Majoras Mask Mafia! DGames' Longest Game Ends - Who Won?!?!?!?

[Kantrip]

Well now that you said that, scum can kill you KNOWING that you're wrong, and it would all be WIFOM. Could you show me which posts you're reading that give you a strong scum feeling?

 

[Lore]

Well now that you said that, scum can kill you KNOWING that you're wrong, and it would all be WIFOM. Could you show me which posts you're reading that give you a strong scum feeling?

Note the /joke at the end. I accidentally put the last two paragraphs as seperate entities.

But I can really tell you is that I'm getting a strong feeling from him after reading him overall, and the fact that he was treating Xastrn like he didn't exist doesn't help my image of him. No specific posts, really, and if you don't see it, then it's fine if you don't go with it.

 

[Kantrip]

So you're saying that his game looked scummy but his posts didn't? Why are you trying to dismiss it as "if you don't see what I see oh well let's drop it".

If you're town, you'd want to explain things and bounce ideas off of other players. You're not going to help town by saying "I think this and if you don't agree oh well." You should be trying to construe your information properly if you want anyone to believe it.

 

[Kantrip]

I was just reading a bit of T-Block's content, and he addressed Xasrn (and Xastrn addressed him) quite a bit. What made you say they didn't address each other, Werekill?

 

[Lore]

Where? I don't remember that too much.

And I meant that Xastrn mostly ignored him as well, btw. A few posts here and there where they talk to each other don't really mean much.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I've already said that your "claim" is a magnificent shield for scum or an abductor.

Right. Which says nothing about your stance on me.

Am I right to assume that null leaning scum is your current read on me?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Solid, are you planning to read and post before deadline?

 

[Kantrip]

Werekill, they definitely didn't ignore each other, and it didn't seem like "a few posts here and there". Are you saying you don't have any reasoning for T-Block scum but gut?

I'll pull up posts where they addressed each other if you really need me to.

 

[Kantrip]

Here I compiled posts in which T-Block referenced, talked to, questioned, responded to, etc. Xastrn. Maybe it can be easier for you to read these here and tell me what exactly you didn't like about his play. I'll be reading through them as well.

[COLLAPSE="T-Block Quotes"]

Wow, get off Overswarm's **** please.

No, I don't see how it stops scum from coasting. It stops scum from fake contributing, which was already heavily scrutinized without this plan. His proposed plan for finding scum relies on scum taking an action - either swaying town from a lynch, or opposing the fallback lynch. How do we deal with inactives? I guess that falls under moving towards the fallback lynch? Are we really going to look at inactives once this plan is in place and say "you're inactive, so you must be trying to force town into going to the fallback lynch" rather than "you're inactive, so you could be scum trying to avoid making connections"? It just doesn't make sense to me.

I hate inactives as well, and I understand that No Lynching is not useful. However, we can deal with that without instituting a system that allows for so much manipulation, especially with so many newer players around.

White is Xatres, orange is Dastrn. Is that how this works?



There's nothing out of character about what RR did. Why so focused on meta, especially second-hand meta?

Hi OS.

Stop playing like you can't be lynched. 153 please?



I don't even know anymore. Is spell replacing or not?



Xastrn needs to stop posting useless things imo. It's just distracting -_-

Contrast with the current metagame is an interesting way to put it, although I'm not sure if it's entirely accurate.

I have been noticing some odd play from Xastrn. First is the buddying of OS and the immediate agreeing with the fallback lynch plan. Then there's been statements such as the one quoted in the post before yours where he looks like he's being overly safe. However, I'm not sure I would label this as metagame differences, and I'm unsure of what to make of all this, and how much weight to put into my conclusions at this point in the game, as I've never played with Dastrn before. As for that town cred comment, I didn't take too much out of it. Obviously it's a silly thing to put any weight in.

Do you have a town read on Xastrn then? You seem to be suggesting that aspects of his play that are "off" can be attributed metagame differences.

Circus, have you entertained the idea that either of them might be noobtown? You are pushing Frio really hard here, and it feels over the top and not genuine.



Is Frio dumb or scum?

