Majoras Mask Mafia! DGames' Longest Game Ends - Who Won?!?!?!?

[#HBC | Nabe]

In all fairness, it's not believable that you think I'm scum when you haven't given reads and reasoning, and have admitted that your vote on me is due to information and setup reasoning.

Am I getting a response to this, Kuz?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Ryu, did you read my response to WK's case, and my notes about hider-cop coexistence? In there I also agree that jailer-hider seems incongruous.

 

[th3kuzinator]

You did outline past play as a reason to lynch him with his ability to play on people while on the chopping block.

*facedesk*

Seriously?

 

[th3kuzinator]

What do you gain from my lynch? Jack ****. Not only have OS and myself been obvtown my lynch gives you literally NOTHING when I flip vt.

Lynching Nabe will either yield us scum or clear two people and clear up plenty of setup speculation. Not only do we gain an enormous amount of information, I genuinely believe he will flip scum. And no, I'm not only trying to lynch him because he's capable of wriggling his way out of a lynch, don't put words in my mouth. I think he's scum and I want him dead and I'll be damned if I let him get away again once we've already had him by the balls. Explain to me why this rationale is wrong, Circus, and then explain where the **** my lynch even came from.

I'm not saying Nabe is scum because of how he acts before he's about to get lynched. I've never said that so stop equating my argument to that. I've already detailed why I think Nabe is scum and I'm explaining that I'm not going to let him get away with pulling the same AtE stuff again.

 

[th3kuzinator]

So hey, if people aren't going to respond to my questions, but they are going to read my points insomuch that they have incorrect material against me, then just hammer, thanks.

Pretty sure townNabe would never say this btw. He'd want as much discussion as possible and correct information to be put on the table after his lynch. He wouldn't want the day ending prematurely with his lynch. Looks like he's just trying to milk the AtE.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ryu, did you read my response to WK's case, and my notes about hider-cop coexistence? In there I also agree that jailer-hider seems incongruous.

Read it, hider being a hindrance is bull, imo.

It's a PR with pros and cons.

I don't think all three with the roles that have flipped is possible.

 

[Inferno3044]

@nabe-you explained how your role is feasible with one either WK or my role, but never all 3 coexisting. That's a big part of the reason why your role is suspicious.

 

[Lore]

These lovers weren't even linked initially, and never were. They were essentially one Townie that causes two deaths. Obviously anti-Town.

Ok, sure, fair enough. Moving on.

What? HOW? I HAVE to pick a race, I can't just NOT have one. This counter-point is just ridiculous.

Let me play as for a bit to show this.

"Hmm... Night is coming up, and a guy who counts race heads just claimed. In order to keep from hindering him, I'll stay one race the entire game."

*stays Deku*

"Ahahaha, I helped town by staying the same race. Hooray for me and my ability to turn off my anti-townness."

Get it?

Mod-meta on something that fits perfectly by flavor for Link? What sdgbusdkbgsukd.

Completely invalid point.

I never, ever, EVER said that Link wouldn't have that power. I am questioning how TOWNY Link is, not his power. Either you're misunderstanding me, or you're twisting my words.

YOU'RE THE ONE WHO'S TRYING TO SAY IT NOT BEING CONFIRMED MAKES ME SCUM.

AND YOU'RE THE ONE WHO'S NOT SAYING WHERE I ACTUALLY SAID THAT! Chill out, dude. You're making yourself look worse.

This is exactly what I said regarding the extension:

As for extending it, we have absolutely no confirmation that it even exists, just your word. Besides, it could be used to help scum (gives more time to convince for ML if it's still being debated near deadline) as much as it could help town.

I implied that it was a possibility that it didn't exist, but my main point was that it can be used just as well for scum. Stop acting like I said something I didn't.

Wait, what? Are you implying I'm scum with Xastrn? That would make me the poisoner, and that doesn't fit at all in this game. So unless you want to make the claim that LINK is the poisoner, or that Link is a safeclaim for a role that PLAYS THE ****ING SONG OF TIME, then you've got **** all.

How do we know for a fact that the poisoner is not part of an indy pair? Do you know something that we don't?

Also, stop using ****ing flavor to defend yourself. Link could very well be the poisoner, but I don't find it likely myself, I admit. However, I never said that you WEREN'T Link; Dastrn ended up being exactly who he said he is.

I mean really, it seems like you're twisting my words (by essentially putting words in my mouth) so that you can defend yourself with flavor. Red flag.

Unlikely. Desperation survival claim.

Once again, do you know something we don't?

Because it wasn't relevant, and Acro wasn't in any danger of a lynch?

