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Make Your Move 27: Jamcon 1 Comments In-Bound. Knuckles & Knuckles: REAL! Golbat & Miraidon Celebrate Pokémon Day

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,525
WELCOME TO MAKE YOUR MOVE 27!

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Make Your Move (MYM, to the regulars) is a moveset-writing contest with its roots in the pre-Brawl era of Smashboards! Since those halcyon days, people have come to MYM to answer the eternal question: what would it look like if I got to put my blorbo in Smash?

MYM is all about the hypothetical, so there's no rule about plausibility and character choice! We're happy to hear out a moveset idea whether you're pitching Waluigi or Walter White. Anime characters? Original characters? Mythological deities? A cool guy you met on a bus in Niagara Falls once, and sadly never again? It's all fair game.

Typically, MYM movesets are written with the latest and greatest Smash game in mind - that's Ultimate if you've been out of the loop. Movesets for older Smash games or even Project M are allowed if the fancy strikes you, though!

Whatever your character and engine of choice, if you're willing to write a little about how that moveset idea might work, this could be the thread for you!

MYM Overview
What's In a Moveset?

The technical stuff we're after in a moveset is:​
  • A Stats Section [ Movement | Size | Weight | any unique mechanics | etc.]
  • 4 Special Moves [ Neutral | Down | Side | Up ]
  • 5 Standard Attacks [ Jab | Dash Attack | Forward Tilt | Down Tilt | Up Tilt ]
  • 3 Smash Attacks [ Forward | Down | Up ]
  • 5 Aerial Attacks [ Neutral | Forward | Back | Up | Down ]
  • 6 Grab-Game Inputs [ Grab | Pummel | Forward Throw | Back Throw | Down Throw | Up Throw ]
That's 23 inputs in total!​

You can list these in whatever order you want. Many people have their own style and preferences about how to curate the experience for readers, but moves are almost always grouped together into the sections bullet-pointed above.​
Most movesets list Special moves first, since their unique properties often tie a moveset together as a "core" and can be relevant to the rest of the moves. For example, Shulk's Monado Arts change up how the rest of his moves are used, so it'd be helpful to know about that from the jump.​
If you're writing a moveset in Google Docs (as folks tend to do these days), here's a handy [ TEMPLATE ] you can use that includes all the essentials. If you're signed into Docs, just hit File > Make a Copy to snag your own copy of that.​

Other optional things you might want to include in a set:​
  • Image of the character [ Recommended! ]
  • Intro writeup for the character [ Recommended! ]
  • Final Smash [ Recommended! ]
  • Taunts
  • Situational Attacks [ Ledge Attack | Getup Attack ]
  • Extras [ Home Stage | Alternate Costumes | etc. ]
    • Feel free to invent your own extras or include ones from older Smash games!
    • Break the Targets, Custom Specials, Custom Taunts, whatever you like. Go nuts.
Having trouble writing a set? Just post in the thread or DM one of the five Leaders listed later in this post! We're always happy to check out WIP sets and provide feedback. :)

Submitting Movesets

In olden times, movesets were most always submitted by posting right in the thread itself! You still that sometimes. See an example here.​
A good number of MYMers host movesets offsite these days though, for the sake of easier word processing and more control over presentation. Google Docs is the most commonly-used software for that sort of thing. Just drop a link to your moveset in the thread and you're good to go, that's a submission! You can toss in an image or text intro if you're feeling extra and you'd like to give it a little flair (like here or here).​
Commenting

"Famous writers got to where they are due to reading a large amount of literature, and it’s the same with movesets. Commenting forces you to articulate that knowledge and put it to word; the helpfulness of this exercise cannot be overstated."
Movesets aren't the only kind of writing that sustains MYM. Everybody likes to know their creative work is finding an audience, yeah? When you read someone's work, try to drop the writer a line to let 'em know. Even leaving a "Like" on the set or just saying "I liked it" is something, so don't feel it's not worth taking the time because you don't have much to say!​
Of course, you might not always like the sets you read. It happens! Leaving negative feedback is fine. Just keep it constructive and don't be discouraging; it's fine to be hard on movesets as long as you're going easy on people. If you'd like to write more comments but find yourself struggling with it, you may find this article on writing comments helpful.​
To emphasize the importance of reading and commenting, readers are required to post [ at least 10 Comments ] throughout the contest in order to vote. Reading a lot can be daunting, but you'll be a much stronger and more informed setmaker if you rise to the challenge. You'll learn how setmakers roll, and you might even get inspiration for your own work.​
Ranking

Many comentors will form their own [ Rankings ] - taking the movesets they've read and ranking them from strongest to weakest. You'll see different users' linked here and there in the thread or on Discord. Some ranking-inclined folks use ten-star systems, some five, and some are more qualitative.​
Whatever the system, this is typically just a way for that user to clarify their opinions on movesets and advertise what their votes will be at the end of the contest. It's a completely optional exercise. Feel free to either make your own, or retain the mystique of not publicizing your votelist.​

Jamcons

A concept originated by Kholdstare in MYM24, Jamcons are monthly mini-contests. These little shots in the arm are designed to give the longer MYM contest a few extra, shorter movesets and encourage commenting. A participant has 4 days to write and submit a moveset that adheres to the Jamcon's theme.​
After that, readers - whether they posted a submission or not - have 2 weeks to comment on every entry, then nominate their favorite entry. The most-nominated entry wins, and the winner gets to choose the theme for the next Jamcon.​
Jamcon submission periods are typically Friday to Tuesday (Pacific Time), which is the weekend for most people. The first Jamcon of a contest often starts two weeks after the contest opens, to give time for people to read the opening movesets first. The exact timing of all this is up to the discretion of previous Jamcon's winner, though.​

Contest's End

MYM25 and MYM26 were both absolutely insane contests. After MYM25 hit a whopping 146 movesets over the course of six months, MYM26 shortened the submission period by nearly two months and still got itself 125 sets. Y'all should be proud and/or ashamed.​
We're playing things a little cautiously this time around to avoid committing to too big a submission window, so we're not setting a specific end date for the contest just yet. Instead, when it looks like the contest is getting full (likely using the 100-moveset mark as a metric), we'll set an end date. Expect about a month's notice ahead of the end date, so that you can finish up anything you're in the middle of.​
Whenever that may be, once the closing date rolls around, MYM27 stops accepting new movesets and we enter a reading period: a little window for prospective voters to catch up on sets they missed and whatever insanity went down at the end of the submission period.​
Movesets can also be edited during the reading period, but we've got a strict "No Dodongos" clause this time around: a moveset needs to be reasonably considered finished by the submission deadline in order to be submitted. No templates that you edit up after the fact. And when I say "strict" I mean "please just be cool".​
After reading, it's on to the voting period itself. If a reader has posted at least ten comments, they can submit a votelist to the contests' Vote Gurus on Smashboards via DM. More on reading + voting deadlines and the Vote Gurus when the submission period ends. Voters have up to 44 Votes to use, each split into 3 types of varying strength:​
  • 8 Super Votes [ 9 Points ]
  • 16 Regular Votes [ 5 Points ]
  • 20 Weak Votes [ 2 Points ]
Some votes from each category can be upgraded into a [ Vote Plus ] (+), which is worth 1-2 extra points:​
  • 1 Super Vote Plus [ 11 Points ]
  • 3 Regular Vote Pluses [ 6 Points ]
  • 5 Weak Vote Pluses [ 3 Points ]
The Super Vote Plus (SV+) is typically awarded to your favorite moveset in the contest; be proud if you get any of these!​
To give you a general idea of what a votelist looks like, here are all the votelists from last contest. Forty-four votes might seem like a ton, but you will have to make hard choices, even so.​
For the egomaniac in the back with his hand raised.... no, you can't vote for your own movesets. C'mon, what are you trying to pull?​
The Top 50

The voting deadline hits and it's time for the Leaders to tally up all the votes, break the ties and pretty up the presentation. Then it's Top 50 time, baby: MYM's time-honored tradition is to close out the contest with a list of the 50 highest-voted sets as the honorable winners.​
Here's MYM26's Top 50, as an example! Feel free to check out the community's most recent batch of favorites there.​
Placing at all can be a bit of a struggle, and it gets downright competitive at the top, so know that there's no shame in placing low or missing the Top 50 outright. We strive to keep things at a "friendly competition" level and there are no real stakes here.​
When all's said and done, we shake hands (figuratively) and wait a couple weeks (literally) for MYM28.​
Beyond The Thread
MYM-Operated Communities and Sites

A lot of the activity in MYM lives on Discord [ LINK ]. The thread can only contain so much of our idle chatter, after all. On the Discord server you'll find plenty of conversation both on-topic and off. Whether you're looking for moveset discussion, you wanna talk video games, or you just like collecting Discord servers for access to emojis, please stop on by. We'll leave the light on for you.​
It's also worth mentioning our venerable Wordpress blogs:​
  • The Bunker [ LINK ]archives MYM's older works: moveset lists from previous contests, links to older MYM threads as well as MYM-related articles, which anyone is free to write if they have a Wordpress account. The home page contains handy links to "The MYM'er Encyclopedia" (a list of every set made by every relevant and modern setmaker, including more recent newcomers) and "Every Moveset listed by Franchise", which is handy if you want to see whether an existing character has had a moveset made for them.
    • You can also get some tips for starting out in MYM on this page.
  • The Stadium [ LINK ] displays an up-to-date list of every moveset that's been posted in MYM's current contest. It also, on lesser occasions, is used to post Top 50 and raw vote data from a contest when it ends, as well as announce a change of Leadership.
Unaffiliated Resources

UltimateFrameData [ LINK ] hosts a wealth of technical details about characters in Smash Ultimate, including frame-by-frame hitbox visuals for darn near every attack in the game! They're an outstanding reference point for just how strong and fast real moves actually are.​
The Smash Wiki [ LINK ] is a pretty rich vein as well. It offers similar technical data, on top of more definitions of Smash jargon, trivia, and various formulae that keep Smash running under the hood.​
Redditor u/Nachowcheese has created an absurdly exhaustive spreadsheet [ LINK ] with KO percentages and trajectories for each of Ultimate's attacks, as experienced by the middling Mii Swordfighter from the center of Final Destination.​
Art of Smash [ LINK ] is a video series by Izaw about the intricacies of how Smash 4 is played. "Smash 4?" you might be asking yourself. "Wouldn't that be dated? Unless I was specifically writing for Smash 4 like the OP of MYM27 said I could do?" you might further be wondering. Never fear! Izaw also has an ongoing sequel series called Art of Smash Ultimate: [ LINK ]
In either series, the expansive list of character-specific videos are a great resource; seeing how real characters work is great for inspiring your own ideas! Maybe most importantly, the videos put a strong emphasis on "playstyle": how a character's toolkit flows together into a cohesive gameplan. Understanding this concept is essential for success in MYM!​
Leadership

The [ Leaders ] are a handful of senior members that moderate the community when needed, and also make decisions about when to set deadlines and things. Most of these folks have been hanging around MYM for a decade or so (maybe with some breaks).​


KupaUSn88FroySlavic
The Leaders are:​
  • BKupa666
    • Class of MYM3 | Into King K. Rool, Breaking Bad, Donkey Kong Country, King K. Rool
    • Superheavy aficionado | shadow-drop legend.
    • Writes big, bold movesets for big-name characters.
  • UserShadow7989 [ProfessorHawke on Discord]
    • Class of MYM5 | Into Yu-Gi-Oh, JoJo, RPGs both J and TT
    • Jamcon regular | original characters welcome.
    • Writes movesets with incredibly compelling design hooks.
  • n88
    • Class of MYM6 | Into Marvel Comics, Gundam, Heroscape
    • That's me, hi! | I'm just here to have a good time.
  • FrozenRoy
    • Class of MYM12 | Into most things worth mentioning
    • Swordie enthusiast | joint moveset king.
    • Writes fundamentals-focused and super technically savvy movesets.
  • Slavic
    • Class of MYM14 | Into Kill La Kill, Fire Emblem, Resident Evil
    • Dennis Nedry superfan | Shark Tale apologist | chaotic neutral character choices.
    • Writes clever and stylish movesets that are beautifully presented.
If you have questions or need help with anything MYM-related, feel free to reach out to any of these fine folks.

Rules
Make Your Move has [ RULES ], just like the rest of Smashboards. In the rare case where someone does break the rules, make sure you report them instead of replying to their post.



Now... y'all ready to Make Your Move?
 
Last edited:

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
121
As mentioned in the previous contest's last page, I have 6 sets stocked for opening day. Due to this, I'll be splitting them up for this week, two being posted at a time. Conveniently, half of them are smaller sets and half of them are bigger, more conceptually complex ones, so each of these posts will be have one small and one big set. For our first batch...

"If I'm a dog... then you're dog food."

"I wonder if you're properly repenting yet?"
 

GolisoPower

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
4,290
The shore was perfectly silent and still, save for the sound of rushing water and the sight of waves rushing up and down the shore like liquid lungs. These waves would intensify, however, with the arrival of a large ship. The first to disembark was a hunched figure with glowing orange eyes, a cane in his hand for balance.

Talbot Grimes had arrived.

“Right, everyone, we’re here,” the Blight said, his voice slightly gargled by the forced mutations on his body brought about by his serum.

The crew that followed suit were a varied bunch: a tall, muscular woman in pelts wearing a mask of wolf-bone, a hunched humanoid abomination with a metal construct on its shoulders, a curvaceous purple-haired girl who made sure not to capsize the ship with either her massive claws or her weight as she got off, and a biomechanical humanoid wearing a large cape that seemed to drift like a ghost.

“This island…I’m not sure what to think of it right now,” said the wolf-like woman, her eyes scanning the new land before her.

“But I do,” groaned the creature as it slowly followed her. The voice seemed to ring through the air as though disconnected from the creature. “After what he’s done, you would have this animal drag us along, Veronica? And to this island, no less?!

“I am aware of his background, Pyramid Head,” she said, glaring softly at the now-named Executioner, “but I don’t think we can afford any other choice but to trust Talbot.”

“His experiments were torture,” Pyramid Head growled. “His concoctions are liquid suffering. For all we know we could be his next test subjects! Do what you wish, but I refuse to follow a man who caused the deaths of countless people for his own gain-”

“That’s not really fair, you know,” the purple-haired girl piped in, clearly feeling nervous about tensions between ones who should be working together.

“How is it not fair,” the Executioner hissed as he whirled towards the girl. “Tell me, Passionlip, how can he be excused for his crimes?!”

“Even if he was being way too careless about his experiments, there was no way he could’ve known it would do that. He can atone for it either way because he feels guilty about it, right?”

Pyramid Head could only glare at the masochistic Alter Ego for a moment before huffing in frustration, silently and begrudgingly admitting that she had a point.

“In any case,” mused Veronica, “I have this feeling that whatever Talbot is looking for is something none of us are prepared for.”

“Veronica…is right…” rasped the ghost-like humanoid. “This island…holds…a powerful…shadow…”

“Ah, ye catch on quick, Sevagoth,” mused Talbot, pointing his cane at the ghostly Warframe. “Aye, we’re lookin’ for a shadow. A special one at that, much like your own.”

He motioned his cane in a “follow me” gesture, which his traveling companions followed curtly.

“So this is the ‘Withered Isle’,” pondered Veronica. “As I recall, this was a spot for the Fold.”

“‘The…Fold’,” asked Passionlip.

“T’was advertised as a community where peace and positivity reigned supreme in a time when America was in societal turmoil,” Talbot responded through his grunting from ascending a hill. “Effectively, it was their ‘Garden of Joy’.”

“It was…led by a man…called Otto Stamper,” chimed Sevagoth, the uttered name prompting Pyramid Head to almost lurch over in pure rage.

“Otto was the Fold’s charismatic leader,” explained Veronica. “He would teach his followers the ways of ‘joy-talk’, meditation, and ‘good-thinking’ mantras to recite endlessly. By all accounts, the community thrived through these methods.”

“That…almost sounds too good to be true,” said Passionlip, already suspicious of its foundation. “Living in a place where you don’t have to worry about the bad things sounds nice, but there has to be some kind of catch.”

“You would be correct in that assessment,” curtly growled Pyramid Head. “Because Otto Stamper was a heartless monster.”

“...I’m scared to ask how,” responded the Alter Ego.

“Well, I’d say it’s better to show than tell,” called back the Blight. “We’re here.”

The ruins of a once-thriving community bore nothing but wind and dust, its buildings decayed and beaten down by the vestiges of time. It had looked like nobody had been there for a long time, the vacancy of the town more anxiety-inducing and crushing than any cramped room. Blots of maroon stained the walls and streets, some walls and windows showing signs that it was torn apart through conflict. Passionlip could only bring her massive claws to her face as she absorbed the sight in horror.

“Now you see,” said Pyramid Head, noticing Passionlip’s barely hidden shock. “In truth, Otto Stamper was a manipulative tyrant who saw the Fold as nothing but an experiment. He would ‘banish’ malthinkers, in truth tortured and sacrificed them to an evil god. Members began to disappear, sowing dread and paranoia in their brothers and sisters, not helped by the decisions of Stamper. He in truth manipulated everything so the dam would break amongst its members. Despite everything, the ‘malthink’ was too much for even this quiet community and it quite literally tore them apart.”

“Oh my gosh,” squeaked Passionlip. “I…I don’t know what to say. Wh-why would he do this?”

“Because in truth, the creators of the Fold were cultists for that same god,” responded Veronica. “And this entire town was effectively their ritual.”

“What’s more,” sighed Talbot. “It was to sate his sick curiosity. It’s both frightenin’ and nauseatin’ how much of meself I can see in him.”

“The violence…he…incited…attracted something…even…greater,” rasped Sevagoth, “something…called…the Druanee…”

“Aye…it lives for negative emotions,” sighed Talbot. “It feasted on them like a vulture to carrion, growing with each body it siphoned their suffering from. It may even be still here on this island.”

“It was an abomination of Stamper’s creation,” rumbled Pyramid Head. “Fortunately, he was punished for his sins…ironically by one who surpassed him in pure depravity: his own student.”