Can we get your updated thoughts on Circus? You said you wanted more from Circus, then said you liked him because of his pressure on John, but were then presented with cases by J and Raziek. Would you be willing to vote him?



Noted on the spreadsheets.

You are playing it hella safe with that evaluation of the Circus wagon, although I like the point that his reaction seems too extreme. Do you have a stronger read than Circus at the moment?



J you're breaking my heart </3

I'm familiar with the idea, thanks. Sometimes, though, the changed behaviour is just as useful as the untainted one.

If you're going to tell me that the entire proposal was intended only to see people's reactions to it, I'm going to say I don't necessarily believe you. I'm not going to gain any information in this aspect from just watching because nobody else is going to bring it up. So, I should bring it up, no?

As for the Xastrn comment, I would have ignored the buddying, but in this case it led Xastrn to support a bad idea, which is going to raise flags. That's already been observed. So, I comment, and from that arises new things to observe.

Make sense?

I am FINISHED the week from HELL =D

unvote

Okay, here's what I'm getting from the case on Xastrn:

The main point in the case against him is that his push against Red Ryu was weakly based, and reasoning given was inconsistent with his other actions. People are questioning his motivation behind pushing Red Ryu so hard, especially when combined with the fact that he also wants Werekill dead, but hasn't been pushing him.

There is also the secondary point that his defence has been weak, and it looks like he has been, as Circus put it, caught faking content and is unsure of how to act now. There have also been accusations of attempts to open doors to launch a counterattack on his accusers, as well as of ignoring certain questions.

Am I missing anything major?

The case is not enough to convince me Xastrn is the play quite yet. I feel that it is exaggerated on both fronts. I was able to read the exchange thoroughly after they had occurred, and without bias, and I think Circus should go back and do the same. Circus' 902 misrepresents Xastrn, as he had already stated that he is okay with RR not being the lynch in 897. I think what's happening here is that Xastrn is defending himself from multiple points regarding RR, and it is being interpreted as a continuation of the push on RR, when that's not the case. As for the second point, the accusation of opening doors to jump back at the attacker could easily be attributed to posting style (accusation in post 920). He's answered questions in 914. I think I could be convinced, but it's not there yet.

@Circus, Nabe: Thoughts on the above? Does Circus' 902 still accurately represent your reasons for voting Xastrn?

I'm sure there's at least one scum in Circus/Nabe/Xastrn.

The behaviour of Kantrip and Solid with respect to the Xastrn wagon was interesting, but those suspicions have been voiced by others already and I don't feel the need to echo them. I'll look into it more.

I'll clarify some of the other reads I provided in that terrible post I made:

I do have a noobtown read on Frio, based on the early posts by him, but I'm obviously not too confident in it since we've seen so little from him. I can confirm that he's busy at school, and I'll be waiting to see more from him.

I don't think Panta is my top pick anymore. I dislike his slot, and I could definitely see it being scum, but it is very easy to hop on his wagon and I think we can do better for Day 1. Plus, I think if he is scum it will be easier to read him later on.

I said I was feeling better about dabuz, but I think I'm going to retract that statement after taking a closer look at his "case" on Xastrn. Many of his points were extremely weak, and some of them were just way off-base. I like that he's no longer asking useless questions to fake activity, but I question the motivation behind the push. One thing to note is that he says "+10 scum points" for trying to get on OS' good side, yet has no issue with my compliment to Raziek early, and that was less related to the game than Xastrn's was.

To answer your question about RR, Xastrn, he's leaning town to me at the moment. However, it's likely that part of the reason why is that you were attacking him with a fairly weak case, and he defended adequately. I see his recent shenanigans as null, and within that, I've seen at least some scumhunting. It's nothing to praise, but it's more than a lot of people in this game have done. I'm not interested in an RR lynch.

All right, I'm either voting Circus or Xastrn. I'm still sure that one of them is scum.



