Magic: The Gathering and Commander (EDH)

[Lythium]

Finally getting around to fixing up my Mimeoplasm deck. Hee hee. :3c

 

[Faithkeeper]

The reason I'm testing for Innistrad now is that I want to see what holes exist in the metagame, and what the typical angles of attack are, what decks need, etc... That way I can evaluate a card and know whether it''s price will go up or down before it does. For example, UW control is a good deck, but it needs a second high-level counterspell. Green ramp needs something that can make 2 mana, so if Khalni Heart Expedition was reprinted, I'd scoop them up. There's no good combos right now (post Zendikar,) so if any combo exists, it would have to be really difficult and/or unimpressive before people don't buy it and build decks with it. The meta post innistrad will likely not be gunning for combo. Tempered Steel is far better than anything red, but it's fairly tight and it has enough tools despite being mono-colored, so I don't think aggro cards will make too big a stir. Creeping Corrosion is still bad. Etc...

If I had money right now, I'd buy:
Karn
Precursor Golem
Frost Titan
Vengeful Pharoah (useful in older formats, as a totally free effect)
Timely Reinforcements
Necrotic Ooze (dunno why everyone seems to have missed this one)

Would you mind explaining why you would expect these cards to increase in value? I haven't tested anything post rotation and am interested in your reasoning behind your decisions.

 

[1048576]

Well, Vengeful Pharoah is free both card and mana-wise, and free effects tend to find a home in older formats.

Timely Reinforcements beats all aggro decks by itself. A lot of people think the second and third copies are useless after the first one, but aggro decks have no plan B. Somehow they're going to have to steamroll your guys and start chipping at your life again with their guys. Then you play a second one. Seriously it feels like a 3-1 against them. I expect it to be a 4-of in every control or combo sideboard that even splashes white. Because after that you can ignore aggro completely, so you have 11 slots freed up. Heck I've been maining them in my control decks and I'm rarely disappoint.

Necrotic Ooze - if Innstrad is graveyard themed, this guy is going to have a home in some deck. For one, it'll be easy to bring him from grave to hand, so you don't need a tutor if you're milling a lot. For two, they only need to print one Gigantomancer-like card for the combo to go off, but if you have a toolbox of semi-impressive cards that also aren't useless on their own, that would be good too. As a $0.15 rare, it's hard to see it going down at any rate.

Frost Titan: card has been testing better than Consecrated Sphinx in my UW control, because he stops an extra attacker, and you tend to have the inevitability even without the draw 2. UW control is a very good deck, but it's short of another good blue card right now. If the game goes to control mirrors, then Frost Titan will see no play again, but it's too early to tell, and seeing how bad blue is, I'd bet against it.

Red decks are using Grim Lavamancer for point burn, and Lighting Bolt is rotating out, so they don't have any real way to kill all 3 Golems right now. Black will prolly be pressured to run GfTT to kill Grave Titan and whatever Innistrad brings. Basically there's no way to cheaply kill all 3 Golems right now save Dismember, and they don't always have that Dismember. Aside from the theorycrafting, he's been testing real well, and every deck I've built (vat, ramp, mono-white control) that found room for a couple has been overperforming.

Karn: Because Timely Reinforcements has been printed, and because there's few good one drops right now (Lavamancer, Birds, and Ponder,) I expect the game to slow down. In addition, there's no other game ending 7 drop in the meta right now. Ramp doesn't have Eldrazi or Avenger of Zendikar to play, so right now this is their best curve-topper. I also expect control decks to finally have enough time to support a singleton game-ender, and Karn is it. White is better than Black right now, but UW control doesn't have Grave Titan, so it needs more than Gideon to finish.

 

[1048576]

Just did my first draft in a while. Got 3 Pacifism, Fireball, and 2 Overrun. Awkward, but, 20 lands, 13 creatures including a Jade Mage, and a warstorm surge. Let's go. Game 1 I drew no creatures and got owned by a RU Aggro. Game 2 I got Overrun + Jade Mage off. Time ran out and first life change wins!? He draws, mulligans twice. Mountain, Shock. So ****ty to lose that way. I had nothing for 1st turn life. I had to bluff taste of blood (I side in 14 swamps, no mulligan) and hope he mulled himself to oblivion.

 

[Lore]

I missed a chance to draft today.

I'm spending a ton of time at a card shop tomorrow, though, so no worries.

 

[1048576]

Why do Magic players bash yu-gi-oh so much? It's worse than how Melee players view Brawl. Having played both games, I honestly think yu-gi-oh takes more skill, in that if you make a mistake, it will cost you the game much more often. Even if I'm wrong, it's close enough that there shouldn't be so many elitist jerks, so I'm wondering why there are.