What the ****. How was he not in any danger when he was in every player's lynch pool?

Show me where I said we needed the LYNCH decided immediately. Because I'm sure I said we needed to know what everyone's OPINIONS were following the massclaim, and I made it CLEAR that we weren't ending the day immediately.

Ok, ok. I'll give you this one; I reread and you are correct. I will, however, say that you were really pushy here:

Acrostic, post your lynch pool. I know you're here.

And here.

Werekill, lynch pool. In format.

That might have been what was in the back of my head, telling me that you were really pushing the lynch pool. I apologize.

Seriously. Like, I'm pretty sure we can ALL agree that I'm Link.

We can ALSO all agree that we're looking for a poisoner and an abductor.

Now someone tell me how Link could POSSIBLY be one of those.

Oh look, more flavor defense, and apparently this guy completely disregards the possibility of an indy pair + one mafia being left.

Flavor defence, though, is shaky as hell, and I don't like it being used. Also, we don't ALL agree; stop putting words in everyone's mouths. I, personally, think that we're either looking for a pair or an indy with both poison and abduct.

@Werekill: Seriously, your reaching hard for a point on Raziek. Tell me play wise and info wise why he is the play because I ain't lynching him when I believe his role is town aligned and pretty happy with his D3 play.

His role is scummy as all hell, but that's mostly all I've got. If you haven't been convinced by that, his blatant flavor defences, and his putting words in peoples' mouths, then I don't know what will convince you.

I read the case, I dislike Werekill's thoughts on being a hider as broken, though the set-up point of view is valid. Playwise, it is WIFOM to think he did have a hider claim to safe claim and explain himself being alive though.

I really do think that Hider is broken, though, but this seems to be just an opinion difference between us, RR. Nothing scummy here from here, but I want to know your reasoning for curiousity's sake, haha.

Read it, hider being a hindrance is bull, imo.

It's a PR with pros and cons..

I never said it was a hindrance; I said that it's broken. However, if you weren't referring to me here, speak up.

 

[Lore]

By the way, I'm not switching my vote back to Nabe unless there is absolutely no chance in any way that we can't pull out another lynch right before deadline. By that, I mean that I would hammer if I was the only person online in the last like 10 minutes before deadline.

 

[Lore]

****, stupid meta knights freezing me while posting.

I was also gonna say that I believe that Raz is the absolute best play if we want to hit scum, bar none.

 

[th3kuzinator]

No one is willing to lynch Raziek, Werekill. Who else do you want lynched?

 

[Lore]

No one is willing to lynch Raziek, Werekill. Who else do you want lynched?

****.

Nabe, if no one else is available in any way. However, I'm not going to switch to his wagon unless it's an absolute emergency. I also wouldn't mind an Acro lynch, I suppose, and a Kuz or Inferno lynch would be understandable

In other words, anyone in my 4 possible scum picks based on roles (Kuz, Acro, Inferno, and Raz) is up for grabs. Raz is at the top, and Acro is a good bit farther below on my list toDay. Inferno is below Acro, and you're waaaaaaay at bottom.

 

[Inferno3044]

****, stupid meta knights freezing me while posting.

I was also gonna say that I believe that Raz is the absolute best play if we want to hit scum, bar none.

Do you really think raziek is more likely to be scum than acro and nabe? Im surprised.

 

[th3kuzinator]

And seriously stop the wall war between you two. You're both blowing things out of proportion and both making fallacious arguments all over the place. Raziek isn't scum because he's ****ing link. Drop it. We should be deciding which of Acro or Nabe to lynch because those are the two realistic lynches that actually make sense. I think both have an equal shot of flipping scum but one gives us WAY more info than the other. Not to mention Inferno actually has it right with the AtE all over the place. Nabe literally is just caking that **** on there and hoping it suffices. It's transparent.

 

[th3kuzinator]

And Werekill, stop flailing. Approach this rationally. Raziek isn't scum.

I can't believe I have to defend someone who claimed ****ing Link just to get a scumbag lynched. Can everyone please just see reason and realize that Nabe is by far and large the best lynch. You guys are getting swept up in his puppy dog eyes (**** you for being so persuasive, nabe) and are not evaluating what he has been saying.

I mean, ffs, you'd think everyone would get the message that he's okay with his death when he said "if you aren't going to listen to me, just kill me now. Just make sure to remember me when I'm gone." the first time. He's literally pulling the same guilty trip AtE card every three posts just to re-re-re-remind everyone that he's so alright with dying. Nabe wouldn't be accepting his lynch like that if he was actually such a strong PR that he claimed (especially, like he said, with misinformation out in the open). He'd be arguing it down. His passive attitude is a farce.

