Mafia Royal Sleepover - The Party has been Crashed! Mafia Wins!

[Rockin]

Mafia Royal Sleepover

Swiss (1) - Circus

Glyph (1) - J

Nabe (2) - Zen, Chibo

Not Voting - Gova, Swiss, Glyph, Nabe

It takes 5/8 votes for a lynch. Deadline is March 18th, 2010

@Mod: Request replacement for Glyph.

Access Denied

 

[Xivii]

@Gova, I didn't mispell it on purpose, I'm just a horrible speller.

Me, Circus, Chibo, Glyph, Gova

J, Swiss, Nabe.

Circus, not lynching Nabe would be a mistake.

Glyph, please do follow your mason partner's vote.

Gova, please do actually vote today. And by vote, I mean vote Nabe.

We don't need to lynch yet however. We need to determine who out of J and Swiss is Nabes partner.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

vote: nabe

 

[CT Chia]

We don't need to lynch yet however. We need to determine who out of J and Swiss is Nabes partner.

We aren't 100% sure of Nabe's alignment, therefor we should not be looking for concrete connections to him until we are sure of what we his. Remember we have a 24 hour twilight phase + tomorrow
Honestly I'm find with today ending now

 

[Xivii]

There's much more we can get out of this day. Half the players are V/LA and we need to get more input from them, especially Swiss and Nabe. How are you going to say that we aren't 100% on Nabe and shouldn't be looking for concrete connections yet you don't even want to get more info to determine that surety. Yes, Nabe is likely scum, but we aren't just going to blindly lynch. What's wrong with you this game?

More from x1:

"His partner claiming would make 2 confirmed town."

(From memory, not direct. When Gheb or someone was saying Chibos partner shouldn't claim).

This just doesn't seem like something he would argue being the fact that he was your partner and didn't claim.

Why would he be trying so hard to keep from outing himself as mason, Chibo?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Hammer is fine, I know my character isn't the best-looking and we found scum yesterDay, ML is fine. Examine Gova if you like, but please make sure to look at Swiss as well when he has time to post, lol. Not to mention make Chibo and Glyph talk more. Zen is town, I'd imagine. J as well. No idea on Circus.

 

[Xivii]

We aren't lynching yet. If you're town then get back in this.

Are you off V/LA yet? Read up. We need more than that. We are lynching scum today. If you're not, then show us you're not and show us who is.

 

[Radical Fiction]

Swiss here, skimming threads.

Zen make a case on Nabe if that hasn't been done already. A concise post with any key facts might be an idea. I'll be skimming some posts when I do actually re-read. Not sure why I'm talking to you specifically about this. Roll with it.

Should be free tomorrow afternoon. Even V/LA can't halt my searing townie intentions. We have over a week 'till deadline yes? Cool.

 

[Xivii]

Who is a part of that hydra? You and Ryker?

 

[Xivii]

Nevermind.

 

[Circus]

So Circus, what's your opinion on Zen's day 1 play? I still think Zen might be the other scum we're looking for, and if he isn't, then he played one of the worst townie games I've ever seen. The motive behind most of his actions can only be seen as him being scum. Also, he fits in line with your theory of some scum being on the Gheb wagon of the 4 of us (me, zen, glyph, and swiss).

To be honest, I don't have any opinion on Zen's D1 play at all because my focus wasn't on him when I was reading the D1 posts. If I get some free time, I'll try to make a point of reading him (as well as a few other players) in relation to Gheb during the past Days. Not really up to doing it right now as I've had a busy day.

I'm obviously reconsidering plenty of things now that Glyph has claimed. My opinion of Swiss has not changed much. For what it's worth.

Zen, since you seem to be having trouble swallowing the Chibo/Glyph mason as fact, what is your theory? Do you think it's possible that Chibo and Glyph are scum with some strategic PR faking?