 

[Lore]

Why do Magic players bash yu-gi-oh so much? It's worse than how Melee players view Brawl. Having played both games, I honestly think yu-gi-oh takes more skill, in that if you make a mistake, it will cost you the game much more often. Even if I'm wrong, it's close enough that there shouldn't be so many elitist jerks, so I'm wondering why there are.

Here are my problems with Yugioh, which I actually played for a long time:

1. The rarity system. It's soooo hard to pul decent cards from packs, which makes a lot of staples absurdly expensive. They're getting better about this by reprinting Mirror Force and the like in theme decks, but still.

2. Most sets, other than rares, are full of useless junk. There's too much pure crap in the game, and it makes it absurdly difficult to build anything decent out of packs. At least with mtg you can still do SOMETHING with most cards, excluding some generic, crappy vanilla beaters.

3. There's no cost to a card, which leads to an absurdly long ban/restricted list. Raigeki and the like are simply too powerful for the cost to play them (free), which warps the card-making process to the point that if cards are slightly too good, they're instantly banned or restricted. At least magic has mana costs that balance the game.

4. From what I've seen, most big yugioh tournaments have only one, MAYBE two, decks in finals with barely any variation between them. It's not much of an exciting meta.

Anyway, that's why I don't like the game. It's fun with friends, but I can't justify spending a ton of money on it.

 

[1048576]

When did you stop playing? When I stopped there was a pretty healthy meta (meaning many different decks), and I gather there has been since. Personally, I like when there's one best deck and the true deckbuilders shine by tweaking for the mirror and the local meta, but I got banned from an m:tg forum for voicing that opinion and I don't want to reopen that can of worms.

Magic has a ton of chaff too. I think in almost every tcg there's only like 150 cards you really have to look out for on a competitive level.

I don't want to actually count it up, but the magic and yugioh banlists are similar size, I think. Yugioh has OP cards, magic has degenerate combos. Although tbh yugioh has gotten so absurd that Raigeki could prolly be unbanned without causing too much of a stir. Konami is not as on the ball as Wizards.

Anyway all you're reasons, if they were true (and they may well be) are okay as far as I'm concerned. It's the crowd that's like yugioh takes no skill, blah blah blah, that really gets to me. I remember when chaos return was a major player, so I decided to run a trap lineup of 3 Royal Decree and 1 Call of the Haunted. Everyone at my local was ridiculing me for not running Dekoichi, the Battlechanted Locomotive. It's that kind of subtlety which makes the skill in yugioh so deceptively high.

 

[D20]

I started to play the game back in 4th and 5th grade... when 5th Edition was released. I played through the Tempest and Urza blocks before "quitting". Anyhow, a friend of mine recently got me back into Magic by taking me to a few pre-release tournaments and drafts over the last year. At the moment, I'm a strictly limited player that will hopefully build a standard deck when the new rotation begins. I won the last sealed event I went to with the help of a few bombs (Rune-Scarred Demon/Sorin's Vengeance) and a Skywinder Drake/Phantasmal Dragon air combo. I'm drafting M12 tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes.

 

[UlyssesTheTrojan]

I'm playing in this Standard event and I would appreciate some deck critiques for this blue white build.

3x Condemn (Quick way to stop aggro creatures)
2x Jace Beleren (Card draw)
2x Mana Leak (Obv., should i run 4?)
3x Precursor Golem (Efficient body + goes with golem theme)
4x Solemn Simulacrum (Value)
4x Blade Splicer (Efficiency and 2 bodies)
3x Apostle's Blessing (Protect my golems against a kill spell directed at precursor)
2x Venser, the Sojourner (bouncing splicers, solemn, titans and giving unblockability)
2x Oblivion Ring (Catch all removal)
3x Preordain (Only 3 because i want to try one ponder)
1x Ponder (NOT STRICTLY WORSE THAN PREORDAIN)
1x Sun Titan (Brings back Jace, O Ring, Splicer)
1x Frost Titan (Locks down red source of twin)
1x Baneslayer Angle (I just like Baneslayer)
3x Porcelain Legionnaire (Helps against aggro)
1x Sejiri Refuge (Only duel i have i need to pick up colonnades etc)
10x Island
13x Plains

SB
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence (Shuts off myr, elves etc)
2x Timely Reinforcements (So good)
2x Revoke Existence (Tempered Steel)
2x Celestial Purge (Obv.)
2x Dispel (More protection against removal)
4x Dismember (SplinterTwin)
2x Stoic Rebuttal (Valakut)

I know it probably isn't that good against puresteel i just hope not to see to much of him.

