-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
(MAIN THREAD POSTED!) socal arcadian tournament
- Thread starter Kira-
- Start date
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
youre hardly a mother****er
joeplicate
Smash Master
as in, we have smashfests for fun for its own sake.
they're not the same thing; I really don't see how I'm not "following your logic" here, it looks like there's no logic to follow. so I'm gonna go ahead and give you the big middle finger on this one.
For the icicle mountain example, I was trying to say that competitive gaming isn't about "maximizing the amount of fun" you can have. Realistically, it's about winning and improvement, putting in hard work and achieving your goals. And for the people who are willing to put the time into it, these things are more "fun" (ultimately, more rewarding) than d!cking around with a party game. Saying "green shells and icicle mountain isn't fun wtf" is besides the point, because if it was just about fun there wouldn't be winners and losers.
The thrill of competitive gaming doesn't come from the prospect of winning money--you can still get that feeling from beating someone who ***** you last time. If I went to genesis and beat lucky, even though we BOTH would have realistically no shot of winning, I'd still be ecstatic! You could argue that nobody except mango has a shot of winning a tournament in socal, but that doesn't mean that "nothing is on the line." Beating someone who's better than you, or someone you lost to last time, is important because it shows your own improvement; you don't always have to compete to be #1 in your state, or even best on your block, you can still have close, meaningful sets with someone for 3rd or 4th or even 13th place.
Driving back from the chatsworth tournament with Brendan the other day, he was really excited that he was beating wha? and nasty nate in seriouslies, because he had previously lost to both of those players. Wha and Leon tied for last, and Nasty Nate got 13th. But there was still enough room for him to be prideful of his achievements, even among the worst people of the tournament. This is what really counts in competition--playing for yourself, playing for your own improvement, playing because you love the game.
Giving everybody the "chance to win" when it really doesn't exist only fosters a results-oriented attitude. People will go to this because they think they have a shot at money, not because they have the desire to improve and the right mindset towards competition. When marthpwnzer loses to smoke2jointz in losers semifinals (or whatever), you can bet he's gonna john about it and get angry. You have to accept the fact that people will beat you, and you have to learn from it, and you have to start liking it before you can get any better. Anything else is just unrealistic.
pockyD
Smash Legend
This is a stupid thing to get in a wall of text war for whatever reason on, so just read the last thing i say in this post; everything else is just repeating it anyway
you don't think winning and losing contributes towards fun? you've never gotten some stupid pleasure out of something like winning a bet about the next bus to show up at the bus stop? even if you haven't, that merely proves that fun is in the eye of the beholder, and it's ridiculous for you to denounce something that others find fun simply because you don't agree
There is no "right" mindset towards competition. There may or may not be a "right" mindset in playing to improve, but playing for such a goal is only one among many reasons to play. You're taking your mindset and trying to generalize it to the entire smash population, and this faulty assumption is what's causing you to look at this whole thing in the wrong way.
guess we can't have bowling or movies then, since we already have smashfests
thinking there's no logic is the exact same thing as not following the logic
who are you to say what people want to get out of competitive gaming? and even more so, how can you possibly say what things are "more "fun""?
you don't think winning and losing contributes towards fun? you've never gotten some stupid pleasure out of something like winning a bet about the next bus to show up at the bus stop? even if you haven't, that merely proves that fun is in the eye of the beholder, and it's ridiculous for you to denounce something that others find fun simply because you don't agree
yes, and you can have close, meaningful games if you just did round robin money matches instead. i don't see how it follows that since you can have fun in a regular tournament, having a different format is suddenly not fun
don't drop "you"s on me; everyone plays the game for different reasons. good for brendan that he can take pride in smaller achievements; many who have become a big part of the community think the same way, including both you and i. however, the fact that 20 people play for the same reason doesn't suggest that 20 other people are doing it wrong
I'm just going to address the bolded thing, because that's the crux of your "argument"
There is no "right" mindset towards competition. There may or may not be a "right" mindset in playing to improve, but playing for such a goal is only one among many reasons to play. You're taking your mindset and trying to generalize it to the entire smash population, and this faulty assumption is what's causing you to look at this whole thing in the wrong way.