One more thing: ANYONE KEEN ON ENDING THIS DAY EARLY IS NOT PLAYING IN A WAY THAT FAVORS TOWN, PERIOD. Gheb was a fine quicklynch since the town essentially had a bingo on him after OS' flip. That is not the case for anyone else left in the game, so let's not be hasty. Just because we have a mislynch doesn't make it any smarter to throw away all that discussion time, especially with so many players seemingly in varying levels of V/LA.

 

[Xivii]

Strategic, no. More like a scumbuddy would have no choice but to come forward as mason if his partner were to survive. It bugs me that x1 of all people would leave no crumb, and instead do the opposite.

Weird question from you, Circus.

 

[Circus]

Strategic, no. More like a scumbuddy would have no choice but to come forward as mason if his partner were to survive. It bugs me that x1 of all people would leave no crumb, and instead do the opposite.

Weird question from you, Circus.

That's kind of what I meant by "strategic." Because (and do correct me if I have this wrong) what you seem to be suggesting is that Chibo, as scum, may have claimed mason early on in the game in order to appear town with the presumption that one of his scumbuddies would claim to be his mason partner later in the game. It would certainly be an interesting gambit.

But I just want to make sure we're thinking clearly about this. After all, I know I sound like a broken record, but this town did lynch its doctor on D1 because of some serious trust issues. You didn't seem to think that either Chibo or Glyph were scum before, but now that they claim to be in a masonry, they seem to be pinging on your radar more. I want you to be sure that you're actually hunting scum and not just being paranoid.

 

[Swiss]

Who is a part of that hydra? You and Ryker?

Why was this asked? You feel it possible someone could pretend to be me? Would this not out them as scum immediately?

Good avenue for pseudo scum hunting, though.

I realised yesterday that what I cleared you off is in fact not necessarily a town tell from you. Problem? Cool, thought not. Circus this doesn't count as flip-flopping on my stance before you try and say it does (or equally amusing words to that effect).

 

[Swiss]

Mass claim order should be:

Nabe
Swiss
J
Gova
Circus
Glyph

Reason why Swiss before the others is because he is very unknown right now and has been far too inactive. But really I don't care if J goes before him. Either or. Is everyone fine with this order? This doesn't need to be too complicated.

Circus, out curiousity, what made you decide to replace into this game? What alignment were you hoping to get and did you get it? Also had you already been reading the game before Rockin needed a replacement?

Looking into the bolded more. I was inactive, glossing over the fact I probably wouldn't do that as scum (I actually would, but hey, I can be meta'd, right?). I'd assume inactivity is a null tell, showing you only found Nabe to be scummy. So, why? Why only him? Sure he's probably scummy. But why only him?

 

[Swiss]

Swiss' 1489 to Gheb's 1495 screams scum bussing to me.

Validate this.

Cool, screams bussing? How?

Not sure how I missed this the first time round.

In addition to that, he pushed hard on a lynch of our un-CC'd town doctor (still don't understand how that ****ing went through)

Would you be suspecting OS if he were still alive for the reason? What actions and pressure have you taken on others with the same opinion as me, especially considering I have been V/LA and unable to respond to your 'points'. Rephrasing this question, it would be "Why have you only pursued one of the 'culprits'?".

Why did you believe Kuz? You openly admit you've skimmed D1, yet feel confident enough in your town read of Kuz to believe his claim after his lies. I wish we had you here earlier. You look like you would have been a great asset to town.

Glyph, on D3, basically struck me as scum waffling on whether or not to hard distance a buddy

Again, you offer no real content. Why? Are you refusing to validate your claims (I'd hope not) or do you simply feel it is so obvious that surely no-one needs to know? If the latter, is this town sub-par as you seem to already have implied with the Kuz lynch? How do you feel you will rectify this situation?

He was reluctant to throw his vote on Gheb at first, but then made up his mind to do so right before Gheb self-hammered. I imagine Gheb and his other scummate (Swiss?) got him to vote so that he would be on Gheb's wagon, and then Gheb hammered himself to end the Day with his buddy/buddies looking clearer.