 

[Faithkeeper]

I guess I'm interested in what you are going for. What's your game plan? How would you expect a game to play out? I haven't tested it, but I don't really like precursor golem in a golem theme. It makes it too easy to kill even more than the three, you wont always have the apostles blessing or the open mana. But if you really like it, keep it, but I would run stave off over apostle's blessing. You don't have any artifacts that aren't creatures you need to protect and stave off can disrupt splinter twin combo. (play stave off and give deceiver exarch protection from red.) not to mention stave off is only 1cmc. If you are worried about red at your local meta, obv. kor firewalker is nuts. day of judgement might be worth consideration. Idk how much you've tested it, but with no 1cmc creatures, 3 2cmc creatures, and only 4 3cmc creatures, you might find yourself getting overwhelmed pretty quickly if your meta has much aggro. I'm not really sure what to suggest. Squadron Hawks are all the rage and I like wall of omens. But really I've never plaeyed a deck like this so I'm just speculating. Just things to think about.

edit:
How did you do?

 

[Faithkeeper]

Just picked up the counterpunch deck. I was going to play mimoplasm, but he's kind of cheesy so... anyway, I'm looking forward to the shenanigans EDH shall hold for me.

I've been working on a mono blue archetect deck that also runs kuldotha forgemaster and a copy of blightsteel. It actually beats up mono red nicely, but that's all I've got to test it against very often. My biggest problem is a lot of people seem to have act of aggression in the sideboard for splinter twin (at least in my meta) so if they ever grabbed my blightsteel I might have to cry. which is why I almost don't want to run him until post-rotation. And spine of ish sah + phrexia's core actually won me a match. after all of the immediate threats were gone I started taking out the poor chap's lands... With me having lodestone golem in play- it was nasty, he was pretty mana screwed anyway.

 

[1048576]

If you have Phyrexia's Core, then can't you just tap that when they try to steal your blightsteel?

Can someone tell me why this deck (post rotation) is failing so hard, and can it be fixed? I had high hopes for it. It seems to fit a lot of the good cards together, but every time I test, I have mana/curve issues, or not enough artifacts, or w/e it's always something.

Mana sources: 31 (I screw more often than flood, believe it or not)
4. Inkmoth Nexus
4. Darkslick Shores
4. Drowned Catacomb
2. Swamp
8. Island
1. Buried Ruin
4. Sphere of the Suns
2. Mox Opal
2. Leaden Myr (T3 Tezz is the best thing the deck can do, and Opal can't make that happen)

Wincon: 10
4. Precursor Golem
3. Grave Titan
2. Sword of Feast and Famine
1. Sword of War and Peace

Disruption: 11
4. Spellskite
4. Tumble Magnet
3. Vedalken Certarch

Consistency: 8
4. Ponder
4. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

 

[UncleSam]

If you're worrying about both artifacts and consistency with your mana curve, try running some living weapons.

 

[Faithkeeper]

true. I guess I just will have to leave "counterspell" mana open. to either actually use a counterspell or use phyrexia's core as a bail out.

About what turn do you start having the mana problems? Also, I like vault skirge. I don't know exactly where your problems are, but it can easily use 1-2 of your unused mana and is an artifact. Not to mention it is pretty nasty with a sword.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

A friend of mine recently got me into this. I really enjoy it, it puts strategy to a new level!

Anyway, I currently have a few decks (not physically of course, lackey swag) that are all likely terrible (that I could post but would be embarrassed to do as such)

Black cards are my favorite.

 

[Faithkeeper]

A friend of mine recently got me into this. I really enjoy it, it puts strategy to a new level!

Anyway, I currently have a few decks (not physically of course, lackey swag) that are all likely terrible (that I could post but would be embarrassed to do as such)

Black cards are my favorite.

Well if you just started and are playing with friends, it's likely you are a casual player, and having some great deck isn't all that important. Most of the decks posted have been for people wanting to go into tourneys with them. That being said, If you want to post a list, we can still suggest changes to improve it. While some cards can be rather expensive, you can pick up one of the best cards in the standard format for a buck a piece (squadron hawk).

 

[UncleSam]

If only squadron hawk was black. You can probably pick up Rune-Scarred Demon and Geth, Lord of the Vault for cheap.

Spoiler

Click on the card name for a link. I know, my font style is annoying. I like it that way.