Passionlip’s knees, slowly weakening from the horror in this story, gave out as her breathing became ragged and uneven. The group stopped immediately and turned to their friend, concerned for what had happened. She wordlessly hyperventilated in a panicked manner, tears threatening to escape her eyes as all she could do was look down at the ground in front of her as her thoughts and emotions began running rampant. After what felt like ages, she felt something on her shoulder. She whirled in fear towards the one touching her, looking into the proverbial eyes of Pyramid Head.

“It would be abnormal to not be sickened by this,” said the Executioner, his voice surprisingly gentle. “We know this community has suffered at the hands of that *******, and they continue to suffer even now at the hands of this Druanee…”

Passionlip couldn’t tell by looking, but she got the feeling Pyramid Head was now smiling in an affirming manner.

“But that is why we are here. To finally put the people of the Fold to rest.”

Looking up to the Executioner, Passionlip gave a soft smile, silently thanking him for the assurance. Just then, the air was pierced with the sound of painful moans and fearful crying.

“I-is that-,” asked Passionlip.

“I think so,” said Veronica. “Your fear and sadness…it’s attracted to them. Saves us some time finding it, at least.”

Everyone readied themselves, waiting for the source of the noise to slither out…until the sound of scraping wood accompanied the cacophony of suffering. They turned to see a large red box shaking in place, a black miasma leaking from the cracks. The five tensed, readying combat stances before the doors flew open, revealing the monster within.

Sprouting from a mountain of black sludge was what looked like a shapeless lump of flesh that looked as though human limbs and flesh fused together in an unholy manner. Its right arm appeared similar to a mantis, its hooked blade sharp despite its soft, fleshy appearance. Its left arm was shorter but thicker, held together by what looked like human hands sunken into the flesh. The head that sprouted from this large ball of flesh was misshapen, its singular empty eye staring down at the quintet with what looked like hunger.

With a low roar laced with the panicked shrieks of its victims, the ruined town was shrouded in darkness, leaving them to search for this abomination. They knew what they were dealing with, and that they had to defeat this monster or else…

…the Roots of Dread would hold them all in their grasp.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,246
Location
Australia
Got a comment doc this time around, which I'll add to throughout this contest. If you're wondering how a Tern set got commented within minutes of being posted, it's because I previewed it a few days ago.

Popping out a 30k-ish Azur Lane set on the heels of the series’ hugely successful debut set in New Jersey is no doubt a hype move, and really sets the standards of future Azur Lane sets all being in the 30k ballpark (not that they have to be).

“As a side note, Friedrich will never drown in “stage water”, as in water that is naturally on a stage such as Delfino Plaza or Pirate Ship. She is literally a boat, after all, designed for naval warfare. Friedrich can still drown in water created by other characters with specific drowning mechanics for the purposes of fairness, and since no stage with water is legal this only affects casual play.” It’s funny that you went out of your way to mention this, especially since there are practically zero modern MYM sets that create their own water to drown opponents with Smash’s drowning mechanics. It’s easy to forget that drowning is a thing in the Smash series.

Sonata of Chaos is an appealing mechanic right off the bat, as it effectively makes Fried a 2-in-1 character by cycling between different attacks for her odd and even attacks, the former weak and the latter slow but strong. This reminds me of Vania & Fatla in being forced to cycle between two movesets, but implemented in a way that the player will be working more closely with the two sets. Perhaps the set is more comparable to Fox Butler Aki in this sense, weaving between two different forms, but not relying on specific positioning or a construct to shift. Symphony of Destruction is an unconventional projectile and unique pseudo-counter with a cooldown - I can see the Azur Lane gameplay and gacha mechanic inspiration on this and NJ’s Neutral Specials, even if neither of these sets incorporate gameplay GIFs. It’s a simple but very, very effective move for Fried’s gameplay and circumventing some of her heavyweight weaknesses.

Side Special is another great move, being Din’s Fire where multiple reticules can be set, fired off in order and even be used to knock your opponent in any direction you please. You can knock your opponent into crosshairs one after the other to pile on damage, but I’m glad you didn’t go the “crosshairs deal progressively more damage if you hit with multiple in a row,” route, as doing so is insanely hard and niche as you imply. Fried can have multiple crosshairs and use them as traps, but if she places multiples of them she has to go through setting them all off, and in a specific order, so she can’t just litter the stage with a bunch of them and detonate any one of them freely. I also like the use of Shield Special to check where your crosshairs are and in which order they are set to go off, similar to Madame Verre’s stale mechanic. The move absolutely captures Fried’s status as a tactical genius, being very strong but still having its drawbacks if she gets too ambitious with her set-up. The only balance tweak I could suggest is making the omnidirectional knockback scale more slowly if you knock your opponent downwards or diagonally downwards, but it is not an issue as-is since the attack KOs so late.

Down Special is a more simple armour-based move that gets better when Fried’s damage percent gets higher. Knockback units are difficult to wrap my head around, since they feel too “invisible” to process as they aren’t used as a unit of measurement in MYM, but I suspect that the idea is for the units to scale so that Fried’s armour stays consistent with her damage percent and increasing vulnerability to knockback. Super armour on starting lag is fine, as Fried would be punishable during her end lag, but I could see it as being slightly oppressive - opponents would feel discouraged to attack Fried when she has tough guy armour and can causally armour their attacks, but they can’t back off because of projectiles + Side Special, and they can’t just shield because of her Neutral Special, unless it is in cooldown. Still, Down Special has a limited duration. If anything, I wonder if Fried’s damage-based super armour should be reduced to something like 14%, 28% and 48% instead of its current 25%, 50% and 75% - K. Rool’s Belly Armor has roughly 36HP and takes around a minute to recover fully (according to the Smash wiki), and I don’t think Fried would be armouring that much damage in practice. Again, not a big problem if the numbers don’t change.

Interesting to see that you throwing out designer notes like n88 did with Citizen V and NJ among other authors. Always interesting to see these.

  • P. F-Smash good shield damage > shieldbreak for F. F-Smash is good. The former might be a bit too effective at shield-breaking, since it comes out fast and has good range on top of Side Special crosshairs already dealing good shield damage.
  • This is going to sound hypocritical since I did flame trails in MYM25 and like to add extra effects onto my attacks, but I don’t think F. F-Smash needs the lingering flames. The flames are tame, but they still flinch on contact, and being able to camp inside of them adds an extra layer of oppression that I don’t think Fried needs. The move already has its raw power and range going for it.
  • P. U-Smash’s missile has a pretty cool and precise aiming scheme.
  • Looking at P. U-Smash’s synergy with Down Special armour, I sort of wonder whether Fried should not have super armour while she’s charging up her Smashes. I guess she can still be grabbed out of these moves, but still.
  • The V-1 and V-2 missiles being able to collide with each other for a powerful hitbox rocks.
  • I like the specific trivia behind pre-patch K. Rool bury on P. D-Smash. The bury works well with her kit, like F. U-Smash and the unique fact that she has a hard time getting knockback storage with her stronger F. attacks.
  • I like that the biting rigging consistently has a grab hitbox throughout the set, and the arrow that appears to determine which direction you launch your opponent. F. D-Smash is a strange move, being slow and not all that powerful knockback-wise, but that seems to be justified given its nature as a versatile set-up and knocking your opponent into your crosshairs. Being able to grab two opponents at once is fun, reminds me of MYM16 Groose and would be a neat idea in a tag team or minion set.

This is a really small thing, but between A.B.A and Freidrich, I noticed that the two have a select number of moves that are stated to deal horizontal knockback, like P. F-air for the latter, some of this knockback being pretty solid. I have generally assumed that “horizontal” means “knock the opponent to the sides” horizontally rather than pure, semi-spiking horizontal knockback, as the latter is very strong when it knocks an opponent off-stage and the moves don’t generally talk about that factor.

  • Making Jab 1 unaffected by or not altering Fried’s states is a very smart idea, as well as N-air later on. F. Jab 2 actually being a delayed hitbox is really wild for a Jab, it’s fun and reminds me of Potterie. I like that while the delayed bomb falls from the top of the screen, it doesn’t become active until it gets close to its target or the ground, so it can’t accidentally hit something else on the way down.
  • F. Dash Attack’s take on Ridley’s Side Special is very cool, dealing more knockback the further across the stage your opponent is dragged.
  • U-tilts have good synergy with each other.
  • B-air has some neat characterization trivia. Wouldn’t have picked up on that.
  • I like U-air’s dynamic of P. potentially setting up into F. well, and D-air’s dynamic of P. being a safe lander, but F. being a hard read and poor for disadvantage and landing.
  • Grab being a poor defensive option but having good mid-ranged presence plays into Fried’s strengths and weaknesses well.
  • P. F-throw being an optional and powerful (but not guaranteed) follow-up from the tech chase is neat.
  • F. F-throw’s burn effect is pretty extreme on shields given everything Fried already has, but I do like how it makes getting shield breaks easier for the weaker Pianissimo (even if stuff like Side Special crosshairs and P. F-Smash are already pretty powerful against shields).
  • P. B-throw’s multiple delayed hitboxes seem tame enough, since they are weak and you can grab Fried to stop them, and they are nice for combo-breaking. The throw has a cool risk/reward factor for targeted opponents - do they stay back and let the weak hits play out, or do they try to grab Fried and risk getting punished worse if they whiff?
  • I like vertical cargo throws where a separate entity carries the foe upwards, similar to Dhoulmagus’s U-throw in MYM16. It’s cool that the move has similar angling properties to P. U-Smash, so you can carry your opponent in pretty much any direction (except downwards I guess) to get precise with your traps and crosshairs.

It should go without saying that Fried appealed to me a lot more than A.B.A, and is easily one of the absolute best among your movesets. I think she has a tad much oppression going for her with her super armour and flame patches, but she is still stronger than your MYM26 entries imo and would have been a Super Vote in that contest. A very strong start to MYM27! Modern MYM has certainly proven than gacha movesets have huge potential for success: the right characters’ gameplay, skills and (hopefully) their powerset translate surprisingly well to a compelling Smash moveset. This gives authors a lot of freedom to interpret them and flex their creative muscles, but it’s also a test of their skills.

A return to the Dead By Daylight franchise and new entry to Goliso’s gallery of creepy eldritchs, I was curious how Dredge would fare compared to Blight - both utilize a similar concept of applying constructs to the stage by proxy, yet there is a 3+ year/contest gap between the two sets. I get your approach of wanting to emulate DBD’s gameplay by making the lockers spawn by default and not give the player control of their positions, a common theme among some of your older sets, but the mechanic does feel inherently intrusive and kind of forcing the game to play more like a round of DBD whenever the Dredge is in a match, whether the players want it or not. For future sets, I think that lockers and other such DBD gameplay-based constructs should be spawned by the character themselves - Dredge would arguably make more sense to spawn a locker than most of the other Killers, as you can just make it dump out a locker from its shadowy mass. To be fair, the lockers don’t mess with gameplay between Dredge and its opponents too much, so their existence doesn’t feel like a negative on the set.

  • Do lockers block projectiles or trigger hitlag? I’m assuming no for the latter, but possibly yes for the former, since they can technically have a hurtbox and react to fighters hitting them.
  • Took me a moment to realize that the first part of Down Special is an excerpt from how Gloaming works in Dead By Daylight for reference, and not part of how the Smash move works.

The Gloaming gives Dredge a classic “teleport between your constructs” move, albeit understandably limited by lockers being earthly constructs and players having no real control over their positions (aside from Dredge pushing them around manually). Was expecting and a little excited that the remnant would function as a duplicate, but I see that it simply serves as an “anchor point” if Dredge wants to teleport back to where it warped from. Remnants don’t seem to have any listed HP for how much damage they need to be neutralized: just says that Remnants take 1.3x as much damage but no knockback - can foes get rid of them with any hit? Is this 1.3x damage transferred to the Dredge?

Down Special also sees use as an infinite recovery that you don’t need to set up. I don’t think it’s too bad here with Dredge, as Gloaming has a 6 second cooldown, and Dredge is a very big lightweight. If anything, Dredge’s ability to quickly teleport between lockers like a game of whack-a-mole could be annoying in practice (it -might- be better to halve Dredge’s locker count for this reason and others). Dredge probably doesn’t need the locker teleporting to chase and cut off its opponents’ escape routes all that badly when it is one of the fastest characters in the game, but it can at least use the lockers to pull off teleporting combos. I also appreciate the Darkness Revealed isn’t downright debilitating against opponents who enter its radius.

Nightfall is a hitbox-less space that buffs Dredge and its allies and slightly debuffs opponents while they are occupying the space. One thing I have to give this set props for here: giving Dredge invulnerability on its start-up within Nightfall captures the feel of an “unstoppable horror villain” that will beat you out if you try to fight against it. Only realized this because I had ideas for a horror video game enemy you have to run from and they would had had some start-up invul moves to give them an unstoppable feel.

  • I’m guessing the Nightfall meter doesn’t go up while the move is active? Also doesn’t state how much meter that attacks and locker teleporting gives them you perform them. There are some parts in this set where little details like that are missing, thought to be fair I didn’t give this set a big look and point this out over the long time you had it up for preview.
  • Nightfall and Septic Touch make it particularly apparent that Dredge focuses on stacking various buffs and debuffs, like increasing and decreasing lag. Also “reaching a maximum of ¾ Devil Blaster (With ⅙ Devil Blaster minimum)” makes it sound like Septic Touch can be charged, though it doesn’t say that the move can be charged.
  • Dissolution is kind of wild, and I enjoyed seeing the exact skill description for that was the inspiration for this move. Creating an AoE that spawns a “delayed” hitbox when the foe shields is actually a pretty fun idea, and you do have to earn the effect by landing the attack on your opponent (helps that Up Special is a good out-of-shield option). I do have one issue though - 15 frames between shielding and the Entity’s insta-shield break attack feels too short. Sure, 15 frames is barely reactable, but it doesn’t give much time, and Dredge could easily lock foes into their shield within that time. Might be better to slow it down to 25-35 frames. The anti-shield effect does have some decent synergy with Dredge’s invincibility on start-up when Nightfall is around.
    • Going off on a tangent here, but I like how various hitboxes/constructs and their multiple outcomes are listed in bullet points. Makes them easier to follow along.

  • Dredge having a shared Jab, F-tilt and Dash Attack to emulate the basic Killer attack you can use while moving around is a respectable design choice. Feels like a solidly-balanced move: clunky lag on a big fighter, but you can move around during the move to space yourself or avoid punishment. I almost wonder if it would have been better to give Dredge a separate Dash Attack though, as it could make good use of its high dashing speed with an offensive attack while still being able to use its good walking speed to move around. Actually, if Dredge uses its Dash Attack, will it move forward at its dashing speed while it’s attacking and recovering? Sounds pretty potent for approaching and maintaining your offensive after hitting an opponent.
  • Dredge using and throwing a pop for its U-tilt is kind of funny. Does the obscuring effect last for the remainder of Nightfall’s duration?
  • U-Smash KO’ing at 173% might be underpowered for how much lag it has.
  • Down Smash using a dead horse head and having ledge uses gives me the mental image of the horse head just hanging over the edge limply if you use the move at the ledge. Like a twisted version of Ness’s Down Smash, but without an annoying hitbox to deal with.

  • While it’s not Hades in its flexibility, the idea of a ranged grab that you can aim above you is cool. You could do some pretty fun things with that against overhead foes standing on a platform, or if the grab had the properties of pulling Dredge towards its target. Will keep that in mind for a moveset idea.
  • While the move doesn’t outright mention the reference, I like Forward Throw being pulled directly from how Killers can carry Survivors over their shoulder. The move also has some nice synergy with the various traps and hotspots that Dredge can throw out, as it lets you freely pop opponents into them.
  • Down Throw is arguably one of Dredge’s more appealing moves for interacting with one of its main centrepieces in its lockers, making for a unique teleport/bury move. I’m also a big fan of the move’s name. “You could even camp at the wrong Locker before sending them to the actual last Locker you interacted with for more predatory scumbaggery than your average modern Blizzard game.” The move’s closing sentence is also great for multiple reasons.
    • (While not stated in Down Throw itself, might not be the best idea to make Forward Smash an easy hit against buried opponents, as the move is pretty powerful.
  • Dredge gets a surprising amount of mileage from a simple “high knockback Back Throw”, as you can knock opponents past (or into) your various trap spaces and profit if you teleport near a locker they were knocked towards thanks to low end lag. Not to mention the tech chase aspect, and benefitting from Septic Touch for kills at higher percents. The 3 throws I mentioned make for a surprisingly good grab game overall.
  • If N-air is a hitgrab, does that mean it can be shielded against?

Overall, I’d say that Dredge is around the quality of your Jamcon entries. I think it comes down to Dredge’s concepts not feeling as exciting as a lot of other entries, as the set mostly focuses on teleporting between lockers and stacking buffs and debuffs to wear down your opponent. This leads to the melee game feeling kind of “average” to me outside of the grab game, as they don’t have much of a base to play off of beyond Nightfall invincibility covering start-up, attacking out of lockers or pushing lockers around. I almost wonder if the set could have done more with Dissolution: maybe making the radius smaller but centering it around Dredge instead of being a trap you have to pop opponents into. It would incentivize Dredge to play more offensively and make it more terrifying to contend with as a whole, which would fit in with its high mobility and emphasis on pursuing and cornering opponents with lockers. Between lockers, Nightfall and Dissolution, I think Dredge leans a bit too much into setting traps to herd its opponent into one place, whereas giving it the latter as radiuses around it could help to spice up the set.

In all fairness, I think Dredge is more polished than your general Jamcon entries, helped by the extra time, and his powerset and skills sound like they were tricky to translate into Smash.

Froy has brought up making Hellsing sets in the past, so it’s pretty hype so finally see a set for this iconic anime, and just another anime set from you in general. Feels like you have a faint monopoly on horror anime given you’ve brought up Franken Fran in the past, like you’re the anime counterpart to the old setmaker King K. Rool. Anyway, Alucard in MYM sensibly takes a page from Sephiroth by being a tall and fast lightweight fighter.

