Majoras Mask Mafia! DGames' Longest Game Ends - Who Won?!?!?!?

[Raziek]

Changed my mind. You should know why.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I don't but okay.

Since Inferno's not here, Kantrip, what do you think of 1436? Does it explain any better for you?

 

[Raziek]

I thought you were the investigative, Nabe?

 

[#HBC | J]

WK, the point I was getting at with me voting you from yesterDay's actions were that I was beginning to like you less and less, plus with your posts surrounding Xastrn around the time he was lynched came off as fake to me.

Speaking of, Raz, why do you have that slot as a, what seems to be, strong town read?

I like this debate between Nabe vs. Raz. However, I hate to say it but I'm with Inferno/Kanty as in not getting what Nabe is calling scummy about Raz because I still don't see anything.

Am I really the only one who just thinks John may be just not smart town? x_X"

 

[#HBC | J]

Who'd Inferno replace for? Frio?

Circus, you said you were discontent with Frio's slot, what think you of his slot now that there is actual content behind them? I also thought you said you were going to be presurring John all day but now it seems tides have changed for D, is that true?

 

[Raziek]

Even if he is, J, do you expect he'll ever get NK'd or benefit Town at this rate?

It's enough that I'm willing to gamble on him not being scum, since unless he's got a ridiculous PR, we only stand to gain. I think the connections between he and Xastrn are strong enough when you consider the experience level of the slot.

 

[#HBC | J]

So you are trying to say we need to weed out the weak/possible borderline Dumb or Scum candidates are your pick to who should be lynched toDay?

Meeeeh.

*I'd still like an answer to my WK question please. ^^*

 

[Raziek]

Noooo, I'm saying that I think he's scum, but he's also dumb, so we stand to lose very little even if we're wrong.

 

[#HBC | J]

Noooo, I'm saying that I think he's scum, but he's also dumb, so we stand to lose very little even if we're wrong.

Why are you ignoring me? I thought we were tight.

I still don't like the, "*shrug* Either way it's a gain if he's gone." answer. I need to re-read John even though you have ISO'd him because I'm still not convinced of him being scum but just really not that smarticle.

 

[Raziek]

Oh! Sorry bro, I thought you were asking Wrekill about me, not the reverse. Let me see if I can find some of the posts that made me get the Town read on the slot.

 

[#HBC | J]

It's aight duder. ^^

Though, your reasoning for SOLID town = +++ cuz I like that. Mainly being is because that is what I am seeing with Solid is that I have liked his defenses thus far and Xastrn's last push on Solid look like him trying to create an easy way out for himself which I doubt he would do to a scum-mate. (*WIFOM yes but I'm listening to Circus for a sec ;P)

 

[Lore]

WK, the point I was getting at with me voting you from yesterDay's actions were that I was beginning to like you less and less, plus with your posts surrounding Xastrn around the time he was lynched came off as fake to me.

Less and less because of what? Give me reasons, man.

And I still don't like the whole "oh that sounded like a fake reaction" bit that happened after I was posting that I was annoyed that Xasty was gonna flip town. I can't say that I'm disappointed that he was gonna flip a way that I didn't expect?

And Dasty, if you're reading this: expect a **** punch anyway for being all "go town" then flipping scum.

 

[Lore]

@Werekill: What do you think of this post and the posts leading up to it?

It was during his "omg guyz, a post is coming I PROMISE" phase, so I dunno. It seems kinda weird when you consider that he almost never said that he wanted to lynch Xastrn again until after Xasty's claim, so yeah.

Honestly, the "fake hammer" thing I had was just an idea, but I don't think that it would hold up too well. I still don't like Kantrip, but for now I'm ok with chalking up his bad play and such as D1 bull**** and move on.

@Werekill as well, what's your read on dabuz?

He seems ok, for the most part. We're just not seeing much from him, which makes me think that he's coasting for some reason.

First of all, this post is all WIFOM. I'm actually upset Werekill bought this and gave his race.

Wait wait wait. When did I give my race? o_0

fake edit: woops, wrong order for pressing submit reply. I forgot to copy pasta J's reply to this post. XD

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Solid, penny for your thoughts.

Also something I didn't point out in my first post: In OS's list of who can live and who can die Xastrn was on it. I don't see why he wanted him to live of all people.

@Solid - thoughts on Razieks claim?

Sure.

Inferno - claim is oddly timed so at this point I don't really know what to think about the truth of it. Still, I'm inclined to believe it although I'm still perplexed by it. Outside of the claim, I like Raz' post regarding John, as I share a lot of the same sentiments. I'm not convinced John is scum but I think it's a definite possibility. I also agree with Raz' 1446, I can't see John benefitting us much outside of a good town PR. Points to Raz overall, even though claim is odd.

Don't know how much I like Inferno so far. Honestly I feel like pushing OS is a bit too easy in this game. While I agree he's barely contributed anything, I don't think that makes him especially scummy. The case just seems quite weak and I don't like that it's the first thing Inferno did upon entering the game.

That's most of my thoughts for now, and I'm going to put a vote on John. Even when asked to contribute specifically, he hasn't. His 'contributions' are nothing but succinct rehashes of the main points regarding whatever he's asked, and I don't think I've seen a genuine opinion out of him all game. Although some of this could point to dumbtown, the vote on Xast with no explanation (even when I specifically asked him for one) put me over the edge, as it could most definitely be a late attempt at distancing once it was clear that Circus or Xastrn would be lynched yesterDay.

Vote:John2k4

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

@Inferno: That was me OS was asking about race, not Werekill.

 

[Lore]

@Mod: Can you confirm or deconfirm that T-Block was a legit kill and not a modkill of some sort?

I'm thinking around on some various things, and I'd like to hear an answer since that's the only variable that could be unknowable; chasing after a janitor or an indy with similar powers would be useless if it was a modkill.

(I don't why it WOULD be one, but still. The phrasing "vanished into the night" makes me feel odd.)

 

[Raziek]

Why is race important? I know that it's listed in the role pm, but there's nothing else that signifies it. It could just be a red herring for when a scum gets lynched and race is revealed.

I'm not going to trust flavor until I see more than a couple flips.

Reeks of VT, since I think most of the PR's in this game probably have to do with the race mechanic.

A lot of things are bothering me about Kantrip's "case" against circus. (note, I'm not taking on every point; just the few that bother me.)

There is no way that it is blatantly wrong. Xastrn said, and I quote:

Xasty flat out says here that I'm a better lynch target, but for some reason, he still thinks that RR is scummy through and through, so instead of switching vote to (in his opinion) the best lynch for town, he keeps it on a person who he just considers scummy. However, you either misinterpreted Circus or this post or you're just manipulating words.

Also, I noticed something big that is making me Vote: Xastrn, but I'll save that for next post.

There was a bit of content in about half of those gif's, so Circus's point is valid. 4 is pitifully small as evidence against someone.

Wait, wait wait. I'm trying to understand this. You think that this is a "chainsaw defense" because Cicus is not not giving any reasons as to why Xastrn's case is bad? He gives a couple fairly good ones in the same paragraph, as a matter of fact, and only one of them is that "he isn't fence sitting":

I don't see how you can look at this and say that there aren't any reasons, and I like you less for it. This is just pure not reading, and I'm not sure if you willingly ignored the whole of the paragraph or not.

Oh hai, I'm trying to make Circus look bad while using crappy reasons since Circus has been under suspicion for several parts of the Day.

Ok ok, what? OS can do the same thing with his "backup lynch" (essentially) and get off partially scotfree, but Circus can't do the same thing? Hell, even I constantly say that lynching inactives is ok D1 (see: Newbie 13 or Ragnarok). I haven't done it in this game because there are actually legit lynches up for grabs.

I don't like you, Kantrip.

Wait wait wait wait wait wait waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiit. There is no way in bloody hell that he has been tunneling. He has been strongly against John, who, by the way, HAS been acting scummy, but he has also been against several other people, like Xastrn, and has given decent reads on several people

How the heck can you miss the fact that he went against other people when you quoted him yourself in your little mega post? This is going beyond an "oops, I missed that LOL" and is getting into fishy territory.

Now for my anti-Xastrn post, which is coming up next. However, I find the Circus case to be severely lacking, and I have no reason to vote for Circus. He's still a solid null, though, not town, in my eyes.

This post and its followup were good. The timing was right. We had just begun to swing the wagon around on Circus, so if he was scum with Xastrn he'd have had no reason to vote here. I don't believe that Werekill is smart enough to realize it might swing back and buy him Town points, either.

Ok, cool. Just wondering.

Razzy, what's your opinion on Kantrip?

As of late, Town. Not on my lynch platter for today.

Nothing in his interactions with me has made him look worse? :/

Not particularly. Feels TvT to me.

Is there anything in specific you feel should make me go ZXOMGKANTRIPSOSCUM? If so, quote it for me.

Eh, mostly his fallacious case against Circus and his silly chainsaw defense accusations, not to mention his crappy accusations against me.

Oh, and instead of actually responding to my points about his case with circus, he just ignores them and moves on after latching on to my extra reasoning against Xast post.

And finally, this exchange felt like a Townie trying to earn points from a more active player.

Everything about Werekill's playstyle says Town to me. His reaction to Nabe's investigative pseudo-claim didn't sit to me as rolefishing, but as legit townie frustration due to not understanding the nature of the gambit.

All considered, it's partially gut read, and partially based on his interactions with Xastrn and Circus.

Posts pre-Xastrn flip were kinda dumb, but not damning, IMO.

 

[Lore]

And by legit kill, I mean killed/vanished due to an action by a player and not a mod.

 

[Raziek]

Werekill, I'll eat my shoes if T-Block was modkilled. He was either jan'd or abducted.