 

[Faithkeeper]

Went 3-2 at FNM (26 entrants) with this build:

Blightsteel Architect Made up the name on the spot.
Creatures:
3 Treasure Mage
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Grand Architect
2 Solem Simulacrum
4 Spined Thopter
1 Kraken Hatchling
3 Spellskite
1 Necropede
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Precursor Golem
1 Wurmcoil Engine

Artifacts:
2 Tumble Magenet
1 Mindslaver
2 Everflowing Chalice
1 Contagion Clasp

Other Spells:
4 Ponder
1 Mana Leak

Lands:
4 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Buried Ruin
17 Island

Sideboard:
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Kraken Hatchling
2 Sword of Ware and Peace
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Dismember
1 Flashfreeze
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Negate
2 Steel Sabotage
1 Contagion Clasp


Round 1: Vs Caw Blade Variant 2-0
Played some sort of Caw Blade Varient that ran Honor of the Pure, Mirran Crusader, and Angelic Destiny. Game 1 we were both pretty screwed, I ended HARD CASTING (with the help of GA) Blightsteel for the win next turn. Game 2 the deck did what it was supposed to, I swung with blightsteel for game on turn 5.

Round 2: Vs Valakut Variant 0-2
This version had that oracle and infernos, that seemed to be a little less than normal(Although I'll be expecting the Oracle if she's in another list in top 8 for big tourney). Game one I was kind of messed up, he got a primeval and a inferno titan and 4 valakuts. I mindslavered him, in response he used summoning trap, caught a primeval and hit me for 24. Game 2 I couldn't draw a bomb or Treasure mage, he tore me up.

Round 3: Vs Caw Blade 0-2
He netdecked something, I don't remember which version he sad he had. Game 1 I drew pretty alright but so did he, after an O-ring and 2 dismembers I ran out of gas and couldn't get stuff going before he won. Game 2 I couldn't draw any bombs or tutors for then, and he drew pretty well, and his feast and famine ate me.

Round 4: Vs. Mono Blue Mill 2-0
He ran vesneir with SoBaM, which I thought was clever, but otherwise I didn't like his deck. Game one I beat him down with a wurmcoil. Game 2 Turn 6 Blightsteel. I would have built his deck a lot differently, but he looked to young too have a job so maybe he couldn't afford good stuff. (he did run 2 Jaces he told me after though)

Round 5: Vs. RUG Pod 2-0
I never got to see if he ran twin or not. Game one I get a nuts hand, Turn 3 wurmcoil and other stuff ended the game turn 5. Game 2 took a little longer, I countered his turn 2 BP (which he played with 4 mana) with Steel Sabotage, then it was pretty much over because he didn't topdeck another. He copied my Wurmcoil with phantasmal image, but I tumbled it to death. I ammased a huge army and went to town.

Thoughts: First off, some of my deck is because I didn't have the cards I wanted, but I did a lot of trading to get some. I love forgemaster/blightsteel. By the time I get him out The opponent has usually wasted any topdeck O rings (it happened 3/4 games I got him out, the other time I guess he never drew an o-ring) and I didn't see any Act of Aggression, although I probably could have survived an attack. I really like spinethopter in my build. I did a lot of GA>spinethopter>spellskite turn 3 off of the 3 mana. Him being a good target for forgemaster was good too. Wurmcoil did work, I'm glad I traded for another by the end of the night. My thoughts on changes for the MB ( I know the sideboard is kind of weird, it's a work in progress)
-1 necropede, -1 kraken Hatchling, not sure what else. +1 Wurmcoil, +1 Precursor Golem. That might jack up the mana curve pretty hard, I'll have to work on stuff and see what goes. The only bad part (imo) about running blightsteel/forgemaster is that it takes up those 5 slots I might like for counterspells. (although I do side some in in some matchups) But getting out blightsteel is very rewarding and for me has won games almost immediately (one guy it took 2 swings. :D ). Tell me what you think so I can try to make this deck better.

 

[Lore]

I bought a vampire event deck last night! I also traded 2 Metamorphs, 1 Spellskite, and a spare Dismember that I had for 3 Kalastria Highborns and 2 Bloodghasts. Totally worth it, imo. ^_^

 

[D20]

The vampire deck is pretty good. My friend showed up to a FNM, bought the deck, and then proceeded to go 3-2 on the night. He lost to tier 1 versions of Blue/Black Control and Caw-Blade.

 

[Lore]

Yeah, it's a cool deck. I just need to save up money for the duals so that I can actually make it better by splashing red.