Someone in this game please have common sense.

 

[th3kuzinator]

**** you meta knights :<

 

[Inferno3044]

Vote: Nabe

****ing Metaknight. He just wants to haunt us cuz he's banned.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Inferno is probably being the most intelligent one here right now which is bothering me considering his lack of experience.

 

[Circus]

Kuz, I just want you to know that I'm rolling right past your 3069. If Nabe flips town, I may revisit you toMorrow (assuming I'm alive). I hate that OS replaced out because you're right in the sense that I can't very well expect you to respond to any of the **** I would bring up to support the connections I'm seeing. And it is purely a connections case, pretty much. If I could get OS' reaction to this instead of yours, this might be useful. I can hold you accountable for some of the things he said and how Xasty and T-block treated him, but you're just going to say "I don't know why he did that" or "doesn't look SvSvS to me, but I wasn't here" so I can't very well turn that into a proper discussion with you. And I don't know what to freaking do with this right now.

I was going to vote Nabe right here, but Inferno just did, so I'll hold off.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Thank you. Even if it wasn't an optimal realization, at least you're seeing common sense.

 

[Lore]

And Werekill, stop flailing. Approach this rationally. Raziek isn't scum.

But WHY isn't he scum? All I hear from you is that he's ****ing Link and nothing else.

Circus, I can honestly say that I'm thinking that Kuz is looking worse. He's just passing off my opinions of Raziek by using flavor as a defence, which makes absolutely no sense. If Raz isn't scum, why can't Kuz come up with anything else? I would consider a Kuz lynch, maybe. At least, I would definitely put it above an Acro lynch.

By the way, pure speculah: couldn't Link be an abductor? I mean, Link DID take people's souls and put them into masks.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Because I don't agree with your push = I must be scum.

Awesome.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Your reads are so flippant I honestly don't know if I can trust anything you say and its bothering me.

Stop flailing and think rationally.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Is that a no to 3081, Kuz?

 

[Lore]

Because I don't agree with your push = I must be scum.

Awesome.

No, you just haven't given a single reason as to why Raz is town AT ALL. Flavor doesn't count, and you know it.

Note, of course, that you're pretty far below Raz in terms of me wanting a lynch.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

You guys are getting swept up in his puppy dog eyes (**** you for being so persuasive, nabe) and are not evaluating what he has been saying.

The greatest thing is, I'm not exercising a lick of AtE to keep myself from being lynched, but only to get people to respond to my **** before I'm dead and no longer here to push it.

You're the one who's not evaluating what I've been saying, namely that WK is scum backtracking on my lynch to gain ground later. His progression on me went through every stage from townread to scumread in 48 hours, to the extreme that he pushed my lynch, and now he's back to townread and railing on bigNabescumpick Raz, and setting up the situation for a switch back to my lynch at deadline.

You've also yet to acknowledge my point above that I'm observing you pulling a "scumread" out of your ***, which is pretty ****ing dubious. Take note: This point is not about you reading the thread, it's about you having a scumread on me despite not having read, and the fact that it's entirely based on setup and meta. This is what I'm asking you to respond to; town can rail you about actually reading the thread toMorrow.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

As for Raz, he could be Skull Kid or the Happy Mask Salesman, making use of masks and music to formulate a safeclaim. Which isn't to say that he is, but to say that you're not looking at players' play at all, when you explicitly said you would be. Don't act like you're not staying beholden to setup and call others out on it; you are strongly focusing on setup, and you're the main (and nearly the only) proponent of it.

 

[Inferno3044]

The greatest thing is, I'm not exercising a lick of AtE to keep myself from being lynched, but only to get people to respond to my **** before I'm dead and no longer here to push it.

You're the one who's not evaluating what I've been saying, namely that WK is scum backtracking on my lynch to gain ground later. His progression on me went through every stage from townread to scumread in 48 hours, to the extreme that he pushed my lynch, and now he's back to townread and railing on bigNabescumpick Raz, and setting up the situation for a switch back to my lynch at deadline.

You've also yet to acknowledge my point above that I'm observing you pulling a "scumread" out of your ***, which is pretty ****ing dubious. Take note: This point is not about you reading the thread, it's about you having a scumread on me despite not having read, and the fact that it's entirely based on setup and meta. This is what I'm asking you to respond to; town can rail you about actually reading the thread toMorrow.

Try repeating the question rather than constantly complaining that nobody has answered them.

