

I'm always skeptical about how people might handle digging mechanics, but the moveset gets off to a pretty good start with the damage reduction mechanic, which makes logical sense and contributes well to the fundamental playstyle as a sort of "rush in and suffocate" character. I gather that it's basically a straight adaptation from the source material, so I guess it makes sense to implement. Regardless, I like it. Unfortunately, the actual application of this mechanic within the rest of the set is understated, and could do with a lot more elaboration to make stronger use of the concept, and really drill into the reader (pun intended) the potential of the character's gimmick.

This is somewhat subjective I suppose, but this set has some of the same problem I had with Mauga, relying on a single weapon to carry almost all of the animations. I get that the drill is the character's whole shtick, but even just throwing in something like a kick or two on a few inputs would break up the sameness of a lot of the animations. The smashes using rock props is a good way to mix things up, and the Ftilt and Fair using bombs is nice, even if they're mirrored inputs (I normally don't really care about that sort of thing as long as it makes sense and is handled well). I'm not a fan of Dair just being the same thing as Up Special. Not sure why that couldn't have just been a downward-angled function of the Up Special instead of its own move. The best use of the drill in the set is probably the Up and Down Throws and the DI mixups they provide for. I'm a fan of that.

I've noticed you getting a little more in-depth with your sets, which is great. Venture dives deeper (pun intended) into aspects like their combo game and various uses for attacks than most of your previous submissions. However, I do think a lot is left to be explored with their potential mechanical depth. Guess it's kinda hard to really expand on a character with so little material to work with at the moment, especially for a set written within such a limited amount of time, but even if you have to make stuff up, you can definitely get more elaborate with most of the inputs here. All the same, keep up the good work.

Hades by WeirdChillFever

Hades is kind of everything I tend to dislike in a moveset. Visual clutter, heavy prop usage, minions, resource micromanaging, and interactions that are so specific that I'd never even remember to deliberately make use of them in an actual match. Basically, I'd never want to play as this character.

This doesn't mean I scorn the effort, though. In fact, I quite enjoyed reading the moveset. Despite embodying most of what I would hate to actually engage with as a Smash player, it also expresses much of what I love about writing and the creative process. The whole thing reads like the story it's based on, and everything is interwoven like a mapped-out plot or a fine symphony. Hades has a finely crafted playstyle that embodies the character with absolute perfection. His arsenal is rife with elaborate setups that boast immense reward but, in a Sisyphean sense, always set him back and work against him in some way as well. Carefully balancing a paradigm with Persephone comes off as a Herculean task that makes the player feel about as paranoid and aggrieved as Hades himself, left to never be fully satisfied even with the best possible outcome of any investment made or action performed.

To simply recap all of the nuances and smartly-designed aspects of the set would require me to write a review as lengthy as the document itself, so I won't even attempt such a thing. A couple of moves feel just a tiny bit phoned in, particularly the Fthrow, but with how setup-crazy the set is as a whole, having a handful of simpler attacks doesn't exactly harm things. A personal standout mechanic of the set for me would be the Shades, which have actually given me an idea or two for a set of my own I've been working on...

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Antonio Belpaese by GolisoPower


Continuing the trend of "movesets I would absolutely never be able to grasp in a real match", we have Antonio. The document really benefits from having a navigable sidebar due to how much it refers back to the sheer number of various equippable items. Having so much variability on every single input is certainly a bold choice. Truth be told, I'm not entirely sure how well this would actually work in practice. The devotion to working out all the various interactions and potential combos, and how every item would affect every move in general, is nonetheless impressive. It's not the longest moveset in the world, but it's one I had to take a break from while reading due to how much there was to download.

What's commendable is that every input here has a ton of thought put into it. There's a solid grasp of mechanics on display here, so every input feels well designed and with a clear intended use. Where the set stumbles a bit, I feel, is in pulling these ideas all together into a truly coherent whole. Each individual attack is great on its own, but together, they make for a somewhat disjointed set that I'm not sure benefits all too profoundly from the core gimmick it's based around. Each separate part is more interesting than the sum of what they add up to.

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Murasa.EXE by UserShadow

This anchor-and-helm-wielding ship-sinker is my personal rival this Jamcon, I see. "There's something so satisfying about hitting opponents with an anchor so you can hit them with another anchor." Couldn't have said it better myself.

It's of course fitting that a character heavily associated with anchors would have such a focus on edgeguarding - dropping heavy objects to sink foes off-stage and whatnot. Murasa.EXE gets good mileage out of this propensity, with all of her specials being very fun moves that all play a role in making her opponents feel seasick just trying to recover. I'm particularly a fan of Side Special's lag-canceling mechanic and how it interacts with moves like her laggy Up Special, the gigantic anchor drop being one of my favorite moves in the set for how bombastic it is and how players can get multiple subsequent uses out of by timing it around their Side Special, even if it isn't always practical. Likewise, how Side Special interacts with Forward Smash is also great - I really like how the latter move is designed to accomodate both potential benefit as well as drawback from canceling it early. That's some good old layered depth. Up Smash is another move I'm really a fan of, with a great animation with multiple working parts that all come together beautifully to make for a fun and mechanically cogent series of interworking hitboxes. The rest of the moves earn similar complement, and there really isn't a bad input in the whole thing.

This one was a fun, easy read with a lot of personality behind it. Your writing style continues to be one of my favorites due to its clarity of language and colorful descriptions that manage to keep the read well-paced but without sacrificing detail.

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Relicanth by Kholdstare

Bravo for the braille fakeout, like everyone else agrees. Brilliant bit of character-specific presentation there.

I'm not sure I get what the connection between Ancient Power and widening pools of water is, but whatever. It's a magical fish. I'll buy it. I do like how you decided to just run with the "fossil master" theme with the set (to the point that all three Smash Attacks are named some variant of "Find Fossil"), and other than actual fossil Pokémon themselves, there probably isn't a better candidate for this from the franchise than Relicanth.

"I stopped here because Gen 8’s fossils confuse me."
Same, man. Same.

The brevity necessitated by the Jamcom window does hurt the set to some degree. Placeholder numbers and short move descriptions aside, the set would definitely benefit from some more detail on its mechanics. For example, it's not mentioned how long Ancient Power's buffs last for. Also probably wouldn't hurt to mention some sort of HUD display for which fossil Relicanth is holding, since I imagine it'd be hard to make out during normal gameplay.

Dash Attack is probably my favorite move here. I really like the sense of a fluidly curvable movemention option, and particularly love the way it can bend opponents along with it. My only complaint with the move is that it doesn't go far enough! My immediate thought when reading it was "Oh, I'll bet you can use the current to flush a foe into a Dive Spot with you for repositioning shenanigans!" I also really like Down Throw and its setups. Putting both players to sleep is hilariously anticlimactic, and killing someone by putting them to sleep and then having them simply drown in a puddle is such a brilliantly dumb idea. Much applause for this input.

"The pivot grab and running grab animations each also have Relicanth open its mouth early to inhale bubbles and microorganisms (not seen since they’re microorganisms) in comparison to the shorter yap opening of Relicanth’s standing grab, if that makes any sense at all."
This part was genuinely funny. And I do think it's a clever animation differential, even if it was probably just mentioned as an off-hand joke.

All in all, I'm not sure how well the set really comes together into something compelling. There are some moves with solid ideas at play, such as Down Tilt and Forward Throw, but there's not enough glue here to keep it all together. At the same time though, it's not exactly easy to make compelling movesets for characters that are literally fish, and since you basically hit all the checkmarks you possibly could for "Relicanth moveset", this is probably the best someone could've done for this particular Pokémon. If nothing else, it was a fun read, if not an especially ambitious project. And hey, I'd play as this moveset. Why not? Sounds fun enough.

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Dodongo by FrozenRoy

Great! I can't wait to review-bomb some Dodongos!

