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Make Your Move 14 - This is Snake, I'm done here

TewnLeenk

Can pick up a boulder with relative ease
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Messages
3,934
Location
Canada
Could I possibly get a critique on my Scrrrooooooooooge McDuck moveset? Thanks!
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
Have you given out one yet? (Should be at least a common courtesy to at least give a shoutout to a set you liked before asking for critiques/comments)
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
Ok, so now we can critique your sets you keep asking with the same amount of detail? :lick:

(Not to sound mean, its just you are newer and suddenly come in wanting critique of sets while many vets are trying to catch up still, then keep asking!)
I feel ya, bro.
I'm not godly at criticizing, but I'll try to improve.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
Scrooge McDuck
As soon as I red Scrooge McDuck, I knew what his vB would be. Good choice there, but it's sort of​
unclear how his horiznotal movement works while continuously pogo'ing.​
>B is pretty cool, but wouldn't it be fantastic if instead of "Other players can't touch the sack of cash", opponents WERE able to catch the sack, making Scrooge rage, zap up to them and deliver a powerful blow with his cane, etc..?​
It'd work like when you catch an item thrown at you, but in this case, probably by mistake,​
and yr character would freeze until Scrooge hits you.​
B: A set time of 2 seconds for a reflector spells trouble for the user. How's the start-up and cooldown? Is it punishable?​
I appreciate the creativity in his Ftilt, but a minion-based Ftilt that does 9% damage and kills at 150% seems a bit on the OP side - it totally depends on the start-up/cooldown and Travel Speed of the minions.​
When pulling off Dair, what is the duration of the emptying?​
Overall, a pretty creative and fun moveset, but there's a lack in Knockback Direction as well as start-up/cooldown on most moves.​
We're looking forward to your next set, bro.​
Down Taunt: Get a One-stock Lead, and this taunt is pretty much auto-win.​
I feel it'd annoy the hell out of ppl. What volume is the clip played at?​
(Am I the first person who has commented on a taunt?)​
 

Junahu

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
899
Location
Shropshire Slasher
Scrooge McDuck:
Sorry I couldn't structure this into a more coherant comment, but here are some of my thoughts on the moveset anyway. I love me some DuckTales by-the-way, so thanks for making this moveset.
    • I adore his Side B. Something about him diving after a sack of cash, even if it fell offstage, tickles me. I'm glad to see you've put some thought into encapsulating the frugal personality of Scrooge.
    • I'm on the fence about whether or not it's alright to have his three nephews tagging along behind him everywhere if they're only going to be used in two attacks. I think some of Scrooge's throws are begging for some nephew hijinks.
    • It's not fair to make the player repeat the Down B input every time they want to bounce. In-game, you just hold the button until you want to stop bouncing.
    • The way the moveset was written is for the most part clean and intelligible. But there are some desciptions, such as "Scrooge swings his cane downward like a butcher's knife", that read a bit too violent for the cartoonish tone of the set.
    • Compared to the rest of the moveset, the aerial attacks feel underdeveloped. It's a shame too, because between his Cane Pogo, Moneybag Dive and his Down Air, Scrooge sounds like he'd be a lot of fun to play in mid-air.
Have you given out one yet? (Should be at least a common courtesy to at least give a shoutout to a set you liked before asking for critiques/comments)
Curiously, you haven't shown that courtesy either, JOE. At least not recently.
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
1) RankComs

2) Busy making vidya games IRL (I actually have recently become a developer so... time may be limited)

3) Busy on massive Mahvel Project

But anywho, I'm more just talking in general since the new wave of MYMers came in, the new members all ask for critiques all the time while barely giving each other them. Just rustles my jimmies a little that they keep asking and asking while standard procedure (on the front page no less) is that people should comment anyways.
 

Junahu

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
899
Location
Shropshire Slasher
Well that explains you I guess.