 

[Lore]

I know, I know. I just feel like it should be confirmed either way before I mentally move on.

Like I said, the phrasing bothered me a bit.

 

[Raziek]

Why is race important? I know that it's listed in the role pm, but there's nothing else that signifies it. It could just be a red herring for when a scum gets lynched and race is revealed.

I'm not going to trust flavor until I see more than a couple flips.

Hmm.

Looking at it.... J.

Consider Werekill's recent play. Does this post strike you as odd?

 

[#HBC | J]

Hmm.

Looking at it.... J.

Consider Werekill's recent play. Does this post strike you as odd?

Odd how? I get the odd vibe but nothing to like bright enough to show why. It's like a fog atm. (same john I used in the other thread but tiredness due to hell rehearsal day x_X)

You just said that post strikes you of VT yet now you say it's odd, care to explain?

 

[Raziek]

I don't know. Call it a feel. Maybe I'm giving Werekill too much credit, but his obsession over the abductor/janitor thing, and the "see some flips" part don't sit quite right with me.

I still think he's Town, but if nothing turns up and he's still around later in the game, I wouldn't put it past him being said abductor/janitor.

Just sits.... odd with me.

 

[Raziek]

Just wanted to make a note of it, since my last "red flag" moment with Xastrn turned out to be a scumtell.

 

[Lore]

Consider Werekill's recent play Does this post strike you as odd?

It isn't odd.

Let me explain myself better. I'm trying to think of what T-Block could have been, alignment-wise, and hearing whether or not he was modkilled would help.

Also, thanks for ignoring me, J darling.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm actually taking my time to respond to you fully by bringing up quotes to help you understand my train of thought better.

Oh, now don't you feel bad. :embarass:

 

[Raziek]

95% chance T-Block was Town, unless he was Maf and the abductor is Indy. (Would have to be Abductor if Indy, since IndyJan would be wtf)

Doubt there's an indy Abductor though, since that'd be too similar to Hilt's last setup. Likely Janitor.

 

[Lore]

I don't know. Call it a feel. Maybe I'm giving Werekill too much credit, but his obsession over the abductor/janitor thing, and the "see some flips" part don't sit quite right with me.

What obsession? o_0

I believe that I asked a question about TB's life status, but I've been mostly quiet about the Jan/Abduct thing, I think? Feel free to prove that I have a bad memory.

 

[Lore]

95% chance T-Block was Town, unless he was Maf and the abductor is Indy. (Would have to be Abductor if Indy, since IndyJan would be wtf)

Doubt there's an indy Abductor though, since that'd be too similar to Hilt's last setup. Likely Janitor.

Ugh, I guess. I suppose that since this is my first game where flips aren't revealed, it just isn't sitting well with me. >_<

 

[Raziek]

Wait wait wait. Why is T-Block gone? Can we still vote for him or whatever?

Or is he actually dead now?

@Mod: Can you confirm or deconfirm that T-Block was a legit kill and not a modkill of some sort?

I'm thinking around on some various things, and I'd like to hear an answer since that's the only variable that could be unknowable; chasing after a janitor or an indy with similar powers would be useless if it was a modkill.

(I don't why it WOULD be one, but still. The phrasing "vanished into the night" makes me feel odd.)

I suppose "obsession" might be the wrong word, but you're getting too hung up on this to the point that it feels fake. Especially the last post.

T-Block is almost certainly Town just by simple logic when you consider his alignment.

If T-Block was Town, either mafia or indy would target him in the night. This is the most likely situation.

If T-Block was mafia, Town Janitor I've never heard of ever. Would need to be an indy, which I already noted as unlikely due to setup similarity. MafBlock not likely.

It is possible he was Indy targeted by Mafia, I suppose, but that seems pretty unlikely, too.

What obsession? o_0

I believe that I asked a question about TB's life status, but I've been mostly quiet about the Jan/Abduct thing, I think? Feel free to prove that I have a bad memory.

 

[#HBC | J]

Less and less because of what? Give me reasons, man.

Less and less because of the attitude you reacted towards Xastrn's wagon.

[collapse=Attitude]

Actually, I think that Xastrn will give the most connections, and he's, imo, scummier than Circus.

He's at L-1, though, so I say that we let him claim before 'da hammah.

I actually haven't really seen why from you as to why this is the case besides being on Circus' side of this argument. Tell me how Xasty gives more connections then Circus as in who.



Claim-fishing? Nooooo way jose. He has no reason to claim just yet especially since the votes just cascaded within the last 12 hours to put him there.

I also don't like that you suggest that even after claim, we would hammer him....

>.>

I just don't see him offering a believable claim, but he should still get his fair chance.

But what in the world even suggests this?

Prior scummy behavior. I mean, if some guy acted like a jester the whole game then claimed town doc, would you believe him?

Not that I'm saying that he's jester-like, of course.

@Kantrip: I have no clue anymore what the **** you're even talking about. How is anything anywhere here a chainsaw defence? Did you just find a new favorite term this game, or are you faking being this slow? >_>

You're good vigbait if we have a vig, though, so I don't suppose that I mind too much.

[/collapse]

The reason why I am bringing up your attitude is like you are acting like you know that he won't have a believable claim to save his butt nor do you even try and give him the benefit of the doubt. Plus, I kept on asking you to give me answers to how Xastrn had more connections then Circus but you never showed through as far as I recalled. I asked you this twice and so did Kanty.

When started up an argument with Kantrip that I didn't like and agreed with more of Kantrip's posts than yours was another reason. I also don't like that you are continuing to push Kanty but nothing yet to back it up (Hypocrite thy name is me till this post) However, you have been dropping suspicion of Kanty since yesterDay so I thought you'd have more prepared, that just may be a false premise on my behalf.

One final thing is stuff like this that leaves a bad taste with me.

And I still don't like the whole "oh that sounded like a fake reaction" bit that happened after I was posting that I was annoyed that Xasty was gonna flip town. I can't say that I'm disappointed that he was gonna flip a way that I didn't expect?

And Dasty, if you're reading this: expect a **** punch anyway for being all "go town" then flipping scum.

I say that I don't like what you had been doing with this because it seems fake and then you just go "Oh well I was just annoyed." and then you do it again to making an out of game shout-out to Xastrn saying you weren't expecting it.

It's kind of like the reverse of why some people don't like Raz' comment about Xastrn. He said he was proud of his hitting Xastrn on the head for being scum while yours is more you proclaiming your disappointment for Xastrn actually lying.

 

[Raziek]

Ugh, I need to study. Forcing myself not to post for the rest of the night.

 

[#HBC | J]

I suppose "obsession" might be the wrong word, but you're getting too hung up on this to the point that it feels fake.

Add this under my name with a stamp of approval. Thanks Raz, missed this but yes the way you are over-indulging this Indy/Abductor thing is another alarm bell that you seem to be faking what you are saying.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I feel like Nabe is nit picking a bit, even if he poked at Raziek, I think it was a logical assumption to make with a ??? flip since in mafia only a janitor and an abductor can so that.

Raziek when you get a chance explain to me why you claimed while I am reading the game.

 

[#HBC | J]

WK, give me your thoughts on the John wagon, your opinion on Raz vs. Nabe if not stated (with reads on those two slots), then tell me if you would have either Panta or OS be the FB lynch if it was implemented?

If you throw in a ¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯ read, you get bonus points.

Does Circus' claim make him more trustworthy to you or does something else?

 

[#HBC | J]

WK, could I also get a second scum-pick besides Kanty? Thank you.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

J, who is worthy to trust in this game?

 

[#HBC | J]

No one really but who I like is myself, Raz, Circus can be trustable I gueeeeeess, and Kanty.

I would say Nabe but I don't wanna at the same time. I can't find myself putting trust into Nabe because he is so weird of a slot for me to read. ;_;

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I like that list.

What do you think of John and Nabe?

 

[Overswarm]

Warning: opening this collapse tag will show all of Xastrn's posts. It makes it easier to read for me.

[collapse=Dastrn's posts]

I've never played OoT or Majora's Mask. I really want to play through them sometime, but I hardly ever have time to game these days, other than a little minecraft here and there.

vote: John2k4

because he is next on Overswarm's list, and I like that idea just fine.

OS, hold hands, sir?

(this is dastrn)

I was gonna quickedit to color my post orange (forgot this account doesn't have the auto color set up), but I don't want the edit to throw anyone off.
g:
I'll chat with xatres soon enough, and work out identifiers if you all would prefer knowing who is posting. most likely, I'll post orange, and he'll do green or something, but we will likely make mistakes frequently with colors and accounts and whatnot. I'll do my absolute best to post from the correct account as often as I can, but I apologize now for any mistakes in that regard. I'm a creature of habit, and I have a horrible memory due to my Lyme Disease, so I expect to make frequent mistakes.

I read that exact thing. Seemed like a planned setup to say "i unno" and not chip in for a while. My first instinct was "that's phony."

FOS: Panta

Is anyone here newer in general to mafia?

In your next post (everyone), estimate how many games you've played of forum mafia.

My count is approximately 15 or so. I've played with Overswarm, Circus, J, and Werekill before. The rest of you are mostly not even familiar faces.

1 question mark would have been what a townie would put.
3 question marks? That's scummy as hell.

Did it again. That confirms it.



Your quicktopic told you to not fight it and just jump on the werekill wagon.

**** i did 3 OOO in a row.

scumslip. wont happen again

Wow. I have a lot to say, and I've been holding my tongue because I wanted to see the results of the whole werekill daycopped thing, but RR ruined it in several ways.