Wtf scum team would have both members participate in a gamit bus?

Still, I don't want to tunnel, so I'm more than eager to read what Swiss and Glyph and everyone else have to say about this, but they're my priority right now.

The sentiment here is great, no townie wants to tunnel (well, you don't, anyway, stick to what you can do) and I'm sure this deserves town points. How do you fele your actions have reflected this stance that you wish to avoid tunnelling? How confident are you in your scum read on Glyph if you wish to avoid tunnleling him? Or are you averse to tunnelling scum? Why?

Just saw your most recent post. I've pretty much read through D2 and D3 in their entirety. D1, I bounced around a little more, mostly focusing on the Kuz lynch and how it played out. Which was actually quite eye-opening about certain players, I think.

Validate.

Or, to put it another way. Show the multiple stances you say you gained from the Kuz lynch.

 

[Swiss]

Vote: Glyph

While I'm here.

Why?

You consistently fail to ever provide reasoning for any of your actions.

Do you feel it is unnecessary because you have players protecting you? Why is the fact you are temporarily 'protected' justification for a lack of content?

 

[Swiss]

Neither Swiss nor Nabe is obv scum to me. Nor are you anymore.

As for why I'm not voting, I feel that d4 is no time to be throwing votes around unless I know who scum is.

Why I asked why you felt the need to vote is because you had no reason other than you want to lynch Glyph/Circus. You are not attempting to gain anything from the vote. You simply layed it there because you were here, just like you did with Nabe d2. Get serious and use your head. We aren't losing this game.

Who is scum then?

Circus, J, Zen, Chibo, Gova, Swiss, Glyph, Nabe.

 

[Swiss]

One more thing: ANYONE KEEN ON ENDING THIS DAY EARLY IS NOT PLAYING IN A WAY THAT FAVORS TOWN, PERIOD. Gheb was a fine quicklynch since the town essentially had a bingo on him after OS' flip. That is not the case for anyone else left in the game, so let's not be hasty. Just because we have a mislynch doesn't make it any smarter to throw away all that discussion time, especially with so many players seemingly in varying levels of V/LA.

Firstly, the capitalised part.

You believe Gheb's quickhammer was beneficial to town? Was it also beneficial to scum? Why would Gheb have quickhammered if it was not beneficial to scum?

Now into the part merely bolded. You clearly believe we should hammer any scum ASAP. What about the discussion town can have is useless to you? Are you not interested in it? Also note that you do not openly state 'Hammer people ASAP' - yet your intention to do so is clear, it is a far more subtle way to increase the probability that a player will quickhammer. Allowing the hypothetical scum-Circus to sit back and cast doubt on those who quickhammered against you spoken belief, yet where did they pic the idea up from?

From you, Circus.

Of course, I wouldn't want to tunnel.

 

[Swiss]

Also, we should use post counts as a good indicator of who's been contributing the most.

Chibo, you down with this yeah? Cool. Knew you would be.

 

[Swiss]

Not read the previous days yet btw.

And this case on Nabe is where?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Swiss posting? Mine eyes.
Rereading now.

 

[Swiss]

Strategic, no. More like a scumbuddy would have no choice but to come forward as mason if his partner were to survive. It bugs me that x1 of all people would leave no crumb, and instead do the opposite.

How likely is it that scum would do this?

 

[Swiss]

^ That's more rhetorical.

But if you want to lynch Chibo to clear or condemn Gova then you can't.

ToMorrow maybe.

 

[Swiss]

Actually not even toMorrow.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Glyph is the mason claim, not Gova.
If Swiss is scum, it's not with Gova, Glyph or Chibo. FYI.
He's not scum though, so that's fine.

 

[Swiss]

Might've skimmed. Points stands with Glyph and not Gova.

Who's the lynch, Nabe?

 

[CT Chia]

Not read the previous days yet btw.

And this case on Nabe is where?

