UserShadow7989
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2007
- Messages
- 314
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Ahh, thank you so much for the comment! I'll admit that there wasn't much proofreading when I finished the set,which is why there was some confusion. I had some ideas that were there before I removed them, which is why I had that sentence about the Hollow getting hit screwing Astor over in the later stages of the game. Also I meant to say Down Special, and you CAN use it again, it'll only be the Pool of Malice though, which is yet another mistake of not proofreading. I also probably should've been more specific about how the Hollow works and the implications behind it, but some of the ideas you gave for it I'll definitely consider.Another AwfulBeast moveset, another Hyrule Warriors moveset. Once again, I love the intro write-up, as it showcases Astor’s character more compellingly than a simple tell-based write-up.
I had the impression that Astor would outdo Lana from his wordcount alone, and that is further evident by his very unique concepts. He has a AoE field that his Calamity-based attacks can’t move past, which gets even more juicy when he can turn that field into a barrier around himself! You can use this barrier to lock foes out or cage them in, but it’s perfectly balanced in every way I’d want it to be. No cheesing recoveries, attacks will still launch opponents through the barrier to KO them, and outsiders can attack the barrier to damage Astor’s shield.
The Side Special Hollow is further reminiscent of old popular MYM concepts, as it gives you a Nana fighter that copies the opponent’s moveset! Love the little touches of Astor getting a Link clone in mirror matches, the banter where Astor stops you from describing long-winded match-up related situations, and of course the balance factor of your clone being stuck with Astor’s more sluggish movement. You can also control the Hollow directly while Astor stays invincible while he has his barrier up, but the Hollow’s limited HP + the limited AoE of Calamity means that the Hollow can’t go too far or go off-stage to attack enemies, which is a really nice balancing touch.
“The Hollow will be able to sustain up to 15% of damage before disappearing, and any damage done to it will contribute to Astor getting screwed over in the later stages of the game.” This almost makes it sound like any damage done to a Hollow is transferred to Astor. Not entirely sure what the “getting screwed over later in the game,” part of the sentence means, as it sounds like Astor could just make another Hollow if he loses one.
The Neutral and Down Specials get particularly unique when you have the minion that evolves if it stays out for 30 seconds! I could see arguments for this timer being brought down to 20 seconds (Harbinger Ganon has 15HP, and you do need to put in a bit of set-up time between summoning the robot and then using Neutral Special), but I’m not concerned with the current timer balance-wise.
- I think that Calamity Orbs should just deal a little downwards knockback or send opponents tumbling if they’re hit by one in midair. Leaving your opponent in freefall is just a straight-up death sentence offstage, and these are slow projectiles that Astor can have a good number of out, as well as set up his robot to fire them.
- “Before getting to those, it should be mentioned that you cannot use Side Special again while Harbinger Ganon is on the field, using it will just do nothing.” Do you mean Down Special? Because that’s the input that you use to summon the Calamity-possessed robots. Side Special is the input that’s used to summon Hollows. Unless I’m mistaken and you actually mean to ban Hollow-summoning while the evolved minion is out?
- Jumping back to the weaker Harbinger Ganon minion for a moment, is there anything that prevents opponents who destroy the minion from just being hit by the malice that the robot generates on death? Maybe the malice flies away like it took knockback from the killing blow, then flies back towards the fighter who killed the robot.
- I initially thought that Ganon’s death explosion was instant until I went down and read that it took 3 seconds to trigger. I like that this gives foes time to get out of the way and not casually get punished for killing Ganon. Gives Astor a little something he can use against his opponent as payback for killing his beloved god. Could be cool if the explosion had a bit of linger to it like a Smart Bomb, where it can deny the part of the stage that Ganon was killed on? Very evil if Ganon was killed at the ledge and Astor managed to knock his opponent offstage before the explosion commenced.
- Glad to see that Down Special has a second effect beyond the robot, as the move didn’t seem to have that much substance with just the tapped version.
- Up Special is indeed simple, but the explosive orbs Astor leaves behind are a cool twist on teleportation that works with the constructs he needs to protect.