Turtles like short read. Turtles thankful moveset small and easy. What you expect when Turtles slow reader? Get good laugh from silly moveset.

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Xavier by Dilliam

I have no idea what this character even is.

I'mma be real here: this moveset sounds like a fever dream to play as or against. Probably the intention. Regardless, I don't even know where to start or what to make of it. A lot of the RNG feels kinda busted, but the rest of the set doesn't take so much advantage of this that it feels completely overpowered. Just comes off as a minor nuisance to fight against at worst. I guess the randomness is supposed to be in-character? I don't have much else to offer comment-wise, but I'm commenting anyway to simply let you know that I did read it.

Voyager by Katapultar

I saved this reading for last because I heard it was a doozy, and if I'd committed to it earlier then I'd probably have burnt out before finishing the rest. If my comment ends up a little short, hopefully you can forgive me, because that probably means I'm a bit tired by this point.

I think what this set does best is how it achieves a completely unique sense of playstyle right out the gate, purely from the character's movement mechanics. I can't think of another moveset that nails down the feeling of controlling a weightless astronaut quite so elegantly. It's like Sora and Jigglypuff fused together and drank some of Willy Wonka's fizzy lifting drinks. It might also be the single best, even definitive, implementation of gravity mechanics I've seen in a moveset. Arguably the biggest achievement here is belting out a set of such detail and complexity within such a restricted time frame.

As far as the moves themselves, excellent job on all fronts. Every move has an understandable and vividly described purpose, and make ample use of the myriad mechanics at play here. My favorite move is the space buggy for its really fun usage as a way to go deep off-stage without having any application as a recovery move, and for being able to loop it around on a stationary planet to create a passive hitbox. The summonable planet construct, which I at first expected to come up only occasionally as an extraneous interactable hazard, gets a ton of great mileage in general, and I love the way Voyager can interact with it to shift up his air-to-ground/ground-to-air movement quirks and orient his moves in directions they normally wouldn't have access to.

Praises aside, this type of set with a whole shelf of character-specific mechanics and variants for nearly every input to cover any situation imaginable has never been my exact cup of tea, especially from an "would I actually want to play as this character" angle, and while what's achieved here is undeniably laudable on an objective level, it didn't quite spark the same level of enthusiasm from me as some other submissions. Nonetheless, you should absolutely be proud of this moveset. It deserves all the praise that it's gotten, and if I ever actually voted, it'd get a SV from me for sure.

Final thoughts and nomination:

This Jamcon really served to (re-)highlight for me the creative talent that's always present in so many of the members of this community. Honestly, I don't feel like my own contribution holds a candle to most of the other submissions here, but I greatly appreciate all the feedback and the mostly positive response I've gotten for Dhelmise. I know the set has a few typos and some questionable numbers in places, which I'm intending to fix after the Jamcon ends.

I really liked most of the submissions this time, so picking a nomination was pretty tough. After weighing multiple factors, I think it's only fair that I hand my vote to Voyager, which despite not being my personal favorite set of the bunch, has enough objective strengths and raw effort put into it that it outweighs the more subjective preferences I have for other entries. It was a real close one, though, with both Murasa.EXE and Hades being very close runners-up.
 
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bubbyboytoo

Smash Cadet
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bubbyboytoo
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"Kneel before us!"
"All the commonplace and mundane..."
"...we shall cut down with one swing of our blade!"
"Oh, you poor souls lost within an eternal cycle..."
"...we welcome you with open wings."

We are the rightful rulers of Eden's planet,

Secret Society
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀holoX! de gozaru!
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
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Nov 24, 2008
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Location
Australia
The big ambitious Bubby moveset finally makes its entrance, and it starts out with a rather funny opening paragraph for its Neutral Special. Listing La + Darkness’s lines in straight-up Japanese and using the suggestions feature to display translations for them captures the feel of La + Darkness being a Japanese-based Vtuber. In any case, here we have easily your most ambitious moveset in the form of an Ice Climbers character, an archetype you seem to enjoy given your votelists. The amount of details given on how your subordinates work as Ice Climbers, and the balance and mechanics behind them (summoning subordinates with their own uses, commanding them and the acknowledged reaction time from commanding them manually, subordinate Specials only usable with manual input), is all quite good! I feel like you’ve gotten better at being more specific with your melee in this set, though the long production time on this set would certainly help with that. Referencing moves before they’re mentioned to give them more synergy between one another feels like something that’s rubbed off onto your through reading other sets.

The subordinate Specials are all decent little moves that feel like they’d be Specials on one of your smaller sets, all with their own use cases when you can separate your group. Lui’s reel-in, Koyori’s dog bomb and Chole’s gun cancel potential are all fun. I’m glad to see that all the Specials share a common weakness of not being vertically-effective (aside from Chloe’s attack to some degree), ensuing that La + Darkness can’t gain too much control with her subordinates when having 4 out really is a lot.

Iroha’s Special might be my favourite for giving opponents a gameplay incentive to go after her rather than La + Darkness, though I think it’s somewhat overpowered in spite of its vertical weakness: comes out instantly after the charging animation, potentially covering a very wide area that foes can’t react to, and La + Darkness can move and attack while it’s being charged and getting that reach extension! Combine this with the “pseudo-invincibility” where Iroha can punish opponents for hitting La + Darkness if they’re positioned correctly. I think it all ends up being fairly oppressive over the 3 seconds the state lasts for. Personally, I’d give Iroha more end lag the longer her attack is charged, being an extreme amount if it’s charged the whole way. Wouldn’t be a huge deal to La + Darkness when she and her other subordinates can act, plus it would play further into the “use Iroha to distract opponents” aspect of her set. Iroha’s attack isn’t a -big- detractor for me right now, and I might be mistaken about things with all the details one needs to remember about how the team function.

  • I wish Kazma Iroha really was a ninja - then I’d have made a set for her. Sadly, there are no actual ninjas among the Hololive to my knowledge, but I’d love to know if any exist (outside of existing Hololives or OCs being dressed up as ninjas despite not being ninjas lore-wise).

Side Special’s image is cool, and its characterization of La + Darkness rocks. Also, I think the Palpatine comparison would get quite the reaction out of FA if he read this set and movesets in general this contest. I also like how La + Darkness’s lightning can target multiple targets, fitting for someone who wants world domination. I think the Special is a little unsubstantial, not unlike Fox’s Blaster, but it still slots in nicely as a way to control your subordinates, and the nice touch of being able to access their Specials during their end lag vs not being able to while the lightning is active for obvious reasons. I think the periodic flinching would be somewhat annoying to go up against while you’re manually-controlling a subordinate, but La + Darkness’s lightning range is not infinite, and the subordinates thankfully can’t access their Specials during it.

Yep, artificial platforms are always fun, so it’s fun to see you delve into one for the Up Special. I weirdly keep forgetting about respawn platforms, Battlefield platforms always come to mind, so the platform comparison is surprisingly refreshing here. I like how the platform works with certain subordinate control schemes that leave them in place, and obviously assisting with the fact that they lack vertical presence. Down Special is a counter that plays around with La + Darkness’s potential true power, and it’s funny that we’ve had two sets - almost back-to-back with counters that go against grabs (the other being Lord Cyber). It’s a pretty simple counter with different results among your subordinates, though it does feel a bit generic for a Special on a 30k moveset. Chole’s gunshots also deal different damage than they do on her Neutral Special - I have absolutely no problem with this, but it was something you pointed out in your (Natsume) Iroha comment last contest, and it’s admittedly a pet peeve of mine when someone criticizes an aspect of a set/work and then does that same thing on their own work.