1. Don't claim day-cop that early. You wouldn't have copped that early in the day. Fakeclaim N0 cop. That was it's a one shot ability, and no one will expect anything from you day 2. Also, it explains why you used it so early. A real day cop would wait for half of D1 to be over so they had an educated guess on who might be scummy.

2. Don't come clean before werekill gets a chance to show up and go "wait nononono i'm not scum" so we can all read him and see if he's being genuine. you backed off way too early. You even asked for someone to put him at L-1 and then backed off before it happened, as if you were afraid of him accidentally being lynched too fast.

My immediate assumption when you claimed day cop was that it was bogus, but I knew I couldn't post anything to the contrary yet, because I wanted to see who was willing to go along with it, and with what amount of gusto. I assumed no strong, well-established players would get on the bandwagon if they were town, which gives me good reads on circus, OS, and J. I assumed noob-scum would be on the wagon, which gives me bad reads on spell, nabe, john, panta and solid. Considering I already had bad reads on spell, and panta, this is making them both look worse and worse in my book.

RR, you were looking town for your fakeclaim until you reversed it. It makes me think you know something the rest of us don't. You may have read Oddworld and remembered Swiss' similar claim. he claimed n0 cop with a guilty on me, and it didn't work, and my hydra's play in that game won the game for town. We even had scum claim a guilty cop read on us and we survived 2 more days to lynch scum back to back for the win in that game. I'm guessing you read that game and wanted to try something similar? Swiss was scum in that game too, if I remember correctly.

IGMEOY.

OS, I like your king idea. I HATE inactivity in mafia games. That's the main reason I joined this one. I've played primarily broom games in the last year, and they are notoriously inactive games. We can get to day 3 and still not have lynched all the inactives. Scum tends to win more games than they should back there. It's boring. I joined in D-Games to get back into a normal-paced mafia game. Your idea pisses on the inactives. And if there's one thing I like doing, it's urinating on anything that's standing still without making a sound.

Panta is a good choice as a backup lynch because he's on many of our scum lists already. I also appreciate that you aren't saying "i'm king for life. i call all the shots" but passing it to another strong player for day 2. Might I suggest that each king nominates the next, so that you have no further control over the process as it runs it's course?

T-Block, while I appreciate what you're going for with your assessment of the "king" mechanic that OS is proposing, I'm sure you can agree that it will keep scum from coasting, right? It's not set in stone. Even OS wouldn't be opposed to switching the vote to a better candidate before falling back if one arose. The point isn't "it's current lynch candidate or fallback, with no other options". It's more of a "we won't be no lynching in this game" so we have a pre-established fall-back if ALL other lynch candidates fall through and it's getting late in the Day.

If I remember correctly, Werekill is at a competition this weekend, so it might make sense that he hasn't been around in the last 24 hours.

Thanks for a little meta on T-Block. Give me more, I literally had never heard of him until this game.

OS, hold hands?

Thus far, I have made all of our posts. (I'm Dastrn). Xatres works weekends and I work weekdays, so I think there's a strong chance that he'll be inactive on weekends while I'll be more active on weekends. I'll still post throughout the week, but I won't have as much free time for analysis and rereads, but then xatres will be off work all week and will have more time.

he's also got a vacation coming up later this week, so he might be v/la for much of Day1.

t-block, I'm not focused on meta. I would, however, feel foolish to ignore it. Not knowing 2/3rds of the players in this game puts me at a knowledge disadvantage. I'm already at a disadvantage on information because of the whole uninformed majority aspect of being town.
furthermore, I like to hear people make posts and give information. I'm tend to read people very well, but they need to be expressing their opinions frequently for me to get to know what to expect from them. half of my purpose is to get info on you, since you seem like a pretty strong player. the other half is to get info on the rest of the players. I want to see who will volunteer info, who will withhold what they know, and see what people say and how they say it.

I tend to always have one super confident read per game that is spot on no matter who believes me. It's because of little questions like that that feed me style info on people.

Cause we're gay lovers. I just want everyone to know about it.

I'm buddy buddy with OS specifically because we are buddies outside of mafia games. And we haven't interacted much recently, so I'm excited about gaming with him.


@raziek: it is what it is. I was asked why I was asking for information. I answered explicitly, as I have been doing throughout this Day. I don't do a lot of "hiding my thoughts or intentions" in mafia games. I believe that Town has more to gain from transparency than scum does. similarly, scum has more to gain from withholding info and reasoning than town does.

I was asked why I asked for meta. I answered my real reason: I need info on people, and I don't have any yet, other than what I've been able to read in this game. Many of you in this game have played with everyone else in the game.

Raziek, what's your general read on me? You're caught up, right?
I'm also curious what you think of OS' idea and me and T-Blocks thoughts on the idea.
one last question: which faction do you think posts more gifs to communicate? Scum or town? (not a loaded question. I'm curious from a psychological perspective what you think about each faction's likelihood to post gifs in a thread.

I'm suddenly excited because I keep forgetting I'm a hydra. I can't wait to get xatres' read's on everyone. It's like being masons with only life and one vote. I'm not sure he's even read our role PM let alone the thread. Gonna call him now.

that gif reminds me of arguing with inui in the BBR a few years ago. ick.

I always try to be cautious Day1 in particular. bold moves this early are mostly smoke and mirrors, right? like day1 cop claims and such. We have NOTHING to go on besides very simple reads with no real info. We have no flips. All we can do is READ each other, right? So I focus day 1 on lots of reads and build little psychological profiles on everyone I can.
I've stated why i'm buddying OS. I'm also equally NOT buddying spellcasters and panta.
When I have serious reads, i'll express them. I've so far called out spell for little picky stuff primarily to get him to react. He already demonstrated some things to me: he doesn't pay close attention is the first thing. I pretended (sort of, mostly) that three ? in a row looked shady. He did it again in his next post. that tells me that he types without thinking. that means that if he is scum, it will be in plain sight, because he will react without coming up with a good plan. He also revealed his passive noob card by fighting the wagon until it was halfway done, and then jumping aboard. that is SUPER scummy in my book. Scum tend to join the middle of the wagon, not the end. especially cheap day 1 wagons with no real legs. Combining spells' proven "i'll post without thinking" and then him posting a vote on werekill super quick shortly thereafter, I've developed a scum-leaning read on him. He'll be bad for town no matter what. he's either scum, or he'll FOLLOW scum. No good. He's a perfect day 1 candidate.
My read on panta has been stated.

Any other questions? I will be around most of the day. I'm juts planning on sitting around on my laptop coding all day.

only once, in oddworld, as far as I remember. That was 1 year ago.
I haven't seen him since the game started because he works for me all day Friday-Sunday. I've been operating solo since the game started. I haven't hydra'd since that oddworld game, so I just remembered how fun it was to sit together for a few hours and reread the thread and bounce reads off of each other.

<real life tag>
xatres is my younger brother. not sure if that's common knowledge. during oddworld, he actually lived in my house. he's got his own place now, but still works for me.
</real life tag>

I haven't backed up my case with a vote yet for several reasons. #1 I told john2k that my vote would be on him until I had a reason otherwise. While it was a joke vote, I'll follow through on what I said and let john2k post why he is not scum and why someone else is, and then I'll keep it or move it accordingly. #2 I don't feel like we are anywhere close to a lynch and I don't often toss my votes at whoever is the scummiest player of the moment.

J, if you don't like what I said in red, then offer an alternative for how to pick a lynch candidate on Day1. With no information other than purely subjective reads on each other, and no flips to give us relational analysis, all we can do is figure out WHO's flip will give us something we can work with and do our best to hit scum, recognizing that it's probably a 20-30% chance at best that we'll hit one blind on day 1. I think spell is scummy, and even if he isn't scum, I think his playstyle is dangerous for town and helpful for scum. Why would scum lynch a player that they can court around the game instead?

J: would you want spellcasters in mylo?

Oh I agree completely. It seems like we just disagree slightly about what Day1 is useful for. I agree that players with lots of interactions make good lynch candidates and that spell hasn't had many. But we have like 8 more days to chat, and I would hope we are smart enough not to lynch too early. if a wagon formed on spell in the next 48 hours, he would have almost a full week to defend himself and argue back and then we'd have the interactions to work with, right? He wouldn't let the wagon roll without posting, right?

I've posted my (admittedly weak and early) reads on why I think he's scummy. I've presented that my primary reason for thinking of him as a primary lynch candidate is a combination of a psychological read and his uselessness to town and usefulness to scum as the game drags on.

This will sound weird but hear me out: if we HAVE to mislynch, it had better be day 1, right? spell may or may not be scum. I'd say it's only a 40% likelihood at best in my opinion (subjective and wild guess...) But since we HAVE to go with a lynch with no solid information (cops, watchers, etc) OR based on interactions and flips (Day 2 and forward only), then day 1 lynches are going to be shots in the dark.

THEREFORE, I tend to try to use day1 lynches to either get rid of anti-town behavior (inactivity is the classic example. raise your hand if you've never been on a inactive player's wagon on Day 1 in a mafia game). I just think spell's style is way too anti-town to want to drag him around all game.

note: i use all caps in words for emphasis, not for shouting.

also, raz, thanks for answering regarding gifs. I mostly agree with you. I just wanted to hear you defend yourself on something super minor.

*jots a note in my notebook*

I already stated my reason.

I laughed pretty hard while eating tuna. It hurts in the back of my nose now...

oh sorry forgot to post a gif.

Raziek, where do i know you from? were you in the bbr when i was there?

Yup. I called it (humbly): Dastrn's Stage Striking System. I basically proposed 1 stage list of 13-15-17 stages, and one stage striking process at the beginning of each set, down to 3-5-7 stages depending on if it was best of 3-5-7. Then you double blind all three games, playing 1 game on each stage.