As for Raz, he could be Skull Kid or the Happy Mask Salesman, making use of masks and music to formulate a safeclaim. Which isn't to say that he is, but to say that you're not looking at players' play at all, when you explicitly said you would be. Don't act like you're not staying beholden to setup and call others out on it; you are strongly focusing on setup, and you're the main (and nearly the only) proponent of it.

Really? I can't believe that actually think this. Raziek is Link and he proved it by playing the song of double time which also used the deku pipes in the discussion. You don't think he's town? Fine. That's your opinion, but there is no way that he isn't Link. He also definitely crumbed the ability of the song of inverted time D2 when he asked if Kuz needed an extension.

@WK - Do you think that Raziek is Link? Yes or no?

 

[Inferno3044]

EBWOP: Do you really think Kuz is scummier for defending Raziek based on flavor?

 

[Lore]

EBWOP: Do you really think Kuz is scummier for defending Raziek based on flavor?

Quoting only this one for ease of posting, since I'm on an iPod.

Yes, I think he is Link. This was never up for debate.

And yes, I do. He has yet to actually say anything other than "Holy ****, he's Link. Back off!"

 

[th3kuzinator]

Holy ****, he's Link. Back off!

 

[Lore]

Holy ****, he's Link. Back off!

Although that's exactly the scummy stuff you've been doing, I ****ing laughed out loud at this.

 

[Raziek]

Going to TRY to keep this short, since we don't need to trade walls all day.

Let me play as for a bit to show this.

"Hmm... Night is coming up, and a guy who counts race heads just claimed. In order to keep from hindering him, I'll stay one race the entire game."

*stays Deku*

"Ahahaha, I helped town by staying the same race. Hooray for me and my ability to turn off my anti-townness."

Get it?

Isn't this exactly what I did? >_>

Completely invalid point.

I never, ever, EVER said that Link wouldn't have that power. I am questioning how TOWNY Link is, not his power. Either you're misunderstanding me, or you're twisting my words.

You implied that because my role has the potential to be anti-Town, that I must be anti-Town as a result. I directly explained a counterpoint to this by means of other anti-Town roles within this very game. So that shuts down the route of "my role is anti-town, therefore I am", right away.

This is exactly what I said regarding the extension:

"As for extending it, we have absolutely no confirmation that it even exists, just your word. Besides, it could be used to help scum (gives more time to convince for ML if it's still being debated near deadline) as much as it could help town."

This is false. I was referring SPECIFICALLY to this post.

Raz, do you wish to go ahead and do the song of double time?

Also, I should cop acro, right?

And that was RIGHT after votes had been placed on Nabe and the lynched looked solidified. And then you go and try to turn things on me using my power being anti-Town as part of the argument.

I'll also note that you tried to get me to direct your cop. If I had, I'm sure you'd be up my *** for "manipulating Town PRs" right now.

How do we know for a fact that the poisoner is not part of an indy pair? Do you know something that we don't?

Also, stop using ****ing flavor to defend yourself. Link could very well be the poisoner, but I don't find it likely myself, I admit. However, I never said that you WEREN'T Link; Dastrn ended up being exactly who he said he is.

I mean really, it seems like you're twisting my words (by essentially putting words in my mouth) so that you can defend yourself with flavor. Red flag.

Almost the entire Town has been operating under the pretext that the poisoner is likely Mafia. Note that I say LIKELY. And "Do you know something we don't" is the absolute WORST kind of WIFOM.

Hey, guess who was the last person to say that? XASTRN, when I brought up early on that race was important!

What the ****. How was he not in any danger when he was in every player's lynch pool?

No votes on him, no concrete decision to push his lynch. Merely at the stage that most players would support his lynch.

Oh look, more flavor defense, and apparently this guy completely disregards the possibility of an indy pair + one mafia being left.

Flavor defence, though, is shaky as hell, and I don't like it being used. Also, we don't ALL agree; stop putting words in everyone's mouths. I, personally, think that we're either looking for a pair or an indy with both poison and abduct.

If there's anyone here who doubts that I'm Link, please speak now. And further, just because I speak under one assumption does not mean I disregard the others. That's called operating under the likely scenario.

His role is scummy as all hell, but that's mostly all I've got. If you haven't been convinced by that, his blatant flavor defences, and his putting words in peoples' mouths, then I don't know what will convince you.

You don't even have this, though. I've already demonstrated SEVERAL times by pointing out the fact that Xastrn's partner(s) likely have (or had, if ScumBlock) roles that have synergy with his Hobo claim. Being able to change my race could easily interfere with that.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Try repeating the question rather than constantly complaining that nobody has answered them.

Are you Kuz?