I'd imagine people aren't hot on the idea of peer review, because they're not sure on what direction they want to take their own work. Once they find confidence in their movesetting styles, they'll be more willing to analyse other movesets.
And to that end, it would be great if their work was given prompt commentry that helped them identify their strongest areas. This is an area that I would love MYM's leadership; You, FrozenRoy and ForwardArrow, to focus on.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
A note that leadership is FrozenRoy, ForwardArrow, JOE!, MasterWarlord and myself. Receiving feedback is important, but reading and especially giving feedback is extremely useful to improving as a moveset maker. By analysing other sets it's made far easier to self-analyse and see where you'd like to improve or change your own style. It's no coincidence that there's pretty much no one I can think of who was really consistently good at making sets at one point or another, who wasn't at the same time a prolific commenter.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
Who/what's the most ridiculous character/object that has been given a moveset that turned out fantastic?
 

TheKalmarKing

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
162
I'd like to have some more comments on Ares if possible. I'll write some comments myself, I've been rather inactive lately and I should make up for that.
 

BridgesWithTurtles

Smash Champion
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Apr 18, 2013
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The long road to nowhere
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Comments

[collapse=Rain]Rain was a surprisingly good read; considering I'm not the biggest Mortal Kombat aficionado; you've done well in letting the character come across to the reader. The moveset itself is fairly generic, of course, but that's a little forgivable because of the character being worked with (fighting game characters tend to have those generic punches and kicks, after all). Still, while I appreciate that you tried to stay as close to the source game as possible, Rain really could use more interaction between his moves, like ForwardArrow said. For a character so focused on tech chasing and spacing, features like lingering hitboxes that interact with one another would really serve to highlight and expand upon that, making Rain a fighter only like himself, and not just part of the general mold of similar characters like Marth. It's perfectly fine if you like adapting characters from their source material as faithfully as possible, but I wouldn't be averse to trying to get a little more crazy as long as the character is still accurately depicted. It's not like Fox is all about flying around and shooting in Smash Bros, after all, even though that's what he's known for in his own games. So too I think that Rain could be a bit more ambitious and deviating with his playstyle.

The specials are all pretty creative, actually, aside from the so-so Up Special. I like the idea of the thundercloud projectile which gets stronger as it travels; it reminds me of PK Flash, which is a unique move itself, so it's not something we see too often. The roundhouse kick is hilarious and creative to boot (no pun intended), and you do a good job of describing such an odd technique and its unorthodox effect. The Water Sphere is an interesting idea, but could use some number crunching. The rest of Rain's moves suggest he's an upwards killer, which makes the Side Special's horizontal knockback all the more interesting, though not questionable due to its intended use as a combo starter rather than a kill move. There's a coherent playstyle here, which is notable, though it's largely the sort of playstyle you already see in Smash Bros.

This is definitely your best set yet. From the helpful use of images to the increased adherence to description and formatting, Rain is a significant step in the right direction.[/collapse]

[collapse=Scrooge McDuck]As you stated, this moveset's intended as a celebration of the Ducktales re-release, and unfortunately, that shows in that it comes off as rushed. My first problem comes with the neutral and side specials. I'm not extremely familiar with the character, but I find it hard to envision him just throwing away his money like that. Sure, he quickly scrambles to retrieve it, and that obviously accurate side of his character is then seen, but if he's so frugal, then why is he throwing his money out in the first place? It'd be like Yoshi throwing up just so he could eat the food again. It just doesn't sit well with me.