Read my couple of latests posts plz

 

[Xivii]

That's kind of what I meant by "strategic." Because (and do correct me if I have this wrong) what you seem to be suggesting is that Chibo, as scum, may have claimed mason early on in the game in order to appear town with the presumption that one of his scumbuddies would claim to be his mason partner later in the game. It would certainly be an interesting gambit.

But I just want to make sure we're thinking clearly about this. After all, I know I sound like a broken record, but this town did lynch its doctor on D1 because of some serious trust issues. You didn't seem to think that either Chibo or Glyph were scum before, but now that they claim to be in a masonry, they seem to be pinging on your radar more. I want you to be sure that you're actually hunting scum and not just being paranoid.

I'm not paranoid in the slightest. I simply leave no stone left unturned regardless of what I currently believe to be the case because that is how we win. My town read on both of them remains, as posted in #1642.

There's something weird about you here. You seem on the fence with this. In one way you are belittling my suspicions, yet you're also working reasoning in there at the same time. What's the difference between being paranoid and scumhunting? It seems to me like someone who was paranoid would still in fact be scumhunting.

Why was this asked? You feel it possible someone could pretend to be me? Would this not out them as scum immediately?

Good avenue for pseudo scum hunting, though.

I realised yesterday that what I cleared you off is in fact not necessarily a town tell from you. Problem? Cool, thought not. Circus this doesn't count as flip-flopping on my stance before you try and say it does (or equally amusing words to that effect).

That question had nothing to do with this game. I was simply curious because I responded to the hydra in the MVP thread and had no idea who it was and was suprised you were half.

Looking into the bolded more. I was inactive, glossing over the fact I probably wouldn't do that as scum (I actually would, but hey, I can be meta'd, right?). I'd assume inactivity is a null tell, showing you only found Nabe to be scummy. So, why? Why only him? Sure he's probably scummy. But why only him?

I have no idea what you're saying here. I don't think you do either haha.

 

[Xivii]

Who is scum then?

Circus, J, Zen, Chibo, Gova, Swiss, Glyph, Nabe.

#1642. Not being obv scum doesn't mean I don't think you're scummy.

You, J, and Nabe.

 

[Xivii]

Circus, why do you think Gova is more likely to be scum than Nabe?

 

[Circus]

Validate this.

Cool, screams bussing? How?

Not sure how I missed this the first time round.

"Validate this?" I think it's pretty self-explanatory. OS flipped cop, immediately damning Gheb. Scum would have known Gheb was probably done for and would have begun bussing as soon as possible. You were, I believe, the first one to vote Gheb and you had an immediate back and forth with him. This is a little meta, but the time between the posts makes it look almost coordinated. Although you may have hesitated to follow through, because you tried to think of ways Gheb could be innocent for him after you cast the vote. Maybe you were hoping the town would get caught up in wifom and Gheb might be able to wriggle out from the noose under the guise of possibly being another miller.

Would you be suspecting OS if he were still alive for the reason? What actions and pressure have you taken on others with the same opinion as me, especially considering I have been V/LA and unable to respond to your 'points'. Rephrasing this question, it would be "Why have you only pursued one of the 'culprits'?".

Yes, I probably would be on OS' case about this if I had less information then I do. As it stands, he's already dead and I know he was the cop and I know Gheb was mafia. If I did not know any of those things, OS would probably be on my **** list right now. I don't know that I would agree that I'm "only pursuing one of the culprits," because I don't think I'm really pursuing anyone right now. I stated my opinions on several people and that's about it. And for the record, when you went V/LA, I basically considered you off the table of "pursuit" for a while. Go read the post where I said how I'm not comfortable lynching people who are not present to defend themselves.

Why did you believe Kuz? You openly admit you've skimmed D1, yet feel confident enough in your town read of Kuz to believe his claim after his lies. I wish we had you here earlier. You look like you would have been a great asset to town.