  • I like the visual behind Alucard’s projectile armour during Neutral Special, where enemy projectiles tear a hole through him that just regenerates. This is a smart way to “implement” Alucard’s regeneration, by making it an animation instead of being some kind of mechanic that could have been too centralized for its own good. Likewise, the visuals carrying over to Side Special give Alucard an “unstoppable” feel as he shrugs off enemy attempts to stop his approach.
  • Bit of a surprise to start the set out with a Fox-esque Neutral Special that’s used to pepper on damage from afar, but with the benefit of weak projectile armour and the ability to cancel into it to rack on some extra damage after hits.
    • I wonder if Side Special’s super armour should come in a bit later? It’s a frame 6 command grab that moves Alucard 3 grids forward over 45 frames and has super armour throughout, so it can beat both shielding and enemy attacks. That makes it pretty powerful in spite of its end lag on whiff, and the fact that the rush is more reactable the farther you initiate it from. Start-up is perfectly fine, though.
    • I wonder if Alucard should be allowed to fall through platforms while he’s performing his Side Special throw? I guess it would defeat the purpose of the move being weaker in midair on platforms due to not being able to fall through from as high up. Just me and my mix-up happy brain talking.
  • U-Smash is interesting for how it develops a deadly sweetspot halfway into its charge.
  • U-tilt is kind of neat, being a strong early overhead hit and a weak later hit that can combo into the first hit. I also like the attack’s name.
  • F-throw works surprisingly solidly with Alucard’s gun-cancel, since it lets him pop off a good deal of damage and gives his opponent a reason to roll towards him - at their own risk.
  • I wonder if D-throw’s blood-drinking buff could have been on Side Special and served as a centrepiece for the moveset? Is a nice thing, anyway.
  • B-air feels like one of Alucard’s more interesting moves in spite of its simplicity, being a quick auto-turning aerial that lets Alucard transition into his more pressure-based frontal attacks. Plus its combo potential at lower percents.
  • U-air has interesting synergy with U-Smash. I also like how the hitgrab changes if you land it on a foe with grab immunity. It’s a neat idea and actually something I’ve wanted to explore myself.
  • D-air is a cool little combo-starting/tech-chase stall-then-fall tool, where the Smashes being good at punishing tech chases come back to serve Alucard well. Not mentioned in the move, but I could see D-air’s low knockback allowing Alucard to fall past an airborne opponent and set up well into good overhead attacks, like U-Smash possibly catching opponents from the right height. Heck, the move even has good synergy with Alucard’s U-air, since that move deals downwards knockback and that can set up opponents to be hit by Alucard’s D-air, which could set the foe up to be hit by U-air’s sweetspot a second time!

All and all, Alucard is a solid and well-restrained moveset with your brand of rock-paper-scissors, where the Specials and other prominent moves are used to beat out primary offensive and defensive options against opponents in a guessing game. It’s just that Alucard doesn’t feel like he has much of a “hook” to him compared to your other sets, as his Specials are respectable but pretty basic and he doesn’t have a mechanic to play off of (not that a set needs one to be great, of course). That does make his non-Specials a little less exciting than usual, outside of his last Aerials which are quite good. Can relate to having non-Specials that you like more than your Specials in a moveset.

To be fair, Alucard’s powerset doesn’t strike me as making for a big and exciting MYM set without leaning into summons with his familiars, but I prefer the way you went about him because it’s basically Alucard “holding back” for his moveset, as it were, and that fits his character well. It also feels like you had a good deal of passion for Alucard and just wanted to get a moveset out for him, given each input section is accompanied by a picture like Remilia and there being a decent number of pictures in general. I respect this set in that sense, as you were willing to throw out a set for Alucard that might not have been the best or received as glowingly as you might have liked, compared to if you had just sat on Alucard as a white whale and never shown him the light of day in MYM.
 
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n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,525
friedrich.jpg
Friedrich der Große by Arctic Tern Arctic Tern
Really enjoyed this read - most fun I've had with a Tern set since Remilia! Don't want to set expectations too high for other folks, but Friedrich gets a lot rowdier than your MYM26 work in a really fun way. None of this will be a surprise to you since I previewed the set of course, but may as well go on public record about it.

New Jersey was a blast to write and she brought out a lot of my influences and strengths as a designer in ways I didn't fully appreciate until looking back on her. It's fun to see Friedrich here deliver a kit that feels very reflective of your strengths. It really sells these gacha characters as a bit of a cipher for the writer's leanings. Not to say the characters are being bent out of shape in the process; they're just naturally a bit open to interpretation in a way that makes it very easy for character and writer to shine through. This is a very Terncore set and I think it does a great job capturing the character in the process of building up the kind of rigorously-defined control game that's your trademark.

There are a lot of fun little touches throughout the set, but I think the strongest overall decision anchoring things is the direction of the Fortissimo and Pianissimo stances. The way she bounces back and forth between "normal-ish smash heavyweight" and "sicko MYM heavyweight" is a lot of fun and the styles feel very distinct from each other while also retaining a lot of core identity between them. She's got a very wide kit but she steers well clear of the "just have an answer for everything" issue that you can run into in stance-changing sets.

Early on I thought the moveset might be the full gremlin mode Tern set I've been hoping for, but it didn't quite turn out to be that; the decisions throughout her normals trend a bit more restrained after some of the wild early choices, which is probably wise given just how many inputs she has. It'd be A Lot if the whole thing were all gas and no brakes. There's still some nutty stuff once you get past the Smashes, but the set mostly throws its wild stuff at you early and then builds on it in a pretty level-headed way.

If I had to pick at something, I do think maybe some of the ways she can take options away from the opponent can start to be a little much layered on top of each other, but I'm comfortable handwaving it - I think the right checks and balances are in place that you could number-crunch it from here to get things Just So.

Stray thoughts:
  • Really compelling use of a slow counter, as a perpetual complainer about Ike's counter
  • Very much enjoy the times where the set forces Friedrich to play the set-up she's created versus letting her customize too much. Very present design choice in SSpec but also with her quicker inputs (Jab, NAir) not switching her stance.
  • DSpec gets very bombastic in a way I'm a fan of.
  • There's also something very funny on a meta level about the silly hot boat gacha character encouraging foes to get grabby.
  • Appreciate some of the little callbacks to New Jersey like the specifically-named-missile USmash.
  • This set's big wild attacks are very fun; the Smashes are a strong input section and Dash Attack also gets a little silly in a cool way.
    • I think this is something that was a little missing for me from some of your stuff last contest and it's great to see you getting back to it.
  • The normals tend to be a bit more reserved but still make the odd big choice that gets the brain turning a little.
 
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Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,246
Location
Australia
  • Two Overwatch openers? That’s a lot of dedication to the franchise.
  • Pretty used to more specific stats, but I’m good with them being non-specific, as they manage to convey how the character plays.
  • Nice to see ammo-based mechanics. Allowing Torbjorn to move and jump while he’s reloading is a good touch that prevents him from being too open when he runs out.

  • Neutral Special is good for playing off of Torb’s main mechanic, which is always something I like to see in movesets. “Increased slightly” is a bit vague for what I’m used to by modern standards as far as the ground and air speed buffs go, but not to the point where it hurts the set.
    • 12 seconds might be a bit too long for a cooldown. I’d be fine with it being 6 seconds, same as Overload’s duration. 12 seconds for a cooldown makes the move feel like a once-per-stock deal, unless Torb uses his Neutral Special at the start of his stock.
    • Overload’s primary appeal and offering to Torb, from what I understand, is making it easier for him to combo and follow-up since it increases his movement and decreases his end lag for moves that utilize primary and secondary fire. That’s pretty neat when I think about it: it encourages the Torb player to get aggressive and fire off as much ammo as they can during the buff’s 6 second window, but they also have to be careful not to leave themselves open by being forced to reload at the wrong time.

  • I like how Side Special can be angled to give Torb a different type of turret. The regular turret feels spot-on balance-wise, as it fires periodically but doesn’t deal any hitstun, just a little damage. If I may make a suggestion, you might want to make projectiles go through the turret or reduce its HP so it can’t sponge them easily - maybe something like 11-13% so the foe can get rid of it with some 1-2 hits, similar to Pac-Man’s Hydrant. Not a big deal, I just tend to be conscious of constructs and minions that can block off projectiles more effectively than the author may have intended.
  • I believe 2 Kirby lengths is actually pretty good melee range for the launcher turret (and 105% is a pretty good KO percent for the values you’re working for), but I get that the turret’s melee range is supposed to be short. Does the turret only hit opponents in front of it, or can it hit foes behind it? Guess it would have to be the former, because it might be too difficult for enemies to deal with at close range.
  • Freeze turret’s ice stream sounds like it slows down foes proportional to how long they are stuck in the stream. The move doesn’t make it clear whether the stream deals damage or hitstun. Also 6 Kirbies away is a good distance, nearly half a Battlefield long from what I understand, but again it’s conveyed that the turret just has moderate range.
  • Down Special feels like it has some overlap with Side Special (primarily the regular turret), as it is used to produce a spot that deals non-flinching damage. I think making the lava glob deal damage while it’s a projectile would add more to the move.

  • It might be a good idea to describe Dash Attack’s animation before talking about its uses and characterization, as readers don’t yet know how Torb is performing the attack. Also feels like Dash Attack should have its KO percent swapped with the knockback turret, since the former comes out on frame 19 and that is very slow for a Dash Attack. I could see its low end lag making it a useful move to press the offensive on your opponent or quickly transition into setting up or firing your projectiles.
  • Frame 8 on F-tilt does feel a little fast for a projectile with low end lag that allows Torb to move while he’s using it. That makes it unreactable, unlike most projectiles, and while the projectile’s flight speed isn’t stated I assume it moves pretty fast. I also think 12.4% is a bit much for how much it can be spammed, it should probably be half as much. I think the start-up and end lag should be around 8-10 frames higher, but you can press A to rapid-fire. It gives foes more time to get around the move when you start and stop it, but still allows Torb to fire quickly. I know that Torb has his reloading mechanic to balance out F-tilt’s damage and frame data, but still.
  • D-tilt admittedly feels redundant when Down Special already exists to produce lava. Can’t say I’m a fan of a non-Special move that lacks a conventional hitbox without good reason. Personally, I’d say it should be replaced - how about a medium speed (frame 10-11?) claw sweep that deals decent low-angled knockback to space enemies and easily position them near a turret? Low knockback angles means it can force tech chases.

  • I’m a fan of multi-hitting attacks that deal more knockback or hitstun proportional to how many of the hits connect. It took me to Back Air to realize that Torb fires these projectiles in a spread, which is actually cool because it implies that you’ll connect with all of them and get max damage at close range, but don’t deal as much from farther away due to the spread (might be a good idea to emphasize this - I initially imagined that the projectiles were fired in a line and thought that they would all connect no matter how far away they hit from, making the move sound way more overpowered than it actually was). I think that Torb should not be able to move while he’s using his F-Smash, as it means that he has to settle with whatever position he’s in when he fires and can’t move to cheat out of it.
  • I wonder if Torb could produce a different type of trap instead of more lava for his D-Smash? It would help him feel more like a trapper character, instead of just having his turrets and lava globs to lean on.
  • I love that you think Torbjorn would love a good spiking move, so you gave him one for his Down Air.
  • I’m guessing that pummeling opponents (or something along those lines) restores your ammo in Overwatch?
  • It’s nice that Torb has a solid throw that uses ammo.

While the set is rough in a number of areas, Torbjorn feels like an improvement over your MYM26 sets in describing attacks, but there is still room for growth. Primarily, giving moves more detail and applications, and conveying a stronger sense of a move’s implications. For instance, Jab does a good job at conveying that it’s a weak melee hitbox with its poor frame data, but it doesn’t go into detail on what the move can be used for. This is largely left for the reader to guess, and going by the fact that it can be used in sudden death I have to guess that it deals a bit of knockback that slowly scales. I like that you’re aware of trying not to make parts of Torbjorn’s melee too strong or useful since he’s a trapper, like on his U-air, but the moves don’t do much for his gameplan and I still think they could even if they’re not meant to be good melee tools. There are some moments where applications are mentioned though, like Dash Attack being used to catch landings (there is a bit more room to go into detail, like the fact that it could be strong against shields since it’s a slow power move).

On the plus side, I like how you’ve emphasized wanting to capture the feel and characterization of Torbjorn. Not only with the stats section, but making him say lines from Overwatch and bringing up his tendency to have tantrums during Dash Attack.
 

BrazilianGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
37
Torblerone overwatch is my beloved, I waste too much time in that game and a lot of it does go torwards him when I atempt to play DPS, so this moveset caught my eye fast. The main thing this set does is trully give off the feel of Torb, his voice lines are here, his animations feel in character, he has all of the tools you'd expect and keeps his zoning playstyle that's not too opressive, something that could have been easy to fumble with the turret. Also nice to include his other turrets, if only we had the talent system and the flamethrower turret was real... I think the throws could have had a bit more oomf, you mention how a lot of his moves can be shielded to be dealt with, and while pummel is fun I think the rest of his throws could have had a bigger emphasis (Also make him say BINGO after the Back Throw shot it'd be funnee). But in general this set captures Torb's essence quite well and even goes further than Overwatch by giving him more turrets and actual decisions to make as a builder, something he normally doesn't have to do in Ow, as a Torb head I enjoyed this a ton, You Should Try my Meatballs/10.

Also this year Imma try and do the ratings tier list style, it won't be ordered until the time for the top 50 comes (lets hope I manage to do that this year) but yeah hope this works.
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S tier is for the bestest
A is for stuff I really like
B is for stuff I like
C is for cool
 
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FazDude

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
3,022
Location
Wherever good books are sold.
Heyo, chaps. Planning to take what I've learned from Waluigi and put it towards an even better set this year. I'll try to keep up with commenting with sets that catch my eye as they roll in, but I'm currently aiming for a Spring release for my first moveset (and hopefully not the last). Don't worry, though, that time will be spent cooking.
 

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,706
Woe! Double opening day set be upon ye!

(Click on the picture to see the moveset)



That wasn't a pumpkin spice latte...


"Don't start fights you can't finish"
Okay so Pumpkinmon was cool. It was a simple set, and I like the idea of a Tiny Killer Person with a knife being a total gremlin, which fits a walking Halloween decoration. It being the size of Villager and focusing on Rushdown is cool too. I like the funny pumpkin because it has some funny potential Edgeguarding, and that’s why I like it! The Specials mostly being Projectiles also fits, but again Pumpmon lacks the mid range. I don’t have a lot to comment on, but the moveset was short, simple, and sweet, so I liked it! As a bonus the Classic route was cool.
 

Rychu

Thane of Smashville
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
810
3DS FC
1908-0105-4965
Rychu's Objectively Correct MYM27 Rankings are here! This time, I'm gonna be ranking movesets in a tier list-style fashion, since my personal distaste for numerical outta 10 rankings has only grown and I'm the kind of person who prefers to live my life by vibes. As I comment, I'll be updating the image so come back here to see this papyrus fill out, and by clicking on the image you can see a compiled collection of all the comments I've made so far in this contest! I'll make sure to keep a handy table of contents in the doc to make sure you can jump right into whatever comment you want to view.

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Perkilator

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
10,356
Location
The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
Heyo, chaps. Planning to take what I've learned from Waluigi and put it towards an even better set this year. I'll try to keep up with commenting with sets that catch my eye as they roll in, but I'm currently aiming for a Spring release for my first moveset (and hopefully not the last). Don't worry, though, that time will be spent cooking.
Likewise. I'm planning on taking what I learned with Axel Stone and putting it towards a more detailed moveset towards Magolor and Athena Asamiya.
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
121
THE DREDGE (Goliso)

The Dredge, befitting for a Dead by Daylight killer, bases its gameplan off of making the foe too afraid of it to properly exploit its large size and low weight. It does this by spawning in Lockers that the opponent can hide behind to defend against its attacks, but ones that it can also near-instantly teleport too with DSpec for surprising burst mobility. Dredge also has the ability to debuff the opponent’s movement and startlag via its Specials, which are fairly minimal on their own but add up quickly over time. It’s a fun basis for a playstyle that my Alucard set leans into quite a bit, but there’s clear differences in his focus on sheer range and power compared to Dredge’s debuff emphasis. The animations make great use of the monster’s bizarre physiology, transforming its body into animals and grasping the foe with multiple hands for both its NAir and grab. Aside from the moves themselves working well for Dredge’s game of punishing mistakes and setting up for weird teleport combos, I like how many of them also have the dual purpose of moving around Lockers so it can apply its Darkness Revealed buff - the option to turn its Nightfall clouds into outright obscuring clouds via UTilt is also fun and adds to the feel in a unique way.

While I certainly like the set, the Dredge definitely feels under-elaborated in some areas, most notably in the NSpec. Nightfall works off a meter that is filled by attacking the foe or teleporting through Lockers, but it is never specified how much of the meter is filled by these actions at any point. I wasn’t really a fan of DTilt’s extra effect, either; the move itself is fine, but there’s no justification for the effect unlike UTilt, and I don’t see why you’d want the Nightfall effect to be bigger when it comes at the cost of making it worse in close combat and Dredge doesn’t have that many fast mid-range options to really take hold of it. In general, there’s not a lot of standout moves here, with the exception of UTilt and the omnidirectional grab, with most of the moves being memorable for their animations rather than their effect, a bit of a shame since Dredge has much more obvious potential than many other DBD killers. Nevertheless, it definitely succeeds at getting the creature’s overall vibe off, so overall I’d say it's a fine first offering.

GILIUS THUNDERHEAD (Turtles)

Gilius is a fun take on the classic “slow heavy” character, with bad approaching options but incredible power. Unlike the majority of said characters, however, he actually has fairly good buttons for the most part, with fast frame data combined with good range thanks to his ax. What makes this more harrowing is that not only does Gilius have a fairly good combo game, he can also cancel any of his ax hits into his grab - and he has very good throws, from high power kill throws to versatile combo throws to one that buries at high percents. Lastly, he does have means of counteracting projectiles, such as his SSpec which low profiles him and gives him superarmor or his USmash, which creates a brief projectile wall. All this means that, once Gilius actually does make it to the foe, he gets a lot off of the conversion, meaning that projectiles aren’t nearly as much of a problem as with other heavies.