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
the sirlin is stong in this one
on another note
new melty blood got leaked:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HHT1B6VX
PsychoMidget
Smash Lord
this argument in general is strong
dave don't let ****in unranked spartans take advantage here
I see one problem, and that's people agreeing on who is arcadian and who isn't.
Cameron, P, DSF, etc.
Cameron, P, DSF, etc.
SuperRad
Smash Master
Cam and P aren't
DSF definitely isn't
DSF definitely isn't
embracethe12
Smash Lord
i still think everyone but ranked players go
it's like going to a regular tournament and cutting off the top 4
i dun get what the fuss is about
the kind of people who would only join if arcadian tounaments happened were never going to get serious about melee anyways so **** em
it's like going to a regular tournament and cutting off the top 4
i dun get what the fuss is about
the kind of people who would only join if arcadian tounaments happened were never going to get serious about melee anyways so **** em
joeplicate
Smash Master
there might not be a "right" mindset towards competition, but what I'm talking about is the way to make a dedicated community full of solid players. That's MY ultimate goal, at least, because I think competition is about improvement and dedication. That's my key for defining the "right" and "wrong" attitudes, and considering that the tournament is trying to strengthen the community, that's what I'm talking about.
"You" is just because I'm grammatically lazy, of course you know that. I could go back and replace every instance with "one." Also, I'm not really arguing, because I feel that logical nitpicking and walls of text would just clutter the thread and intimidate everybody.
as far as smashfests vs tournaments, that's silly **** because we both know what the other meant, and it's the exact same thing.
You're assuming that I have a personal stake in all this, when really I mean that most people in competitive gaming share this attitude. I'm not implying that my way of looking at things is the best, maybe I should have prefaced it with a million "can be"s or "in most cases." I acknowledge that not everybody shares this mindset, although it would be ideal for a stable community IMO, but that running arcadian-only tournaments is detrimental to the health of the community.
Since it seems like this has become argument for argument's sake, I'll stop.
other ideas for the tournament:
having pro pools would be pimp as hell
"You" is just because I'm grammatically lazy, of course you know that. I could go back and replace every instance with "one." Also, I'm not really arguing, because I feel that logical nitpicking and walls of text would just clutter the thread and intimidate everybody.
as far as smashfests vs tournaments, that's silly **** because we both know what the other meant, and it's the exact same thing.
You're assuming that I have a personal stake in all this, when really I mean that most people in competitive gaming share this attitude. I'm not implying that my way of looking at things is the best, maybe I should have prefaced it with a million "can be"s or "in most cases." I acknowledge that not everybody shares this mindset, although it would be ideal for a stable community IMO, but that running arcadian-only tournaments is detrimental to the health of the community.
Since it seems like this has become argument for argument's sake, I'll stop.
other ideas for the tournament:
having pro pools would be pimp as hell
pockyD
Smash Legend
I was just making the point that when you drop "you", you are making an assumption that your audience thinks like you, which i felt was the overall fallacy behind your perspective (i even agreed in the next sentence or two that i personally do in fact largely think the same way as you do). I don't usually grammar police in real arguments
i'll agree that running arcadian-only tournaments in the stead of real tournaments is bad for the community, but as a one-shot thing, why not? Especially when it's not replacing an existing event, but just appearing as a new event itself? (afaik this isn't replacing a normal socal tournament, but i don't know the scene that well so i could be wrong)
eating a plate of cheese fries is bad for you, but you gotta do it once in a while because it's SOOOOOO GOOOOOOD
As far as non-ranked players go, the rules have not been changed. They will be the same stated earlier. Ranked players are still encouraged to come and play, but they will not be allowed to enter either event.