  • Little thing about La + Darkness’s Jab and Forward Tilt being referred to as “good out-of-shield options:” it takes 11 frames to drop your shield before you can perform grounded options (minus Up Smash and Up Special, which can be done out-of-shield), so your Aerials would typically be better as out-of-shield options when it only takes 3 frames to use them out of your jumpsquat.
  • Might be a good idea to move the subordinates’ normal attacks up to the start of the Standards if you’re going to bring them up during each of La + Darkness’s Standard attacks. In any case, I like the dynamic of each of your subordinates having one move out of each input section that they can be prompted to use during cases like your end lag or in the middle of certain attacks: they all have one consistent attack that you can mix in with multiple of your inputs. It feels like a more advanced version of Tainted Forgotten, and I liked that set’s bone-controlling concept. Giving subordinates a single Normal they can use to follow up off of your attacks if you knock a foe towards one also makes which attack they’ll use consistent.
  • Up Tilt is very standardfare, but I do enjoy its simplistic but effective use with your platform. It’s worth noting that you could potentially leave opponents prone on a platform if their knockback ends roughly above one, much like you can do with throws and other vertical-launching moves on Battlefield, so that might be worth a mention to get more out of your platform.
  • I see that Kirby GIF you sneaked into that Lui normal attack.
  • Koyori’s Normal attack is kind of fun as a potential follow-up to La + Darkness’s Jab, or as an option to cover her. Chloe’s Normal feels potent, and I have to wonder if there’s more room to talk about ways you could land the attack and the implications of its small but delayed powerful hitbox. Iroha’s sword attack probably deals a bit much damage, especially against shields when you consider that she can effectively be deployed as a minion, and it doesn’t seem too hard to lock your opponent in place with all the stray hitboxes the group has.

  • It would be fun if La + Darkness’s Forward Smash skewered opponents for considerable hitlag on impact, something to convey the impact to readers in a manner not unlike what Turtles would do. I do wonder if it’s a bit too easy for La + Darkness to land this powerful attack when her subordinates offer a decent amount of minion presence, not to mention some of their Normals have multi-hit trapping and they can potentially use these independently of La + Darkness. La + Darkness even benefits from being able to create a platform on demand to just kill offstage opponents earlier, though lining up her F-Smash would still be hard in this situation, and she wouldn’t go in too deep given the nature of her recovery.
  • Up Smash does have some overlap with Up Tilt, but with the added ability to control a subordinate and use their Specials (and Aerials) while you’re charging. I think that controlling another character while you’re charging a Smash attack would be awkward on the player’s hands and how they control the subordinate, as you have to hold down the A button and the control stick up (or down for Down Smash), but they could probably get over this by assigning Smash attacks to the C-stick on their control stick.
  • Bold of Koyori to have a cycle-based attack for her Smash input. I like these type of cycle-based attacks where the individual attacks have their potency balanced out by the move-cycling, even if the effects of Koyori’s 4 attacks are more niche rather than playing into the moveset’s mechanics too deeply. The eccentric effects and move-cycling does fit a mad scientist character!

  • The starting lag of Chole’s Smash attack compared to La + Darkness’s doesn’t seem to really be specified (alongside Iroha’s), though it seems like it at least comes out faster than La + Darkness’s Forward Smash. I appreciate that none of the subordinates’ Smashes are super-casual ways to lock foes into La + Darkness’s F-Smash, as Chole has to land a semi-specific sourspot on her Smash to get a chance at this.
  • I like the subtle animation aspect of Iroha’s Smash attack. The counter aspect does have a minor redundancy aspect when the move has a relatively similar purpose to Iroha’s Special attack (minus stuff like not moving forward, and different knockback angle). While Iroha’s Special is partially balanced out by needing to be done with a manual input, I think that letting Iroha just use and mix up her Smash to tank and counter attacks while she’s deployed feels unfun, as she’s effectively a minion and that leaves La + Darkness and her other friends free to act. A minion really should not have the kinds of mix-ups that should be reserved for a player character, and it kind of goes against the grain of “let opponents target Iroha and use her as a distraction” that I liked with her Special.
  • You might want to note that attacks in-general have a window where opponents are locked in hitlag before the knockback of that occurs, which is generally higher the more knockback that attack dealt (around 16 frames for the average Forward Smash?). I believe this would lead to scenarios where Chole and Iroha’s Smash attacks could lock foes into La + Darkness’s Forward Smash in cases where you didn’t intend for them to. It’s digging really deep into Smash mechanics though, so I won’t make a huge fuss over its balance implications here.

  • Forward Air might weirdly be my favourite move in the set so far (at least in the non-Specials), as it has some fun melee implications of being a slow attack with low landing lag that makes it good for shield pressure, plus a late hitbox that’s prime for follow-ups.
  • Back Air channels the energies of Polterkitty to some degree, which makes the move nice as its varying knockback allows La + Darkness some degree of utility in how far she can launch opponents.
  • Oh yeah, Up Air actually has a cool dynamic: an initial short-ranged (slow-ish and impractical-to-land) hitbox that’s followed by a very tall hitbox, great for utilizing your platforms or attacking opponents who jump around your subordinates.
  • La + Darkness feel like they could have a bit more in spite of their simplicity (DI mix-ups?), but I do like the fact that she can position herself during her subordinates’ throwing animations based on what she wants to follow up with. A nice something for the trouble you went through for having to manually input your subordinates’ grab from a Neutral Special.
  • Koyori’s sticky bomb throw makes pretty nice use of your high-person count! A fun little move where it’s ironically easier to remove the bomb if there’s a stationary subordinate to pass it on to.

All and all, La + Darkness is certainly your most ambitious moveset! It wouldn’t be a stretch to say she’s your best solo outing, though I don’t think she’s a frontrunner-tier set despite her length due to a combination of many “average” inputs (Side Special, Down Special, Throws, some grounded moves), and her melee game not displaying the same interesting nuances like a number of other sets this contest. For instance, Down Special’s various follow-ups could be made more compelling if they were stated to lead into follow-ups from the subordinate that countered for you.

Aforementioned Iroha balance issues aside, I also think that this set goes overboard with its minions in a way that feels too exploitable for La + Darkness. Personally, I think the ability to drop down a stationary minion that can sit around and attack nearby opponents is pretty powerful. This is especially the case when the stationary subordinates all have a (fast) Special that can be inputted manually, plus they can hit opponents knocked towards them. I also think this set and some other minion sets underestimate how effective it is to have a punching bag to divert your opponent’s attention. For one, your subordinates can act as meat shields to tank enemy projectiles, which would be pretty darn annoying for someone like Samus (I personally let projectiles pass through hurtboxes my sets can generate unless there’s a good reason for them not to), and if foes so much as divert their attention on a subordinate they’ll give La + Darkness the chance to lash out at them (her dashing speed isn’t the worst for this), or at least the chance to recover.

Where it mainly gets too much for me is the fact that La + Darkness can have all four of her subordinates out and thereby have 3 or so minions out. Sure, there’s a 5 second cooldown between summoning them so it takes 20 seconds to get all four of them out, and you’re at risk of being left with a much worse moveset if you lose all your subordinates, but it does take foes a fair amount of effort to kill a separated subordinate in spite of the doubled damage they take (they have 100 weight units and infinite jumps) and they aren’t lost forever on defeat like the minions that Ferrijit or Saori have, so there’s a good chance the subordinates will live for a while when opponents have to fight La + Darkness as well. Personally, I’d make it so La + Darkness can only have one separated subordinate out (in addition to the one at her side): she wouldn’t lose out on any of the stage control, combos or platform fun she can get with her moveset, but it would prevent her from potentially snowballing opponents. I think it would straight-up make the moveset more compelling, as it would require more careful resource management on the player’s part - needing to pick where to set their subordinate, as well as which one they want for the current stage of the match.

I’m really sorry if I’m digging into this set too much when you deserve a lot more for your efforts, it’s just that I tend to get really nitpicky about minion balance compared to more simple, orthodox attacks, as player-based minions aren’t really a thing in Smash (besides Dedede’s Waddle Dees from Brawl) and it’s easy to accidentally make them broken when their summoners can act alongside them. In any case, I’d say that toning down Iroha’s counters and the set’s stray subordinate count would fix the issues I have right now, whereby I could safely say that La + Darkness is your best solo outing. In the meantime, great job at getting out this huge set!
 