I had no choice but to believe Kuz. As I believe I have said before, by the time I read through any portion of D1 at all, I already knew he was the town doctor. I read through D1 like someone watching Fight Club for the first time who already knows Brad Pitt and Edward Norton are the same person. I couldn't remove the information from my brain.

My point in bringing up kuz was that, once he had claimed to the town, I would not have voted for his lynch without a counter claim. When someone claims doc, you don't ****ing kill him. And telling other people not to counter him was stupid. If Kuz had been scum and was just trying to out the doc, that would have been fine, because then we still would have ended up with a dead doctor, but we also would have had a dead mafioso D1. By telling everyone else not to CC him, you (and others, certainly) made it look like there was likely to be some other "real" doctor out there and he just wasn't coming forward because he didn't want to play into the scum gambit. You made a really simple thing that should have immediately cleared a town way more complicated than it had to be, and it ended in disaster.

Again, you offer no real content. Why? Are you refusing to validate your claims (I'd hope not) or do you simply feel it is so obvious that surely no-one needs to know? If the latter, is this town sub-par as you seem to already have implied with the Kuz lynch? How do you feel you will rectify this situation?

How is that not real content? I told you that I thought Glyph was scummy and I gave a reason why, expecting that I didn't need to go and quote specific posts from a Day that was only about a page long in order to back up what I was saying.

As to the rest of this, I don't see what you expect to get out of my answer. Yes, I think I've been clear about the fact that I think the Kuz lynch was absurdly bad town play and I really don't see how anyone could disagree. But we all make mistakes; I've certainly made plenty in the mafia games I've played. I don't think this town is "sub-par," but I do think this town needs to stop getting so bogged down in wifom and just look at what's right in front of them.

Wtf scum team would have both members participate in a gamit bus?

Maybe they didn't. I don't know. I'm saying it's possible. Would you like to tell me why it's not?

The sentiment here is great, no townie wants to tunnel (well, you don't, anyway, stick to what you can do) and I'm sure this deserves town points. How do you fele your actions have reflected this stance that you wish to avoid tunnelling? How confident are you in your scum read on Glyph if you wish to avoid tunnleling him? Or are you averse to tunnelling scum? Why?

I don't know what you want from me here. I thought you and Glyph were easily the scummiest players at the beginning of this Day and neither of you have really been able to say anything to sway me since then (I'm not trying to make a case here; I know you both have been having issues getting online and stuff). I'm trying not to tunnel. I'm keeping my options open even if I feel very strongly about certain people. You act like the fact that I'm not expressing finding nulltells on everyone in this game means I'm tunneling.

And for the record, I'm much less confident on my scumread of Glyph now that he has claimed. See? I'm a flexible guy. I'm just not a push-over.

Validate.

Or, to put it another way. Show the multiple stances you say you gained from the Kuz lynch.

I did not say anything about "gaining multiple stances." I just think that the Kuz situation bore some interesting reads for me based on the way people reacted. For example, J defended Kuz. One of the few who did, actually. As a result of that, he seems quite town to me. Tangenting from that, certain people (including confirmed scum Gheb) have been on J's case in the past for reasons that they have not even explained (looking at you now) and that seems fishy to me. These kinds of branching relationships are how I form my view of the town. That's all that means.

You believe Gheb's quickhammer was beneficial to town?

I said it was fine that we quicklynched. I did not say it was beneficial. However, I think the fact that Gheb hammered the way he did may have been more telling than Gheb had initially thought.

Was it also beneficial to scum? Why would Gheb have quickhammered if it was not beneficial to scum?

It is very easy to see why Gheb could have perceived it to be beneficial to scum. He ended the day quickly, limiting town's time for discussion, and he probably got some scum on his wagon in hopes that that player (or those players) would seem more town as a result. I have said this before. Just because it may be backfiring on the mafia now doesn't mean they didn't think it was a good idea then.