Everyone should know what I'm looking for when I keep ****ing reiterating it. The main thing is that I want people to answer is to take a stance on their reasoning for suspicion of Acrostic, and to counter my own reasoning if they think his post was a scumslip as Raz thought. I've made numerous posts stating this again and again, so don't give me bull**** like "try repeating the question".

Really? I can't believe that actually think this. Raziek is Link and he proved it by playing the song of double time which also used the deku pipes in the discussion. You don't think he's town? Fine. That's your opinion, but there is no way that he isn't Link. He also definitely crumbed the ability of the song of inverted time D2 when he asked if Kuz needed an extension.

All Dekus play Deku pipes -- covered by the idea that someone who isn't Link turns into a Deku, or the idea that someone is originally a Deku and doesn't shift race at all.

Deadline extension -- we hear pipes and "it feels like something is affecting the flow of time", then we gain 48 hours. This isn't confirmation of Link in a game with free flavour.

Crumbing the ability to extend deadline -- we can plainly see that he's extended deadline as he claimed to. Which is entirely irrelevant.


But here's the important bit -- a player whose character is Link isn't necessarily town-aligned. As I've already said many times (seems to be a common theme), the scumteam that we've visibly seen consists of Jim the Bomber. There is no reason at the moment to draw the conclusion that Link isn't a member of the scumteam, aside from his being the protagonist (which isn't and has never been a convention in themed mafia games, where the mods like to counter expectation).

And all of this pales in comparison to the larger point that Raziek probably isn't scum, despite all the entirely reasonable scumpoints I've made note of, and that town doesn't have time to look at him. The whole reason this is at all relevant to me, and why I interjected my opinion, is because it serves as a very clear example of Kuz valuing setup, which is only important because he says he's not. This is all for the sake of saying that Kuz is taking an action which is null-to-anti-town, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why you're stepping in yourself to argue it.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Kuz, respond to my post the next time you're in here. This isn't a point that should require work or research from a townKuz -- I'm asking you to justify posts you've already made, and instead of simply doing so you're alternating between being a ******* and ignoring me entirely.

 

[Inferno3044]

I never said Raziek was confirmed town. I said he was Link and that's what I'm so surprised. Not that you think he's scum, but you're trying to deny that his role after he proved it. Who in the game turns into a Deku that isn't Link? Why are you so quick to defend Acro when he was in your lynch pool?

Let's pretend that Raziek gets lynched today. What knowledge do we gain and where do we go from these situations:

Raz flips town:

Raz flips scum:

 

[Lore]

Wait a second. Did Raz extend or halve the deadline? I was under the impression that he halved it, but that's not what you just said, Nabe.

Nabe, I want to hear something from you. Other than extending deadline or his bluff that "scum roles probably have other race abilities," what about Raz's role is town-oriented?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Nothing. Which doesn't speak to his alignment in a direct sense; for example, linked town are anti-town but town-aligned, millers, etc.

As you mentioned, Raz suggests that his role has a scum analog and that he's a counterweight to that scum role. Do you agree that that's possible?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I never said Raziek was confirmed town. I said he was Link and that's what I'm so surprised. Not that you think he's scum, but you're trying to deny that his role after he proved it. Who in the game turns into a Deku that isn't Link? Why are you so quick to defend Acro when he was in your lynch pool?

Let's pretend that Raziek gets lynched today. What knowledge do we gain and where do we go from these situations:

Raz flips town:

Raz flips scum:

I'm not "denying" anything. Raz quite clearly appears as a Deku to census, and has the ability to extend deadline. As I said prior, this could be covered via free flavour by any Deku, or the Skull Kid stealing the ocarina, or the Happy Mask Salesman with his masks and organ. Or he could be Link and stil be scum, or he could be Link and be town, and in sum total flavour says nothing about his alignment -- which was directed entirely at Kuz and his seeming focus, hence why I'm confused about you continuing to engage me in a Nabe-Kuz discussion. As for defending Acro... when did I do anything resembling that?

Your other question should be posed to Werekill, seeing how he's the one advocating a Raz lynch.

 

[Lore]

Nothing. Which doesn't speak to his alignment in a direct sense; for example, linked town are anti-town but town-aligned, millers, etc.

As you mentioned, Raz suggests that his role has a scum analog and that he's a counterweight to that scum role. Do you agree that that's possible?

Exactly, but as I've already pointed out, his role is able to CHOOSE to be anti-town while the others can't.

I think that he's the scum counterweight to our census taker. Think about it; who's ability does he screw over the most? The census taker, who relies on accurate numbers in order to guide town.