 

[Faithkeeper]

I bought a vampire event deck last night! I also traded 2 Metamorphs, 1 Spellskite, and a spare Dismember that I had for 3 Kalastria Highborns and 2 Bloodghasts. Totally worth it, imo. ^_^

Well if we consider starcity prices as reliable, you traded $25 for $19. But dismember, kalastra, and bloodghast have all recently dropped, so maybe it was even when you did it. Not to mention all the cards you got will rotate and none of the cards you traded away will. But if you are happy with your trade that's all that matters.

 

[UTDZac]

I just recently got back into magic. Invested a good deal on most cards in Standard, mostly because I love designing decks that aren't popular but have potential to win. Playing FNM weekly with a brand new deck each week is really enjoyable.

I did pick up 2 of the commander decks, but lack people to play with

 

[1048576]

Honestly faithkeeper I don't see anything wrong with your deck. It looks good for the theme. I do think Kuldotha is not well positioned right now and the mono-coloredness makes the sideboard kind of suspect, but what can you do?

2-0ed my draft. I was proud of when I switched colors and generally staying open. I could have played my Garruk's Horde, but I figured I already had the late game, so I subbed it out for Stampeding Rhino. I dabbled around in Mesa Enchantress + Trollhide for too long, and I should have started prioritizing Bears a pack sooner, but there's always room for improvement. Day + Overrun is also bad magic, but they're both bombs, so what are you gonna do?

This was the deck i ended with:
assault griffin
greater basilisk
overrunx2
stingerfling spider
giant spider
serra angel
day of judgment
throne of empires
stampeding rhinox2
skinshifter
pride guardian
divine favor
runeclaw bear x4
rampant growth
cudgel troll
arachnus web
naturalize
12 forest
6 plains

In one game I was stuck on 4 plains and 2 Forest. I drew both my Stampeding Rhinos and played them and started beating down. I topdecked a Forest for barely lethal Overrun the turn before I would have died to his flyers. I think 18 lands was correct, even with a curve ending at 5, because I really needed to hit 5 without missing a land drop.

 

[UTDZac]

 

[Faithkeeper]

Awesome alt art!

Thanks #s. I saw a list of Ali Aintrazi's archetect build that ran blightsteel, so I'm getting a few ideas from that. I wouldn't have thought swiftfoot boots woul be too great here, but in my early tests they are pretty darn handy.

 

[UTDZac]

Yo faithkepper. I took a grand architect toolbox deck with me to Game Day and went 4-0, somehow also didn't lose a game. It was amazing. Super fun to play and attracted a lot of spectators. Here's the list:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/grand-toolbox/

If you really want Blightsteel in there, drop Hellkite or the Spine or Karn.

 

[Lore]

Hahaha, that dismember is fantastic. :3

 

[Faithkeeper]

Yo faithkepper. I took a grand architect toolbox deck with me to Game Day and went 4-0, somehow also didn't lose a game. It was amazing. Super fun to play and attracted a lot of spectators. Here's the list:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/grand-toolbox/

If you really want Blightsteel in there, drop Hellkite or the Spine or Karn.

Could you run through a typical (even if fictitious) game for me? I don't understand how it works. You don't run much acceleration besides Architect and don't seem to have a backup plan if someone kills it. (and you run no counterspells and only 2 spellskite to protect it) So from where I've been coming from, idk how to play it effectively. Mind explaining? And I think Karn is really cool and have been looking for an excuse to play him. :D I do like ichor wellspring, makes a nice sacrifice for forgemaster.

 

[UTDZac]

Sorry faith I completely forgot to help you out. I gtg but hit me up with a pm tomorrow

 

[Lore]

My vamps are still so much fun! I just need money for duals.

 

[Octave]

I wasn't aware of this thread. I've currently got two decks constructed:

Legacy: S-Crap
EDH: Skullbriar, the Walking Grave

I'll post decklists later!

 

[Lore]

I just pulled a Sunpetal Grove and a foil Lord of the Unreal in the same pack, and I'm happy. :3

 

[Dastrn]

I played magic back in 4th edition, mirage, ice age era. I played up until maybe Tempest or so. I picked it back up for half of the mirrodin block but that's it.

Is it anything like it used to be?

 

[Lore]

I started with Alara, so honestly, I don't really know.

 

[Octave]

I started with Zendikar Pulled a Chandra Ablaze in a starter deck booster and then JTMS was in the third or fourth pack I ever opened.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Next set had doubles sided cards. I love werewolves atm.

 

[Faithkeeper]

I think it will be hard to make werewolves work.

 

[Lore]

I think it will be hard to make werewolves work.

There a 1G common instant that transforms all humans and stops all damage dealt for the rest of the turn by anything other than werewolves or wolves.

Play a ton of little wolf dudes, use the instant to transform, then blitz.