It's hard to make out a playstyle with Scrooge. He's billed (once again, no pun intended, but dang, that's a double pun, with duck bill and dollar bill), as a glass cannon who gives out pain while being poor at taking it himself. Not only is this not very original, but it's not expanded on into something greater. Other than my not liking the money-throwing Side Special, my other dislikes line up with Junahu's. He's supposed to have a great air game, but the aerial section is lacking in detail; in fact, much of the set is, with descriptions becoming less meaty after the specials section. I'm also not a fan of the nephew moves, for much the same reason as Jun. If they're not a major part of his moveset, they just come off as awkward and underused. Most of the inputs in general are tersely described, which makes it difficult to envision much of a playstyle, and the lack of move interactions make Scrooge come off as a fun-to-play, but generally undeveloped, character. That's all I really have to say. It's not a bad moveset, but it's pretty much standard. Keep it up, and you can make something much better.[/collapse]

[collapse=Blood Falcon]In the opposite manner of Rain, Blood Falcon surprised me by being under-detailed, and I think it's a step backward in terms of quality. It's a clone set, which I don't frown upon, but I do dislike your decision to leave out descriptions of moves that aren't "different" from the Captain's. The problem here is that all clone characters' moves are different from those of whom they were cloned, even if they are aesthetically identical. Blood could actually be an interesting character because it'd be cool to see how he could put a unique spin on Captain Falcon's moveset. You can't really expect him to have the rest of his moves be cloned exactly from the Captain, however; if you do, that's a problem because it'd clash with the playstyle you have in mind for Blood. You can't just copy-paste moves from one character to another without making functional changes and expect a flowing playstyle, even if the latter character is a clone. Imagine how different Falco's game would be if he had the exact same Blaster as Fox instead of his own.

Blood has a pretty obvious, clearly-described, and interesting playstyle illustrated by the moves you do provide; unlike the Captain, Blood's a punisher more than an aggressor. It suits his character, and you clearly understand what sort of stats and moves he needs to play that role. This makes me a bit disappointed that you don't detail a full moveset and fully develop the playstyle. I'd like Blood Falcon a lot more if it had the same amount of detail put into it as Rain.[/collapse]

[collapse=Nintendog]Unlike ForwardArrow, I don't necessarily have a problem with the hand being part of the character. My concern comes from the fact that the hand is so vaguely described in its role. You state that the hand takes damage for the dog, but the dog is part of the battle, is it not? It's not like it just spawns on-screen for every move, is it? I can't really tell, and I'm pretty lost. If the dog is still controlled and on the plane of battle, the idea of the hand taking damage when in actuality, the dog is the one getting attacked, doesn't really alleviate the "PETA problem". It's pretty much just a cheap way to handwave the controversy, but really, the set would just be better off ignoring the issue and just having the dog take full ownership of the entity's hurtbox. The hand itself, however, I have no problem with, and I'm fine with the idea of having it spawn items and guide the dog, so long as it's either an aesthetic effect similar to the Pokémon Trainer with the dog itself being what the player controls, or a more unique playstyle in which solely the hand is controlled to direct what is essentially an AI dog. What this set has is (seemingly) a vague middle ground where the dog is on the field but the hand is the one taking damage, and really, it just doesn't work for me, especially because it's never really worked into the moveset, and doesn't make Nintendog unique in playstyle. It's just sort of...there, as a way to shrug off the animal abuse issue.

The moves themselves are fitting enough, but don't really contribute to a grand playstyle for the character, and lack the detail necessary to do so. There are a lot of props which are aesthetically unique, but function no more intuitively than any move already in Brawl. The set's decisions serve to make Nintendog fun to watch, but not necessarily to play, which is a hurdle I hope this puppy can jump over if you decide to take another whack at this character again in the future.[/collapse]
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Kholdstare

Nightmare Weaver
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Some of the more ridiculous sets I can remember are A meno Sagiri, the Katawa Shoujo girls and MLP ponies, Rollercoaster Tycoon, Item Tree, MM9 Mega man, and Mushroom. As in the Mario power up.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
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Sweden
It'd be awesome if we together created a moveset for a character of our choosing.
Depending on how many particpants there are, each participant gets responsibility for 1 or 2 inputs.

This has probably been done before, though. Right?
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
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Location
Sweden
Does anyone wanna do it again? If we make a sorta generic moveset, it shouldn't fail.
Why not Ridley.
 