I'll nitpick to prove a point: if he doesn't really know how to play, which faction does his resulting play favor most?

@John2k4, I see you lurking.

Are you scum?
If not, why not and who is?

Would you agree therefore, that he's either scum or favoring scum?

see what I'm saying?


Yes. On account of the gay.

At first I was going to type *takes a bow* but then I thought it'd be funny to post an ace attorney bowing pic like inui used to always do, but then I threw up a little and decided to do neither.


oh hey, i just noticed you're from arizona. I lived out there in 08-09. I used to play with JustinKamikaze and duff0 and the whole tempe crew (chris and bryce and i forget who else) oh and saffy and a couple other people. Oh bloodhawk.

Raziek's day job:

Keep playing without him?

I don't have a master plan all sorted out. It's day 1. I'll keep analyzing what I'm reading, and look for good opportunities to ask a lot of questions. When we have a good pro-town lynch candidate (meaning the lynch is pro-town, not the candidate) then I'll make my case and see what happens.

Also, I didn't want to lynch him FAST, if that's what you mean by early. But he was the right play to put pressure on when I did, and it's working out well. If he replaces out, maybe someone will come in with a bit more experience and fill his spot and then we won't have to worry about anti-town behavior. I'm completely happy with the results of my early pressure on spell.

More seriously, No, I don't intend to follow everything OS says/does. I just got behind an idea early because I saw the merit, and I've had way too many mafia games ruined by inactivity. J, you'll remember our first game together, you were very inactive through day 2 into day 3, and i called for your lynch several times, only to eventually save you from a mislynch when you were our doc. In my very next game, which I think was the other majora's mask game, I immediately voted you because you were inactive in the other game but joined another.

seriously, I hate inactivity in these games.

OS I have an assignment for you. Pick a cutoff post: (this one will work just fine) and count everyone's posts from the first post of the game starting until this one.

If anyone does this before OS, then I'll send you a chocolate in the mail.

I don't know how that works, but thanks.

I'm going to guess that half our scum are in the bottom half of that list.

Caution is a YELLOW flag:

He shoots rifles competitively. I think I remember him telling me on Thursday that he had a big competition this weekend and would be traveling.

It's not haphazard at all. It's distinctly pro-town.

Oh i thought you meant my case on spell.

Yeah, I'm just speculating on scum being largely inactive.

I see that as mostly a null tell on RR. I don't see why a townie couldn't try a play like that to get a read on people. I thought it was obvious to almost everyone in the game that it was a fake claim just to get conversation going. Doesn't mean he's on either faction. If anything, it might be a slight town-tell.

His timing on backing off was poor, but that was just poor playing, not scummy playing, if you ask me.

My bad. told you that would happen.

I took the last few hours away from the keyboard to meet with a developer friend...details don't matter.

I like the general flow of today's actions.

OS, i like your spreadsheet. I wish you were in the broom so you could understand how much I like spreadsheets in mafia games. it's become a meme back there.

I need to reread the last 3 pages or so to get a better feel on this sudden circus wagon. I still don't want to unvote my joke vote because I still want John2k to do SOMETHING.

Also, Frio. There, I said his name. The last player i haven't interacted with.

**** did it again.

i'm tired. sorry.

I was scum in a broom game and did a big spreadsheet demonstrating a "proven" town win if everyone followed my plan.

I'm just putting that out there, so no one assumes that only town work hard to win games. that seems to be a common feeling.

(none of that is intended to say that OS is scum. I'm just saying the spreadsheet is a null tell.



Defending a player makes someone town? You're just asking to be duped all game with that kind of thinking.



Exactly. Straight from the horses mouth, no less.

slight town tell on this post, just because he didn't let it slide to claim the small rep boost but corrected it. pro-town behavior.



I agree. They both jumped on the middle of a bangwagon FAST. Both were basically OMGUS votes. slight scum tell or noobtown tell. I don't know which.

I also want to point out that circus' reaction is too extreme. He's not playing a calm town. I haven't liked how he's floated under the radar without making very significant contributions, so I have a slight scum read on him thus far. Not enough to jump on his wagon yet, but I'd be down with a circus lynch if nothing better arises Day 1. 40% certainty is really all it takes on Day1. If this was a day2 wagon, I'd expect a hell of a lot more on circus before he'd get my vote.

Just what I was thinking.

*cough*
not trying to buddy on this post. He just said what I was thinking.
I'll buddy in OTHER posts. Don't worry bout that.
*cough*

J to respond to your fluff request:

I enjoy the game, but I am also here to socialize to a small extent. I will continue to include small amounts of that in my posts unless a moderator tells me it's too distracting. I'm not going to tell you what I just had for breakfast or anything, but in that case, I was addressed as suddenly missing for several hours, so I posted that a potential business partner wanted to meet for a few hours and that took me away from the game.

I also posted about the broom spreadsheet thing because it was applicable to the conversation. I am known for making spreadsheets in mafia games, and I've done so from both sides. Posting about it was directly useful and not really fluff at all. there may have been an aspect of that post that was social, but I won't apologize for that.

There's like 8 people in this game I don't know. I'm hoping that I'll know them a little bit better, even if only in personality, by the end of this game. You and I played a couple games together when you first started playing here, and while we don't know each other terribly well yet, I think that history is useful both in-game and socially on the boards as a whole.

I've also remarked on John2k being from arizona, raz and I talked about the stage striking system, OS and I have a long history that has been briefly referenced, etc.

One last thought on this and I'll quit responding to your question. I have Lyme Disease, which among other things affects my brain. I have a horribly memory and I'm having difficulty remembering who is who in this game. I can't keep certain players separate without some sort of "hook" in my brain to hang them on. John is now my "arizona" player. Raziek is my "stage selection" player. J is my "oddworld" player. RR is my "new swiss, with less confidence" player. I sometimes need connections external to the game to help me keep track of who's who, especiallly when there are so many people here I don't know.

I hope that helps, cause I'm going to continue to have small posts with a little fluff and you'll have to get used to it a bit.

Someone call me out for using my disease as an appeal to emotion. I've got the ACLU on hold!

Did I miss something from the mod or do you know something I don't?

I've stated before that I don't believe Day 1 is a time any of us can be confident in our reads 100%. Of course I should play it safe day 1. I'm not an aggressive player, anyways, and day 1 is the wrong day for confidence. Give me until day 3 and then I promise you'll see some major confidence in my analysis.

With that said, I think the circus lynch is most likely the best plan for the day that I've seen yet. I always enjoy the silly banter and fake claims and joke votes and half-serious accusations that come out of the first 48 hours of Day 1. The reason is because if you're smart, you won't take much of it serious, and will take note of reactions instead. Circus' reaction to this heat (which was a good day 1 case to build, and a weak day 2-> case) has been scummy, in my eyes. It's been a very emotionally driven "W/e you are all scum jerks" reaction instead of a cool and collected reaction. I would generally expect circus to reaction more cool, so something's fishy with his reaction IMO.

With all of that said, no I don't have any stronger scum reads than Circus, but I still only think it's like 40% certain he's scum. 40% is a strong day 1 lynch candidate. The only other good candidates that have arisen thus far, if you ask me, are werekill, John, Frio, and Dabuz. I won't give you my strongest town reads right now because town lists are NK lists in the hands of scum.

did it again. sorry again. I'm at work, and my work computer auto logs me in as Dastrn.

we counted the stars.

unvote
Vote: Red Ryu

+1 point for using that phrase. I teach on cognitive dissonance to my staff and my boys.

Although I agree that your post that OS said "reeks" did in fact "reek." so -1 for that post.

null read on raziek right now. I think i'm feeling the flip side of our philosophy differences, so, I won't worry too much about it for now.

I'm still happy with OS is playing. He seems like he's pressuring people well to bait mistakes out of scum. I can't see a scum-aligned motivation for most of his actions. because he likes that pic.

I'm still reading scum on John.

My vote is now on Red Ryu, though. And I think he's a better lynch candidate than Circus. While I haven't been impressed with circus' reaction to the pressure, and I think most of that pressure is coming from townies, I expect that there are some scum on that wagon. I also think the same scum were on the early werekill wagon.

RR, I voted for you because you seem intent on expressing yourself with (not)clever gifs rather than using words. Gifs won't hold you responsible for their content. but we will hold you to every word. Get over ace attorney or whatever that game is. It's not even a good game. Play THIS game. with words. Quit hiding behind pictures.

Everyone else that is posting pictures is also being verbose and open. You are hiding. scum hide.

i recommend we switch this wagon. I also recommend that we make CIRCUS our fallback, instead of Panta, for now.

i'm too tired...sorry.

gonna mostly not keep up tonight, and then I'll play more tomorrow morning.

Right here. You replied to a 158 word post with 1 gif and 8 words. I had to reveal a lot more of myself in that accusation than you are in your reply. Shows fear of revealing oneself.

I don't anticipate being terribly active tonight. Long day at work again, two days in a row. I will say that I'm a bit glad that the wagon on circus is cooling, and I'm even glad (to a logical extent) that J is returning his vote on me instead of just waiting for raziek to move first. It shows that he's still thinking for himself, despite holding hands with another strong player.
+2 to J

I'm curious how people are feeling about Red Ryu and Panta right now. I don't mind putting some heat on John as well, but Panta has been passively shrugging off whatever day1 pressure he's faced by just being passive, which I hate. OS's idea of keeping him as a fallback guy is strong precisely because he will be forced to scramble and start posting soon, or else run the risk of being lynched purely because he didn't help town find someone better to lynch. I'm ok with lynching an inactive on day 1 for SURE.

I'd like people's reads on RR, please.