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,535
Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and call it a wrap on Jamcon 27-2!

Our runaway winner is Katapultar's Voyager with 4.5 votes (Tern, US, Turtles, n88, voter bonus)! Dhelmise also puts in a respectable showing with 2.5 (Kat, Brasil, voter bonus), and then Asgore and Murasa.EXE draw for third with 0.5 apiece (voter bonus).

Congrats to Kat, who takes the reins for the next Jamcon! Excellent work everyone, was very pleased with this jamcon's turnout.
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
137
LA+ DARKNESSS (Bubby)

La+ Darknesss is from what I can gather basically Plankton as an anime girl, and as such has the requisite minion based-gameplan. I really like the way they’re handled; they have mini-movesets of their own, and can be used as either Nana-esque followers or set onstage as proper minions. This gives Laplus a ton of stage control, especially as she can have all four of them out at once, but they take double damage from attacks, have very limited recovery, and the more are onstage the longer the cooldown for summoning them becomes and the longer it takes to bring them back once they’re KOed. Additionally, and a very in-character weakness, Laplus isn’t actually that good without subordinates, with a poor ability to combo, a tendency to have slow moves, and a very predictable recovery combined with light weight. I feel like it all averages out to make the immense amount of stage control she can get feel earned, with the first minion being summoned quickly enough that she isn’t helpless in early game.

The actual subordinates themselves have vastly different roles based on their established personalities. Lui, a big sis-type, gets the basic, reliable moveset, with general good frame data and range and a Special where she ties the foe up for the others to punish. Chloe, the “cleaner”, is mainly dedicated to securing early kills in advantage state; my favorite move of hers is her aerial, a decently strong move on its own that has an incredibly strong hit which comes out much later than the “main” hit. Iroha, Laplus’ bodyguard, is a defensive subordinate all around, with her smash attack acting as a pseudo-counter and her moves generally being safe, but worse for killing. Finally, Koyori, befitting a mad scientist, is a wild card: her smash runs off of a cycle, and her throw attaches a time bomb to the opponent.

Naturally, the set is at its best when discussing the intersections between Laplus and her subordinates’ sets. Laplus’ own moves are fairly basic, but still get the job done, with USpec being particularly neat in creating a platform for her subordinates to use their ground moves from. Particular highlights include FAir, which has decently high startup but surprisingly low landing lag that lets her use it for shield pressure, and Jab, which has very slow startup normally but is basically unpunishable once it comes out, made significantly more viable by the fact that her subordinates’ standard attacks come out faster than her Jab. Even when all of them are onstage, a consistent weakness against aerial attacks enables the foe to counterplay to some extent, though I do think that the subordinates could afford to be a bit lighter. I also have a few mechanical issues (what specific directions are needed to access a specific subordinate? Does Koyori’s smash reset its cycle if she is KOed?) but these are ultimately fairly nitpicky.

Laplus does suffer a bit in terms of simplistic attacks, but these are more than made up for by how they intersect with her subordinates’ kits, and even then I like a good amount of them. It overall adds up to a very solid minion set and one that manages to pay tribute to every character involved.

FUWAMOCO (cashregister)

It’s honestly pretty hilarious that we got two back-to-back hololive sets with an Ice Climbers-like mechanic. Fuwawa and Mococo are a much more traditional take on the archetype, though they do diverge a bit in having different attacks for some of their aerials. Their main mechanic is fairly interesting, in that each character’s attacks have a small chance of inflicting a stack of a unique status ailment: Fuwawa causes the foe to go to sleep, while Mococo stuns them. More interesting is the fact that both status effects cannot be on the opponent at once, forcing the Fuwamoco player to stick to playing as one twin for a bit if they want to capitalize on them. I also like the mechanics behind DSpec, a Soccer Ball-clone that takes on the properties of the attack that hits it, as well as having a rush SSpec to use as a deliberate desyncing tool.

Aside from these interesting mechanics, the moves themselves are fairly simple, with no real gameplan besides an implied combo playstyle from their mechanic and the speed of their attacks. The status effects Fuwawa and Mococo inflict are also fairly similar in terms of overall function (plus it’s never stated how long the foe is put to sleep/stunned for), meaning that in practice there’d be no real difference to the different effects; maybe one could be shifted to a statistics debuff? While the frame data seems correct to me, there is a notable lack of any in the smashes, as well as missing frame data in FTilt and DTilt (though in FTilt’s case this seems to be a mistake). NSpec healing for a flat 25% seems very powerful, especially when the amount healed increases just by hurting Fuwamoco and even with the move becoming weaker the more it's used. Lastly, I don’t really get a sense of character for the duo other than “fluffy/fuzzy catgirl”, so it feels more like a set for a catgirl OC duo than a set for the characters specifically. In short, while I like a good bit of the ideas in play, the lack of elaboration on them and in the set in general means that they lack the substance to be truly memorable.

Link to full comment repository here!
 
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cashregister9

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
8,772
BAU BAU NAU!! 🐾🩵🩷

Baubau.png


-So first off, I started this one like a month ago, stopped, and then cleaned and finished it up recently (the holoX one kinda inspired me to continue. Although it does feel weird posting another hololive one so soon after that behemoth lmao.)

-I'm not super satisfied with this moveset, and I was gonna abandon it but I wrote like 2000 words and I didn't really want it to go to waste and I think I had a few neat ideas here (although I think a bit over ambitious considering my writing skill for something like this). Still though, I am glad I at least got it out there despite what it is lacking. Practice makes perfect and all that.

-It is not as detailed as I should have done, and I really should have had more images and details about usage (although a lot of this does not have a reference so there isn't much I could do lol) but again that is really just leftover from the fact that I was going to abandon it. It was one of those things where I got progressively more annoyed the more I worked on it.

-While writing it, I realized how out of practice I was in terms of this style of smash writing, because I forgot about a lot of concepts lmao. So this was kind of a reintroduction for me. I had to bounce between the smash wiki and my Vriska moveset. So there is probably some conflicting design here and is almost certainly unbalanced, apologies for that.

-I also apologize for not really commenting on the last MYM I was a part of, I will try and be more active.
 
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Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Australia
It’s pleasantly surprising to see that La + Darkness inspired you to finish a Hololive set and post it soon after her! Like La + Darkness, this moveset makes use of multiplier VTubers in one package, with an Ice Climbers deal where both Tubers need to be KO’ed in order to take their stock. Their Fluffy and Fuzzy mechanic is interesting (and introduced nicely!): applying a debilitating status effect after 3 stacks of their effect reminds me of my recent Ninja moveset’s Forward Tilt (specifically the sleep part). Has a bit of extra novelty when it’s in a tag-team set and one effect is applied by one character, especially when applying the opposite stack when an opponent is asleep/stunned will increase that move’s damage and knockback! The exact nature of the status effects could do with some extra detail though: not sure whether the sleep effect is just like Jigglypuff’s, only working against grounded opponents, or whether it works like Hero’s Snooze and can put airborne opponents to sleep. Likewise, I’m not entirely sure if Mococo’s stun is the same paralyzer effect as Zero Suit Samus’s stun, or the dizzy effect that occur when a fighter’s shield breaks (and can thereby only be inflicted on grounded opponents, same as Jigglypuff’s Sing).