Davidreamcatcha

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
629
Some of the more ridiculous sets I can remember are A meno Sagiri, the Katawa Shoujo girls and MLP ponies, Rollercoaster Tycoon, Item Tree, MM9 Mega man, and Mushroom. As in the Mario power up.
Ameno wasn't a ridiculous character - the execution was the only ridiculous part about it.
 

CrossoverMan

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Messages
588
Cody Travers (First Appearance: Final Fight)

Cody Travers was once the hero of Metro City along with his friends, the Bushinryu ninja, Guy, and the former pro wrestler Mike Haggar. After spending years beating up criminals, his morals soon became twisted, and started to realise that he wasn't fighting for his girlfriend or for protecting Metro City, but for his love of fighting. He was eventually thrown in prison for it. Cody soon began to feel more at home in prison, even though he's powerful enough to leave any time he wants, and even though he can easily take off his handcuffs, he still keeps them on while fighting. The only real reason he leaves his cell is if there is a fighting tournament, but there is a new tournament calling unlike any other he has fought in. That tournament is Smash Brothers.

Cody is a strong, durable fighter with below average speed, and is only a little bit lighter than Solid Snake. Cody's fighting style can be described as a wackier version of his usual Street Fighter moveset. He also has two costumes like Wario. Players can choose between his prison uniform from Street Fighter or his old shirt and jeans look from Final Fight. Both come with handcuffs though.

Normal Moves

Neutral Attack: Cuff Combo (A simple punch-punch-kick combo similar to Mario's. The first two punches deal about 3% damage, while the last kick deals 5%. It does very little knockback.)

Forward Tilt: Slam Master (Cody leans forward a punches his fist into the ground, dealing two hits that do in total around 9% damage. It does a fair bit of knockback and has good range, but the charge up time is very slow.)

Up Tilt: High Punch (Cody does a weak punch diagonally upwards. It does about 5% damage and does very little knockback.)

Down Tilt: Low Kick (Cody simply ducks and kicks towards the opponent's knees. Unlike Ness's down tilt, it can't be rapidly comboed. It does around 4% damage.)

Dash Attack: Bingo (Cody turns around performs a clothesline-like attack that deals 9% damage and does very good knockback. Based on one of his special moves in the Street Fighter series.)

Up Smash: Prison Slash (Cody grabs the chains on his handcuffs and throws them up into the air really fast before slamming them on the ground. It has very short range, but if it hits an airborne opponent square on, it can do about 20% damage and some tremendous knockback. If the second hit of the attack hits opponents on the ground, it does about 9% damage and does little knockback.)

Down Smash: Street Scum (Cody pulls a spanner out of nowhere and slams it on the ground. It has little range, but has surprisingly good knockback, and in total deals around 15% damage.)

Side Smash: Beat It (Cody gets out a steel pipe and pulls it back like a baseball bat before smashing opponents away. It does 17% damage and great knockback.)

Neutral Aerial: Kick (Cody simply does a karate kick like pose, dealing 5% damage and little knockback.)

Side Aerial: Spanner Smash (A meteor smash move, Cody holds his spanner above his head before smashing opponents away with it, dealing 12% damage and good knockback.)

Down Aerial: Lost Hero (Cody holds his feet out and falls vertically downwards. It does 7% knockback and comes out very quick, but could lead to self destructions if used carelessly.)

Up Aerial: Headbutt (Cody headbutts the opponent upwards like Ness, dealing 4% damage. It is great for juggling.)

Back Aerial: Back Kick (Cody kicks bachwards, dealing 7% damage and little knockback.)

Grabs and Throws

Pummel: Knee (Cody simply knees the opponent in the stomach, dealing 2% damage.)

Down Throw: Back Smasher (Cody jumps over the opponents head before coming down and stomping on their back, dealing 13% damage and great knockback.)

Up Throw: Into Space (Cody simply throws the opponent upwards, dealing 7% damage. It is great for juggling foes.)