I still don't see it as being as bad as you make it out to be. You are continually fixating on this "scum through and through" stuff, and it's feeling more and more like misrepresentation to achieve a mislynch. Xastrn has said that there was no case to be built on RR because of lack of content, and he actually backed off of RR sooner than you are giving him credit for, yet you just keep bombarding him and us with the same point. I don't like the case on Solid either tbh, but apart from that, I've been okay with his defense. Even his vote on you is null, as I can see town doing the same in that situation.

vote: Circus

So your reasoning is based only on the cases of others? Can you be more specific? What did Solid say that convinced you to vote Xastrn?



J has given an answer to this. What was the reason for asking the question? Did you gain anything from it?

Mind telling us what Xastrn's flip, town or scum, will tell us about OS?

Hmm... somewhat. I strongly believe that Circus vs. Dastrn is SvT, which is the main feature of your post.

I dislike your pinning Werekill as scum only on a scumCircus flip though... chainsaw defense can be easily misinterpreted. I do see a connection from overall interactions, but nothing that would "pin"

@Werekill: Where does Kantrip sit on your lynch list? If a Dastrn lynch were off the table for whatever reason, would Kantrip be next? Provide reasoning please.

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Lore]

Right. Which says nothing about your stance on me.

Am I right to assume that null leaning scum is your current read on me?

What the ****. You just took out the entire second half of the post where I ****ing explain my read on you. Are you honestly just trying to piss me off?

@Kantrip: Now look at Xastrn's posts, which OS conveniently quoted. I freely admit that the lack of interaction is mostly on xasty's side, and I apologize for mistakenly saying it was the other way around.

 

[Kantrip]

So your entire T-Block scum read comes from the fact that Xastrn didn't address him much?

 

[Lore]

Or better, Kantrip, here's OS's charts.

and

Just look at how little Xastrn interacted with T-Block.

Also, I'd love to use meta since Xasty did the same thing in Bebop with Chill, his scum mate, but I haven't really been in enough games with Dastrn to really say that's how he plays scum.

 

[Lore]

So your entire T-Block scum read comes from the fact that Xastrn didn't address him much?

That plus the fact that he coasted like crazy, came out of nowhere with a statement that Xastrn was not "the right play" and immediately turned to Circus, and even when he directly said that Xastrn had been odd, Xastrn didn't worry with him. Not to mention the fact that he passed off Xastrn and voted for Circus after, even though he said that he still was suspicous, slightly defending Xastrn.

 

[Kantrip]

So Nabe, Solid, Frio, Dabuz, and me are scum too?

I honestly wouldn't put so much faith in T-Block scum based on interaction alone. Xastrn was VERY WELL aware of Overswarm's charts, and even asked him to update them regularly. Obviously he would know to avoid being obvious with how he reference or ignored his scummate(s).

With this in consideration, Xastrn's lack of interaction with T-Block should not give you a read. Especially since the inverse is not true.

 

[Kantrip]

Ninja'd by a post that makes slightly more sense. I was hoping for an answer like that from the start, and I don't like how it took this long to get what I was expecting. I don't like it at all.

 

[Lore]

I'm on my iPod, dude. I'm typing short bursts of info while doing other things.

 

[Lore]

Also, Kantrip. Notice the fact that T-Block is the only one in your group of "Xasty nobodies" who was never condemned by Xastrn.

Red flag.

 

[Kantrip]

That's irrelevant to the points you brought up initially. It takes very little effort to state what you did in your #2213, and that's really all I wanted from you. The fact that you didn't give that until later is something I do not like.

And iPod posting is not an excuse for giving bad reasoning. I post on my iPod quite often.

What's a red flag?

 

[Lore]

Here's the "pretty much defense" post. It's hard to not see at least some defense of Xasty here.

I am FINISHED the week from HELL =D

unvote

Okay, here's what I'm getting from the case on Xastrn:

The main point in the case against him is that his push against Red Ryu was weakly based, and reasoning given was inconsistent with his other actions. People are questioning his motivation behind pushing Red Ryu so hard, especially when combined with the fact that he also wants Werekill dead, but hasn't been pushing him.

There is also the secondary point that his defence has been weak, and it looks like he has been, as Circus put it, caught faking content and is unsure of how to act now. There have also been accusations of attempts to open doors to launch a counterattack on his accusers, as well as of ignoring certain questions.