  • The pon de ring’s healing amount is a bit confusing - I assume it heals a quarter of the lead’s percent (so being at 50% would heal you 12.5%), but you can’t heal more than 50%. The rate at which they heal might be a bit strong, even if it gets slower the more you do it and only one Tuber can heal at a time.
  • Their method of splitting up and switching between who leads is… unique! It’s space-demanding, and it sounds like it only works on the ground (or is at least slower in midair, as their air speed is considerably slower than their dashing speed), but makes for an easy way to split up the duo if it works.
  • I assume that Side Special uses both Fuwa and Moco at the same time, which could lead to some fun coverage when they’re separated or at least separate them if they’re together. It might be a bit too close to Wolf’s Side Special for my tastes - being close to existing Smash attacks isn’t a bad thing, but the move doesn’t have the same flavour as their Neutral or Down Special where it’s noted to represent an aspect of their character.
  • Also worth noting that Side Special’s lag seems to be quite short compared to Wolf’s: theirs is 8 start-up and 10 frames to end, which is abnormally fast and generally the speed of a Jab or a quicker Down Tilt. Wolf’s Side Special, by comparison, takes 18 frames to start and 29 to end. That might sound slow on paper, but the move feels fast and sudden due to how quickly he completes his movement.
  • On the other hand, I like that FuwaMoco’s attacks have a greater chance of applying their stacks the higher your opponent’s percentage is, making it more effective when they have more damage and practically a death sentence if you can effectively put them to sleep or stun them when both Fuwa and Moco are out.
  • Pero being a soccer ball that can take on your moves’ status effects is kind of fun.

While this set has a promising base in its tag team set-up, it is considerably underdeveloped in the detail department: attacks tend to have damage, frame data and launch angles listed, but knockback strength and move applications are largely missing. You’ll learn that stuff with time, reading and observation, though, and tag team sets can be tricky to make compelling.

It also feels like the set’s flavour and characterization suffer for how short the descriptions are: I don’t get much of an impression of who Fuwa and Moco are as characters, other than being Vtubers, their titles of Demonic Guard Dogs and that they love pon de rings. Their Up Special and Final Smash names give the impression of them being rebels - only learned from story mode discussion in our Discord chat that Fuwa and Moco went to jail for “being a pain in the godly behind.” If their characterization involves being annoying, then perhaps this could be injected into their attack animations? Maybe even their extra animations - “Fuwawa and Mococo jump up from the bottom of the screen” is admittedly a bit dry as a description for an entrance animation, to give an example.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Australia
The Jamcon has come around again, and this time we're in 27-3. I hope you're in the mood to write a quick moveset!

Jamcons are a monthly contest in which contestants write up a full moveset over a 4-day period, typically between Saturday-Tuesday. After that, you optionally have two weeks to comment on all the entries and nominate for your favourite. Then all the nominations are tallied, and the winner gets to theme of the next Jamcon.

Specific rules are as follows:

  • MYM and Smashboards rules still apply. Common sense.
  • The moveset must specifically be started during the Jamcon submission period - you can't post works that had any progress on their attack inputs, stat or mechanic write-ups. Intros, images, Final Smashes and Extras don't count, a little shortcut to note if you've got a draft with progress in any of those areas.
  • You do have to read and comment on every entry in order to vote. Even the Dodongos. Part of the purpose of Jamcons is to encourage mid-contest reading, after all.
  • Anyone who submits a nomination receives a 0.5 voter bonus on their set (nominations are worth 1 point). This is to encourage reading for anyone who is looking to win, and could mean the difference between a win in the case where two sets end up tied for points.
  • If two sets win, then all their authors win and they both get to decide the next theme. We're in a civil age of MYM, so that shouldn't be difficult at all. No Jamcon has historically produced double-winners (not counting joint sets), but that's not to say it couldn't happen...
  • Multiple Jamcon entries can be submitted. Extremely rare when working on just one set is strenuous, but it's not impossible for the stars to align if you're made up of raw time and inspiration. Or you use the raw power of joint-setting to piggyback with co-author with someone.
  • Jamcon sets can be funny and non-serious works, but they should still contain effort and not be straight-up joke sets. I don't think anyone would want to read or write a "X punches you and deals 999% for all their attacks" set in this day and age.
  • Sets can be edited during the submission period, but major edits are not allowed during the reading period. Minor edits like grammar, number changes, presentation and extras are allowed though. You'll have to wait until the Jamcon concludes if you want to make any big edits based on commentary you received.
  • Be sure to give indication that your moveset is a Jamcon entry, whether it's in your Smashboards post or somewhere in the moveset. There is a non-zero chance that people post non-Jamcon entries during the Jamcon period, so this is really to avoid confusion and let the host know that your moveset is an entry.

The theme for this month's Jamcon is...


TREASURE

This theme does have some overlap with the Money theme from earlier this contest, as treasure can be associated as a form of wealth, but in that case you can just treat this Jamcon as Money 2.0 if you've got a set idea for it. We could also associate Treasure with the Deep theme from last Jamcon, as treasure is typically buried deep beneath the ground or the ocean!

So, with those comparisons out of the way, Treasure can refer to...

  • Treasure hunters. We got Fang the Hunter, Indiana Jones, Venture and a pair of Knuckles this contest!
  • Even your average video game protagonist (like Crash Bandicoot) can fall under this, as characters like Mario and Link tend to find treasure/collectables or treasure chests throughout their journey. Characters who don't actively seek treasure but find it through sheer luck, can qualify too, like Maple.
  • The character guards or hoards treasure. Knuckles also qualifies here, since he guards the Master Emerald, and even the Phantom Shadow as they chase people off to keep a treasure (money) for themselves. Also Tamatoa, Hoarding Bug and Treasure Knight.
  • The character is an actual treasure themselves - Suisen is literally a living Infernal Treasure. You could also tackle an RPG mimic or even the Treasures of Ruin from Pokemon Scarlet and Violet.
  • The treasure does not have to be physical or wealth-based! It could be a character who is treasured by other people... like, uhhh, Regina George being held in high esteem by her friends and the school?
  • Could also be a character who treasures their friends and the connections they have, like Guts.
  • The character has a vague association with treasure, like pirates or Dhelmise.
  • The character is associated with a collectable medium that makes them treasured in real life. For instance, Ice Master was released as a Secret Rare (the highest rarity) for her TCG debut in the Duelist Genesis, while Friedrich der Große is one of the strongest and thereby most sought-after units in Azur Lane. Even Voyager can qualify, since he's a Limited Servant and thereby more treasured than non-limited SSRs.
  • A character from a game or media that revolves around physical or metaphorical treasure, like the aforementioned Pokemon Scarlet and Violet.
  • It could be a character or a franchise that you personally treasure, or otherwise something that holds important meaning for you. For instance, Ed for Brazillian Guy. Or you could just make a moveset for one of your favourite characters or franchises. Easy.
  • Gameplay-wise, your moveset could involve your character seeking some sort of "treasure", be it literal or metaphorical. For instance, they have to build up a meter or what not to gain access to some kind of big resource, like a really powerful item, minion, buff or projectile. It could also be some kind of object/item that they hoard for some reason, should you want to channel old movesets like King Ramses, Fright Knight or Dr. Facilier from MYM11.

You can probably see why I specifically picked this theme to cap off MYM27, given I only linked to sets from this contest. We can never have too many treasure-themed characters or whatnot in a contest that already has treasure-hunting as one of its core plot points! Or at least in its hypothetical story mode.
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
137
What does it mean to lose your humanity? Is it merely becoming a monster? Or is it losing the ideals that you have maintained your whole life even when the world declares they are meaningless? Such questions are one that the subject of this document is all too familiar with - having lost all the people close to her on multiple occasions, been saved from death by a monster, and forced to break one of the great taboos in order to survive. Yet through it all, in spite of all the hardships...

She always treasured her humanity.

(Jamcon 3 set)
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Australia
Seeing Seras get a moveset in the same contest as Alucard rocks. I’m fond of your take on the Jamcon’s treasure theme “Seras treasures her humanity”, and Seras being opposite to Alucard stat and moveset-wise. It’s the type of moveset that’s easier to appreciate if you’ve already read Alucard, but the design notes at the end of the Specials mean you can do so even if you haven’t read Alucard.