In addition to this, by grabbing his opponent Gilius has a chance to gain magic pots that he can use to amp up his Neutral and Down Specials. NSpec has him cast lightning magic that gets stronger the more pots he has, while DSpec has him summon a mount with much higher ground speed and a set of oppressive, fairly hard-hitting moves that he can even combo off of. These are all really nice ways of further rewarding Gilius for making it to the foe, and the strongest NSpec’s nature as a delayed time bomb plays very well into his overall playstyle. I do believe that he may have an infinite in the form of his down FThrow variant, which drops the foe into prone in front of him, as the text suggests using a jab-lock to get a regrab with there being nothing stopping Gilius from using FThrow again. I don’t know enough about how these situations work to tell if this is actually the case, but it’s still something to worry about.

For the rest of Gilius’ moves outside of his Specials and throws, they are on the simple side, but this is a fairly basic character you’re doing so more complex moves wouldn’t fit. They all work well into his overall kit, though, with him having moves to poke, start combos, or secure kills - a highlight is FSmash, which is slow but not only serves as a kill move but also a combo starter due to the grab-cancel mechanic. That’s not to say that Gilius is free from “weirder” moves, though, such as his DSmash, which makes a rock projectile that can serve as a strong tool towards counteracting recoveries (though its damage and kill percent is never stated). I am a bit concerned about how stuffed he is by more mobile characters, given his horrid mobility in most regards, but on the other hand it’s kinda nice to see a heavy set that just embraces the low mobility associated with the archetype and adapts by just making his reward for hitting them much higher. Gilius is a very cool take on the “heavyweight combo character” overall, and a character I’d definitely have plenty of fun with.

Link to full comment repository here!
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,246
Location
Australia
You really are associated with non-Sonic Sega franchises, which is refreshing to see in a setmaker. I’m very fond of Gilius’s stats being tailored to fit the feel of his home game - you have a very strong sense for this, which was especially apparent from our recent conversation about how air speed and air friction affect how a fighter can approach and recover. The care and emphasis on how Gilius would feel in Smash is especially apparent by his Axe Grappling mechanic, given the emphasis on hitstun to make his axe attacks feel heavy, and grab cancels not being too hard to pull off. I especially like how Axe Grappling is relevant to Magic Pots, the mechanic that follows it! I could see it being a little annoying that whether a magic pot appears is determined by luck, but it’s a good bit of what I assume is faithfulness to the original game.

Neutral Special reminds me a lot of Nino, where Gilius casts an elemental spell that changes completely when certain conditions are met. Between this and the RNG around pot-collecting, it’s actually refreshing to see a moveset implement moves and mechanics in a way to give players less control over them - it would be tempting for setmakers, including myself, to give Gilius access to his lower-tier spells or make it so the pot-collecting happened once every 2 or 3 throws or so. With that being said, it was a bit of a surprise design choice to see the strongest lightning spell be a Shadow Flare style hitbox, rather than a big, straightforward powerful attack you’d expect from the GIF and Gilius being described as a straightforward character (as well as your strong tendency to stay faithful to how stuff works in your characters’ source material). Not that I object to it. It is neat that one of the delayed lightning bolts hits Gilius himself, though.

Side Special is more of a simple movement attack that translates Gilius’s signature move from his game. The ability to roll back to perform an evasive mix-up is a point of interest, but I enjoyed some of the Smash-like nuances here, like auto-cancelling if you end the roll when landing at max-range, or Gilius tumbling and suffering more end lag if he rolls into the ground from too low up. Up Special is another movement-based attack and recovery you’d expect to see rom Gilius in Smash, but I like how it being weak and exploitable prevents how far Gilius can go offstage to torment foes with his lightning magic.

Down Special has a few things to unpack (mostly trivial and small talk), so I’ll list them in bullet points:

  • I like the trivial details surrounding mounts.
  • It’s bold of you to give Gilius two Specials that do nothing without magic pots, especially where one of them requires 3 pots. Not essential at all, but what if there was some kind of visual to tell players that they need 3 magic pots to summon a magical beast when Down Special fails? For instance, 3 blue lights flash where Gilius’s first 3 magic pots would be displayed on his HUD.
  • The size comparison image for solo Gilius vs mounted Gilius is really nice to see. It really puts into perspective how big mounted fighters get when they are proportioned realistically. It reminds me of when people did sets for Warcraft characters who were riding mounts, and Warlord called out Froy’s Baron Rivendare set for being smaller that he would be realistically.
  • Okay, so this has absolutely nothing to do with the moveset, but those bald hammer-wielding goons in the first Down Special GIF have serious Fist of the North Star vibes to them. Warlord would have loved their character designs, and probably would have made a moveset for one of them (or an OC based on them) if Golden Axe received attention in older MYM.
  • I always like seeing mounts in MYM sets, like Wario’s bike and the like where the player engages in a different control scheme and gets access to a mini moveset that seems pretty worth the cost. It’s a neat dynamic that foes can knock Gilius off of his mount and use it against him, but I have to wonder whether the latter is necessary since summoning a mount is already pretty costly. Using the mount’s powerful attacks against Gilius feels pretty stacked against him when his movement and recovery aren’t the best.
  • Opponents being able to throw your magic pots at your mount to kill it and spawn chicken is pretty funny, even if it’s a very niche scenario. Being able to OHKO a mount being mounted by your opponent with lightning magic is a nice touch too, and pretty well-deserved when the high cost of mount-summoning means that Gilius will either need a single magic pot left over or to build them up after summoning his mount to be in a good position to use lightning magic if his mount is stolen.

Giving Gilius an extra Forward Throw is nice, which you can hold to give more power or tilt the control stick down to leave your opponent prone to mix them up. If the foe attempts to mash out of your grab thinking you’ll charge it and you leave them prone, could their button mashing lead them to make a mistake while they’re in prone? Maybe the throw’s animation would be a bit too long for that. A Down Throw that deals knockback but buries from 100% is not something we’ve really seen despite the good amount of bury throws we’ve seen, which is actually pretty cool!

It’s good to see frame data make a return for Gilius’s standard attacks. I never mentioned it to you directly, but I enjoyed the way you listed frame data in your MYM25 sets and more or less copied it for my more recent sets, as a way to try and cut down on word count.

  • “There’s some noticeable delay between the first and second axe swings, communicating the weight of the weapon,” This Jab excerpt on the weight of the weapon - a thumbs-up right here.
  • Wasn’t expecting a horizontal projectile from Down Smash.
  • I actually like the applications of U-Smash’s dirt hitbox when the move is grab-canceled, piling on a little extra damage on opponents. I almost wish this avenue of moves that provide further benefits to the grab you cancel into was explored further, but I know that would have been impractical given the nature of the character.
  • I like Held F-air’s multi-hit air-to-ground transition.
  • Reading the playstyle section, I like how Gilius is something of a departure from the typical axe-wielder by being more of a combo-heavy character with good neutral tools.

While not as conceptually powerful as Tulin or Akira in my books, as the Specials and mechanics don’t provide as much of a connection to the rest of the set, Gilius Thunderhead was nonetheless a solid set with a lot of entertaining factors, as is clear by everything I’ve said throughout this comment. It helps that your sets have a lot of love and polish to them, which always makes them a pleasure to read!

  • It’s clear to me now that Overhealth is a prominent mechanic in the Overwatch games. That being said, I think that implementing it as a “damage sponge” mechanic is not the most exciting way that Overhealth could be implemented, as it feels too passive. What would be interesting, and straight-up fitting to Mauga’s status as a super heavyweight, would be to make it into some kind of passive super armour. Like, maybe it gives Mauga super armour against attacks that deal 10% or less during his start-up and active frames until foes deal him that much damage or an attack that deals more than 10%. You could even keep in how Overhealth works for good measure. Being able to ignore enemy attacks would really sell the “Berserker” aspect of Magua’s mechanic, and perhaps better convey Mauga being a “brute on the outside, tactician on the inside.”
  • Neutral Special has a pretty unique control scheme, where you tap vs hold B to fire one of two miniguns, or double-tap and hold B to fire both of them. Don’t remember seeing this in other sets. The move does feel kind of weak, as it takes half a second to start firing and the bullets only flinch targets every 25 frames or so. You would be justified in letting Mauga move around while firing, much like Torbjorn, maybe like the Cracker Launcher from Super Smash Bros Brawl? Then he could move back and forth and aim his guns up and down.
  • “Mauga gets some airstall as he steps back with one of his feet to use it to propel himself forward.” A bit unrelated, but I actually like this line. Manages to convey the move’s animation while slipping in that Mauga gets airstall in a concise way. The move is admittedly a bit confusing to read in spite of the detail you’re putting in - I don’t get how pressing the jump button allows Magua to perform his jump early. From what I gather, Magua performs an armoured stomp at the end of his jump, and it has different properties depending on whether it hits a grounded or airborne opponent. The fixed movement distance means I could see the move being very spacing-demanding to pull off.
  • Down Special feels underdetailed in some areas - does lifesteal mean that Mauga heals the same amount of damage he deals? I’d also imagine that this move would have a cooldown like a lot of other Overwatch skills, as the way it’s written he can pull it off anytime with no lag or animation.

  • “This move has Mauga perform a move similar to K. Rool’s own Up Tilt, swinging his gun in an uppercut, but in order to make it more unique, Mauga’s animation has him stop the momentum on his hand at the top instead of extending it further like the Kremling King. This conveys a sense of controlled lethality, and an idea of his immense strength if he’s just able to brush people aside like that without too much difficulty. ” I like this.
  • It’s nice that Mauga’s basic attacks have at least one application outlined for them, giving them a noted purpose and thought behind them.
  • “Overall, this move perfectly embodies his brutal strength while also encompassing his cunning, strategic way of thinking.” I’d say Forward Smash’s power and animation leans fully into Magua’s brutal strength, but even the most simple of Forward Smashes can be used in cunning and strategic ways! If you can get inside your opponent’s head.
  • ”It would feel fitting to have a classic MYM boulder Up Smash attack here, but the problem is that Mauga holds two massive guns… I’m not going with a boulder, I’d just like everyone to know I considered it.” I like that you straight-up considered boulders for Magua’s Up Smash, whether or not he uses them in canon (which doesn’t matter too much to me).

Final Smash is fun because it embraces another old MYM trope: cages. MYM8 Dark Bowser and MYM15 Zant are examples of these if you’re interested in looking them up. I don’t normally bring up Final Smashes in comments, but the FS does feel underpowered since the cage rules apply to Mauga as well and he doesn’t seem to receive any real benefits to make up for the fact that it’s meant to be his Final Smash. Maybe foes within the caging area receive an initial burst of stun? Perhaps the cage could work like the King of Fighters stage boundary in a way, where fighters who get launched are bounced around the cage (where you can potentially infinite them) until they get within KO range, where they’ll break through the boundary and go flying. In some ways I almost wish the cage was a part of Mauga’s main moveset, as it and his grab belt give him a lot more set potential than what would be implied from a burly man with a pair of mini-guns, but balancing cages for modern MYM would be very tricky.

I’d say Magua was close to Torbjorn in quality, though the latter had a slightly more interesting playstyle in his ammo and a nice little Side Special. I wonder if Mauga could have played more into his Berserker skill beyond his Neutral Special, since it gives him a bonus when he deals fire damage to opponents, but even then overhealth isn’t really a hook that the moveset can play off of. I could also see the set placing more of an emphasis on Magua’s Side Special and the spacing needed to land it, where Magua may want to knock foes into the mid-range necessary to land it or fish for it in neutral. Don’t have too much else to say, but I did enjoy Mauga’s round of characterization and his various quotes, especially against the Smash cast.

Unrelated, but a little hint for moveset presentation in Google Docs: if you click “Normal Text” on the bar with all the text-manipulating options like B, I and U, you can change text to be “Heading 1” or “Heading 2” and make that text appear as headers on the left side of your doc. Useful to apply to move’s headers like “Specials” and attack names, makes it easy for readers to navigate different parts of the set. Not as necessary for your sets since they are shorter, but still a good thing to know.
 
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Perkilator

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
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Location
The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
Likewise. I'm planning on taking what I learned with Axel Stone and putting it towards a more detailed moveset towards Magolor and Athena Asamiya.
Actually, I changed my mind; I'm clearly not cut out for this. Are there any existing MYM concepts of Magolor and Athena I can look at?
 

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,525
Actually, I changed my mind; I'm clearly not cut out for this. Are there any existing MYM concepts of Magolor and Athena I can look at?
I believe we have but not in a while (and some older MYM sets may not age well). You can find a list of every moveset in MYM (up through MYM26) here. The "Movesets" tab at the top of that page should let you navigate to the right contest to find whatever you're looking for from the list I linked.

(Also, while there's no pressure to participate, don't get down on yourself!)
 
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wizfoot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Messages
136
Location
Make Your Move, probably
Switch FC
SW-7677-1915-7484
I am super, super, super happy to finally have this out. It's not perfect, and there's definitely room for improvement, but overall? I'm very, very, very, very happy with how this one came out. Happy MYM27, all!

IT WAS FAR TOO BIG TO BE CALLED A MOVESET.
MASSIVE, THICK, HEAVY, AND FAR TOO ROUGH.
INDEED, IT WAS A HEAP OF RAW INFODUMPING.

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"My love for you... is like a truck. Berserker."

1/31: Uploaded!

2/1: Overall changes to Guts's kill percentages, damage, lag and cleared up his Specials introduction

Flip Slash kills later, from 145% to 150%: it now deals 11.5% instead of 10%
Yield To Me's duration changed from one second to ~a second and a half
Yield to Me's end lag reduced from ~1.5 seconds to ~1 second
Dash Attack changed from "incredibly inefficient killing tool" to "unreliable killing tool": "realistically kills at 170%" changed to "realistically kills at about 160% near the ledge"
Fully charged BA Forward Smash changed from killing at 15% to 20%
BA Up Smash changed from frames 18-22 to frames 20-24
Down Smash changed from dealing 5+16% to 5+13% for a total of 18% (7+18.2% when fully charged, a total of 25.2%): uncharged kill percentage changed from 115% to 125%

Changes to Guts's specials
Neutral Special's end lag has been reduced to 10-15 frames w/o the Berserker Armor and 8-12 frames w/ the Berserker Armor: more changes to come in the future
Up Special now does more damage against shields
Side Special now pushes Guts back further in midair and can be cancelled from frames 10-35
Down Special now has different flavor depending on the swing: swing 1 has a roar, swing 2 has a growl, swing 3 has Guts's eyes glow red, and swing 4 has a red trail follow his eyes

Minor grammar improvements and additions to Guts's writeup and canon abilities

PLANNED CHANGES:

- Currently reworking Side Special!

"If you’re alone… if it’s just your life, you can use it however you please. Wear yourself out, get cut to ribbons, doesn’t matter. But when there’s two, the blade grows heavy. Fighting like death doesn’t concern you becomes a thing of the past. It’s no longer just you. I threw away my way of life, relied on the strength of others, and somehow pushed on."

"Speak up. I can't hear you." (after he cut out a man's tongue)

"...Are you homo?"

"I was prepared. I knew the journey wouldn't be easy, and not just the rigors of travel. Fighting to protect someone, it goes far beyond a personal war. And it's not just about protecting Casca either, because my death will mean hers as well. I'm used to fighting to survive, but what grows worse inside me daily is the pressure not to die. Have I ever before wielded a sword so heavy?"

"Perhaps, this is what I was looking for my whole life. I didn't realize it until this very moment, but everything I wanted back then is right here before me now. Why don't I ever realize what I have until it's lost to me?"

"Look. Take a good look around us. A good hard look at the shadows. At the darkness around me. You said somewhere that's not here. This is that somewhere. The verge of our world. This place is a drift where the dead cling to the living, drowning in jealousy and yearning. A garbage heap of losers. You said you don't care where. Well, what you see is what you get. This is your Eden. There is no paradise for you to escape to. What you'll find, what's there, is just a battlefield."
 
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Rychu

Thane of Smashville
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
810
3DS FC
1908-0105-4965
Alucard by Arctic Tern Arctic Tern
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So right off the bat (heh) I quite like the visual flair of the animation descriptions, especially from the neutral special's implementation of his regenerative powers. I feel like a lot of us would try to make the regeneration some sort of overarching mechanic, and honestly just making it a property of some of his attacks makes it somehow feel more powerful than just giving him some sort of passive healing effect. Alucard being a quick lightweight that plays like an aggressive heavyweight gives him the same sort of feeling one gets from Sephiroth in Ultimate proper, and it's an archetype I quite enjoy, so the set does get immediate brownie points from me for that as well.

Alucard is full of cool visual flair, like the smashes being his various summons, doing gun-kata-esque rolls, and summoning darkness swords out of thin air. The set feels noticeably restrained and a bit held back, and is very no-nonsense in its approach to playstyle. Alucard is about as straightforward as they come, and while I think there's certainly room for this sort of parred back moveset (and it can be quite refreshing sometimes with the behemoths we get) I can't help but feel like perhaps there was room here to go bigger, even working within the confines of the set itself as presented. Alucard certainly has his high-damage and knockback options that leave him vulnerable if he misses, but I do honestly feel like some of those numbers could have gone even meatier and the set wouldn't suffer for it. And, to possibly contradict my own previous statement in this very paragraph, the very straightforward nature of the moveset does lead to a bit of ennui while reading, like there is that intangible "something" or hook that is absent, which isn't something that I can remember thinking for a lot of your work that I've read.

I hope not to imply that I think Alucard is a bad moveset. Far from it, really: I think it's your grasp on fundamentals and mechanics that make it an entirely functional and at times very cool moveset, it's simply not one that has a particularly strong "wow" factor to me. Certainly, not something to be ashamed of, I still think it's an admirable effort on your part and a good foot to start the contest on, and I can foresee it even being a strong contender for an RV on any given vote list, and for that reason, I'll be ranking Alucard in my "B" tier. Can't wait to read your next 19 movesets in this contest, Tern!

