Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

[Detective Mao]

Wiisp, no one's forcing you to push yourself. We're all trying our best here, but continuously defending someone isn't going to lead us anywhere. That's why I told people to drop the topic. If you're town, I'd love to discuss our reads – maybe it's better if you take a break and come back when you're feeling better?

 

[Wiisp]

Are pressure wagons out of character at MTGS? If not then why do you knee jerk so badly to one with two votes?

what even is a pressure wagon? like if you have no case, how exactly do expect people to respond? There is a very small subset of players on MTGS that react to votes, and I am one of them, and it tells you literally nothing because its completely nai for me

you vote who you think is a wolf, not who you want to pressure

 

[Detective Mao]

I want to interact with you as much as possible precisely because I suspect you, and that's why I asked you to elaborate on your read. You just need to find the right things to focus on, yeah?

 

[Detective Mao]

Granted, right now I'm going to go play Ace Attorney

See you all soon, I hope I can talk to you more Wiisp o/

 

[Wiisp]

There is nothing left to discuss what else do you want me to say on Frozen
I do not need to focus on Chaco, I don't not need to focus on Rhand, I don't care about swiss
We do not need to make these obnoxiously premature town circles
you find someone you think is a wolf, and vote them
that is what I am doing

until Frozen comes back, there is nothing left to discuss, I believe they are easily the most wolfy player in this game
also a decent chunk of players haven't even made real content yet
so like I am not going to make up reads

Whysper is probably the second most likely just because they have,'t come back yet? but it isn't anything tangible

 

[Wam]

Rhand and others.

My one of the two is scum was entirely based on page 1 interactions and should be given the same weight any page 1 read is.

I.e. pretty much nothing.

 

[Wiisp]

At least one of rhand and swiss are scum.

pick a side rhand scum or town?

WHy does there have to be a wolf in rhand/swiss
and Why do I have to pick a side? especially since you stated this only after catching up to page 3.
There is 0 reason why I have to decide Rhand's alignment right now, literally 0

 

[Wam]

Ps I am now town leaning on swiss.

 

[Wiisp]

Rhand and others.

My one of the two is scum was entirely based on page 1 interactions and should be given the same weight any page 1 read is.

I.e. pretty much nothing.

so then why exactly did you bother saying it?

 

[Wam]

so then why exactly did you bother saying it?

Why do we say anything in this game.

I thought my stream of consciousness as I went through would help me and be useful.

 

[Wiisp]

I want to interact with you as much as possible precisely because I suspect you, and that's why I asked you to elaborate on your read. You just need to find the right things to focus on, yeah?

I will focus on what the hell I want
and don't interact with me like I am a child
you guys want me to play the game your way, so feel my wrath

 

[Rhand]

Why do we say anything in this game.

I thought my stream of consciousness as I went through would help me and be useful.

So you’re not responsible for something you said about page one because it’s page one you were talking about?
And are you saying you actually had that thought when you read page one?

 

[Wiisp]

Why do we say anything in this game.

I thought my stream of consciousness as I went through would help me and be useful.

The streaming of your consciousness is a fine way to play the game
but no, if you are going to say thoughts that way, I don't expect you to backpedal them, this early
especially since you haven't stated anything in your 10 posts that justify saying the read means very little all of sudden

 

[Wam]

So you’re not responsible for something you said about page one because it’s page one you were talking about?
And are you saying you actually had that thought when you read page one?

I thought from the way I presented it it was obviously a read through having not noticed the game starting.

And yes I had that thought when reading page 1 wrote it down.

It even said based on page 1 only before the vote and that comment.

 

[Wiisp]

Frozen/Wam/Whysper
that is my **** list right now
I am not calling anyone a town lean, since I rely a little on meta, and I have very little or no experience with any of you

 

[Scarlet Rage]

There is 0 reason why we should be bottlenecking the PoE this early with so many easy town reads, and baseless pushes

Who is an "easy" townread or a "baseless" push and why?