The Alucard comparison is immediately apparent from Seras’s powerful Neutral Special projectile - I wonder if Seras’s overly-long gun is a hitbox during Neutral Special, or whether it’s a blind spot right in front of her. The latter would be interesting if it was the case. Down Special is worth mentioning for its fun aesthetic, where your attacks cause your opponents to spray blood on hit like you’re turning Smash into a more violent fighting game. While Seras is intended to be an Alucard parallel, her Specials feel more appealing and substantial: Neutral Special is a big powerful projectile, and Side Special’s Ridley-like nature works surprisingly well off of it when it gets stronger over more terrain and Seras prefers to sit back and shoot her big gun. Down Special also adds extra substance and characterization as Seras embraces brutality during her buffs. Up Specials caps off these Specials by being a fun mobility mix-up tool alongside her other Specials.

  • Almost thought that Forward Smash was going to be a straight-up projectile attack with high pre-charge and low post-charge, not unlike what I did for Cordelia.
  • I like that Blood Rage’s buffs encourage and reward Seras for going on the offensive and cornering opponents, as shown with the optional second of hit U-Smash that is deadly near the ledge. This set’s characterization is surprisingly great, where Seras plays more “defensively” at the corner but can flip to brutal offensive play when the Blood Rage flip is switched.
  • Down Smash continues the Tern Tradition of “area that can be moved left or right” much like Remilia, Reisen and Kefka.
  • Wasn’t expecting a tipper grab with multiple throw options on a Down Tilt, but it’s fun. I like hitgrabs that have some sort of alternate effect if they hit a foe who has grab immunity, as well as the individual buffs each option gets from Blood Rage.
  • Neutral Air is primarily cool for having two characters perform separate attacks simultaneously, which is not something we see in a lot of movesets.
  • Back Throw is a fun little projectile option.

Much as I like seeing you do cartoon characters for Jamcons, I have never heard of this franchise and it looks and sounds genuinely good. Girl who treasures her father (and finds treasure chests in her game) more than qualifies for the Jamcon.

  • There’s something refreshing about a projectile Neutral Special that’s more effective than usual in exchange for burning through meter on each use, with a tapped version for opening up opponents and a held version for KO’ing them. 8 frames of end lag for the tapped version might be too little though - maybe 15 or 18 at most? Still enough end lag that opponents can punish you reasonably if they’re close enough.
  • Side Special is another nice little move, a movement attack that pops foes up to start Aerial combos. Reflecting projectiles on a movement attack so you can pressure your opponent with their own projectile also rocks, good job for acknowledging that here. Meanwhile, Aerial Side Special is effectively an anime fighter air dash on steroids, but it’s not instant unlike them.
  • Fun and unexpected Down Special buff where Arum receives benefits if she stays in lingering winds for long enough. I assume this is a thing in her game?
  • Death’s Scythe Forward Tilt.
  • While it’s a bit random that Down Tilt uses your wind buff (even though it was foreshadowed in Down Special), it’s a fun idea to use your well-earned buff for something powerful.
  • Neutral Air is a simple but effective move with shorthopping and air dashing. All the Aerials are good, really - this set might have my favourite set of Aerials among your sets, thanks to air dash and this moveset being aware of their implications and remembering Down Special buffs.
  • Up Air is a fun little juggling tool with your jumps + slowed parasol descent, though I don’t think that it and U-tilt should be able to casually delete projectiles from above - maybe only weaker ones?
  • Down Throw is a neat little twist on proning D-throws, where it leaves you in a position to follow up with your aerials instead of on the ground.
  • “While the range is quite good for the attack being comparable to Joker’s Final Smash, it’s motion and frame data are more comparable to something like Ike’s Forward Smash, although it lacks a bit of the damage that the Swordman has.” Comparing a Forward Smash to a Final Smash is admittedly funny, even though I assume you meant Joker's Forward Smash.
  • I like the little consistent Sin expenditure you can do with all of Arum’s Smashes (gets more out of sin beyond “spend it on Specials), and the fact that Forward Smash can benefit a lot from your wind. Kind of reminds me of Buzz Buzzard’s Smashes.
  • More doodles are welcome. It’s funny to imagine all the characters you’ve made sets for interacting with each other.

Arum is handily my favourite Jamcon set of yours and not that far from Ed, which is saying something when Buzz Buzzard felt like a solid improvement over Joe and Grim + Gnarly. She ended up being a surprisingly solid contender for quickly she was made, and I think it’s because she has a solid set of Specials and mechanics and no real pitfalls or unsubstantial major inputs. Reading the conclusion section, I’d say the more simplistic way you handled Ducroak was better than your stance idea, partly to keep things simple. Was nice to hear about this game anyway, and good of you to make use of the Jamcon to get people to read it (reading on non-Jamcon/opening day sets has been pretty slack this and last contest, hoping it doesn’t lead to people skipping over Ed).
 
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Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Australia
Jamcon 3's submission period has been extended to a full week. People are needing more time, and KholdStare suggested extending Jamcons to last a week rather than 4 days. That idea has been well-received in the Discord chat, so I thought it was worth trialing right now rather than waiting for the next Jamcon.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Australia
Good to see your 6-7k sets back in form! In who is essentially the Kecleon of Hades, Charon’s Neutral Special reminds me of Iroha’s Side Special - a projectile that spawns from the blast zone behind you. Or from a blast zone in any direction! This makes the move quite cool and creative, and it gets some nice mileage out of Charon’s Down Special auto-reflecting construct. Projectiles that spawn away from the user (and travel towards them) are fun, and something I’d be game to see more of. Side Special being a simple (but effective) context-sensitive projectile, and from there Charon packs a lot of far-reaching and sometimes powerful oar-based moves, carving out a niche as a fighter who prefers mid-to-long range combat. The throws end the set on a pretty fun note, with B-throw/U-throw’s DI mix-up, D-throw being very MYM’ian and F-throw being a repositioning tool that pauses your projectiles while you’re rowing, right down to some interesting details like not losing a stock if you carry your opponent into the blast zone.

I don’t have too much to glean here compared to my usual comments, but I get the impression that Charon was made super fast (less than a day?) and naturally wouldn’t have the same cooking time as Knull from 2 Jamcons ago. He does feel less compelling and innovative than Cu or your previous Jamcon sets - not going too in-depth with the classic projectile-manipulation genre, and his inputs don’t quite feel as creative after the Neutral Special. This isn’t meant to be a dig against you though, as Cu and Citizen V were very, very good sets for their length. Charon was still a fun set though, one that’s worth the read and contributes in his own right.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Australia
This is a cool-looking set right off the bat. Not only is it our first real Pikmin set, which is odd when Olimar and the Pikmin franchise have been around since the inception of MYM, the presentation rocks and reminds me of a Junahu moveset. And darth meanie’s old Rider moveset, with the way moves are presented. I’m going to keep this set’s presentation in mind for myself, because messing with tables in google docs is fun.

The set itself is naturally reminiscent of Olimar, except the President invests only in Purple Pikmin that are lost forever once they’re killed (but are invulnerable if they’re not being used for attacks). Neutral Special’s (general) use as a more complex version of Olimar’s Down Special has some funny-ness where tapping or holding the button is largely based on what type of sound effect you want from President’s horn command. I’m fond of Neutral Special’s command introducing President’s ship as part of a currency mechanic, then immediately segueing into his Up Special after having introduced the ship. The recovery itself is simple, much like Olimar’s Specials, but there’s a charm to how erratic and unreliable it can be as an offensive tool - and even mess him up if he gets too ambitious with his mine while offstage.