The Dredge by GolisoPower GolisoPower
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The Dredge to me feels like a wildly mixed bag of very cool concepts and a lack of mechanical detail that makes some of the set feel either very overpowered or downright difficult to understand the full context of. Obviously, the lag and damage data is all there and presented in a very easy-to-read way, but like Kat I do feel as though there are some fairly common interactions that would inevitably happen that are simply not addressed in the writing. Kat went over a lot of these in detail in their comment so I'm not going to spend too much time repeating them here, though a criticism I will echo in full is that I feel the presence of the lockers as already-established constructs on stage without needed input of the player does sort of push the set from "interpretation of a power-set and gameplay mechanics of DBD" to "hey let's just play a round of DBD in a smash bros match" that feels weighted heavily in the favor forcing opponents to play in a very specific way. I do think that Dredge being able to spawn lockers and place them with the shield special feels a little bit better than turning every stage into a DBD round, but I do understand the thought process behind the way it was implemented in the set, and the Dredge being a nearly recovery-less lightweight does go some distance in balancing some of Dredge's more frankly insane abilities and wide area-of-effect debuffs. Whether that distance covers sufficient ground, I suspect, will be left to the interpretation of any given reader, but for me, I think it may fall just a little short.

Now, this isn't to say Dredge is without cool and well-executed concepts, as mentioned at the top of this comment. I think within its own context, the Dredge's melee game is surprisingly solid in how it interacts with its various AOEs and constructs on the stage, and the concept behind the way it interacts with entering and leaving lockers, as well as the ability on the side of the opponent to mess with said constructs and even lock Dredge inside are, on paper, pretty neat. I do question some input decisions, namely U-Tilt being sort of a buff to the already quite large and scary AOE Nightfall being a bit of an odd-feeling input choice for something that feels so special-coded. That said, I think the emphasis on pressuring, breaking, and pushing shields present in a lot of the attacks actually goes a long way in making it somewhat cohesive as an overall product, as does the pretty cool grab game, which I think it is easily the most standout section of attacks outside of the specials.

The set does go all in on making Dredge feel like a horrifying nightmare monster stalking its foes and playing with them like food, which isn't surprising since I generally think one of your more notable strengths as a set maker is pushing gameplay in a very character-centric fashion. That is to say, you're quite good at capturing a very specific vibe for the characters you make sets for, and that's certainly as true here as it is anywhere else. Plus, I always get a kick out of your energetic style of description, your personality shines through in your writing without diluting or undercutting the rest of the set or its general atmosphere. I can't say Dredge is necessarily my cup of tea unfortunately, as I think the issues I mentioned previously do unfortunately hinder my enjoyment of the set as a set, but what I CAN'T say is that I didn't have fun reading it, and I think there's value in that as well - your passion for your characters is always a treat. All being said, I'm tentatively putting Dredge in the "D" tier, though I won't necessarily say that that opinion won't improve on re-reads in its current state or if some changes based on feedback help the set.

EDIT: Upon reading Goliso's tweaks, I do think the set has improved a fair bit since launch. Keeping the original comment in tact for posterity's sake, but the changes have, for me, bumped The Dredge up from "D" tier to "C" tier.

Gilius Thunderhead by BridgesWithTurtles BridgesWithTurtles
1706765693453.png


Ah, Gilius. Completely unrelated to the moveset itself, but I'm most familiar with him from his portrayal in the web series Sonic For Hire, where he's a promiscuous voyeur who specializes in making prison wine, so I will do my best to not let that color my perception of this moveset.

To start off, I absolutely LOVE the way Gilius' two character mechanics play off of each other. It's quite elegant, quite satisfyingly tying the collection of pots to the grab and pummel while simultaneously having a very grab-forward mechanic with his axe-canceling. That's honestly top-tier stuff, capturing the feel of the game without it being intrusive or even really feeling out of place within Smash. I think the majority of the moveset ends up playing into these mechanics in very fun ways, with the only outlier being the Down Special, though honestly, I feel the set would be missing something if the mount wasn't here, While Down Special doesn't feel as though it's contributing much tangibly in the way of his playstyle, the way it introduces a little bit of chaos into the match is something I'm always very down for.

Gilius' general game plan is what's to be expected of the character and the set doesn't hold too many surprises, but what's here is very good, and a lot of what really elevates it does come down to those two mechanics introduced in the beginning. It's like a rug, it ties the whole room together. The grab game ends up being one of the more fun aspects of the set, which is something entirely expected when the central mechanic involves canceling melee into a grab. I suppose if I had one minor criticism, it is that I do wish that the Pots came into play a little bit more frequently, though big props to committing to having the moves that entirely rely on magic being rendered useless without them. I suppose using them in ways like empowering your melee attacks or something similar wouldn't fit the mold of translating mechanics faithfully into a very grounded smash moveset, though I don't think that would be entirely out of place given the mechanical emphasis on picking them up. For what it's worth, I do enjoy how they're implemented here and I understand that an additional mechanic like that would require a re-tuning of his very strong melee and combo game, but I think that really making the most out of that limited ammo bank mechanic may have given an already very good moveset just a little bit of extra oomph. Alternatively, it could have felt very out of place on such an unga-bunga axe-swinger, I dunno. Either way, I am a big fan of this set, it's fun, mechanically interesting, and an absolute breeze and joy to read. Setting this in the "A" tier for now, putting it at the very paramount of what I've read so far in this contest.
 
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Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,246
Location
Australia
Welcome back to Make Your Move, Hypah! It is no exaggeration to say that I was hyped to see you post a moveset, and really just curious to see where your skillset is at right now. Just scrolling through this set makes it apparent that it was a passion project, and the presentation is simple but nice to boot. Very glad to see that your personality and writing style are the same, they are both a joy to interact with. I love that you made your return with a modern take on one of your most iconic characters, which is all the more fitting given the notable retcons Fang got in the Sonic series.

  • Tail Spring immediately brings another old MYM character to mind, that being Cranky Kong. It’s a pretty fun mechanic, especially with the variations in how high and far Fang can bounce - springs aren’t something we’ve seen a lot in MYM, if you can believe that.
  • I would normally say that frame 5 is very fast for a projectile, but it seems reasonable from Fang’s tail spring given his aim and means of attacking from such are limited. I do think frame 8 is a bit too fast for a projectile that can be aimed in any direction, even if it’s slow and doesn’t have that much power without charging it. Being able to cancel your cork fire from a tail spring and combo from it at close range is pretty fun.
  • Oil tripping fighters who dodge/dash or messing them up at the ledge reminds me of a lot of old MYM attacks and status effects. I assume that the ledge interaction just removes foes from the ledge as if another fighter grabbed it? Is just hard to tell from the way the move is described. Might be a good idea to limit how many oil patches Fang can have out - I do like the thematic of Fang being messed up by his own set-up if he gets too greedy or ambitious, but giving a limit of 2-3 patches would imbue the move with more of a modern MYM sense of restraint and prevent Fang from going too wild with oil.
  • On a side note, I like how short Side Special is, yet the move manages to convey a good amount of information.

  • I have honestly never seen a moveset incorporate that flashing invincibility from classic video games.
  • 5 seconds might be too long a recovery time for Fang’s Up Special. That duration feels like a carry-over from old MYM, as I remember bringing that issue up with Warlord’s Hydrazoa moveset in MYM16. Maybe shorten the timer to 3 seconds, but give Fang better air speed? I also like that Fang can use his Neutral and Side Specials while riding in midair, and the reader already knows what those moves do.
  • Maybe the cooldown on Aerial Up Special should be proportional to how long Fang spends hovering around. 8 seconds just feels way too long to go without your Up Special after a simple recovery, but it’s a lot more justified on the grounded version of the move.
  • Grounded Up Special is a fun move that honestly feels very unique. You get to pick one of 4 powerful options to use, but they all come with a hefty cooldown that denies Fang his recovery afterwards (though he can reduce the cooldown by damaging opponents or using Up Special again). I think the insane power behind many of these options is a fair trade-off for losing your recovery.
  • The drill is actually my favourite among Grounded Up Special’s options, especially in the context of Up Special being so high-risk. True, the drill is obscenely powerful and will instantly KO offstage opponents, which would normally be absurd. It is attached to a delayed hitbox, so opponents can potentially air dodge it, and you have to put in the effort of getting your opponent offstage within the 5 seconds it goes off. Furthermore, you need to put some work into getting the Marvelous Queen to hit an opponent to even trigger the countdown.
  • The strength of the drill’s bury hitbox on grounded opponents is not stated. It doesn’t have to be, just that modern MYM is used to this since there are buries with different levels of strength in MYM.
  • The net having 2x grab difficulty feels like another carry-over from old MYM, where grab states with 2-3x escape difficulty or so were common (they’re practically extinct in modern MYM), but it’s justified here due to the beetle effect and how powerful the Up Special options are meant to be.

While Down Special is RNG-based, I kind of love how the move is just simple, pure chaos that forces out panic dodges from fighters. It might be one of the best implementations of chaos that I’ve seen in a while. Just a few things:

  • 2 seconds of hitstun feels too long for getting hit by the fire plume, especially if that’s after the plume’s one-second duration and multi-hits. That’s way too long for Fang to get an advantage if his opponent is the one who gets trapped. I would personally change it to just 30 frames of hitstun - still a decent window for Fang to get a hit in without getting burned himself, especially when he’ll have a full second to prepare as the fire plume is raging.
  • This is going to sound really nit-picky, and you don’t have to change it at all, but I am not really a fan of making the opponent enter a “panicked” superspicy curry animation when they get burned by the plume. It makes sense as a comedic effect on Fang, as you show it off in a GIF, but making all fighters react that way to getting burned feels like forced characterization that was a thing in older MYM. It’s easy enough to just have them get burned in their usual hitstun animation.
  • It miiight be a good idea to make the fire plume only appear onstage. It would prevent Fang from randomly being able to cheese recovering opponents, something he is already very good at doing with his other Specials and tail spring, and it could create some fun synergy where, rather than just dodge, opponents could panic and go offstage to avoid getting burned if Fang is playing with fire and dancing around his own Down Special trap to threaten opponents with it. That would be especially nasty if foes had a delayed drill hounding them…
  • (On the other hand, the fire plume only extends some 3 grids upwards at most, which isn’t really going to threaten opponents recovering if the plume erupts from the bottom of the screen).

While Down Special has a number of fun things going for it, both in originality and for the characterization it offers, I don’t think it adds a lot of substance to Fang’s playstyle compared to what you’d expect from a special input. Its primary purpose seems to be to force panic dodges, but since the plume’s location is randomized the Fang player has to gamble on this and decide whether they want to attack opponents who might be dodge (or jump over where the plume might appear) or dodge themselves.

  • It is honestly refreshing to read through non-Special moves that are only 2-3 paragraphs long, being simple but still updated to modern sensibilities with frame data and the like.
  • Dash Attack traveling further when it goes over oil feels like another old MYM interaction, which is fun to see. I believe Tern did something similar with their Blastoise moveset in MYM25. I like that the movement extension applies to all fighters and not just Fang, but I’m not too sure about making other Dash Attacks that wouldn’t normally go off-stage do so.
  • “This is based on the speed and remaining distance at the moment of contact, so an early Cloud DTilt is now a slip n slide, while that same attack late is getting a little nudge.” Haven’t heard the term “slip n’ slide” in MYM for a long time!
  • “Knockback is increased by 1.2x, and shield push is increased by 7 units, making late hits safer.” While the latter could technically pose true, increasing the shieldpush foes experience could result in some Dash Attacks being -less- safe when you cross up your opponent, as foes will just get closer to your endpoint and could punish you in situations where they couldn’t normally.

Much as I like the shortness and simplicity of Fang’s moves so far, the moves don’t go into as much melee and mix-up detail as other modern sets in some areas, and this is understandable since you just returned to MYM. To give you an example with Dash Attack: the move pops opponents up (presumably upwards knockback) no matter when it hits. Base knockback is not mentioned, but it is presumably low enough that Fang could get in an air combo depending on -when- into his Dash Attack he hits. His opponent will probably be left behind him most of the time, but hitting late would leave them directly above him and allow Fang to combo his Aerials more easily. This would be especially potent with the height his tail spring can cover, and the fact that it can footstool opponents.

I like a good gimmick in regular attacks, but a number of Fang’s built-in gimmicks feel like they’re there for the sake of it or don’t feel too convincing in their uses. For instance, Fang can cancel the winding animation of his Forward Smash into a tail spring to fake out using the move and escape while opponents are on the defense against your F-Smash. Another set might use this gimmick as a mix-up: opponents who shield in anticipation of F-Smash might get caught out by an aerial approach from Fang, for instance. I guess I’m not really convinced that Fang needs this gimmick. It feels like a habit from old MYM where some moves have these types of gimmicks to make them more interesting. U-tilt’s forward tilt variation feels a little gimmicky too, but it feels more justified in its existence to some degree.

  • I like how Fang can choose to throw out his Down Smash behind himself without turning around, and in doing so shave off some of its starting lag and better punish cross-ups.
  • N-air is a neat little move for being a defensive attack that can be a good combo tool when landed at low percents. Not to mention being a direct Sonic reference. Also has consistency with Dash Attack where the attack’s power is consistent throughout.
  • B-air has a lot going for it with gimmicks. We’ve seen a few “hold the button down to release a stronger attack” in modern Aerials, like from Kupa, but bouncing off of objects and fighters is not something I’ve seen for a while. If I’m understanding correctly, bouncing off of an opponent won’t stop Fang from charging his B-air, allowing him to lock his opponent into an otherwise slow attack and whack them while he’s moving backwards if he times it right. That is actually pretty darn cool!
  • Continuing with B-air, I like that it has bonuses from your tail spring, and that it plays off of the mechanic directly.
  • U-air and D-air go into some good detail without needing extra gimmicks added on. Using U-air during tail spring to follow launched opponents is nice. I like the start-up bonus to D-air when using it while springing, and that you get to cancel the move if you bounce into the air. I could see its range being useful for catching out opponents who try to attack you as you’re landing. D-air might actually be the coolest non-Special move in Fang’s set, where the ability to cancel it by tail bouncing lets Fang further extend his combos. But… if bouncing off of the ground lets Fang bounce back up and cancel his D-air, and using D-air out of bouncing reduces its start-up to frame 3, wouldn’t that mean he can infinite his opponent? That is assuming that canceling his D-air with a bounce doesn’t deal knockback to your opponent.
  • I don’t know how aware of this you are, but attacks that deal low angled knockback will force grounded opponents into a tech situation if they are sent tumbling (take a decent enough amount of knockback). This means that the enemy player will have to press the shield button when they’re knocked into the ground to avoid being left in prone, which will lead them to getting punished if they fail. It feels like Fang’s Back Throw could do this kind of thing since it deals decent low-angled knockback. I’m sure you’ll get the hang of this kind of thing as you linger in MYM and read other stuff - it’s a very common thing to see nowadays.
  • I could see Up Throw going into a bit more detail on the combos it can do, like U-tilt at lower percents and tail-springing into U-air at higher percents, as well as pressuring opponents with charged Neutral Special shots fired upwards. There is charm to reading a 48 word long throw in modern MYM, though.
  • Maybe shorten Down Throw’s timer to one second? Two seconds might be a touch long for both players to be inactive, but it’s not a big issue. Unless Fang is not intended to have proper combo throws, it might be a good idea to just make Down Throw a simple combo throw, instead of relying on oil spill set-ups like you’re playing an old MYM set.

  • Jumping to the playstyle section, I’m surprised that you wrote up a small section for the defunct Capture the Flag game mode from the Team Fortress 2 movesets in MYM7/13.
  • Boss Mode brings back memories. Can’t wait for the Story Mode scenario where Alucard, Guts and the Dredge all have to team up to beat Fang outside of his giant mech.

Overall, Fang is a pretty solid return to MYM! A lot of his melee feels underdeveloped by modern standards (not talking about tech chasing, knockback storage with burying/pitfalls that he can do from Up Special’s drill and Down Smash) and some of it leans too heavily on oil patches to sell itself, like Dash Attack and some of the Throws, but the set has a neat mechanic and many fun and original Specials and Aerials. It shows a lot of promise for your future outings - n88 and Kupa returned with more modest entries but killed it with high-placers in their returning contests (MYM25 and 22 respectively), and I have little doubt that you’ll do the same if you stick with us since you were a very prolific setmaker back in the day.

You put a lot of work into this set for your favourite character, so I was looking forward to him and the prospect of MYM finally getting another Berserk since the Count from MYM6. I’ve been exposed to Guts a decent number of times since that set, in spite of not having properly read or watched Berserk, but I still enjoyed the raw detail that you throw out for Guts’ backstory and his powerset. In a way, I think your trend of going into detail on your characters’ canon abilities and so, which you have done since you first set with Garland, works best with main protagonists or antagonists of anime or other such story-heavy medium, as they give you a lot more to talk about.

I like the choice of colour for the doc’s background, as it reasonably matches the colour scheme of manga and feels right for the dark-and-gritty medieval setting of Berserk. You nail the idea of how Guts would work in Smash with the pre-stats playstyle section, making a mix of swordie and absolute menace if he’s willing to risk his life to get in a big attack.

  • Neutral Special is a simple projectile, but it goes into a good level of detail on its uses in Guts’s gameplan. Pressuring mid-ranged opponents to open them up for your big moves, as well as getting a possible KO against off-stage targets to make up for Guts’s lacking air game.
  • I don’t see a travel distance listed for the Neutral Special bolts. This is a minor detail, but it is worth including because how far the bolts could travel would determine how potentially Guts could get. I’d say to have them travel the distance of Sheik’s needles or halfway across Battlefield - prevents Guts from contesting against more projectile-orientated opponents too easily, but still affords his projectiles the distance necessary to zone or open up mid-ranged opponents.
  • I think it takes a bit too long for Guts to reload his crossbow at frames 20-30 - it takes him 18 frames to start firing on input, so a reader would assume that it would just as quick - if not quicker - to just not reload and repeat Neutral Special again. Granted, the move’s end lag isn’t listed, but I assume it is not too high.

What if Guts’s Neutral Special worked like this: he fires 1-5 bolts with each tap of B, doing so with faster start-up than the move has right now. Around the level of Sheik’s needles on frame 11, which would make them non-reactable and gives Guts a dirty mid-ranged move that his opponent needs to be wary of. Once the bolts are fired, the player will need to use Neutral Special again to reload more bolts over those aforementioned 20-30 frames before Guts can fire them again, regardless of how many bolts Guts fired off. This incentivizes the player to capitalize on bolt openings using Guts’ melee game, and limits how much he can fire off his bolts to ensure he can’t lean into projectile play too much. I don’t think a Guts player would benefit from reloading and re-firing more bolts as Neutral Special is written now - they’ll probably just fire off one set, then capitalize on them - so it wouldn’t matter if you scrapped that part of the set.