@RedRyu: what are your overall thoughts on John and Panta. Also, if you had to make a top 3 day 1 lynch candidates list, who would be on it? Order can be unspecified for now. Give us short reasons why for each candidate, if you will.

Oh also, I should note, Xatres took a trip to see his girlfriend. Left last night on a train. I think he's out of town like 8-9 days. I have absolutely no idea what his intentions are for activity during that time. It's entirely possible that I'll be playing this game solo until Day2, which blows. I didn't even know he was leaving town until yesterday when my wife told me he came by on his way to the train station.

I cannot confirm if he's even read our Role PM yet, or has read this thread at all. If day 2 starts and he's still not around, i'll probably just take over solo permanently and we'll hydra our next game instead. (assuming x1 is ok with this.)

Just an FYI.

dabuz, I appreciate what you're working on with your case against me but it's like swiss cheese.

Do you know something I don't is what ALL the players in this game are asking each other. I'm just more direct that many others. Subtlety is for scum. I'm going to ask what I mean and mean what I say. If I'm all out there, then no one will have to do any crazy guesswork if I'm killed later and they are looking for connections. that's why I almost never breadcrumb, too.

Did I miss something from the mod: at that point, there was 440 posts in the thread. It's quicker to ask than it is to reread the whole thread.

My response to J's "do you have a plan" was "no, I don't have a plan. I'm going to do what we all are doing and keep reading, asking questions, and look for a good lynch." I think of day 1 in maybe a unique way, but I'm looking for a lynch that will set us up for day 2 forward. It may or may not be the scummiest player at the current time. Circus has looked mad scummy, but most of us are coming around on him and thinking he's just an over-reacting town, you know? I can't just lynch someone who feels scummy on day 1. I need information from that flip. Otherwise, we'll have what we had in our most recent game in the broom (30 rock mafia) where we no lynched on day 1 and it haunted us throughout the whole game from then on. It was a nightmare.

I made comments about inactivity because it was specifically relevant to the question being asked. And I reiterated that inactivity is a huge pet peeve of mine in these games. The reason I'm in this game is because I was in several broom games in a row that were super inactive and pretty lame. I needed a GOOD mafia fix to make me feel better about mafia. D-Games are more active than broom games.

My post regardin the J history was intended to answer his question by referring to the two games we've played together. I pointed out specifically that both games, I was voting for inactives until they became active, and then backed off. I noticed that you didn't reference my post of "I voted for you immediately (J) because you had been inactive" as an opposite-AtE. You cherry picked one thing I said nice about how I saved J and won the game as an AtE and ignored the VERY NEXT SENTENCE that contradicted your idea about what I was trying to accomplish.

You are looking for subtle tricks, and I'm just not that guy.

I asked OS for the chart and he posted it. that doesn't mean that i was responsible for analyzing it out loud with everyone, does it? I love that chart, and I'd like OS to post updates every 48 hours or so, to keep it fresh for us. The purpose of that chart isn't to have secret private information. The purpose is to FORCE scum to talk to each other, and to force inactives to post, and to force passives to take stances. All three of those are pro-town, and they only happen if he POSTS the chart. do you see what I mean? You aren't looking deep enough at this. S'ok, you're relatively new, but I just want you to understand that you're looking for subtlety in exactly the wrong ways, and missing nuances of what's going on.


This is really bad. I am allowed to think two parties who are bickering are both scummy, right? Have you ever heard of "bussing" before? Where scum attack each other so that if one flips, the other looks better. Not every argument is town vs scum. Sometimes it's TvT, or SvS. I felt like in that argument, that neither side was winning town points. So what do you want me to do? support one against the other? or give my HONEST assessment that both sides look bad?

Furthermore, I called BOTH sides scum. that's the opposite of "not wanting to take a stance" unless you are the type of thinker where you think every argument has a right and wrong, and one political party is completely right and one is completely wrong, etc. This is mafia. Everything is in shades of grey. ESPECIALLY on day 1.

You're wrong, but nice try. You're case here was "i don't think he was thinking that..." If that's the best you got, then I don't mind ripping your arguments to shreds all day. It's like wrestling with a roll of toilet paper.

Regarding the interaction between J and I, yeah, I forgot to answer the "what do you want from John" question. Caught me forgetting to answer a question. SCUMSLIP!
I had expressed what I wanted from john twice before. I wanted him to post his reads, and tell me why he's not scum. At some point, I was satisfied with what he was doing, (even though he was on my scummy-ish list) and moved my vote to someone who I felt was specifically more scummy AND would give us more information on his flip: RR. Remember how day 1 lynches are all about information? RR gave us TONS of interactions to re-read on day 2 based on his flip, when he fake-claimed early. We can see all of that history after his flip, and come up with smart assessments about who might be likely scum partners or whatever depending on the flip.

So I had a combination of scummy and "gives me lots of info" in a RR lynch and I voted RR and asked the game to consider swinging away from circus, but leaving a circus vote on the table as a backup.

Why would I do that? I've stated my day 1 philosophy. Why would switching the backup from panta to circus be a part of my plan?

Dude. stop. seriously.

oopsididitagain

Role fishing is dangerous



I don't like how spread out our votes are right now. Almost every player is voting someone different.



I agree with solid here. WK is pushing too hard on this one. I think he's missing the point of the soft-claim.



Now you want a name claim?

I'm starting to wonder about whether WK has some sort of power based on name. Like maybe he's a vig that can only target my flavor name, or something. Or Role-block by name? That might make more sense.



That's a VERY dangerous stance to take. Why wouldn't scum want to work as hard as town? Who says only town works hard to win?



+1 to circus.

I've got a strong town read on OS, but still, it has NOTHING to do with that chart.



Werekill, I think you are scum. If I didn't want Red Ryu dead so badly, I'd flip to you in a heartbeat.



10facepalms

@Everyone:

Raise your hand if you think Red Ryu is most likely town.

I want Red Ryu dead because he's giving us nothing but wanting to appear active. He's specifically trying to post frequently without giving any real content that shows what he actually believes and giving us something to hold him to.

I can't say "but didn't you post THIS gay ace attorney picture. that proves that you are lying...."
I can say that about him if he posts actual words. He's deliberately hiding.

That's the short version. If people expect a super long multi-quote case on this guy who ISN'T posting content on DAY 1, then you'll be disappointed for several obvious reasons.

He's a good day 1 lynch.

What we need to make him a GREAT day is for more people to give reads on him, and for RR to post more WORDS about what he thinks about people.

Side note: If I ever moderate back here, I'm not kidding I will MOD vote every time some one posts an ace attorney gif. But instead of the vote being labelled "MOD" it will labelled "DIE INUI!"

i swear to christ you guys.

i'm so sick of having to pull up firefox every time i want to make a post...

I WANT him dead a lot more than we NEED him dead. His playstyle is irritating as all hell, and is anti-town. there are several other good lynches toDay, particularly Werekill, and I'm not suggesting that Red Ryu is the only good choice.

I'm well aware that my reasonings for him needing to die are not bulletproof. As I've been saying all Day, day 1 lynches are NEVER bulletproof. They are always sketchy at best. that's why I tend to not go all in and get gung-ho about day 1 lynches. I'll be happy to see a werekill lynch toDay, and I can tolerate a few other possibilities. But I'll cheer when Red Ryu is dead because he is deliberately being anti-town AND being deliberately obnoxious about it.

Here they are, unedited:

7 times in this game, rather than posting words that we can hold you accountable for, you posted ******** juvenile gifs. You're trying to appear clever, but it's not going to work. We've all seen the michael jackson popcorn gif posted two trillion times, and it was only funny like twice, back in 1997. AA gifs got super OLD like 4 years ago, and are a sign of a troll on these boards. Posting Friday gifs is like the definition of forcing a meme.

You're hiding behind all of this because you have to, because you have something to gain from not letting us dissect your WORDS. I guarantee I've written 8 times the total words that you have, and I'm not even the most prolific poster in this game. You're just embarrassing yourself with no gain.

important:
The only way you stand to gain from your playstyle is if you can discredit whoever calls you out on it, and try to do so in a clever manner to appear disarming. Not going to work, and I'm not going to back off until you learn to express your feelings with your own words, instead of recycling tired memes as a shield.

If i was a vig, I'd just vig you and lynch werekill instead. Werekill is a better day 1 lynch target because of the connections he's established. But you're just scummy through and through.

blah, look it up yourself. Community is on.

also, stop it.

I'm not really that irritated. I'm watching the best show on tv and eating enchiladas. But I do hate ace attorney and will never play it specifically because of how obnoxious AA gifs are.

But you should consider NOT posting those gifs because they are super lame.

Because antagonizing me is fun. Got it. Pro-town behavior.

The reason raz told you to be quiet is because I ripped dabuz' case on me to shreds already.

The one good thing about this wagon is that I have interacted with LOTS of people in this game, and if you guys honestly want to run THIS through, then it will give you lots to work with tomorrow. Easy wagon-riders voting in the middle of this wagon look way scummy tomorrow. But you won't know that until I flip, so that's doesn't mean scamper off the wagon now. Let it do it's thing.

I'm ok with RR not being the lynch toDay. I just think he's scum, is all, and I've explained why several times. Do your own homework and look up my posts regarding him.

Why are you defending him so hard? He's not even defending himself. Let him speak for himself. I can't think of a pro-town reason for you to be trying to rip that case up when he hasn't even bothered addressing it, and HE ASKED FOR IT himself.

I shouldn't move my vote to werekill yet. RR should answer my case against him. Werekill will get lynched soon enough, whether I make the case now or later or someone else does. I think werekill is probably the best lynch for toDay, but that doesn't mean my vote will be with him yet. votes have a lot more purpose than just contributing to a lynch, right?

how many votes would you estimate have been made toDay? How many of them will be on our final lynch candidate? Only a small % of votes accomplish a lynch. the rest are used to apply pressure in various directions to see how people react under pressure.