My mind immediately thought “1000 pokos to upgrade your ship is a lot”, only to remember that 1 frame = 1 poko thing is per Pikmin, so President would gain 300 poko per second with all 5 Pikmin and would only take like 3.5 seconds to fully upgrade his ship, at the cost of leaving his Pikmin vulnerable and having to go Nolimar on his opponents to defend them. Fun resource management. The Smashes are very old-school MYM’ian: all rely on pokos to use, and your ship’s position, and function more like props and constructs than the more conventional attacking Smashes in modern MYM (unless your ship is following you). F-Smash in particular is interaction-heavy and can be used to upgrade your Pikmin, as well as have them swarm over your opponent without your consent - letting you do things like whip out a Down Special bomb and blow them all up with it. I -think- Up Smash is a bit vague in how it buffs your Pikmin numbers-wise, and I assume it’s a one-time deal in spite of monetary constructs being limited only to your money count.

  • B-air is fun for its big shieldpush, which is only fair when the late hit is hard to land when the earlier hits are unsafe on block.
  • The strength of President’s Aerials compliments his largely non-lethal Smashes, and the swarming capabilities of his Pikmin. I like the President’s twist of his D-air using multiple Pikmin for a big mean attack, as opposed to only using one for each attack.
  • This set’s writing has a ton of personality. While I don’t normally compare movesets to existing Smash sets, the grab game and animations feel like a notable improvement over Olimar’s - like President’s Pikmin hanging their heads in disappointment if they whiff their grab, and President doing some of the heavy lifting for the throws compared to Olimar’s more vague throwing animations. U-throw has a funny little animation against enemies that might qualify as treasure (I could imagine it playing out against Suisen), and D-throw ends the grab on a fun note as a unique cargo carry that allows President to go Nolimar/Smashes on his opponents… while they can’t act!
  • The 3 images displayed side-by-side for President’s Jab reminds me of something you’d see on a Wiki, or the official Smash websites.

While President isn’t as conceptually high or ambitious as other Jamcon entries, his set manages to be a solidly-executed package for the short time it was made, thanks to its awareness and 3-way split between attacks that use the Pikmin, your ship and the President pulling his own weight.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Australia
With the week up, Jamcon is closed! We didn't get too many entries this time around, so I assume people are working on latecomers or just preserving their energy for the last stretch of the contest. Here are the contenders:
  1. Seras Victoria by Arctic Tern
  2. Arum by Brazillian Guy
  3. Charon by n88
  4. The President by Slavic
  5. Yggdroid by Usershadow7889
Reading is pretty short this time around, so you have two weeks to read and comment and nominate for your favourite set. I was going to extend the reading period to be indefinite, since this will probably be our last Jamcon this contest (we're approaching 75 sets, and the contest will likely end a month from then and people will probably want to work on last-minute entries), but reading is light enough that we probably don't need big extensions.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Australia
I didn’t think you’d actually tackle this character for this Jamcon, but I’m very glad you did because it means we now have 2 Etrian Odyssey movesets. Just one more EO moveset until it’s a franchise.

It’s bold of you to give the Yggdroid passive immunity to status effects, but I don’t dislike it here. Allowing enemy effects to still activate if they’ve applied enough stacks of their status effect is a good call, and Virus Scan is faithfully balanced out by making the Yggdroid’s moveset intentionally gimmicky! We’ve had no shortage of gimmicky movesets throughout MYM, but there’s a real charm to one that is blatantly self-aware of it. I like the synergy between Neutral Special’s tapped and held versions right off the bat, where the tapped version’s self-damage feeds into the held version getting stronger the more damage you have. The tapped version starts out with a paragraph that describes its animation in a satisfying way. HP Cannon has an interesting risk factor where it gets stronger but progressively slower as your damage rises, with said risk being more notable when you can only fire off those stronger versions when you have high damage. I find it funny that both Yggdroid and Ninja have a Neutral Special with both a tapped and held version; the former dealing self-damage and can allow the held version to snowball to deadly effect. Also fond of Yggdroid’s HP Cannon being able to scale to an absurd degree, which is only fair when it’s tied to a Falcon Punch-tier move. I could see scenarios where the 30-90% versions end up being the most feasible for Yggdroid to land, resulting in players holding off using Overheat to prevent their damage from rising too high.

Side Specials continues with the fun Specials in a construct that automatically fires a weak projectile when one of your hits lands, supplementing the fact that some of Yggdroid’s attacks can be slow and impractical. I particularly like that it gives the faster but weaker HP Cannon a legitimate use, and that the projectile can naturally be delayed relative to the foe’s distance to the bot. And of course, the reflector and being able to reflect your own Neutral Special projectiles towards your opponent is fun - fascinating that this can only be done with stages 2 and 3 and not the beam from the final stage for obvious reasons - at the cost of Reflector having some start-up and thus not being super casual to throw out.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to list Down Special before or after the Smashes? Or after Up Special? It’s also a little bit confusing which part of Down Special is meant to represent what skills are listed in the name, unless the body part detaching is meant to represent multiple Yggdroid skills. Other than those concerns, I’m all for a modern moveset embracing the Skeleton genre of detaching their body parts, of which the non-Specials tend to focus on, especially when they can be combined with your bots’ Reflector (I wonder if detached parts should avoid blocking projectiles so Yggdroid can’t casually use them as a shield against stuff like Charge Shot?). After this, Up Special has the compelling application of offering Yggdroid a powerful burst offensive in exchange for compromising its recovery, and being a R.O.B-style recovery means you won’t always have a consistent recovery.

Going off on a brief tangent here: I like that Down Special’s counter variant comes out later than usual for a counter, but it kind of feels like a case where listing frame data might help to sell its slow start-up. Dae’s Lord Cyber set actually plays around with a counter with abnormally slow start-up (and weak active frames + end lag iirc) with the trade-off of having grab immunity, just something to note if you do get around to reading after the submission period.

  • Was not expecting Down Smash to be Kirby’s Up Throw on a non-throw. I like that Overheat is a bigger double-edged sword with this input than usual, thanks to enhancing the bury duration but also making you take more damage during the move’s animation. It’s admittedly a bit weird that Down Smash detaches Yggdroid’s legs when they aren’t really used to attack in the move, but it’s not a big deal, especially when we get a fun move out of it.
  • There’s something weirdly appealing about U-Smash being so strong early but being weaker the later you hit with its rising hitbox due to being a multi-hitting attack. The damage might be a bit too high given it has pretty quick start-up - Smashes on your sets tend to do pretty high damage, which are normally justified when they’re often slow.
  • Jab is naturally a good use of your detached body parts mechanic.
  • D-tilt’s Peach-esque downwards knockback gets good use out of the skeleton mechanics. U-tilt also gets a good amount from its head swing and semi-spiking hitbox that can KO early from interesting detach placements.
  • N-air is surprisingly short, which is actually refreshing! I wonder if it might be one of the later inputs you wrote, but the set isn’t losing any points for it anyway.
  • F-air is cool for its boomerang properties, being a power move earlier on and a combo-starter if it hits late, and its return can be delayed with detachment. Kind of reminds me of Hina’s set.
  • D-air is a very neat and involved aerial, thanks to its widespread hitbox and the versatility in detaching your legs.
  • U-air is simple, but its reverse sex kick hitbox makes it a versatile juggling option to go with your detached head among your Up Special.

Yggdroid ended up being another very solid Jamcon set, much better than Mursasa but slightly lower than Phantom Shadow for me. I think the latter was a bit more consistently interesting, but Yggdroid’s Neutral Special and arguably Specials and mechanics in general had a bit more appeal.

Jamcon nomination goes to Yggdroid!
 

BrazilianGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
45
Ay, Jamcon am I right??? (will update with the other 2 when I read them)

Still haven't seen Hellsing, but I'm glad to see more movesets from it, specially on the same MYM. Sera does one thing I really adore which is having certain attacks that are callbacks to Alucard, very fitting due to how close they are, and it adds a ton since you're the one who did Alucard, love the callbacks they are all very clever like the distinction between Alu's small gunshots compared to her big shot, neat stuff that some of my favorite Smash sets do (King K. Rool being a parallel to DK). As always your sets always feel very technical, like you know your stuff, even making the pummel have some utility in it, never saw it as a way to refresh your stale moves, very interesting knowledge. I like how her Neutral Air plays off the fact she technically has 2 characters, I did something similar in my Grim and Gnarly set and is a very fun concept. Other attacks I really enjoyed were Down Tilt, Jab, the ridiculously powerful Forward Smash, and her Down Special which not only works as a cool parallel to Alu but also a cool buff. At first I found 1 minute a bit much, but considering all the foe needs to do is throw her to get it off sounds fine. For a Jamcon entry Seras is hella cool and has a ton of depth to her while still keeping things mostly simple, give her a SmokingArmBF/10


Pog character choice, I still wanna play Hades myself, but I watched plenty of videos on it so it's cool to see Charon show up. I also feel like he could maybe help Arum through story mode, the whole traveling and with the souls to the underworld, Arum looking for her dad's soul, and different cultures but would be a fun interaction! The boat also makes me think of him interacting with Angler. I'll say I love when a zoner has cool projectile manipulations, and the Down Special in specific makes me think of Pac-Man's hydrant, a good comparison. Just the amount of things he could get with reflecting the skulls, the wave, and how it plays with the detonation of the Jar with Down Special is really interesting, as well as giving him other bonuses such as extensions. Other moves that play with the Skulls and projectile reflecting like Forward Tilt, Down Smash, Down Tilt, and Neutral Aerial are also highlights, giving him a very unique zoner playstyle where I could almost see him doing ping pong with his Side Special's Wave and keep hitting an enemy in the middle of him and his jar. I do think other attacks are fairly simple like Jab for example, but others like Back Air and the Satysfing Bonk and the Down Air having a function that's just there for the funny, that I like. It's a shame that there are no extras, and I laughed at the Final Smash's description (Forward Throw is also based btw) but I'm glad he'll get a proper one later. I like Charon, he's clearly a product of Jamcon time but it's hella cool and creative with moves that seem simple. A Skull/10


Let's get the main thing out of the way, I don't like how Olimar plays in Smash Bros and find it a detriment to his character, very mild take I know, and this comes from a guy who only ever watched Let's Plays of Pikmin, however, I do wanna get 4 as it looks really peak from what I've heard. I bring this up mainly to say I think I prefer President's moveset over Olimar's actual Smash moveset. Not only is the whole thing really fun and entertaining to read in a very unique writing style, but the moveset is also unique despite taking a lot of what worked from Olimar's moves, makes sense since it is THE President we're talking about. Only having Purples is fun, gives him access to big powerful moves like Down Aerial, and being able to actually place them to do tasks and have real-time strategy in this real-time strategy character is so great. I like how the Pikmins themselves have more personality by running from explosions and little details in moves like Up Air, btw why is Pikmin Feet a sweetspot????? Only thing I'd complain about the Pikmans is that I do feel he could get them with more reliability, I saw other comments mentioning this too but feels like Pres would be really in a pickle if he lost all Pikmins as he also can't get Pokos. Pokos are also handled really well and translate a fun aspect of Pikmin 2 (I see Arum's treasure being a taegeuk/yin yang symbol made of stone). Also, Jab is a stand-out move for giving a character who won't always have a Smash Attack a way to fill that role of his moveset. Also also, I wish there were extras, Pres is such a goofball, and would love to see more of his goofy expressions and rambles. I liked Pres a ton, especially for a Jamcon moveset, he gets a Million Pokos/10 from me.
 
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Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Australia
Every now and then, older setmakers with indulge and celebrate their anniversaries in MYM, otherwise known as ("MYM'er" Day). I am not big on indulging or drawing attention to myself, but I thought I should make an exception when anniversary is a bit more special.

Today marks 15 years since I posted my first moveset in MYM5, way back in 2009 on May the 22nd. Half my lifetime later, and I've managed to accumulate 142 movesets. You might think that one could produce ten times that many works within 1.5 decades, but sets have gotten increasingly longer, and inspiration from writing them comes and goes! With this milestone in mind, I announce this May 22 to be Kat Day!

Celebrated by the likes of Froy, FA and Slavic in the recent past, MYM'er anniversaries are typically periods where the MVP makes a piece about their anniversary and compliments it with a set or two. These anniversaries are announced in advance, and other setmakers have the choice to post a moveset for a franchise or otherwise something they're associated with. The list of franchises I've covered is pretty extensive, though to be fair most of the picks are for random animes that I wouldn't visit again. People are welcome to whip up something belated, though I imagine most people will be focusing on their final work(s) for the last stretch of the contest.

I'd like to say that I've stockpiled modern movesets for the 10 or so franchises that I've been (to my perspective) historically associated with...
  • Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo
  • Lucky Star
  • Disgaea
  • Leviathan: The Last Defense
  • Mugen Souls
  • Atelier
  • Yu-Gi-Oh!
  • Fate/Grand Order
  • BOFURI
  • Blue Archive
But I have nothing of the sort whipped up. Maybe another time! Instead, I just have one set for everyone. Enjoy, and good luck with your own setwork!
 
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Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
137
SAYU (Kat)

Sayu is another Kat Ninja Girl™ who, like Ninja before her, has heavy emphasis on evasion. Unlike the prior set, Sayu’s actual stats aren’t good for evasion since she’s lazy, but to make up for it she’s very short and has much better dodges than any other character with the ability to cancel attacks from them, plus intangibility frames on her very fast initial dash. However, these cost stamina, a fitting Genshin mechanic to give her since her laziness is a defining character trait, which she can regain with a special crouch special where she goes to sleep. Certain attacks also gain a boost if Sayu has full stamina, so she’s encouraged to wait until her stamina is full before she can properly start her assault again.

As befitting an evasion-based set, Sayu’s gameplay has heavy emphasis on maneuverability and punishing the foe. This is best exemplified with her SSpec, which can either be a laggy but powerful kick or a rolling move that gives her a boost in speed and knockback resistance, enabling for strong burst approach options. USpec also works well for the maneuverability focus, either being a glide that vastly increases her air speed or a tornado that creates a windstream that buffs her jumps. Sayu can also control space with her NSpec, which summons a Daruma that emits a damaging pulse if she enters a specific area, which she can also disguise herself as with DSpec to hide her naps or the charge times of her smashes. Her grab plays an interesting role in her gameplan as being incredibly easy to land thanks to its speed, with the throws enabling various panic situations (such as creating a tornado under the opponent with DThrow) that enable her to land her bigger hits.

The other part of Sayu’s gameplay is her claymore attacks, which are typically very slow to start but very hard to punish if not interrupted. This is not just due to low endlag, but also the fact that she can expend stamina to teleport away from the foe on hit, or if certain conditions are met teleport to the foe to extend her combos and get around what would otherwise be a poor combo game. Sayu gets a good bit of mileage out of this, from a slow NAir that covers immense range and serves as an incredibly safe mobility option if she lands during it to more than one attack hitting the foe behind her to exploit the mechanics of her cancels. Her smashes are a particular highlight, with FSmash dragging the foe towards her and USmash having a precise hitbox that buries the foe on hit that can be canceled out of for a free punish. While normally the slow startup would make landing these seem unviable, Sayu has enough means of mixing up her movement, dodging away from attacks, and disguising whether or not she’s even going for her big moves that she probably could land them from sheer pressure alone, combined with the fact that she does have attacks with more normal lag to play a proper neutral game. I do think that some moves may need to be toned down a little in terms of startlag (and it irks me that the length of the claymore is never actually stated), but most of the moves are fine when everything else is considered.

While Sayu as a whole isn’t as “weird” as Ninja from a mechanics/moves perspective, Sayu still has a unique take on a weapon and enough mechanics in her own right to edge out a solid spot in my rankings. Perhaps this is the real secret to getting taller?

Link to full comment repository here!
 
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