I suggest allowing the player to fire between 1-5 bolts so they can mix things up on hit and throw off their opponent. For instance, your opponent might expect Guts to fire off all 5 of his bolts to maximize his damage output, only for Guts to drop his fire early. This catches his opponent off-guard, which potentially leaves them open more than if he fired all 5 of his bolts! Guts then has to reload before he can fire again. Knowing how many bolts to fire, plus when to reload after firing them, while give Guts a pragmatic and tactical feel that would suit his character.

Maybe you could give the bolts a sourspot at max-range that deals a bit less damage, but no knockback? Allows Guts to consistently lock his opponent in place, as there would be times when he would prefer that over dealing them knockback so he can get in an early kill with his sword. Maybe Berserker Armour increases the hitstun foes receive from this due to being hit by more bolts, guaranteeing that some of Guts’s sword attacks connect. Neutral Special is decent as-is, but I could see the move being a lot more spicy without sacrificing its gameplay or character applications. I really hope you consider them, because I want to see this moveset be the best it can be.

  • Moving onto the next move, Up Special is a Dark Dive/Aether-style move, which really fits Guts’s character. There’s the all-or-nothing aspect of potentially diving into the abyss to your death, and using your enemies as a springboard to return from the depths of hell. I really like the idea of Guts having a recovery that trades recovery distance for power - it sells the feel of Guts being a mortal man who could die at any time, compared to the more inhuman entities in his series, and him just wanting to use a recovery input for a lethal blow seems like something he’d do. Maybe.
  • I feel like there could be more to Up Special as an attack, as you do admit that the move is primarily just a big power move that doesn’t work too well with Guts’s other moves. Maybe the slash deals extra damage against shields? That would be more than fair when Guts has to commit to his dive. Maybe there is an early hitbox around Guts, which could serve as an out-of-shield option to scoop enemies into the main attack. I did ctrl + f ahead and notice that N-air was a safe out-of-shield option for Guts, though.
  • If Guts leaps off of an opponent on hit, I could see him using that leap to further pursue them aerially. Then again, his aerial stats aren’t strong.

  • It’s kind of funny that even with a massive greatsword and a set of supernatural armour, a cannon arm is apparently Guts’s strongest tool (a bit of a hard sell here, but I guess it’s canon?). It makes sense for Guts to have such a strong attack, but I don’t think Warlock Punch makes for the most compelling Special in Smash gameplay or in a MYM set, as these moves are impractically slow to start up and don’t easily feed into the non-Specials or vice-versa. Also that Forward Smashes tend to serve the role of “big attack” in most sets.
  • Maybe Guts can cancel the start-up of his Side Special by shielding around frames 9-38? Lets him catch out opponents who were expecting a cannon to the face. Or the cannon’s recoil could push him back, maybe in midair.
  • I like the idea of a meter-boosting Special (FTR) that lets you move and attack slowly so you can defend yourself. It doesn’t specify how Guts gets meter though, or how much he gets. The increase to his lag is also not specified, but you could just say it’s by a few frames.
  • I’m guessing the Berserker Armor gives Guts passive super armour to weaker and moderate knockback. I wonder if this armour should be disabled during his end lag and/or while he’s in hitstun, just so it doesn’t disable weaker combos and punishes from enemies. Then again, Guts can only use Berserker Armor when his meter is full, and his damage is likely to be high enough that it wouldn’t take much to knock him offstage and exploit his poor recovery.
  • Yield To Me is a big crazy attack that uses up your Berserker state in one go, with results based on how much of it you had left. I assume there is no existing manga panel to use as a reference, but there’s room to sell the impact of such a powerful attack rather than say “he performs wide sword swipes.” For instance, describe Guts performing an angry scream while he’s slashing, and maybe leave a thick slash trail as he does to sell the move’s powerful visual. Based on the move taking 1.5 seconds to perform at most, I imagine that each of the slashes in YTM are slow and weighty, which would help to sell the impact of each blow. I imagine you’ll read during this contest, but Gilius Thunderhead would be a good read to see how an author incorporates the feel behind axe-based attacks.
  • YTM doesn’t have starting lag listed for it. Personally, I could see it being a huge threat when Guts starts up Berserker Mode, as it would have the raw damage to break full shields and the duration necessary to outlast spot dodges. The threat of YTM could scare opponents into not playing too defensively, but Guts also can’t afford to stall himself since he’s taking passive damage from the Berserker Armor.

  • Jab is a respectable Jab, being a combo extender and safe-on-shield move that are both useful to Guts. Like-wise, F-tilt is what you’d want and expect from a Guts regular attack.
  • On one hand, the quips beneath this set’s images go against the no-nonsense nature of Guts’s character, and would be more suited to Dr. Robotnik when you eventually get to him. On the other hand, they convey your style and personality as a writer, so it’s all good.
  • D-tilt is a fun move, not unlike Mr. Game and Watch’s Forward Air in Ultimate to some degree. It’s just nice to see this Guts’s character where he’ll use any means to win, even if it’s a delayed bomb that’s good for grounded stage control and forcing foes to approach differently.
  • U-tilt is cool for playing directly off of D-tilt, as the latter can force jump-ins that can be caught by your slow and meaty U-tilt. Guts doing a cleave with his U-tilt also seems like it would look and feel good (this is Guts we’re talking about, after all), plus there’s the spiking hitbox on the sword that pairs well with its sheer coverage. I like sweetspots on moves that give them different uses depending on where they hit.

  • Dash Attack being a sword stab is cool animation-wise, and I’m glad that you acknowledge the sword’s huge length. It feels like the move would be very good in neutral play, since it allows Guts to approach and quickly puts a long disjoint in front of him that will absolutely overwhelm and beat out most opposing hitboxes. I think this pairs well with the move’s combo-based high-angled knockback, which in turn sets up well for Guts’s U-tilt. Might be good to describe how far Guts moves while stabbing, if he does: I could see the follow-ups Guts gets from his Dash Attack varying based on where he ends up at the end of his Dash Attack, as this would vary a fair bit given the range of his sword. Ending the attack close to where Guts would strike his opponent would probably keep them closest to him horizontally and offer the best follow-up situation, but I could also see the move being unsafe against shields from that situation.
  • Forward Smash being a power move is what you’d expect from Guts, but it does make his Side Special feel redundant. I think the latter should be repurposed into a utility move, as there would be room for that given Guts is working with a cannon arm. I do like that you include a sound effect to sell F-Smash’s impact, though.
  • I wonder if Up Smash should be a multi-hitting attack, to give it a bit of variation from your similarly slow and powerful U-tilt?
  • Guts’s pummel animation is brutal.
  • B-throw’s attack name nicely conveys what I assume Guts saying or thinking in the manga panel that accompanies it. In any case, the throws are respectably simple and have their own niches in Guts’s gameplan, since grabbing is not meant to be his strong suit.

Definitely one of your best sets, Guts shows that you have a pretty good grasp on melee applications, as shown by the Standard attacks which I think were the best input section in the set. I think the next step is to create Specials and mechanics with a stronger hook or to play off of them more, as the set’s Specials have considerable room for improvement. This might be a bit of a challenge, but reading other sets should give you more of an idea of how to achieve this. Nonetheless, well done for finishing this moveset!
 
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Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
121
MAUGA (tunz)

Mauga is yet another Overwatch superheavy from you, and I at least have to give you credit for making a set for him so quickly. He’s a very close range character despite his main weapon being guns, which is fitting for the character, and I do like the idea of giving him overheal as a reward for playing well (and the way it’s implemented). Mauga’s SSpec is also a fairly fun move, being a charge that he can jump out of at any point to create a strong hitbox - something especially notable is that the armor on it allows him to approach, but also serves as a double-edged sword as it means that he can’t be saved if he jumps off stage. The rest of the set is on the more basic side, but still functional enough, and I feel that his high quantity of kill moves are justified by his generally slow speed, poor OoS options, and general heavyweight problems.

In terms of actual criticisms, DSpec’s armor seems fairly underutilized for what would be a fairly important move - you could mention cases where it helps make his slower moves safer. As a minor nitpick, you also say that most tilts could break Mauga’s armor, but 20% is a good bit over what most tilts could do - I’d suggest decreasing it to somewhere around 15%, where several but not all tilts can break it. The fire damage boon is also underutilized for from what I understand is a major part of his kit, only really used on his NSpec, and while I do believe this is how it works in-game he has way more moves in this adaptation to play off of. Mauga certainly isn’t a bad set by any means, though, just a very basic one that doesn’t do anything truly exceptional.

TORBJORN (tunz)

Torbjorn has a fairly unique style to him, in that he’s a zoner who generally wants to stay in a nest by himself. He does this by setting up a variety of turrets, including a standard turret, one that freezes the foe to slow them down, and one that serves as a trap, and placing pools of lava on the ground. I particularly like the fact that Torb has an interaction with his lava pool in DSmash that allows him to hard punish attempts to jump over it or staying in it for too long, which his variety of traps are also good for doing. His melee also seems on the “poor for direct combat but still good when they count” tier that you want them to be, like a UTilt that just counters shorthops (though the startlag isn’t actually specified - should probably be on the slower side).

The main issue I have with the set is the suggestion that Torbjorn use his traps’ low shield damage to bait the opponent into shielding so he can use his fairly strong grabs on them. While the concept is good in theory, giving the zoner a reason to use his grab beyond just defense, there’s nothing stopping the foe from rolling around it or jumping over it, and they’d have little reason to shield anyway since the turret doesn’t deal knockback and its shield damage is poor. The FTilt does work for shield-baiting since it does deal knockback and Torb can still move during the endlag, so I’d suggest retooling his kit into focusing more on anti-air/roll punishing than shield punishing. This also feeds into another note in that his aerials feel fairly underdeveloped compared to his ground tools - leaning into this could buff them up significantly, with an idea I had being making his FAir a dragdown tool (the dragdown coming from a lava bubble in Torb’s claw) that serves as a combo starter at the expense of having significantly slower startup than the archetype usually has. As one last suggestion, I’d like it if the regular turret did flinch every few seconds, to give some incentive to shield and to give the opponent added incentive to approach.

This is still a fairly good change of pace from what I normally associate with you, and the idea of a zoner who legitimately struggles in close range is something that can resonate very well with the audience. If this is edited enough, it could very well become my favorite set of yours yet!

PUMPKINMON (Salty)

Pumpkinmon is a very basic set, with the playstyle intentionally modeled after Mario’s. And it is perfectly functional, ultimately, with a good few character moments like the option to twist the knife it uses for FTilt. As there’s not really a lot to this set, the main issue here besides elaboration is the fact that Pumpkinmon seems like it could have a way more interesting playstyle from its abilities. Looking at its Savers: Another Mission movelist (which is where the DSpec comes from) it has an ability called “Surprise” where it surprises its opponent with a shout or summons an exploding pumpkin, the latter of which can be combined with its pumpkin-spawning NSpec. The SSpec also has potential to be a mechanical centerpiece since it involves Pumpkinmon tossing the ax it uses for various melee attacks as a projectile, which could alter or completely change the attacks that use it. Other than that, though, this is a fairly unremarkable set, though given the context it seems to be by design as to not overshadow the other opening day set.

THERION (Salty)

Therion is significantly more ambitious than Pumpkinmon, having a total of two mechanics. The first is his ability to steal any non-energy projectile, which is a funny way of interpreting his stealing ability but does give him good methods of approaching. Second, and most integral, is his Boost ability, allowing him to boost the knockback of his otherwise mediocre kill moves. The whole concept reminds me a lot of my Madame Verre set in terms of being a Sheik-like character with conditional extreme kill power, and it’s always an interesting archetype to play around with. I also like Therion’s more funky animations, like locking the foe inside a treasure chest with his DThrow.

In terms of legitimate criticisms, I do feel the boost mechanic as is is a bit overtuned. Therion is capable of boosting the damage (and thus knockback due to how Smash works) of his attacks by up to 4 times their usual amount, and he gains them just by fighting normally. He does need to spend a bit of time actually applying these boosts, but it still feels a bit too much for something he naturally obtains - a good bit of this can be altered by just decreasing the buff. It also irks me how he can’t grab out of shield due to how the burst mechanic is activated by grabbing while shielding, when the same function can just as easily be applied to the Shield Special input quite a few MYM sets have. Lastly, there are some attacks (UAir, Pummel, Jab) that don’t have their damage percent listed. Nevertheless, this is easily your most ambitious set yet, and a set that I’d wager is a sign of more crazy set concepts to come.

Link to full comment repository here!
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,246
Location
Australia
Nice, a modern Digimon moveset! The comparison to those Villager murder memes are a fun touch, in both the intro and Pumpkinmon being surprisingly comparable to the Villager in stats. I’m glad to see your movesets are starting with the Specials now, but other than that I don’t have too much to say here since this is a short ride and there isn’t too much of a sense of how the moves work together.

  • The Specials do a good deal of borrowing from existing Smash moves: Neutral Special is respectable, but lacking in a lot of details like knockback, lag and attack applications, making it difficult to discern how it’s meant to be used in the set.
  • Side Special is another smash-like boomerang move, but it has a neat little dynamic of disappearing when Pumpkinmon uses another move that involves its axe, limiting what it can do while the axe is flying.
  • I like F-tilt being able to add on a second hit at the cost of less shield safety. Knockback is not listed though.
  • D-air has a bit more to it, with multi-hits, a more elaborately-described animation and a fun little tap vs hold feature where you can choose to knock enemies away or drag them down with you.
  • F-throw is admittedly well over the mark for a kill throw - I believe the strongest KO throws in Smash do so from around 130% near the ledge. You’d have to have quite the grab game to be justified in having a throw that KOs at 50%, around the same power as a Falcon Punch!

  • Difficulty in finding good PNGs for certain characters is something I can sympathize with. Also, don’t think we’ve had an Octopath Traveler set yet. You have pretty good and unique tastes in franchises. I don’t mind being spoiled if you wanted to conceal spoilers in a header or highlight them with the doc’s background colour, but I appreciate not being spoiled nonetheless as I imagine some people in MYM might want to play OT.
  • Thief’s gimmicks immediately make him a more interesting read, like stealing items from enemies by grabbing them, and the boost mechanic that lets you power up your next move by building up a meter. I appreciate the clarification that boosted moves that aren’t elaborated upon deal extra hits relative to your boost count.
  • Down Special has a fun little dynamic of being able to pick between making the foe offensively or defensively weaker, or get a bit of the other with max buff. Only thing is that the move’s lag and whether it deals damage, knockback or hitstun is not stated, which makes it harder to visualize how it would play out. I assume there would be some hitstun to make the move safe on hit, for instance. Maybe slip it in while your opponent is being locked in by the PK Fire-esque Neutral Special.
  • Therion’s melee is surprisingly decent for its briskness: Dash Attack is an intentionally lackluster attack to compensate for Thief’s other strengths and its great KO potential when fully boosted, while U-tilt is combo happy and D-tilt is an interrupt tool that can semi-spike or link into Neutral Special. I like to see non-Specials feed back into the Specials.
  • Therion’s F-Smash being twice as fast as Roy’s would hilariously imply it is active on frame 6-7 and has 18 frames of end lag, giving it a total FAF of some 28 that would make it very fast for a Smash attack. You might not have been that literal about it, though.
  • Glad to see you’re conscious of boost damage scaling on D-Smash.
  • “Therion put both hands in his pockets in an edgy lonewolf kind of way, and then thrust his feet forward, which combined make for an edgy sex kick. ” This is actually a really nice animation. It would be unique in Smash and conveys a lot of character.
  • “Therion turns around, stabbing the knife behind himself, aiming for any weak spot he can find. Similar in a way to Villager’s axe; this is a move that deals 15% and kills around 125%.” Pumpkinmon would have loved this move.
  • F-throw is actually pretty good, as it links back to the Specials as a way to set up for Neutral, Side and Up Special at different percents. Nice stuff.
  • D-throw spawning a random treasure chest to kick and lock your opponent in feels very gimmicky as a throw animation, but I like its implications in the set by locking your opponent in place for stuff like Side and Down Special, with its own pros and cons compared to the standard-fare burying throws.

While the set has room for improvement, I overall found Therion to be surprisingly good for his length, as he has some legitimately interesting moves, and the application of some of his melee feels more compelling. This actually makes Therion my favourite set of yours by a good mile, so well done there!

MYM27 Comments
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
121
FANG THE HUNTER (Hypah)

Fang is a very fitting choice for a first returning set, seeing as he’s so heavily associated with the setmaker even if it wasn’t what he planned. This set uses his signature tail springing technique as a special mechanic that gives him far more ability to mix up his air mobility than most other fighters can. Most of Fang’s Specials are based around creating traps, from oil slicks on the ground to calling in his personal vehicle to perform special attacks (though it irks me that the specific inputs required to make it use specific moves aren’t stated). I particularly like the fact that all of his traps are capable of harming him, a nice way of balancing things out and being fitting for someone who frequently messes up his own schemes.

As for Fang’s other attacks, they end up a bit basic overall, but they’re perfectly functional and none of them are outright bad. He’s got plenty of means to set up for the Marvelous Queen’s attacks by stunning the foe with either pitfalls from DSmash or stuns from DThrow, and quite a few feints involving his tail spring mechanic. Fang’s aerials that interact with the mechanic are personal highlights, such as the BAir that has decreased startlag out of a bounce and his DAir gaining insane startup out of the stance. The last thing of note are the interactions with his traps, such as setting oil slicks on fire with DSpec or sliding on them to make his moves safer. The main thing keeping this from being higher on my personal rankings is that Fang’s moves aren’t as elaborated on as they could be, and the ways his aerials interact with his mechanic by virtue of the actual attacks aren’t either (for example, FAir could be a neat dragging tool due to the enhanced air speed and low to the ground shorthop). Regardless, this is still a great returning set, and given what I’ve seen from other returning MYMers has definite potential to lead into more.