I've made my case against RR. I've stated explicitly that I'm very aware that it's not a terribly deep case. I've also stated explicitly that I don't believe Day1 cases are required to be deep.

circus, you've paid attention well. What have I always said day 1 cases are about?

I'm not sure he is. Werekill or kantrip might be better. doesn't mean I can't make a case. For a while, i thought YOU were the best lynch toDay. changed my mind the more I saw from you. I might do the same with RR , if he will ever give us something to read. Everyone is letting him get away with it, but I won't. If I get lynched, I'll go down saying "look at RR coasting" all the way to the end.

I suggested that at the time because YOU were the current wagon, and I was hoping to swing it away from you. You had heat on you from many players, so I suggested to them that if they still felt that way about you, but were willing to flip to RR, then we could still keep you as the backup. Notice, of course, that I was moving you from "current target" to "potential backup target". i wasn't moving you from "some guy in this game" to "likely lynch candidate."

no one in particular. Especially on day 1, voting patterns are of particular interest for me, since we have very little else to study. when do scum join wagons? do they start them, hammer, or join in the middle? you tell me.

[qupte]
He's been caught faking content himself and he doesn't know what to do about it.

What do you mean "faking content"? Like, posting fluff?[/QUOTE]

What you're ignoring is that you are posting gifs to communicate a feeling you are having, or a reaction to what someone else is saying. And you're not using words, which we can hold you to. you are posting gifs that you can pretend later meant ANYTHING.

Adding 1 sentence or 2 sentences tops after your gif doesn't mean you made a well-thought out post. I'm posting 200-400 word posts to make my cases and defenses. So is circus. so is J. Werekill and Raz and Nabe are all doing more. OS's posts have rare in the last 36 hours but when he posts they are long. same with t-blocks.

You stand out, IMO, because you are posting 1 sentence posts with a gif. Notice how my words and circus' words have brought us under scrutiny? that's how this is SUPPOSED to work. it' a good thing. We have to defend ourselves, and we are saying things we're going to be held to all game.

@everyone: other than general reads on people, what can you tell me about Red Ryu's opinion on certain play styles, his stance on what types of players are best lynches on day 1, what his plan is going into day 2, or ANYTHING else other than general scum/town stances on people? It's vague in my mind at best, and I'm guessing it's the same in yours. That vagueness is what this is all about.

I noticed that I've been accused of ignoring people's questions. I'm not sure what I've missed. Someone post something that they think I've ignored if they want me to respond to it, and I'll do as asap. Gonna be working from 10-5 and I won't be able to check the thread during that time, but I'll get back to it when I can.



Your vote count is wrong.

solid, you are deliberately cherry picking from my post and ignoring things I'm saying. I said his playstyle is irritating as hell, and is anti-town. you skipped the "is anti town" part and pretended that all I said was that it was irritating.
I said werekill was probably the most scummy player, and that RR is simply anti-town + annoying. You're saying I'm calling RR my TOP scum pick. I'm not. I've said he's scummy as hell. I've not said "he's my TOP scum pick."

I've explained explicitly that I don't just vote for whoever is scummiest. If you don't understand that, then you are deliberately being dense.

I think you're scum, btw. late joining a wagon just because you think you can get away with it, and making a super weak, easily-shredded post as justification is bad. Also, you're trying to appear cautious by not voting yet, so it isn't so obvious.

Thanks raz.

I don't think I've said I have no clue why. Link me saying it if I'm remembering incorrectly. I know I've said there's no good case on me, despite several votes. But that's different.

The idea is that people are perceiving my case on RR as weak, and they haven't seen my push hard on anyone all game and then I suddenly got all over RR for a relatively small issue. They are likely perceiving a disparity in my playstyle.

I feel that I've explained the roots of my issue with RR. I also feel that I've been consistent in my explanation of how I view the usefulness of votes on day1 in particular.

I'm interested to hear how other players who aren't on my wagon think about all this stuff. It looks like I'm at L-2 or L-3, depending on if X1 has corrected his votecount (you had me voting for myself instead of for RR). Whoever's not on my wagon, can you chime in on this stuff? I've asked a lot of @everyone questions that have been largely ignored. I don't get as irritated as some people do when my questions get missed, but it'd be a shame to let a lynch go through without half the game's participation. My flip, should this lynch go through, needs to be useful and give you all lots to work with. You've seen a lot of interaction between me and circus, J, raz, and to a lesser extent OS and werekill and RR. But hat leaves John, Nabe, Kantrip, dabuz, and a few others that haven't been quite as active in this case (not to the same extent as the others, anyways).

dabuz, nabe and circus are the weak middle-wagon hoppers. raz to a lesser extent, because he joined mostly because you two are buddying. (side note: I've rubbed OS' shoulders a bit this game. raz, J, and t-blocks have much more actively buddied. I got called out for mine. they didn't. anyone want to offer an explanation?)

j, i don't understand your last question with the hand slam gif. can you rephrase it for me?

I'm logging off for the next 8 hours or so. off to work. i might hop in to read from time to time but I can't do much besides that, and probably won't post again until about 7pm eastern.

yes i did. i linked all of them in one post.

the orange inside the quote is mine. gotta go so i can't break it all up.

This is probably the best post you've made all game. I wish I didn't have to pressure you so hard to agree that gifs aren't communicating as well as your words will.

The biggest reason I've had a scum read on you this whole time is because when the rest of us were putting our thoughts out there, you seemed content trying to look clever without giving us as much to work with that we could pin you to later.

If you can keep posting like this one, then I'll be a lot happier with keeping you around, and we'll actually be able to read you based on what you say. Then I'll be able to have a more accurate read on you, scum or town.

I'll be looking for a better target for my vote soon. (still at work, just had a break to catch up. Soon in this case might mean 5 hours from now.)

I had a random thought. Imagine a game where you were only allowed to post pictures, and you weren't allowed to just create something new for your thoughts, but had to find it already out there online.

It'd be damn near impossible to catch scum.

Nabe, you're not paying attention. I haven't ever voted for werekill.

My entire vote history is:
John2k
Red Ryu

Wow, I can't believe how bad your post was. You called it a "string of votes" when I made one early vote and one vote mid Day and that's it. You just pulled that right out of your ***.

FOS Nabe.

There are several miscommunications here that shed some significant light on this. I'll try to clarify, and perhaps this will make some things make way more sense for you.


I'm going to disappoint you if you expect me to link many OS posts that prove he's town. I can't prove it. It's just a strong hunch based on knowing each other pretty well.
We spent a few years in the brawl back room together, playing tournaments together, and we've kept up somewhat consistently since then. I just know him well, and I've argued alongside and against him dozens of times, and all of that gives me confidence that I can read him rather well. I rely on cold-reading people professionally (working with juvenile delinquents) so I have rather well-refined skills in this regard, particularly when I know people.
That's the entire basis of my read on OS. Sure, it's because of his posts, but nothing I can link you will look "strong" to anyone but me, so I think it would be counter productive in THIS case to try to demonstrate it with posts.

I'm aware that you and some other people will not be satisfied by that. I'm similarly not satisfied with other people's assessments of what they see. There are things I would call asinine that other would accept as a good argument, and vice versa.





here's one big miscommunication. I didn't intend to say I had no idea why people didn't like me. I actually said "there has been no case made against me" not "I don't know why people don't like me." There's a big difference. I'm aware that my playstyle is outside of the norm for this room. I don't primarily play in this room, so that's to be expected. Raziek and I already butted heads once toDay, and he and I both experienced that dissonance that we both felt boiled down to playstyle and philosophical differences that are null tells.




Mechanical WORKS on day one. I'm glad other players try gambits and tricks, and I encourage that. You might remember I even played along with RR's gambit to see who else was biting. I also voted spells(i think it was him) for posting 3 ??? in several posts. Just screwing around a bit to get people reacting. But for the most part, I'm a rather mechanical player. It comes with being a math whiz, computer programmer, and a hyper analytical mind. I can appreciate the tricksies and double-speak and whatnot, but it's just not me.
If you expect me to be the guy that provides a big twist in the middle of the game where I reveal my secrets or reveal how I bread-crumbed info or whatever, you'll be disappointed. Town is already at a disadvantage in information. I try to play as transparently as possible to make up for this disadvantage. I need as many people as possible to know what to expect from me so they can make wise decisions with what I'm putting out there. There should be no guesswork for town in terms of what to expect from me. Guesswork muddies things up, and that's pro-scum, not pro-town.


I've explained why it's not random. OS and I know each other. I trust my ability to read him well. I was hoping that he'd interact with me frequently so that I could get a feel for him. I'm sad that he's largely ignored me. not personally, but from a game perspective, as it shows a wariness to be "known" if that makes sense. The longer he's ignored me, the less I've felt that strong tow-read, but I'm still far from being ok with his lynch any time soon. If he's more active day 2, (and he'll HAVE to be to expect to stay alive, as it seems this group will keep him active or vote him) he'll give me a lot to work with.

To an extent, yes. But this is day 1, so who knows? a flip or two will make all of that more meaningful. if they hop in mid lynch, and i flip scum, then it doesn't look NEARLY as bad, for example.


he seems like a weak player to me, so I don't expect his late vote to be very well-thought out. His entire post history is full of "i unno...guess I should look deeper, huh?" posts, so he's on my "can die" list for sure. there are a lot more useful players in this game doing FAR more to contribute to scum-hunting.



