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Mafia Sleepover: The Finale [ Town Wins - Pokemon Sight seeing]
- Thread starter Rockin
- Start date
Initial suspicions: http://smashboards.com/threads/mafi...y-1-the-begining.360822/page-18#post-17082078
Proof Part 1: http://smashboards.com/threads/mafi...y-1-the-begining.360822/page-18#post-17082299
Part 2: J the Turtle:
NB: A hard scumread is infinitely more important than a hard townread. Hard townreads don't say a lot because they're easier to create and actually be legitimate about. Scum even have incentive to make allies in town and having hard townreads helps. Hard scumreads make enemies. They put you out in the spotlight and give you a target. They allow people to see who you're looking at, exposing your motives to others and allowing you to be read. This is important to note because J has yet to do this. This is why I continue to say he has yet to stick his neck out.
It's also important to note that he thinks 3/4 of the game is sidelining and contains scum. He's not wrong that that 3/4 of the game probably contains scum (damn wrong on the sidelining part), but that says ****ing nothing to me. Okay, so he has a pool of 4 players as town leans. He's not committing to a small list of players for reasons other than that he personally doesn't like them and that's it. He's not saying anything at all whatsoever that furthers everything in the thread, suggests he's progressing the reads he's making, or trying to hunt for scum. He's in his turtle shell hoping the game doesn't notice him.
That point is especially compounded when you consider his stance on me. He's not trying to read me. He's trying to lynch me because he doesn't like that I'm annoying.
Proof Part 1: http://smashboards.com/threads/mafi...y-1-the-begining.360822/page-18#post-17082299
Part 2: J the Turtle:
No hard scumreads to be found here, or at any other point of the game.
NB: A hard scumread is infinitely more important than a hard townread. Hard townreads don't say a lot because they're easier to create and actually be legitimate about. Scum even have incentive to make allies in town and having hard townreads helps. Hard scumreads make enemies. They put you out in the spotlight and give you a target. They allow people to see who you're looking at, exposing your motives to others and allowing you to be read. This is important to note because J has yet to do this. This is why I continue to say he has yet to stick his neck out.
Hell, even his Jexs/Levi read, two reads he's walking in here to try to shoot down is so half-assed and barely even committal. They're simply leans at this point in time, and yet he feels it necessary to walk in here and shoot down any pressure on them. Not only that, but despite the fact that he sees players attacking them. He's not even gonna walk in here and try to determine the scummy slots despite the fact that people are attacking his town-leans, because there's no way that every slot attacking two of his strongest leans is town. If there is, he knows far more than he should.
It's also important to note that he thinks 3/4 of the game is sidelining and contains scum. He's not wrong that that 3/4 of the game probably contains scum (damn wrong on the sidelining part), but that says ****ing nothing to me. Okay, so he has a pool of 4 players as town leans. He's not committing to a small list of players for reasons other than that he personally doesn't like them and that's it. He's not saying anything at all whatsoever that furthers everything in the thread, suggests he's progressing the reads he's making, or trying to hunt for scum. He's in his turtle shell hoping the game doesn't notice him.
That point is especially compounded when you consider his stance on me. He's not trying to read me. He's trying to lynch me because he doesn't like that I'm annoying.
Of course I don't like the answer of "I don't like how you're playing so I'm going to lynch you even if I think it's fiesty townLaundry playing bad".
levi said:
from an objective pov, levi's push on us made sense. the points were fair and very by the book. but as the push progressed, he became much more single tracked and almost made it as if NOTHING else can be a possibility. it now feels like, with his most recent post (as of this point), he is forced to change direction. the way that his play has panned out just doesn't seem like a townie. in the newbie, he gave himself breathing room and allowed his reads to develop. here he's too attached to what he thinks. a townie that's too into himself and his own reads? maybe. but with the familiarity he clearly has with the game, im more convinced it's a scummy that, while saying the right things, forgot to act like a townie at the wrong time.
murderbush's thought process makes sense. i don't care about the knowing laundry thing, and laundry even tried telling me how scum he is cuz of the fact that he SHOULD understand em. his thought process was laid out, it was relatable, and he's scum hunting in all directions.
#HBC | Amidamaru
Zen|Ranmaru
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2014
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- 680
@Protean- : Why did you feel the need to point out my sheepiness? You were here ITT when Ami asked for my vote and you never brought a problem with it until recently. Why not bring it up when it started and if you have a problem with it, why not question it? In fact, it's weird you choose the post I am saying I am annoyed they have done nothing with my vote as a reason to point it out.