GUTS (wizfoot)

Guts is a berserker character, as befitting the name of his manga, with the option to put on the Berserker Armor to get a boost in his strength and power at the expense of taking immense self damage. The idea of decreasing the timer by hitting him in the Berserker Armor state is a neat way of balancing out this effect, and his new DSpec becoming stronger the earlier into the duration it’s used adds an interesting dynamic to how to apply it. SSpec is a very cool move, a slow cannonball that instakills if it hits close enough that Guts can cancel out of at a certain point to play mindgames, fitting his surprisingly cunning character. His other moves are on the more basic side, but the powerset means that you can’t really do that much with the character and there are some cool bits in there, like UTilt having a spike hitbox and the DTilt bomb traps.

I particularly like the aspect of Guts being “high-risk, high-reward” - big unga-bunga characters like Bowser appeal to me a lot. With plenty of his moves having high startup, high endlag, or both, landing kills typically requires him to either land a read or risk heavy punishment, which is bad for him given his comboability and poor recovery. I personally would have liked to see more leaning into this aspect, for example giving Guts superarmor on some attacks (which is fitting seeing as he’s canonically willing to jump into sea monsters to kill them from the inside). From a manga as notoriously brutal as Berserk, the animations don’t really sell it; I do get that going for full blood would never fly in a Smash game, but Smash itself does have some fairly brutal moves (Ridley DSpec) to take inspiration from. As a brief example, Berserker Armor Dash Attack could have Guts impale the foe on Dragonslayer before slamming them to the ground to shake them off of it - feels brutal without having blood, and doesn’t even necessarily change its intended purpose.

While Guts could certainly have a more detailed set, this current one still ranks positively in my books, and is easily my favorite of yours.

PROFESSOR LAYTON (Potted Plant)

Welcome to MYM, Plant! Layton’s a fairly popular pick for Smash from my quite extensive experience with Smash speculation, so it’s a bit weird that it took this long for someone to post a set from him here.

Right off the bat, it’s clear that this is meant to be more of a demonstration of an ideal moveset to showcase to the Layton support base rather than something to be posted competitively. There’s nothing bad about this approach, in fact most sets here are made out of appreciation for the characters they are made for, but by this contests’ standards it is very underdetailed. As a demonstration, however, this is quite good! Layton, being from a game based on solving puzzles, should have a more patient gameplan than other characters, and basing his attacks on the puzzles he solves is probably the right thing to do, since he’s generally not a fighter in his home series and they’re central to his and his series’ identity.

The main gimmick provided is Hint Coins, which here allow Layton to gain a boost to his states. The way it works is very interesting, where he can either spend one of a limited supply to gain a small buff or spend all of them to gain a much stronger buff, a fittingly cerebral concept for a cerebral character and in line with how they’re described to work in the games. Layton’s moves also fit this gameplan, with a FTilt where the first hit is meant for parrying attacks rather than being an attack and a BAir with an angleable sweetspot. His specials are interesting as well, with his NSpec being a mobile turret he can activate on demand but has to put time into building first and a SSpec based on block puzzles that applies various effects based on the specific piece used. I quite like the aesthetic behind Layton’s grab, where he “grabs” with the UI from his games since grabbing hands-on is out of character for a gentleman and his throws are performed by his much more physically adept assistant. Lastly, I have to admire the artwork drawn for all of his moves, which give the reader a clear image of what the attack is meant to look like.

While I’m not a Professor Layton fan, I can still appreciate the thought that went into making a set for the character that tries to get across his essence as much as possible in a fighting game. The only real “issue” is that the contest it was posted in has far more detail than most other Smash moveset concepts; otherwise, it’s an excellent showcase of Layton’s potential.

Link to full comment repository here!
 
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Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,286
Location
Hippo Island
Gilius Thunderhead by BridgesWithTurtles
I have a few memories of playing the 2nd Golden Axe in an arcade as a wee lad, so this is a nostalgia-adjacent moveset for me.

Combining meaty axe swings and grappling is an innately fun concept, as all us MYM heavyweight mains (and Byleth spammers) can attest to. UTilt got a laugh out of me how it's a "stab up" attack that still has horizontal coverage because the axe is so damn wide. FTilt and FAir are much appreciated for giving him something to consistently apply pressure once he's in, and FAir is sure to be a popular attack just for the held variant's animation. While they're not axe strikes, I do like BAir and DAir, it feels right to give this dwarf a couple pure physical brawling attacks for when things escalate in a tavern. If DAir lands the final blow it had better make the screen flash like in the GIF.

The grabs are all good fun animations, and very powerful. Love how, like a beat-em-up, he has some particularly strong FFA damage in his FThrow and BThrow. Giving him a few extra "inputs" for throws is quite fitting considering how often he'll be using these as combo enders.

The pummel is getting its own section because it's effing awesome. "Gilius you can stop bashing him, you've already got 4 pots." "I can fit in a few more, every bit of extra damage helps." "Gilius NOOOOOOOoooooooo!"

Onto that magic stuff. Tying pot acquisition to the grabs is a nice way to reward successfully getting in while keeping his general combos short. I love me some short-but-impactful combos. I also love combos that can be made longer through prior set-up, which the magic allows! I can't wait to charge an FSmash while the level 2 bolts bring the enemy to me, and level 3 magic is the MYM classic "sticky bomb" effect that will surely lead to silly (and cool) moments. Besides the pot stuff, DSMash and USmash strike a good balance between adding some fancy area-denial while not overshadowing the berserker axe grappling we're playing Gilius for in the first place.

The Chicken-leg is a highlight for me, the mounts are one of the things I distinctly remember from Adder's Revenge. It also reminds me of a special I made way back in MYM6, but this one is much more thought-out! Being able to dismount mid-attack is a really nice way to give the mount some versatility without having to make another half-moveset. Love how it's true to the games and allows players to smack each other off it and take it for themselves. It feels like it would be really satisfying for Gilius to DAir someone in the face before landing atop his noble steed once more. The one thing I don't like about it is that it becomes a generic meat slab when it dies instead of a chicken leg :laugh:

In conclusion, great work! It's clear you have a lot of love for Golden Axe, and that translated to making a moveset that captures both the beat-em-up and fantasical sides of the games.
 
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BrazilianGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
37
you can tell this was meant to start in October by the spooky sets, speaking of them

I know nothing of Digimon, but hey this guy has a funky lil design, I like him, he has "do crime" energy. I also liked learning about him and seeing how you characterize him, bringing elements of different Pumpkinmons onto a big pumpkin stew feels like the best way to go. And his moves, while pretty simple, all work well for him and are described well. I think however, that the balance is a bit iffy, Down Throw (A Snake like crumple) into Down Special (A move described to be able to deal up to 30% if done close range) feels pretty cheap. Add to that his Forward Throw killing at 50% at ledge (granted its not specified if its against a mario or someone else) and his Up Smash doing basically everything (fast, combos, pressures shields, out of shield option, anti-air, kills, does taxes for you) with the main drawback being its horizontal range, but again, Down Throw is there, feels like there could be some reconsideration in some moves. Also I feel like he is more of a rushdown than an all arounder but thats just my interpretation. All in all Pumpkimon is charming, does justice to the character, is a quick read but has weird balance and Idk I think there could be a lot more. I did love the alts and extras, a Jack-O-Lantern/10

Dredge is one of the killers that came after I had my DBD phase, and it has honestly the most horrific design from that game, genuinely don't even know what it looks like at times, and thats since you first showed it in the FFC server, this thing still gives me the freaks. But with an unique body comes an unique challenge of putting them in Smash, and you went all in with giving Dredge all sorts of weird monstrous things, it summons dead horses, it has multiple arms reaching out of it's chest, the deer forward air that also took me by surprise with the banger line of "This desecration of Bambi’s burial site" thats hilarious. You do a great job at selling how unsettling Dredge can be, fear factor gets enhanced by the big brain locker teleports and smoke screens. Speaking of which, some clarification on the Neutral Special meter would be cool. I also didn't understand the perk activation of Darkness Revealed, like is it limited to 3 as in the UI or? And lastly I don't think Down Tilt needed that extra paragraph, feels like a bit much when Up Tilt also has an extra effect that interacts with the Special. But I really like all other moves, Grab and Throws being the highlight, love the idea of all the hands coming to grab from all around Dredge and it having the DBD carry is super clever. I trully liked this abomination's moveset, very good job a ManMadeHorrorBeyondMyComprehension/10

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FazDude

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
3,022
Location
Wherever good books are sold.
Diggy Diggy Hole (Gilius Thunderhead by BridgesWithTurtles BridgesWithTurtles )
  • Making Gilius feel clunky in homage to his original games is an understandable move, but not one I'm big on personally. I've never really liked that kind of flow on Mega Man and the Belmont's kits, so I don't think I'd like it much on Gilius, either. Again, not really a fault on the moveset itself, just something I'm not a huge fan of.
  • That said, Gilius' actual mechanics are cool - Grabbing out of his stronger axe moves sounds really fun, and plays really well into gathering Magic Pots given how pummels/throws are how you get them. Really cool synergy between two mechanics!
  • The Neutral Special is really fun - Letting Gilius get hit by his spells to amp up his next axe attack is neat, and having the Level 1-2 spells have elements that allow Gilius to close the gap between him and the opponent suits his playstyle very well. If it were up to me, I'd make it so you could use weaker versions of spells while having pots of a higher level (maybe tap/hold variants like Hero's specials), but that's a small nitpick.
  • Rolling Axe is solid - Not super exciting, but giving Gilius a low-commital option that can be used for mixups is neat.
  • Up Special has a lot of cool ideas - An Aether that isn't always guaranteed to hit the stage is fun and gives Gilius something to think about at higher elevations, which is helped by the fact that he doesn't go into freefall. Giving the apex of the arc its own distinct hitbox is also hype - Would go nuts if it took a set at a tourney.
  • Chicken-Leg is a great semi-stance change tool with clear strength and weaknesses when compared to a solo Gilius. Plus, being able to get monster meat is morbidly hilarious.
  • Gilius' grab game is great - Forward and Back Throw letting him use the opponent as a makeshift projectile is insanely fun and I wish more fighters had something like that.
  • Overall, a really fun set that shows a lot of respect for the source material without being overbearing! Good work!
Nack Nack, Who's There? (Fang by Hyper_Ridley Hyper_Ridley )
  • Already, the fighter ability is really fun and I can see it having some great applications with Fang's moveset.
  • Neutral Special is simple, but neat - Letting Fang shoot while bouncing around is exactly the kind of synergy I was hoping the mechanic would be building up to, and letting him fire [[BIG SHOT]]s with cartoony recoil and buckshotting is perfectly on brand for Fang.
  • God, Oil Ball sounds dirty to use. Imagine slipping someone off an edge and then Tail Springing them into the abyss. I dunno if this was intentional, but I love it.
  • The Marvelous Queen being the multifaceted tool it is is pretty fun - Letting it be his recovery tool as well as a strong grounded option is an interesting concept balanced out well by its cooldown mechanics. Having the Queen appear at the top of the screen makes it consistent, which is perfect for the scheming Fang who's always up to some sort of sneaky trap or mixup. Again, having Fang suspectible to the Queen's attacks is very in-character.
  • Flaretrigger is a pretty simple move, but a fun one. Giving it synergy with Side Special is neat.
  • The normals are great - Letting Fang throw around his big ol' tail makes for an interesting change of pace compared to most Sonic characters.
  • Loving all the bonus content; Anything that references Triple Trouble is automatically goated. Plus, his victory interactions with Sonic and Eggman are cool; More sets should do this!
  • If your PFP didn't give it away, this set would give me the idea you love Fang as a character (and to your credit, Fang is a cool bloke), and you absolutely did him justice with this moveset! A perfect blend of his scheming nature and his tendancy to be hoist by his own petard; Excellent stuff!
 
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Potted Plant

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 3, 2024
Messages
6
Hello, everyone! New here (literally just made my account yesterday), and I'd like to submit my moveset for Professor Layton for your consideration.


The more technical side of moveset creation is where I stumble a little (knockback angles, specific damage percentages, etc.), so it's a little lacking there. That said, this moveset does have commissioned visuals for every major move (and a few others besides), so hopefully that helps convey what the move is going for.

Best of luck to everyone entering!
 

Zakawer2

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Messages
13

This is a little factoid from SmashWiki's falling speed and gravity pages that I highlighted over on Reddit a while back. Many of you might not be aware of this, but it'll help you make more accurate estimations of whether or not a character is vulnerable to combos, as well as which combos your custom movesets should use against which characters in various matchups.

Also, this fact means that vulnerability to vertical combos and vertical survivability is determined purely by weight, not by falling speed or gravity. Weight-independent knockback is unaffected by this change, however, and neither are meteor smashes (including ones done against grounded opponents).

For example, Banjo & Kazooie's Breegull Blaster→up tilt KO confirm vertically KOs both Falco (a fast-faller) and Rosalina (a floaty) on Final Destination starting at exactly 101% (no DI, rage or staling is taken into account). Falco and Rosalina have exactly the same weight value of 82 units; this means that despite him being a fast-faller with a fast falling speed and very high gravity, and her being a floaty with a slow falling speed and very low gravity, the two have completely identical vertical survivability and are equally vulnerable to most of the same vertical combos. However, Falco's faster falling speed and gravity make him more vulnerable to Minecraft Steve's down throw→jab/forward tilt combo at 0%, whereas Rosalina is instead more vulnerable to Minecraft Steve's pick loops at 0% (or would be if it weren't for Luma physically getting in the way of Minecraft Steve's moves).
 
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Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,246
Location
Australia
Welcome to MYM, Potted Plant! Don’t worry if your set is lacking in technical details we’re used to: everyone has to start somewhere, and you’ll pick up tricks as you learn through observation and criticism.

Knowing that this set has commissioned images, it’s clear that a lot of love and passion was put into it, especially when half of the set is made up of extras. Not many people commission images to put in their movesets, but I really respect those who go that far, so far as to spend money to get unique images for their moveset. I’m a big fan of when movesets make a conscious attempt to translate the set’s character (and gameplay, if applicable) into Smash, just as this set does by conveying the core aspects of Professor Layton and his games and determining the former’s playstyle based on those.

Some movesets do an extra write-up with their stats section and describe how the stats affect their fighter’s playstyle, or the general feel to how they handle. It is not essential, but it does strike me as something you might be interested in. I imagined Layton as being comparable to Villager in stats if he were in Smash, being slow and a bit floaty, but easy to handle, and that seems to be how he works here.

I enjoy the Hint Coin trivia on Down Special, and how it represents the limited resource aspect to Layton’s games that the moveset previously mentioned. I did play a Layton game once, the one that stars Professor Layton’s daughter (I’m a sucker for lightweight female protagonists), only to find that puzzle games weren’t for me. That game did strike me as having a lot of creative set potential in all the different puzzles you could lift material from, like one with a cannon iirc.

  • Now that we’ve gotten to our first picture, I do have a nitpick - the text in the white box is a bit too small. It’s not unreadable, but I did have to focus a bit to read it. Is it possible to increase the size of these Special images?
  • On a different note, having a visual of the Hint Coins being displayed on Layton’s UI is very helpful.
  • I’m glad to see a specific damage multiplier for the Hint Coins, and reasonable multipliers at that, but it would be nice to know exactly how long each buff lasts for. Something like 3 or 5 seconds, for instance.
  • Hint Coins applying a damage multiplier could be considered basic compared to some of the buffing effects on display in MYM, but it’s executed in a pretty interesting way (limited resource) that meshes very well with their in-game application, both for helping players progress and needing to be used carefully. They mesh well with Layton’s character by rewarding players who are patient like him. There are also the Special buffs that you get from your once-per-stock Super Hint. I don’t think the coins could have been easily implemented in any other way.
  • It is generally advised to list all 4 Specials at the start of a moveset, as they provide the “hook” for the rest of the moveset to play off of, but I appreciate that this set puts its crucial Down Special at the start.

Onto the main moveset. On one hand, Jab doesn’t bring up what the move does as an attack or its gameplay applications, which is fair since you just started. On the other hand, I’m fond of the trivia behind the move, which makes for an entertaining read in itself. It’s a great choice for Layton’s Jab, as well as the joke behind Layton not having a “gentleman” Jab. Actually, while the move technically doesn’t describe Jab, the control scheme listed in the image itself does imply that the move is a rapid Jab.

  • Dash Attack really makes me appreciate this set’s commissioned images, as the move has a relatively elaborate animation (the image is very cool actually, it has a lot of personality behind it between Layton swinging his arm and his facial expression). It’s the first move that has a noted application in Layton’s moveset. Could see it being quite powerful when Hinted at.
  • Keeping Layton’s fencing skills on one move is a very smart way of implementing it character-wise: he doesn’t lean fully into fencing in his games, and it lets players see all the other stuff he’s capable of. I like the move’s implications as a defensive hitbox (which goes great with Layton’s playstyle and character of being the one to defend and not instigate sword fighters), but I would like to know the attack’s properties and what it can offer Layton. Maybe the first hit has counter properties of sorts, which can leave foes open to the second hit?
  • D-tilt is a neat move from a character and cosmetic perspective.
  • N-air has a fun animation, but like Jab and other moves before it its uses in Layton’s playstyle are not elaborated-upon.
  • F-air is a fun move conceptually, which has the power to reflect projectiles (while being compared to a Master Hand move in Ultimate) on different angles, but requires the player to think and manually input an angle just like in the games. I could see the mirror itself having radial knockback, AKA knocking your opponent in whichever direction the mirror was angled, so it could be used as a versatile set-up move to make up for being a bit slow and weak.
  • B-air is a very funny-looking hitbox. Love the little smile on Layton’s face as he uses the move.
  • I like that Layton doesn’t spike opponents with his D-air because he is a gentleman.
  • I really like the DS-style visuals behind Layton’s grab, and the design choice to weaponize Emmy instead of having Layton deal the heavy lifting. The images come to the rescue again as they provide extra flavour: it’s fun to see Layton’s reactions to Emmy’s various throws in each image.

  • Neutral Special is legitimately fun and unique as a move, since it’s a multi-stage charge-and-store projectile that functions as a trap.
  • “This isn’t Snake’s Nikita, where you can actively hunt down your opponent with your controllable projectile. Layton’s block encourages active anticipation of your opponent's plan of action.” I like this line in Side Special. This is another fun move, which makes sense since it takes inspiration from Pac-Man’s Neutral Special and takes from an iconic Layton puzzle.
  • A recovery that is inspired by and adheres to the rules of chess is really cool, as you and your opponent have to outthink each other like in a real game of chess.