Am I missing anything major?

The case is not enough to convince me Xastrn is the play quite yet. I feel that it is exaggerated on both fronts. I was able to read the exchange thoroughly after they had occurred, and without bias, and I think Circus should go back and do the same. Circus' 902 misrepresents Xastrn, as he had already stated that he is okay with RR not being the lynch in 897. I think what's happening here is that Xastrn is defending himself from multiple points regarding RR, and it is being interpreted as a continuation of the push on RR, when that's not the case. As for the second point, the accusation of opening doors to jump back at the attacker could easily be attributed to posting style (accusation in post 920). He's answered questions in 914. I think I could be convinced, but it's not there yet.

@Circus, Nabe: Thoughts on the above? Does Circus' 902 still accurately represent your reasons for voting Xastrn?

I'm sure there's at least one scum in Circus/Nabe/Xastrn.

The behaviour of Kantrip and Solid with respect to the Xastrn wagon was interesting, but those suspicions have been voiced by others already and I don't feel the need to echo them. I'll look into it more.

I'll clarify some of the other reads I provided in that terrible post I made:

I do have a noobtown read on Frio, based on the early posts by him, but I'm obviously not too confident in it since we've seen so little from him. I can confirm that he's busy at school, and I'll be waiting to see more from him.

I don't think Panta is my top pick anymore. I dislike his slot, and I could definitely see it being scum, but it is very easy to hop on his wagon and I think we can do better for Day 1. Plus, I think if he is scum it will be easier to read him later on.

I said I was feeling better about dabuz, but I think I'm going to retract that statement after taking a closer look at his "case" on Xastrn. Many of his points were extremely weak, and some of them were just way off-base. I like that he's no longer asking useless questions to fake activity, but I question the motivation behind the push. One thing to note is that he says "+10 scum points" for trying to get on OS' good side, yet has no issue with my compliment to Raziek early, and that was less related to the game than Xastrn's was.

To answer your question about RR, Xastrn, he's leaning town to me at the moment. However, it's likely that part of the reason why is that you were attacking him with a fairly weak case, and he defended adequately. I see his recent shenanigans as null, and within that, I've seen at least some scumhunting. It's nothing to praise, but it's more than a lot of people in this game have done. I'm not interested in an RR lynch.

 

[Kantrip]

Xasty condemned everyone but J, Raziek, and T-Block. The people I said were only condemned once, which could be as little as "i don't like so-and-so".

I would prefer not to use Overswarm's charts, because everyone was aware of their presence and everything on there is one-dimensional and easily faked.

 

[Lore]

That's irrelevant to the points you brought up initially. It takes very little effort to state what you did in your #2213, and that's really all I wanted from you. The fact that you didn't give that until later is something I do not like.

And iPod posting is not an excuse for giving bad reasoning. I post on my iPod quite often.

What's a red flag?

Well excuuuuse me for not having thoughts in the same chronological order as you. My first bit was him being igbored by Xastrn and a general gut feeling, but then I got into the nitty gritty and started looking deeper into his posts instead of thinking of about what him being scum would reveal (as I was doing at the beginning of the Day).

And how is it irrelevant? He was never condemned by Xastrn, yet all other people that he barely mentioned were condemned in some way. I see that as a MAJOR red flag, which is essentially something bad that I notice about a player.

 

[Lore]

Xasty condemned everyone but J, Raziek, and T-Block. The people I said were only condemned once, which could be as little as "i don't like so-and-so".

I would prefer not to use Overswarm's charts, because everyone was aware of their presence and everything on there is one-dimensional and easily faked.

Ah, but J and Raziek had other interactions with him as well. T-Block has a massively lower amount of references and such from Xastrn.

And why didn't you speak up about the charts being "easily faked" earlier when I brought up the same idea, or hell, even when part of Solid's case was based on that, if memory serves me right. I don't like this. :/

 

[Lore]

I think you're being nitpicky here and also acting the person making the argument, not the argument itself, when you said that you didn't like that it took me a while to say something you agreed with.