Major miscommunication here. I never was trying to communicate that I thought he was town. I was trying to see if ANYONE in the game was getting a town read on RR, because I didn't expect anyone to say they did. I believe I was correct. I don't remember anyone raising their hands. (correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.)

I can see how this would have thrown up major caution flags (YELLOW not RED) for anyone who misunderstood what I meant by that post.


I'd say I've been doing way too much defending recently, and I'd like to make a case against some one else. I've been hesitating to post my case against him for a while, out of fear that it would be dismissed too quickly as me just trying to remove heat from myself. I'm confident in my ability to cool the heat on me by simply posting what's true about what I'm thinking and letting the cards fall.

I'll be re-reading to put together my case in a minute. I already have a scum read on this player, but I haven't made a serious case against them yet. (it's not werekill.)

I'll post this case by no later than tonight. Depending how late the fights go, it might be more or less long. I'm going out at 8pm for the fights, and I have work to do between now and then, so i might not get all my research done in time to make a HUGE post.


Let me know if I've missed anything. I think I deleted one paragraph since it was addressed more specifically below or above, but if I missed an important question in there, let me know and I'll address it as best as I can by tonight.

Every post before this one was extremely short and incredibly light on content.

This feels like an attempt to play both sides, hold a weak stance, but pretend to contribute.
Read this paragraph and ask yourself "did Solid say ANYTHING in this paragraph?"
I'm noticing that this is the trend with his posts.


Hi, I'm Solid and I don't take specific stances on things.


Notice that when he DOES take a stance, it's one that's already popular.


As much as I love A Song of Ice and Fire, this whole bit was distracting and didn't add to the game. It just screams "i'm trying to look like i'm helping and being clever" when it isn't doing much of either. The fact that it's a not-quite-mainstream fantasy story that is not likely to have been read by the majority of the rest of us makes it a useless-to-town trick.


This is an example of several one liner posts that add to his middling post count, but don't contribute much.

Solid had 54 posts total when I did his post search. that places him firmly in the middle of the activity scale. perfect place for scum to hide out. Not going to be called out for inactivity, but not giving us much more to play with.

Other players using this include OS. -1 to him. I offered buddying to him hoping it'd be useful, but thus far he's given me very little to want to keep him around, other than his potential at possibly being useful. His chart was nice, but he hasn't offered any updates, nor has he indicated that he will definitely keep it going. i'm left wondering if I should recreate my own version from scratch, or hope he updates it or what.
His utility is like Obama winning the nobel prize before doing ANYTHING to promote peace. It's all potential, and none of it is being actualized.
@ OS: You need to give us more.




All questions. No content. Solid is consistently posting nothing of his own, but keeping his post count up with tiny contributions or questions without real dialogue.

Also, he kept the Game of thrones stuff going. not helpful. (way better than ace attorney stuff, though.)





Fluff. more questions. no content. more game of thrones.



More questions. One sentence of his own thoughts: He doesn't like werekill. a very popular sentiment at the time of his post. Scum do that.


No content. Just chatter. voting for another inactive who isn't popular. more tiny questions.



Tiny questions. STILL no content.

Solid is offering NOTHING of himself up, but keeps looking active by just poking at the game here and there with little questions.


At this point, I can tell Raziek and J are keying in Solid's lack of content and both start asking him directly for his reads.



He likes circus, doesn't like john.



When asked his opinion of the three of us, his three responses are:
1. i unno
2. i unno
3. i unno.


<.<
>.>




Actually points out that when players don't put themselves out there and display their opinion, you can't be sure of them. He's well aware of what he's doing. At this point, OS had contributed quite a bit more to the game than Solid had.



Post count padding. I've skipped most of his padding posts, but there are like 10 of these type of posts in the thread. brings his true post count down into the low 40s at best, and most of those have been weak, short, and not sharing anything of himself.


More tiny thoughts, all easy stuff to say.
Calls people out for coasting, but solid isn't really contributing at ALL.

Ask yourself this: what has Solid brought to this game.
I can't come up with anything at all.
John and Frio are in the same boat, as is Dabuz to a lesser extent.
At least RR gave us his gambit and OS gave us those charts. Werekill and circus have had their share of the spotlight, and while neither handled it well, we can at least expect them to contribute and give us more to read on day 2 ->.
I'd rather lynch a half-contributing person who won't give us much more on day 2 (based on his day 1 play) than someone like circus or wk who are at least giving us more to read. Solid is a good lynch toDay.

Give me a reason to and I'll think about it.



You weren't around when you were at L-1, so why are you so hung up about it?



Finally a post with more than 2 sentences. Let's see here...oh they are all 1-2 sentence replies to lots of other posts. He's basically giving us 4 of his usual short posts, but all in one to make it look longer.

Lots of "meh" in all this. lots of "i'm interested to see..." or "i don't think..." or "would like more..." none of this is taking the town anywhere, and none of it can be pinned on you.

Posting now. More is coming immediately following.

*Solid rolls random tiny post*
No info.
small questions.
none of these questions are leading the town towards a likely lynch.
This is more of the same: throwaway posts intending to appear active and inquisitive. Have you noticed that Solid isn't following these questions up with dialogue as people answer? it's as if he has no intention of these posts leading him anywhere...hmm.



This is one of Solid's best posts of the game. But when you look at it, it is all "middling." the "okay good haha" feels artificial, like he's trying to feel friendly.

he's responding to J again. only J and raz seem to be able to get him to post anything because they are both asking him specific questions.

+1 to both of them.

Each sentence in that paragraph is a weak collection of words that doesn't add up to anything. He even ends with a "meh things have changed...don't hold me accountable to this weak stance."

It's as if he's afraid of what he's saying. The reason I think solid is so hesitant to put himself out there is because he is lying when he gives reads on people and he's having to make them up as he goes along.



more brown-nosing to J

saying nothing in these two statements. Lots of qualifiers like "i don't know...."

More qualifiers on everything: "I agree but at the same time...", "i suppose", "yeah overall i can agree"...

scum tell. I always look for people saying "fair enough" or "true enough" as a scum slip. it's a subtle way to agree and get away with changing your position on something.

This is still subjective, your reads are different from Circus'.

I disagree here, I think John/Frio have come off as opportunistic, but I do agree that he's going pretty hard for something of that nature.

Then the rest is fine, and I can agree that Circus' response to the pressure by you and Raz hasn't been the best.

But yeah overall I just don't think it's that strong. It seems like a lot of it stems from disagreeing on John and Frio, and some subjective stuff that basically amounts to disagreements in reads. After rereading though I'm kind of split on the case, the general gist of it I disagree with but there's parts that I do agree with that make me a bit more uneasy about Circus, such as some of his assumptions and refutations of your case. I still think he's town though, at this point.

more qualifiers loading up this rare paragraph:
"but yeah overall..."
"I just dont think..."
"It seems like..."
"i'm kind of split on the case"
" the general gist i disagree with but there's parts that i do agree with"
"a bit more uneasy"
"at this point."

wow this whole paragraph is literally FULL of qualifiers and half stances in both directions.


PR fishing. Scummy!



qualifiers:
"in my opinion"
"could have been scummy but..."
"leaning town for now ,but i want to see..."



weak.

He went from "leaning town" to "i'll be watching him".

This is the first time he said he'd be watching him. He added that here so he wouldn't have to strongly disagree with someone, or to back off slightly from his town read in case he needed to later.



Irony



IRONY



irony



Doesn't like raziek now. Raz is one of the only ones pulling content out Solid, and now solid doesn't like him for his interactions with OS, which most of us were ok with. I wonder if Raz was doing anything threatening to Solid's playstyle of "reveal nothing, be passive."...



Another example of post padding. I skipped a few more. do a search if you want to see the ones I skipped.



Wow hilarious. I added the red coloring to highlight things that made me chuckle.



Allow me to paraphrase:

" +1 to my vote count ya'll. see you tomorrow!"

At this point, Solid's true post count is probably down to 34-36. 2 more post pads followed this one that night.

ZOIKS. look at this back peddling. He got pressure for his stance on kantrip, which looked like a pretty hard stance in the above post...suddenly, he's already planning on removing that vote?

Solid, you are scum.



qualifiers:

"cloudy"
"i think his case is decent at best"
"yeah i could see..."
"could be scum possibly..."
"but for now he's ok...."
"actually now that i reread.."
"I don't know..."
"i'll get back to you..."

unvote
vote: Solid

I skipped his last 4-5 posts because I have to head out for the fights now.
Spent half my afternoon on this research, so anyone who ignores it is a communist.

Solid has played the epitome of "cautious scum". After this game, I will bookmark this case against him so I can teach all the little children in mafia school about how to catch cautious scum on day 1.

You say this every time we play together. You're wrong about 60% of the time. You're like my new xsyven.

I'd be a fool to try to lynch someone no one wants to lynch. What would it accomplish to go down pushing for the lynch I liked best earlier when there is more work to do and no one seems interested in that direction. Have you changed votes today? Have you called anyone scummy before voting me?
You're calling the normal flow of a Day a bad thing.

I've had this read on him for a while, but I hadn't done most of the research on it until after I posted that.
Also, I was asked specifically by J to make a case on someone, and pushing for RR would have been asinine. What would you suggest, honestly? Make another case against someone I think is playing very scummy and listen to you ***** about it, or ignore what J said 'at my own peril' and not make the case I wanted to make? Answer this question.
In following J's suggestion to go ahead and make the case I've wanted to make, I'm stuck listening to you calling it scummy for me to even make a case. Am I supposed to play defense only? Is that pro-town behavior?

Consider this: If Raziek or J or Nabe had made my exact post, how would you have felt about it? Pretend one of them did, don't just answer automatically, because I'm sure you're just telling yourself what you'd want to say, rather than honestly considering it. My case isn't weak at all. You're just tunnel-visioned on me right now and ignoring a rather good case.