The melee goes off to a promising start, with Jab being a slow defensive pressure tool and Dash Attack being an intangible escape option that loses to shields, which the former is good at pressuring. F-tilt is a fun little use of Astor’s base mechanics, as a projectile that disappears if it leaves your AoE but can bounce off of your barrier if you put it up afterwards. U-tilt has some funny flavour to its attack animation: the fact that it is stated to hit 4 tiles above Astor makes it sound like it could hit foes on the top platform of Battlefield, but the move reads like the hitbox connects directly above Astor. It is good to see you straight-up referencing Specials in the regular attacks, and how they all synergize together.
Then we have the Smash attacks, which are just straight-up big, hard-read moves to annihilate anyone who is struck by them. Down Smash is different in that it’s a quick but unrewarding defensive option that’s best used to trap opponents in your other hitboxes - I do like how this move gets a much-needed upgrade when you charge it halfway. It is good to see Hollow move-copying being acknowledged in these attacks. The fact that both versions serve as mix-ups is cool, too. One note, though:
“A common set-up would be to charge up this attack on a platform while having a Hollow sit in the ledge, preparing it’s own Down Smash. More often than not the Hollow’s own Down Smash will finish before Astor’s when he uses his, allowing for it to react to the opponent’s option from ledge.” This write-up implies that Hollows cannot charge their Smash attacks - we know that Astor and Hollows perform the same attack input in unison, and that Down Smash needs to be charged for a bit to get the Waterblight. I actually think Hollows not being able to charge their Smashes would be very cool and work super well with Astor’s Smashes. Not only does this prevent Hollows from being too powerful, it would also work really well with the sheer slowness of Astor’s F-Smash and U-Smashes. If you have a Hollow of an opponent with a fast U-Smash that deals upwards knockback, you could have that Hollow bop the opponent upwards as you keep charging your own U-Smash - then release it when your opponent falls within range of its high hitbox!
Aerials continue to be unique attacks: N-air has the radial knockback you see on a lot of veteran N-airs, with armour to punch through enemy attacks, while F-air is a neat mid-ranged boomerang projectile that can set up into your U-tilt. B-air gives Astor much-needed spacing, while his U-air pressures landings and works nicely with a Hollow that’s separated from you. On the subjects, I like that only the Hollow will grab if Astor has one with him. Astor’s throws are all simple, but they go into the level of detail I’d want from these kinds of moves.
As for complaints. This is going to sound contradictory for how much I praised Side Special, but… I think that Hollows are straight-up overpowered, in ways that aren’t necessarily touched upon in the set. Sure, there’s a decent amount of lag to summoning a Hollow, and they die when they take 15%, but - unless I’m mistaken - they allow Astor to double down with two full-powered hitboxes, both from himself and the opponent the Hollow was cloned from. This would lead to Astor having much better shield pressure, and a much better defensive game than his own attacks would imply. And though I praised the Hollows’ synergy with the Smashes, I could see scenarios where Astor uses a quicker F-Smash to lock foes into their shield for his own stronger F-Smash and instantly breaks them (this feels like it could absolutely be a thing in the match-ups you described, like with Zelda or Sonic since their F-Smashes aren’t too slow). It gets particularly tricky when Hollow attacks are not consistent, since they’re match-up dependent. As far as dialing down Hollows go:
- Make them deal half as much damage?
- Make them deal little or no shield damage/stun?
- Let opponents beat out their hitboxes with any attack? Maybe disjointed hitboxes are still a part of the Hollows’ hurtbox?
- Negate super armour and other defensive properties on Hollow attacks?
All things said, Astor is a genuinely great set that blows Lana out of the water, and handily my favourite set from the FFC community as of now. You don’t need to be a foreseer like Astor to predict that this set should do decently well this contest. I’d definitely say that focusing on tying all these moves together paid off, because that’s exactly what we in MYM want to see. I still enjoyed the little dialogue write-ups too - they and move-related images are honestly a bonus, because they are so rare in modern MYM and not necessary at all to get a high vote. Anyway, great work on this moveset!