Red flag on that second bit, by the way. Our minds din't work the same, and saying things in a different order than Kantrip wants isn't bad. :/

 

[Kantrip]

It's not a different order. If I had not questioned further, you wouldn't have provided more than your first posts on the matter.

I believe I did say earlier that I would prefer not to use Overswarm's charts other than looking at them the first time.

I'm leaving now and will be back in about 5 hours to place my vote.

 

[Lore]

Also, on a side note, I believe that we've both ignored my earlier pist where I directly say that T-Block wa dcummy and such for coasting, but whatever.

And where did you say it?

Also, is everyone ready for the flip? I'll place my vote on Kantrip after hearing some more from people.

 

[th3kuzinator]

No.

Still here. Still reading.

Why is everyone in such a hurry to rush this flip, jeez.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Might I remind you 56 pages is ****ing enormous.

 

[Lore]

Oh, we're 11 hours, give or take, from the deadline.

FAKE EDIT: Kuz wants more time, and time he shall have.

In case I miss twilight since I'll probably be leaving soon:

I'm treating T-Block as confirmed scum, which I really was doing since last Night when I rereading. Any non-Kantrip thoughts, anyone?

Aaaaand, that's it. I don't like J for the silly things he pushed against me, and Nabe better reveal results tomorrow.

 

[Lore]

Kuz, take a break and read the last two pages. Just based on those pages, what is your opinion of the Kantrip vs Me interaction?

 

[th3kuzinator]

T-block is not aligned with Datrn, that I can assure you.

Btw I'm just going to be giving you my reads as they come to me while reading. If I die during the Night they will be substantiated by my town flip and if I don't I'll be alive to explain them toMorrow. Don't have time to give reasoning for everything toNight, since its saturday and I still want to go out soon.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Someone feel free to put him at L-1.

I'll hammer sometime tonight when I'm done reading.

 

[Lore]

Vote: John. Hammer when ready, Kuz.

Also, since I'm now watching Gurren Lagann, I miss your Kamina avatars.

 

[Lore]

****ing damnit.

Vote: John.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

What the ****. You just took out the entire second half of the post where I ****ing explain my read on you. Are you honestly just trying to piss me off?

The second part of your post suggests null leaning scum, hence my question. Am I right in saying you're null leaning scum on me?

 

[Lore]

The second part of your post suggests null leaning scum, hence my question. Am I right in saying you're null leaning scum on me?

I said that if you take out the claim part, you're pure null. The claim by itself doesn't really reflect on you as a person TOO much, but it's suspicious enough, imo, to almost be considered separately from you. The claim is suspicious, not your behavior. There are just too many bad possibilities.

Get what I'm saying? I don't; I'm massively tired.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I said that if you take out the claim part, you're pure null. The claim by itself doesn't really reflect on you as a person TOO much, but it's suspicious enough, imo, to almost be considered separately from you. The claim is suspicious, not your behavior. There are just too many bad possibilities.

Get what I'm saying? I don't; I'm massively tired.

I'd like to relegate you to a simple response in my head. What you're telling me is that I'm null to you, except for an action I've taken that you think is scummy. So that fits "null leaning scum" closer than plain null. Right?

 

[Lore]

I'd like to relegate you to a simple response in my head. What you're telling me is that I'm null to you, except for an action I've taken that you think is scummy. So that fits "null leaning scum" closer than plain null. Right?

Ugh, I suppose. Go ahead and think that; I approve.

And I don't think that it's scummy; I think that it could easily BE scummy. It's all just silly WIFOM shenanigans and it makes my head hurt.

(and yes, this is my first game where something like this happened)

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

As I said earlier, it seems to me that you're arguing that it's scummy on principle, rather than that it was specifically scummy for me to take the action. Is that a fair assessment?

 

[Lore]

As I said earlier, it seems to me that you're arguing that it's scummy on principle, rather than that it was specifically scummy for me to take the action. Is that a fair assessment?

It's less on principle and more on potential possibilities, but yes.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Nabe I'm having extreme trouble trying to read you and thats throwing me off as I've never had trouble reading you in the past.

John, since you're viewing, do you have any last words/things you want to share with you before you die? I will be hammering at the end of my read.