Currently, I am not feeling J. As I had weak reads and it took me a while to develop them, I can understand him also having weak reads to start. Nothing seems to be sticking out to him it seems. I also don't find scum motivation for him to initiate this argument with you, instead of you bringing it up upon a re-read. I am wondering, why didn't you seem to have a problem with it at the time he posted the 'I'm tired of you not voting ami" post as J stated. (If you did then sorry, don't remember)
Secondly, I agree with him that scum can be side-lining in this town. This game had a slow start, and I'm going to give some leeway when scum seem to be sidelining. Yet the only thing I can see of concern is his Jex read. Even MB can see that Jex is much more passive here, and I'm not even looking at his AtE. People always call Soup's AtE null but now when Jex brings up AtE without much pressure, he's instantly town. That's annoying to me. I'm going to read further into the mini to understand J's thought process here. (Meaning, I don't know why he believes Jex to really be genuine here) The only other point is J not voting when I gave him back his vote. (Even though I asked him to vote with me on Levi later)
Finally, I don't think forcing J out of his typical D1 not post as much stick is going to be fruitful. It just frustrates him, as you see it did in the last page. As much as I'd like for J to be active, I can't help it, just as much as I can't help you being ok with letting people have summaries as replacements. (theory) I mean it won't help me actually read his slot. Currently I'd rather see J post contribution to the thread to see what he's really thinking, especially since you really suspect him.
Can J be the scum sidelining calling out others for sidelining? Possibly, but I don't have any strong evidence to point to this. Can you tell me why this isn't simply townJ who has not bitten into the game and truly doesn't have strong scumreads to give/vote? Also, how are you feeling on Levi now? Before further commenting on J, I want to see your progression from Levi > J, and if you think they are scum together. I also need Gorf to answer my question to go along with this. This is definetly something I need from you before you push further.
@
#HBC | J
: Hey J. Can you tell me why you didn't vote at the time you stated you were tired of me not voting for you to proxy? Also, can you tell me how you are feeling on Dabuz?o and @ ran's holding the front comment:
rude! the passenger is important on road trips (like a mafia game) in case the driver like needs a break or almost hits a car when he's taking a hot or like needs direction or something
rude! the passenger is important on road trips (like a mafia game) in case the driver like needs a break or almost hits a car when he's taking a hot or like needs direction or something
#HBC | Amidamaru
Zen|Ranmaru
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- 680
Never mind on the gorf answer. Got it, looking at it. Please tell answer my other question. Currently I still feel lynching Jexy would be our best course here, as it'll help clear up J as well.
#HBC | Amidamaru
Zen|Ranmaru
- Joined
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Yeah but the passenger has to pay that gas money. He has to put out somehow.o and @ ran's holding the front comment:
rude! the passenger is important on road trips (like a mafia game) in case the driver like needs a break or almost hits a car when he's taking a hot or like needs direction or something
#HBC | Amidamaru
Zen|Ranmaru
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Also Gorf how are you reading me btw?
JeXs
Smash Champion
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Your problem with him is that he wants to lynch you and that he isn't doing much. I'm not doing much either. It's been stated many times that he doesn't do much Day 1. You yourself admitted that. The least you can do is to wait till Day 2 and see if his play improves. As to him wanting to lynch you, I'm not seeing that at all. He's only asking people if they would lynch you. If he really wanted to lynch you he'd have voted you once ami told him to use his own vote.
But what about the fact that they're still ****ing weak now? Did you even see his reasons to lynch me on the last page? Did you see his actual excuse of a read at best for me?
Him making a point of scum sidelining means ****all to me because it's an easy statement to make and one no one will question him for saying (even though everyone's made substantial posts at this point except Kantrip). That's also not a pass.
I don't give a **** about his D1 schtick or the fact that he got frustrated to call him out. Look at what I posted, my own arguments, and the evidence I have backing them up. Look at his responses to me pressuring his read of me. I don't give a **** if he wants to play the inactive card D1 as long as he makes good content but he has yet to do that. In fact, his content is 99.9% scummy as ****.
I just gave you two long posts full of strong evidence. The second half of the last page is strong evidence. Don't give me that. There's literally no reason for townJ to come to the conclusion that I'm town and say that he wants to lynch me regardless because I'm annoying. Literally no reason for any townie to say that. He should be lynched for that alone. His bogus explanation for the way he handled his read on me is also scummy as ****.
I still think he's scummy, I'm just way more confident in my scumJ read.
Go read it again. It's not that he's not doing a lot due to inactivity, it's that he's refusing to make an actual ****ing stance that isn't some half-assed "lean", even a slot he's been manipulatively pushing from the start of the game. There's a massive disconnect in the things he says about my slot and the way he treats it. There's a massive disconnect in his adamant insistence that he's playing the game and yet neither Gorf nor I (gorf's talking to me atm) remember a real definitive stance outside of his 4 town-leans, admittedly 4 easy as **** reads to make at the time. There's also a problem that despite the fact that the game has continued and despite the fact that there's plenty more information from the time he made his readslist, not a single read has progressed. He's not progressing his reads, he's not even lynching me because he thinks I'm scum, he's not scumhunting, he's not posting anything of value when he's here.
#HBC | Amidamaru
Zen|Ranmaru
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Hold the phone. Jex, can you get to that Bardull question? Man, recently you are giving posts with good reasoning, but still JexyTron3000 mode. Like you are giving posts with reasoning all of a sudden. I'm not trying to bead a dead horse but to me it seems fed. Anyways, please do this please so I can see your (scumread) thoughts mang.