Now into the part merely bolded. You clearly believe we should hammer any scum ASAP. What about the discussion town can have is useless to you? Are you not interested in it? Also note that you do not openly state 'Hammer people ASAP' - yet your intention to do so is clear, it is a far more subtle way to increase the probability that a player will quickhammer. Allowing the hypothetical scum-Circus to sit back and cast doubt on those who quickhammered against you spoken belief, yet where did they pic the idea up from?

From you, Circus.

Whoa. What are you even trying to say here? Stop putting words in my mouth. I have not expressed any interest in ending the day early or quicklynching at all. In fact, the complete opposite is true. Honestly, I don't know how you could have even misread me to such a horrendous degree that you would think this. I said, in the exact post that you quoted, that anyone who wants to end the Day early or is comfortable with throwing away town discussion time because we have a mislynch is NOT playing in a way that is favorable to town. I brought this up because Nabe said he was okay with us hammering him and Chibo said he was fine with today ending now. Whether or not either of them is town, those are not ideas that help town. Let me be clear: I want this Day to last a long time. I do not want to lynch anyone until town has had lots of time to discuss possibilities and explore different avenues of thought. I do not want to quicklynch, because I do not want to mislynch, even if we are still capable of winning if we do. Do not twist my words around like that again.

In conclusion, you are OMGUS-ing me hardcore right now. Is this your way of trying to get me to think you're not scum? Because I'll warn you now that it's not working.

I think there's other **** that I wanted to respond to but I'm exhausted after this. Will come back later after I've mellowed out a bit with my pokemanz.

 

[Xivii]

Swiss you have yet to provide reasoning for why J is scum. Funny how relunctant you are to look into Nabe without a layed out case, yet so willing to stick to J as scum with no reasoning at all.

 

[Xivii]

J don't forget to answer.

 

[Circus]

Glyph is the mason claim, not Gova.
If Swiss is scum, it's not with Gova, Glyph or Chibo. FYI.
He's not scum though, so that's fine.

You better believe I want some elaboration on this.

I'm not paranoid in the slightest. I simply leave no stone left unturned regardless of what I currently believe to be the case because that is how we win. My town read on both of them remains, as posted in #1642.

There's something weird about you here. You seem on the fence with this. In one way you are belittling my suspicions, yet you're also working reasoning in there at the same time. What's the difference between being paranoid and scumhunting? It seems to me like someone who was paranoid would still in fact be scumhunting.

You have a point, actually. I suppose I'm the one that's getting a little paranoid. For some reason I'm just worried that we're going to spend the Day jumping down rabbit holes that lead nowhere and I'm trying to nip them in the bud now. But after some consideration, I think that's actually not necessary yet, or even a good idea right now. There's no reason not to look into this a little bit.

With that said, it probably seems like I'm on the fence because I kind of am on the fence. Really wasn't liking Glyph before, but his claim seems solid. And if he's scum, then it's with Chibo and not Swiss, which doesn't feel right to me. I still see it as a possibility.

The reason I'm wary about getting too suspicious of the Chibo/Glyph mason claim is that I think it may be needlessly cluttering the town's suspect pool. Totally in favor of turning over stones, but at some point (not now) we have to narrow down our options. I think we need to just keep in mind how believable Chibo's and Glyph's claims are.

Circus, why do you think Gova is more likely to be scum than Nabe?

At this point, I don't think I do. I just hate the idea of Gova being with us in endgame. I could warm up to a Nabe lynch.

 

[Xivii]

Get off that Ouran High. You're making this so difficult......

 

[#HBC | J]

Sorry but no can do, I am totally obsessed at the moment.

On like a 3/4 hour marathon still so don't wait up! I still got three full discs ^^

 

[Xivii]

...why did you join this then...

 

[#HBC | J]

join what?

This mafia game?

Because I wanted to play, now let me have a break cuz atm I am really just not in the mood for mafia.

 

[Gova]

Oh man, the irony is killing me.

Like figuratively killing me.

I'm dying.