Forward Throw: Whoops (Throws the opponent behind his shoulder, before tossing them infront of him, dealing 9% damage and good knockback.)

Back Throw: Over There (Grabs the opponents legs before spinning them around and throwing them behind him. It deals 15% damage and does great knockback.)

Special Moves

Down Special: Knife Pickup

By far Cody's most unique move. Cody bends down and picks up a knife off the ground. He can only drop it if he is hit hard enough, or if he used Bad Stone. Now, all of Cody's smash attacks are changed, as seen below:
Side Smash: Crasher (Cody charges up before slashing forwards with his knife, dealing 16% damage and great knockback, despite short range.)
Up Smash: Multi-Strike (Cody charges up before stabbing several times upwards with his knife. The opponent gets locked in if the first hit hits, and in total deals 16% damage and great knockback.)
Down Smash: Double Slash (Cody slashes with his knife along the ground twice, the first hit in front and the second behind. Both hits deal 8% damage and deal solid knockback.)


Standard Special: Bad Stone


Cody picks up a stone off the ground and throws it at the opponent. It can be charged, but this doesn't effect the impact of the stone. It deals 6% damage and deals a little knockback. If Cody is carrying a knife, he instead throws a knife, which deals 10% damage.

Side Special: Criminal Upper

Cody turns around before uppercutting the opponent, creating a small tornado that sucks in opponents and can do some good knockback and damage. It does around 17% damage in total.

Up Special: Ruffian Kick

Cody lifts his leg up and launches himself diagonally upwards, dealing good knockback and about 9% damage. It isn't a particularly effective recovery move though.

Final Smash:

Final Destruction

Cody's ultimate attack in both Street Fighter and Final Fight. Because of a not so hidden glitch in the original Final Fight, Cody can punch twice, turn around, and repeat for an infinite combo. The Smash Bros version isn't much different. The attack starts up with Cody ducking, then a glint in his eye appears. The light shining from the glint travels abou half the length of Final Destination, and if an opponent gets caught in it, Cody pummels them before launching them away with a massive Criminal Upper. The tornado travels sideways off the screen and knocks out any opponent in it's path.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member

Guest
Ameno wasn't a ridiculous character - the execution was the only ridiculous part about it.
I'll assume that you mean ridiculously good, as you voted for it and said it was the best boss set that contest.

Thanks for the compliment.
 

Kholdstare

Nightmare Weaver
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,441
Ameno wasn't a ridiculous character - the execution was the only ridiculous part about it.
Any huge 3v1 set is ridiculous in concept and character. Ameno even moreso, considering it is a set that must be defeated by draining a health meter in a game where the base principle is knockback KOs. It's why i detest pummel KO characters. I say he's a ridiculous character because he's a giant eyeball god thing. Not something you would ever see in a fighting game.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
In its defence, Ameno-sagiri is based on SSE bosses, who don't take knockback either, plus it creates shadows who can be KO'd in the traditional way. The set is designed to play mostly as the shadows with the boss itself mostly taking passive damage, not forcing the enemy players to just sit back and whittle away at its health bar. And yeah, you wouldn't see a character like this in a normal fighting game, but that to me is, in one way, the spirit of Make Your Move.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
Cody Travers
I wish you would've added Knockback Direction to the moves.
It makes it a lot easier for the reader to understand tthe flow of the character.

Also, there's some lack in detail which leaves me wanting to know more.
Imma take his down B as an example:
Does the Travel Speed of the stone increase when charged?
Does it add more range? What's its initial range/Travel Speed? When to use it to get the most out of it?
Stuff like that.
It feels like the Main Purpose of the move is to throw knifes, which is a little disappointing, to be honest.

I like the creativity in how his Smashes change when he's holding a knife, though.
It'd be awesome if you added pros/cons to his knife Vs no knife-gameplay.

It's always nice to see sets from fresh accounts/members, so keep up the work, bro. We're looking forward to your next set.
 