Everyone tell your friends! Get the noobs to come lol
Everyone tell your friends! Get the noobs to come lol
Lovage
Smash Hero
i'm not posting this in the main thread, but i just wanna say
this is a ****ing stupid idea with stupid rules
this is a ****ing stupid idea with stupid rules
joeplicate
Smash Master
actually, what if ranked players enter with secondaries?
like lovage couldn't go fox/falco, I would play marth or falcon or something
or even my luigi or sheik
****, I just wanna enter the tournament
but would that potentially level the playing field enough?
I'd even be down to pick one character and not be allowed to switch
like lovage couldn't go fox/falco, I would play marth or falcon or something
or even my luigi or sheik
****, I just wanna enter the tournament
but would that potentially level the playing field enough?
I'd even be down to pick one character and not be allowed to switch
Atlus8
Smash Master
Give it up Joe! If you wanna enter a tourny, host your own!
joeplicate
Smash Master
shut up miguel! you're only allowed to enter because you've been slacking off! it's like being paid allowance for not doing your chores! get that s#!+ outta here!!
Atlus8
Smash Master
N!gg@, I'm not even entering! Hell, I'm not sure if I'm even going! If I go, I wouldn't mind playing random after random!
haha entering with secondaries sounds legit.
Noble-
Smash Ace
New ideas are always bound to receive criticism.
Thumbs up to Dave for at least giving "Arcadians" a chance.
Thumbs up to Dave for at least giving "Arcadians" a chance.
joeplicate
Smash Master
especially if they're LAME ideas
SuperRad
Smash Master
oh hi
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
noobs are still gonna get tapped by mid tier
mid tier is getting easy money
high tier can't attend
the only question is how much do noobs learn from playing noobs
(not much. see: everyone sucks **** until they start going to tourneys. a bad player is not going to punish you for everything you do wrong)
even though todays noobs
are infinitely better than, say, 2007's
mid tier is getting easy money
high tier can't attend
the only question is how much do noobs learn from playing noobs
(not much. see: everyone sucks **** until they start going to tourneys. a bad player is not going to punish you for everything you do wrong)
even though todays noobs
myself
joeplicate
Smash Master
look brian I can do it too!especially if they're LAME ideas
SuperRad
Smash Master
My point is
you (and kouryuu i guess) are alone in being opposed to this happening.
you (and kouryuu i guess) are alone in being opposed to this happening.
I think it's a pretty dumb idea now that I read the opposing side's argument
joeplicate
Smash Master
and connor, and oscar, and more....
let's play soon
The Greater Leon
Smash Hero
you need to put it on a hacked playstation or have a godly computer (like crysis on max settings)
i have neither
i have neither
I didn't know you weren't a fan of "free money." I would expect you to be able to win the tournament, but apparently this isn't worth your time?
We have tournaments every single weekend, sometimes twice a week. The problem with this is that people decide to skip one and attend a more convenient tournament for them. This results in a lower average attendance for all tournaments. Missing one weekend is not going to hurt anybody.
Notice how all the people opposed to the idea are ranked? (minus Kouryuu). Try to understand that not everyone has the same mindset as you do; if they did they would all be much closer to ranked material. The ranked players largely don't understand because they do well, but if they went 0-2 every other tournament their opinion would change. Connor use your head, the others are entitled to their own opinions (and they have really good points) but since you're a kid i gotta tell you to think for yourself.
**** i m tired
joeplicate
Smash Master
On the other side of things, have you seen a ranked player (besides yourself) who thinks this is a GOOD idea?
guess who are some of the strongest supporters? macd and neighborhood p, top-ranked arcadians
put me in a place where I'll go 0-2 every tournament, and I'll gladly improve
besides, everybody starts somewhere, pretty sure a lot of ranked players started out with a couple 0-2s
guess who are some of the strongest supporters? macd and neighborhood p, top-ranked arcadians
put me in a place where I'll go 0-2 every tournament, and I'll gladly improve
besides, everybody starts somewhere, pretty sure a lot of ranked players started out with a couple 0-2s