And if all else fails:
Lynch him for this. This is such a horrible explanation for the subtle suggestions for people to lynch me and the fact that I consistently appeared on his lynchlist. No one "tries to differentiate from bad play or scum play" by saying "lynch this person" over and over again.
JeXs
Smash Champion
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All my reads were leans too. Despite that, I know for a fact that I'm town. My reads haven't progressed all that much either. I really don't see why you.are this sure he's scum. He never pushed your slot. He was just asking if people would lynch you. Look at his vote. He did not vote you.
Ran I'm getting to it. I just got home. If you think it's fed then well nothing I can do to prove that it's not.
Ran I'm getting to it. I just got home. If you think it's fed then well nothing I can do to prove that it's not.
oh ive been putting out. ive certainly made a reasonable amount of posts n talked it up with laundry. id almost be offended if he said i wasn't being AT LEAST a swag hydra partner.
@ ran my read on your slot is swag. ever since our slot was being pushed.
i want somebody who thinks they have a reasonable meta for townj to tell me what they think it is. i mean,most of the detraction for disliking his play has been meta, and nobody else would get a free pass for the way he's been playing, right?
@ ran my read on your slot is swag. ever since our slot was being pushed.
i want somebody who thinks they have a reasonable meta for townj to tell me what they think it is. i mean,most of the detraction for disliking his play has been meta, and nobody else would get a free pass for the way he's been playing, right?
JeXs
Smash Champion
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This seems legit on J's part. He's keeping you at arm length. He never pushed your slot for a lynch. He just can't decide if you're scum or not.And if all else fails:
Lynch him for this. This is such a horrible explanation for the subtle suggestions for people to lynch me and the fact that I consistently appeared on his lynchlist. No one "tries to differentiate from bad play or scum play" by saying "lynch this person" over and over again.
The game is not that mechanical. Just because you did it and your role pm says you're town doesn't make it right. Nor does it excuse him from doing it either. Besides, your reads are weak but at least they changed and reacted to new information. His never have.
And no one asks people to lynch a person if they're not pushing them. The fact that he didn't vote for me is even more suspect. It shows his ****ing read is suspect. You don't have to throw a vote to make suspect plays with your lynch "targets".
Note to JeXs: Keeping someone at arm's length is scummy play.
Second note to JeXs: No one keeps saying "I want to lynch this person" if they can't decide if we're scum or not.
I wanna add onto this that I don't understand why you don't like that Gorf isn't nearly as active as me and yet it's okay for your other head to be MIA the whole time? Gorf does ****. Gorf has a life. In the meantime, you have me, and we talk as often as we can. There's absolutely no problems to be had here. What are you digging at?oh ive been putting out. ive certainly made a reasonable amount of posts n talked it up with laundry. id almost be offended if he said i wasn't being AT LEAST a swag hydra partner.
@ ran my read on your slot is swag. ever since our slot was being pushed.
i want somebody who thinks they have a reasonable meta for townj to tell me what they think it is. i mean,most of the detraction for disliking his play has been meta, and nobody else would get a free pass for the way he's been playing, right?
bolded is FAR from true n this plus the multitude of jumping to j's side makes the chainsaw whistles blow in my ears. it's one thing to play devil's advocate, it's another to straight fight alongside against his lynch, especially for a slot who he's both town leaning, and for a slot who's at a 4 through a 5.5 on that scale the sexy half of this hydra made earlier.
#HBC | Amidamaru
Zen|Ranmaru
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I never disliked Gorf being less present. I don't know where you seemed to get that from me. I just wanted him to substantiate mb/levi and the progression, because you stated that you were moving to levi because gorf was feeling him and Levi pointed that there may have been some missing logic from town levi > scum levi so I just wanted to see him substantiate that. If Zen did the same thing and people wanted to know I'd pester him too with skypes and texts, but it's mostly been me doing all the reads/work for now.
JeXs, why did you like this post?I wanna add onto this that I don't understand why you don't like that Gorf isn't nearly as active as me and yet it's okay for your other head to be MIA the whole time? Gorf does ****. Gorf has a life. In the meantime, you have me, and we talk as often as we can. There's absolutely no problems to be had here. What are you digging at?
JeXs
Smash Champion
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I understand that Gorf has a life and shouldn't be punished for not being as active as you are when you can relay his thoughts to us just fine.JeXs, why did you like this post?
#HBC | Amidamaru
Zen|Ranmaru
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JexS, before you do anything else I want you to work on that BardulL post. You said you got home. The J question is a good one. But please work on Bardull for now. Also, do you think I was punishing Gorf for being inactive?
No but I was curious why you were trying to call him out on what appeared to be his activity levels.
@ran since you seem to be on,
note this is gonna be HELL for those who aren't currently present.i want somebody who thinks they have a reasonable meta for townj to tell me what they think it is. i mean,most of the detraction for disliking his play has been meta, and nobody else would get a free pass for the way he's been playing, right?
#HBC | Amidamaru
Zen|Ranmaru
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If you are talking about the passenger comment, I thought he was referring to me waiting for WK and Jex to give an opinion before me.