But keep it up. Tunnel vision wins games...(for scum).

I bet circus is scum with solid.


This is all quite bad. You're blatantly defending solid before he even responds to my case. The thing is, you're not contradicting ANYTHING I'm saying with examples of posts, or anything remotely concrete. You're just saying "I feel he's been contributing and mostly honest."
Well, NEAT. I don't care what you FEEL. Do some research and prove it. Make a post as well researched as mine, with examples for why you feel that way.

If you want to flat out defend another player, at least come back with SOMETHING, rather than "nuh uh, cause i disagree. so you're wrong." Because responsing with "i feel differently, so you're scum" is just weak as hell and won't fly...

well, in this game it might because people are getting away with whatever they want. OS is right that scum is going to win this game. We're getting flat out outplayed, and there's a quicktopic full of laughs someplace out there.

Here's the post in question. Your other one referenced wasn't my post, so I'm not sure what you meant to type instead.

I still feel this way for the most part. Your #1014 and especially #1016 in particular were pretty weak. In particular, you gave me a hard time about the inactivity issue, chastising me for not pushing other people who are more inactive. You missed the point of my whole argument against Solid. He is trying to appear active without posting any real content or opinions that can be pinned to him later. As opposed to the more inactive players (john and frio) who are not posting much at all. I don't like either of them at all in this game because of their lack of involvement. but Solid specifically stands out to me as trying to appear helpful while offering nothing. that's the basis of my case.

I'd be hard pressed to make a good case against either john or frio, you know what I mean? They haven't given me anything to make a case out of. If they are still playing this way on Day 2, then they'll be among the first people I'll pressure. OS and dabuz are in a similar place, and need to get involved. Whichever of those 4 are town need to realize that they are helping scum by being so passive and inactive.

@mod: prod time on any of those yet?

There's no point delaying my vote, since I'm ok with either Solid or Circus at this point.


unvote
vote: Circus

I mentioned Raz, j, and nabe because they are the other active players.

What pro-town result could have happened if I had left my vote on Solid instead of switching it to you? The wagon at this point is either on me or you, right? do you see people swinging their votes from me to Solid, or from me to YOU? If I stuck to a Solid lynch when the rest of the town was swinging to another good lynch, I'd be promoting a no-lynch, which YOU know of all people is distinctly bad for us. I'm not going to do something anti-town just to look like I'm sticking to my guns.

This is consistent with my meta too.

Day 3 of 30 rock. I built a huge case on Marc. At the end of that case, my vote went to Scamp. Why? Because I thought it was the most pro-town lynch of the day. I was wrong in that case, but the point remains that I will make my vote for the lynch that will most likely be pro-town, not just vote whoever I think is playing the scummiest. This game is deeper than everyone just throwing their votes at their own #1 target and hoping we reach a majority.

call it opportunistic all you want if you want to try to paint me bad. But you're chastising a pro-town move just to save your own hide.

I don't blame you. If I were in your shoes, I'd be attacking me too, since that'd be my only hope of survival.

I wanted to highlight this post as some good thinking. THIS is exactly how I make my decisions.

+1 kantrip.

Votecount 8 - [8/15] - Deadline 11th October at 6PM GMT

Raziek [0]
T-Block [0]
Overswarm [0]
Xastrn [6] - dabuz, Nabe, Werekill, John2k4, Solid, Circus
Solid [1] - OS
Panta [0]
Red Ryu [0]
dabuz [1] - MOD
Nabe [0]
Circus [5] - Frio, J, Xastrn, T-Block, Raziek
Werekill [1] - RR
John2k4 [0]
Kantrip [1] - Panta
J [0]
Frio [1] - MOD

Not Voting [1] - Kantrip

Can someone clarify what time toDay ends in eastern standard?

also, for question for everyone: if the end of day is approaching, and no majority is seeming to get reached, who is willing to switch from the Circus wagon to me and who is willing to switch from my wagon to Circus?

who's unwilling to change and would rather no-lynch?

So given the choice between a no-lynch and lynching circus, you'd rather no lynch?

You know better than that. 30 rock is the perfect example. scamp should have been lynched day 1 and then we wouldn't have had to stick to him on day 2 and 3. We would have nailed marc on day 3 based on my case, and YOU had copped CK by then. Would have been a town win if we had lynched a townie on day 1. instead we no lynched and scum won.

I would almost rather hammer myself than no-lynch, although that is taking it a step too far, in my opinion. In 30 rock, there was a chance scamp was scum. 30-40% maybe. in my case in this game (since I'm the voter) i know there's a 0% chance of hitting scum by hammering myself.

None of you know that, of course, so I would expect someone on circus' wagon to flip to me with minutes to spare just to make sure we get a lynch and a flip. or vice versa. I hope you are all willing to do that should the need arise, and I absolutely mean in either direction.

But let's not get to that point. We can finish this day with a lynch one way or another.

I REALLY think werekill is scum, btw.

Who else wants my claim?
Who wants Circus' claim?

Who wants us both to claim?

I am Jim, town Hobo.
I am a human visitor to clock town.
I have an ability called Street Smarts. I get to "hang around: " a player to get information on them. It sounds from what x1 sent me that he can basically send me whatever the hell he wants to about the person, and it's my job to interpret it and decide if it's useful.

I might receive race, ability, name, or worthless flavor.

@Werekill, if circus get's lynched and flips scum, who would you recommend I "hang around" tonight?

random thought unrelated to this, but if we are looking at a no lynch, I propose we just lynch OS and me and circus can duke it out tomorrow. OS has been dead weight and either needs to play or die. If we did that, I volunteer to pick up his spreadsheet idea, and recreate the data from the beginning of the game, so we don't lose what he started.

@mod: If I did so, would I be allowed to post it publicly someplace, so someone else could take it and keep it going in case I die at any point?

Yeah sadly, it's not a very well put together role, if you ask me.

I assume we have a real alignment cop. This makes me supplemental to them.

I assume also that x1 plans to use this role to be able to influence the game a little bit. If town is ahead, then he can give me relatively useless info. If town is behind, he can give me good info to help. I don't like the role, and I don't like the implications, but it is what it is.

It's testable. That's a good thing. I can prove it by investigating whoever I'm told, and giving back information that you can confirm or deny.

Werekill, i'll even give you first dibs on picking who I investigate. I'll let you pick the next person who directs my ability, should I live that long. And so on.

very true. I'm being challenged on the role, so I'm willing to prove the role.

i also volunteer to be copped by our alignment cop. That should clear up a LOT tomorrow.

I bet there's more weak investigative roles out there too. Lot's of flavor could get bounced around that could compile to be helpful.

I forget which game it was (someone remind if this rings a bell) when we had one person getting the results from another person's investigations, but it was all adding up to be good information. was that Oddworld? I can't remember now. I think edressespieces was the one getting all the results.

it WAS oddworld, i'm pretty sure.

Circus, you up for lynching overscum? He seems more interested in a no-lynch than anything at this point. The more he tells us "**** off I don't want to contribute" the less he deserves to live. how much you wanna bet he scrambles suddenly if the wagon flips to him 24 hours before the deadline?

I'm not pushing for an OS lynch. I'm suggesting that me and circus can be sorted out more easily tomorrow when I confirm my role. his role is super useless, but it fits with mine well. i was wondering why I had this weirdo role that might mean "useless trivia cop" or "super imba cop" until OS claimed race cop, and now circus is claiming this race count census thing. I'm realizing that perhaps the whole game is based around all these flavor cops. It's even possible that we have no alignment cop at all, if we have 4 flavor cops.

raz, i can understand your flip to me.

circus, weren't you scum in the game where you got last minute lynched?

Votecount 8 - [8/15] - Deadline 11th October at 6PM GMT

Raziek [0]
T-Block [0]
Overswarm [0]
Xastrn [7] - dabuz, Nabe, Werekill, John2k4, Solid, Circus, Raziek
Solid [1] - OS
Panta [0]
Red Ryu [0]
dabuz [1] - MOD
Nabe [0]
Circus [3] - Frio, Xastrn, T-Block
Werekill [1] - RR
John2k4 [0]
Kantrip [1] - Panta
J [0]
Frio [1] - MOD

Not Voting [2] - J, Kantrip

Day 1 Ends!

Raziek [0]
T-Block [0]
Overswarm [0]
Xastrn [8] - dabuz, Nabe, Werekill, John2k4, Solid, Circus, Raziek, J
Solid [1] - OS
Panta [0]
Red Ryu [0]
dabuz [1] - MOD
Nabe [0]
Circus [3] - Frio, Xastrn, T-Block
Werekill [1] - RR
John2k4 [0]
Kantrip [1] - Panta
J [0]
Frio [1] - MOD

Not Voting [1] - Kantrip

Twilight 1 Begins! Xastrn has been lynched and will flip tomorrow

I hope my flip is useful.

Go town.

Same as always.

Twilight 1 Ends!

Raziek [0]
T-Block [0]
Overswarm [0]
Xastrn [8] - dabuz, Nabe, Werekill, John2k4, Solid, Circus, Raziek, J
Solid [1] - OS
Panta [0]
Red Ryu [0]
dabuz [1] - MOD
Nabe [0]
Circus [3] - Frio, Xastrn, T-Block
Werekill [1] - RR
John2k4 [0]
Kantrip [1] - Panta
J [0]
Frio [1] - MOD

Not Voting [1] - Kantrip

Frio receives his 2nd Prod

Xastrn (Jim, Mafia Hobo) Has been lynched!

Night 1 Begins! Send in all actions by 1PM on 13th October (GMT)!

[/collapse]