FrozenRoy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
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1,266
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Switch FC
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Any huge 3v1 set is ridiculous in concept and character. Ameno even moreso, considering it is a set that must be defeated by draining a health meter in a game where the base principle is knockback KOs. It's why i detest pummel KO characters. I say he's a ridiculous character because he's a giant eyeball god thing. Not something you would ever see in a fighting game.

I disagree with the idea that ANY huge 3v1 set is ridiculous in concept and character: There is a reason that bosses exist in SSE. While I would prefer bosses get their own "Boss Battles"-esque section (Personally, I think a multiplayer, expanded Boss Battles mode could be great fun) instead of just being in there, both boss sets and HP sets have room in Brawl: We've had Master Hand from the start, after all.
 

Kholdstare

Nightmare Weaver
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,441
The reason bosses exist in the SSE is because it is an adventure mode and you need bosses to fight. It is different than fighting other characters within the Brawl mode. Using SSE as a justification for 3v1 sets is absurd. If your character can't partake in things like Brawl (score or stock), Target Practice, Multi Man Brawl etc. Like any other character I'm not going to take it as serious as a normal character. Which is my basis for saying Ameno, Valozarg, and the like is ridiculous. At least Dark Bowser can be a normal character. If you really want to bring SSE into this, boss characters should be 1v1, health meter only, and you should have to fight them with stocks. Do I hate 3v1 sets? No. I just consider them a novelty, like joke sets.

Except that Master Hand is a boss, not a playable character, Froy.
 

FrozenRoy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
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1,266
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Switch FC
SW-1325-2408-7513
The reason bosses exist in the SSE is because it is an adventure mode and you need bosses to fight. It is different than fighting other characters within the Brawl mode. Using SSE as a justification for 3v1 sets is absurd. If your character can't partake in things like Brawl (score or stock), Target Practice, Multi Man Brawl etc. Like any other character I'm not going to take it as serious as a normal character. Which is my basis for saying Ameno, Valozarg, and the like is ridiculous. At least Dark Bowser can be a normal character. If you really want to bring SSE into this, boss characters should be 1v1, health meter only, and you should have to fight them with stocks. Do I hate 3v1 sets? No. I just consider them a novelty, like joke sets.

Except that Master Hand is a boss, not a playable character, Froy.

Why can't Master Hand become a playable character? I don't see why there cannot be a Boss Battle mode, just likw how Brawl has Time and Coin, even though we all use Stock. (In fact, you didn't bring up Coin)

I would say that for what you are using, ridiculous and novelty are poor word choices. It doesn't feel "ridiculous" because it is a logical leap: SSB had one boss, SSBM added Crazy Hand and Giga Bowser, SSBB added a story mode and a mode specifically for fighting bosses. SSB4? How about we make the bosses playable! Then you can have the fun of controlling a boss moveset combined with more Boss Battles and still let the AI handle it if you want.

Think of it another way: If bosses exist in the SSE just because it is an Adventure Mode, why is there Boss Battles mode?
 

Kholdstare

Nightmare Weaver
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,441
Apparently my post didn't send earlier. Long story short: we each have our own opinions about Smash, I disagree with you, Master Hand being a playable character makes no sense since he represents the game master, and I don't understand you people.

I also had a Cody comment. Abridged version on that: I like the set, knife move is cool, tornado move is weird but apparently canon, and get a better picture of him (full body). These things arent hard to find, people.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
I'd accept "hand" as a playable if they expanded the hand-family with... Jr Hand.

Jr Hand would be smaller than Master Hand and Crazy Hand, and his stance would be this:

He'd be able to use many of the attacks that his siblings use, but he'd be walking instead of defying gravity for the most part.
 

Rychu

Thane of Smashville
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
816
3DS FC
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A day may come where the makers of moves fall

BUT IT IS NOT THIS DAY

THIS DAY WE POST!
 
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