General lack of move details does hold back Layton a lot for me, as that makes it hard for me to discern how they work in the grand scheme of Layton’s playstyle. Like, how they play into his game of being defensive and patient (self-explanatory at times given the big hitboxes he has, but still), or the benefits they can receive from Hint Coins. Neutral and Side Special have a lot of potential in particular, like the latter’s varying effects that opponents would have to account for in neutral if Layton has a certain block stored up (like the purple block to threaten shields, or the red block to bury and start unique combos through knockback storage). On the other hand, the sheer extras and flavour behind this set made it a very fun read and easily make up for its technical shortcomings. I don’t know if you’re going to stick around or have other sets in the works, but this is a pretty strong start from you.

On a final note, I enjoyed reading your closing thoughts and how much the Layton franchise means to you, which certainly explains why you went so far with this set. They seem like a great series of games.
 

Potted Plant

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 3, 2024
Messages
6
Welcome to MYM, Potted Plant! Don’t worry if your set is lacking in technical details we’re used to: everyone has to start somewhere, and you’ll pick up tricks as you learn through observation and criticism.

Knowing that this set has commissioned images, it’s clear that a lot of love and passion was put into it, especially when half of the set is made up of extras. Not many people commission images to put in their movesets, but I really respect those who go that far, so far as to spend money to get unique images for their moveset. I’m a big fan of when movesets make a conscious attempt to translate the set’s character (and gameplay, if applicable) into Smash, just as this set does by conveying the core aspects of Professor Layton and his games and determining the former’s playstyle based on those.

Some movesets do an extra write-up with their stats section and describe how the stats affect their fighter’s playstyle, or the general feel to how they handle. It is not essential, but it does strike me as something you might be interested in. I imagined Layton as being comparable to Villager in stats if he were in Smash, being slow and a bit floaty, but easy to handle, and that seems to be how he works here.

I enjoy the Hint Coin trivia on Down Special, and how it represents the limited resource aspect to Layton’s games that the moveset previously mentioned. I did play a Layton game once, the one that stars Professor Layton’s daughter (I’m a sucker for lightweight female protagonists), only to find that puzzle games weren’t for me. That game did strike me as having a lot of creative set potential in all the different puzzles you could lift material from, like one with a cannon iirc.

  • Now that we’ve gotten to our first picture, I do have a nitpick - the text in the white box is a bit too small. It’s not unreadable, but I did have to focus a bit to read it. Is it possible to increase the size of these Special images?
  • On a different note, having a visual of the Hint Coins being displayed on Layton’s UI is very helpful.
  • I’m glad to see a specific damage multiplier for the Hint Coins, and reasonable multipliers at that, but it would be nice to know exactly how long each buff lasts for. Something like 3 or 5 seconds, for instance.
  • Hint Coins applying a damage multiplier could be considered basic compared to some of the buffing effects on display in MYM, but it’s executed in a pretty interesting way (limited resource) that meshes very well with their in-game application, both for helping players progress and needing to be used carefully. They mesh well with Layton’s character by rewarding players who are patient like him. There are also the Special buffs that you get from your once-per-stock Super Hint. I don’t think the coins could have been easily implemented in any other way.
  • It is generally advised to list all 4 Specials at the start of a moveset, as they provide the “hook” for the rest of the moveset to play off of, but I appreciate that this set puts its crucial Down Special at the start.

Onto the main moveset. On one hand, Jab doesn’t bring up what the move does as an attack or its gameplay applications, which is fair since you just started. On the other hand, I’m fond of the trivia behind the move, which makes for an entertaining read in itself. It’s a great choice for Layton’s Jab, as well as the joke behind Layton not having a “gentleman” Jab. Actually, while the move technically doesn’t describe Jab, the control scheme listed in the image itself does imply that the move is a rapid Jab.

  • Dash Attack really makes me appreciate this set’s commissioned images, as the move has a relatively elaborate animation (the image is very cool actually, it has a lot of personality behind it between Layton swinging his arm and his facial expression). It’s the first move that has a noted application in Layton’s moveset. Could see it being quite powerful when Hinted at.
  • Keeping Layton’s fencing skills on one move is a very smart way of implementing it character-wise: he doesn’t lean fully into fencing in his games, and it lets players see all the other stuff he’s capable of. I like the move’s implications as a defensive hitbox (which goes great with Layton’s playstyle and character of being the one to defend and not instigate sword fighters), but I would like to know the attack’s properties and what it can offer Layton. Maybe the first hit has counter properties of sorts, which can leave foes open to the second hit?
  • D-tilt is a neat move from a character and cosmetic perspective.
  • N-air has a fun animation, but like Jab and other moves before it its uses in Layton’s playstyle are not elaborated-upon.
  • F-air is a fun move conceptually, which has the power to reflect projectiles (while being compared to a Master Hand move in Ultimate) on different angles, but requires the player to think and manually input an angle just like in the games. I could see the mirror itself having radial knockback, AKA knocking your opponent in whichever direction the mirror was angled, so it could be used as a versatile set-up move to make up for being a bit slow and weak.
  • B-air is a very funny-looking hitbox. Love the little smile on Layton’s face as he uses the move.
  • I like that Layton doesn’t spike opponents with his D-air because he is a gentleman.
  • I really like the DS-style visuals behind Layton’s grab, and the design choice to weaponize Emmy instead of having Layton deal the heavy lifting. The images come to the rescue again as they provide extra flavour: it’s fun to see Layton’s reactions to Emmy’s various throws in each image.

  • Neutral Special is legitimately fun and unique as a move, since it’s a multi-stage charge-and-store projectile that functions as a trap.
  • “This isn’t Snake’s Nikita, where you can actively hunt down your opponent with your controllable projectile. Layton’s block encourages active anticipation of your opponent's plan of action.” I like this line in Side Special. This is another fun move, which makes sense since it takes inspiration from Pac-Man’s Neutral Special and takes from an iconic Layton puzzle.
  • A recovery that is inspired by and adheres to the rules of chess is really cool, as you and your opponent have to outthink each other like in a real game of chess.

General lack of move details does hold back Layton a lot for me, as that makes it hard for me to discern how they work in the grand scheme of Layton’s playstyle. Like, how they play into his game of being defensive and patient (self-explanatory at times given the big hitboxes he has, but still), or the benefits they can receive from Hint Coins. Neutral and Side Special have a lot of potential in particular, like the latter’s varying effects that opponents would have to account for in neutral if Layton has a certain block stored up (like the purple block to threaten shields, or the red block to bury and start unique combos through knockback storage). On the other hand, the sheer extras and flavour behind this set made it a very fun read and easily make up for its technical shortcomings. I don’t know if you’re going to stick around or have other sets in the works, but this is a pretty strong start from you.

On a final note, I enjoyed reading your closing thoughts and how much the Layton franchise means to you, which certainly explains why you went so far with this set. They seem like a great series of games.
Thank you for your kind words! Will definitely look more into updating the moves with specific data (at the very least, updating each moves description to have a more explicit purpose in his gameplan). The notion about giving fair radial knockback was rather insightful. That could combo especially well with his neutral special trap.

I'll definitely be sticking around for a while yet. Currently working on movesets for:
Pico (F-ZERO)
Savvy Stylist (Style Savvy)
Tethu & Esna (Ever Oasis)
Torterra (Pokémon)
Wilfre (Drawn to Life) (this one just needs reformatting, also got commission art in the pipeline)
and Ms. PictoChat (PictoChat) (yes, the PictoChat equivalent to Mr. Game and Watch).

Apologies if this is a little brief, it's quite late where I am. Looking forward to what everyone else is cooking up!

P.S. This is somewhat incidental, but Katrielle's game is rather notorious in the fanbase for being the weakest entry in the series to date.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,246
Location
Australia
Beedrill is a fun little take on poison in Pokemon games, with an incentive for opponents to get aggressive on you to remove it and a Special Pummel that deals more damage and knockback when you have more poison stacks on an opponent. Rage takes advantage of Smash’s rage mechanic as I’d like, where Beedrill fittingly gets a higher rage threshold than other fighters in exchange for being light and thus difficult for it to read that threshold. Focus Energy is unique in that it allows Beedrill to add a sweetspot to its stinger moves, which the player is allowed to choose so they can get specific rather than just have the buff be applied to Beedrill’s next move. Adding extra end lag on this attack might be a bit unnecessary of a downside, since you already have to go through a charging animation and the sweetspot is expended regardless of whether the move hits or misses.

  • I like F-Smash’s application of Pursuit as an anti-roll option + tech chase, and spike against airborne opponents. Nicer is the move’s synergy with Focus Energy, which makes the move risky to shield against if Beedrill has a stack of Focus Energy saved up.
  • U-Smash is a legitimately cool move, since it deals more damage the less shield damage you have and thus works very well as an out-of-shield punish. Also never thought about characterizing a territorial character by giving them a deadly out-of-shield punish.
  • I like D-Smash as an aggressive tool that focuses on frontal assaults and leaves Beedrill exposed from behind.
  • N-air is a neat pressure tool, and smartly-designed around Beedrill’s rage mechanics by implementing set knockback to make its follow-ups consistent.
  • Interesting that “variable launch angle Forward Aerials,” seem to be a semi-common trope among your recent sets. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. It’s a neat combo move that takes advantage of Beedrill’s high air speed.
  • Beedrill has a neat dynamic of having slow-ish ground moves to compensate for its great air game and fast dashing speed, yet its grounded moves still absolutely have their uses.
  • F-tilt’s pseudo-counter properties work well with Beedrill’s need to dodge attacks to keep its poison going. I could even see it being useful from a dash turnaround.
  • D-tilt gets surprisingly mileage out of Focus Energy by starting tech chases early.
  • I was taken aback by the Grab Game skipping the grabbing description until I remembered that the Grab was mentioned earlier in the set. That’s what I get for pausing reading on this set at the N-air and coming back 5 hours later.
  • I could see Fell Stinger’s exact benefits being difficult for players to find out by themselves, being on a throw rather than a Special (what if Poison Jab and Fell Stinger were combined…?) that they might not know is meant to represent the Pokemon attack Fell Stinger, but I like seeing the move’s in-game effects applied here. Fell Stinger has a lot of potential for cool tricks in Pokemon movesets.

Overall, Beedrill was a surprisingly good modern Pokemon moveset, making good use of its characteristics and interpretation of its Abilities and the moves in its movepool. The poison mechanics aren’t as mainstream as Neutral Special’s status as the first move would imply, but Beedrill’s combo, rage and Focus Energy game certainly shone. The bee felt notably better than Alucard for their notable lengths, and actually better than many of your solo Jamcon outings.

The newest Froy remake Touhou set, right off the bat we get a unique mechanic in a meter that can fill up by having opponents look into your eyes! I feel like I’ve exhausted the duplicate concept on my end due to ninjas, but I enjoy seeing others do it. There’s a nice control scheme here, tap to make Reisen attack and hold to make her clone attack, where the shieldstun reduction reminds me of the balance quirks I made to Mai and Yui. Having a unique Held Shield Special to automatically enter madness in training mode is a nice touch - if all our MYM sets were playable in a Smash game, they might have to implement a “meter button” or something along those lines that allows you to adjust the meters and mechanics of fighters who have them. But I digress.

  • Neutral Special is a pretty simple but fun bullet projectile that becomes more bullet hell-like with a clone. The ability to alter the projectiles’ properties also makes a lot of sense for a Touhou character, especially Reisen. The forward and backwards variants of the bullet are particularly fun, where the latter can mess with opponents who manage to get between Reisen and her bullet. It feels a bit like a micro Patchouli Special, but that might just be me making comparisons to your Touhou sets.
  • You don’t have to do this, but I think Neutral Special should probably have its starting lag increased a little, to around frame 17-18. A projectile that can be aimed in one of 8 directions is a pretty potent thing in my books, not really something you see in Smash, especially when Reisen can get funky with different projectile variants and really benefits when the clone is able to fire in her stead. The extra start-up would make it easier for players to control the move, since it can be aimed and needs to be double-tapped to alter its properties, and makes the move a bit less overwhelming in my opinion.
  • Side Special is more simple of a move from such a big set, but it has some interesting dynamics at play: it’s stronger at close range, easier said than done given its start-up, but the projectile gets taller but weaker the farther it flies out.
  • Down Special has some unique flavour for a smokescreen, in the form of invisibility if the opponent gets too close to your field, but a player tag enables players to still see Reisen. It’s reasonable enough as a smokescreen when it has a lengthy cooldown after use, and the fact that foes can hit Reisen with good knockback to make it go away early is cool since it incentivizes them to go offensive in spite of not knowing what Reisen is up to. I also like that the “smokescreen” follows Reisen around rather than sitting in place like a literal smokescreen, making it easier to utilize in practice. It works particularly well with your Neutral Special projectiles! Probably one of the cooler smokescreen moves I’ve seen in recent times.
  • Up Special is a simple recovery, but functions finely as a way to control the clone’s position.

  • Madness F-Smash when you can have a clone charge it, deny a section of the stage and scare opponents out of shielding. It’s easy to forget that the clone’s attacks don’t deal as much knockback.
  • U-Smash has some nice synergy with F-Smash, where the former can catch out jump-ins from the latter.
  • The little Jab 1 is surprisingly detailed, but held back by its short range and Reisen’s slow movement speed.
  • F-tilt has some nice variety to it, and its tech-chase actually has some very cool mix-up applications when combined with invisibility, like F-tilt vs F-Smash to cover different rolls and NSpec to force quick get-ups. There is also Reisen being able to punish faster by making a clone use F-tilt to leave foes prone, and bouncing your projectiles back and forth once and making your Side Special waves taller through this.
  • I like how D-tilt introduces a layer of Reisen having weak combos and KOs without her clone, to compensate for her projectile game being pretty powerful.

  • I think N-air is more potent as a KO move than you give it credit for, since it’s a fast single-hit that deals radial knockback. That means she could easily knock an offstage opponent diagonally downwards with precise positioning. Other than that, the ability to ping-pong your opponent between you and your clone with good precision is fun.
  • B-air is a fun locking move for clones with platforms.
  • Oh, held D-air is a very unique stall-then-fall! I like it. I also like the nuances of Reisen’s stall-then-fall being able to potentially mimic her regular and fastfalling speeds to make it a more convincing mindgame during invisibility, which can make the held version easier and safer to land.
  • I like grab being slower and harder to land in exchange for needing to be baited, which makes it more balanced with your clones and invisibility.
  • F-throw has a unique cargo timer. It has nice mix-ups with invisibility, and works well for repositioning purposes with your clone.
  • Like-wise, B-throw gets some mindgame mileage with invisibility using projectiles. It’s an especially fun throw when you can have one of the Reisens knock your opponent around or lock them to make the final stronger projectile more effective.
  • Yep, these throws are having fun with mindgames, and U-throw is unique for having an optional big kill that discourages your opponent from staying up in the air after use. Its combo potential to pop opponents into the hitbox’s effective range when used with a clone is fun. This set definitely has a good grab game going for it. And D-throw works nicely as a move that starts out as a combo option that gets more effective with higher insanity meter, before it ultimately becomes a kill where the foe’s percent is likely to be high.

While she is not Remilia, or Hina Merrel in taking the duplicate genre to its absolute extreme, Reisen is nonetheless a very solid set for her neat take on your trademark mix-ups, and pretty good sense of balance on what could otherwise be some very overpowered highs she can reach. It also does a good job of exploring mindgames through your invisibility, like empty F-air being a good way to bait out for F-tilt.
 

FazDude

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
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Location
Wherever good books are sold.
This Reminds Me Of A Puzzle! (Professor Layton by Potted Plant Potted Plant )
  • I love seeing people lay out their design philosophies, and your writeup has me intrigued on how you handle a more patient, cerebral character like Layton right out of the gate.
  • Interpreting the Hint Coins as an install is actually genius, especially since you're forced to use them wisely due to an inability to get more aside from starting a new stock.
    • I would change the Jab in this respect, though - It looks great and is a cute little nod to Layton's games, but I feel like it makes a little less sense to have Layton find a Hint Coin and not be able to use it later. I feel like there's some way to keep the general theming of the move without this little detail getting in the way, but I'll leave that to the Layton experts around here - It's overall a great move, just one that has a smidge of awkwardness.
  • The tilts are really fun and cute nods to the games without feeling like they don't fit together. Down Tilt is especially cool.
  • I am a little lost on Nair - Does the initial scale balancing work as a weaker hit that can combo into the larger hit when the big weights show up? It's a fun visual, but doesn't give me the best idea on what the move actually does.
  • Forward and Back Air are both really neat; Having stuff like an anglable kill move and reflector feel like the big brain moves a cerebral character like Layton should have.
  • The grab made me chuckle; It's silly, but given how you already use allusions to tapping repeatedly to find Hint Coins, it feels right at home on Layton. Having Emmy appear to help with the throws also works really well with his characters; I can't imagine Layton throwing people around, so this is a perfect substitute.
  • Neutral Special is great - Having a stage control tool is cerebral as is, but giving Layton the ability to move it around and encouraging him to protect it adds to the puzzle vibes of the set as a whole.
  • Side Special is neat - Letting Layton switch between blocks for different purposes contributes to the puzzle-solving gameplay he's built around and lets him adapt to different situations, which I guess isn't too surprising when it's built off Pac-Man's Neutral B. I would like to suggest that Layton be able to store projectiles, though - Saving the right block for the right time while having it ready to go would be a great compliment to Layton's cerebral nature.
  • Up Special is really fun - Giving Layton the ability to move around as much as he wants is a fun way to encourage mixups, but also has limits to ensure he can't get too crazy.
  • Layton's animations have me sold on him on their own - The idea of having a fighter who has no real fighting experience barring swordplay and is just hanging around and being a calm, collected chap is one I've always loved.
  • Overall, a really nice first set! It's got a few rough patches and some moves could use a bit more elaboration, but we've all been there, so don't feel discouraged - This was a great read and I'm excited to see what other sets you make!
 
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