 

[Wiisp]

Rhand in particular id' rather not touch day 1, even if I don't have a clear read on him

 

[Wiisp]

Who is an "easy" townread or a "baseless" push and why?

any of Swiss' thoughts
Mao might actually just be spewed town at this point

Why? because they are shallow
the Rhand push relies solely on black and white wolf vs town thoughts, that hold 0 wait outside context
most other town reads I have seen have just been tonal reads, something that is particularly easy to hide within as a wolf
even easier in a game that is multiball

if the traitor knows all the wolves which I can't remember if he does, than he would be an exception to the multiball issue
and if the above is true, he can easily choose to side with w/e wolf team seems stronger to him, to get himself out of the PoE, I would however not recommend that as something they should do day 1

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

It feels like rhand/wiisp read things incredibly literally by in mafia in general, and aren’t used to people showing confidence in something to gauge a reaction of it from people to base reads off of.

like really you think it’s pointless to say townreads and make pushes to see reactions? Like what people say is absolute, that stated reads/thought processes can’t be flexible or change or have deeper meanings than what is presented. It’s really consistent with both of you and I can’t tell if it’s scummy or just a clash in style of mafia

 

[Wiisp]

The read, "We have the same thoughts", is a pretty common way to build a town circle, which I am not against as a whole
I just think early on it can lead to incorrect pushes

 

[Wam]

How are those posts top quality mafia, why has nobody acknowledged that frozen post, or my read there. That is pretty infuriating

And I refuse to prematurely focus on a large group of people when there are 5 evils

Your frozen read as I see it is a disagreement on 3p where I agree with frozen and his read of detective Mao which I agree with! Am I missing something?

 

[Wiisp]

There is no need to vote for reactions, almost ever
Since how people reaction to votes is usually a personality thing, not an alignment thing
as for your other point, no
I do not believe trying to build town circles, and also pushing for wolves, makes the game any easier

 

[Wiisp]

the only time you need to worry about town leans on day 1, is if you believe they have a high chance of being flipped, and you want people to know how you feel about them

 

[Scarlet Rage]

what even is a pressure wagon? like if you have no case, how exactly do expect people to respond? There is a very small subset of players on MTGS that react to votes, and I am one of them, and it tells you literally nothing because its completely nai for me

you vote who you think is a wolf, not who you want to pressure

As town, a vote is your power. We all literally can't vote our number one SR all the time. We can use our vote to establish townblocks, punish bad policy, or pressure along with pushing our biggest scumreads. Votes tell the story of motivations. I'm not interested in leashing votes.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

The way you present your ideals for mafia seem like a game with barely any content and barely and connections that can be made and interactions that can be read back on after flips have been made, I really don’t get it, you sound like you’re trying to have town withhold information instead of be open with it

 

[Wam]

Below I think is going to be a major style clash.

There is no need to vote for reactions, almost ever
Since how people reaction to votes is usually a personality thing, not an alignment thing
as for your other point, no
I do not believe trying to build town circles, and also pushing for wolves, makes the game any easier

Disagree completely, reaction to votes and especially how other people react to wagons is the most useful tool we have.

the only time you need to worry about town leans on day 1, is if you believe they have a high chance of being flipped, and you want people to know how you feel about them

Why would town care that other people knew they thought a dead townie was town?

Town reads day 1 matter as they reduce your personal lynch pool and make you commit if that player flips scum later and on read back the town reasons are massively flimsy.

 

[Scarlet Rage]

Vote: Wam

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

We have the same thoughts

if this is @my wam statement in my catchup post, it wasn’t meant as a townread/town circle sort of thing. Those things I’m good with happening naturally, but honestly I just thought it was uncanny and something to note. I came first so if anything he can be parroting me, trying to pocket me, idk it’s just worth it to me letting him know and let everyone know that I noticed that

 

[Rhand]

I seriously don’t get it. English has many words.
Why say “At least one of Rhand and Swiss are scum” while what you really mean is “It’s too early to say but I wouldn’t be surprised if one of them is scum” or something like that?
Also, stream of consciousness works differently. If you post something in a stream of consciousness post and see something later that makes you doubt that, you set yourself straight.
Wam didn’t. He only backpedaled when called out.

 

[Wiisp]

As town, a vote is your power. We all literally can't vote our number one SR all the time. We can use our vote to establish townblocks, punish bad policy, or pressure along with pushing our biggest scumreads. Votes tell the story of motivations. I'm not interested in leashing votes.

You act like I said don't vote, voting is towns strongest tool, and in vanilla games it's the only way to win, using it to pressure doesn't mean anything if your vote doesn't have a reason to be there. I mean if you are working backwards and like everyone else? Sure, sometimes people can easily react wolfy to votes

But like making a lean list, with wolves and traitor reads and your like, "let me pressure this one dude who I didn't even give a read on, while I have actual scum leans", feels so dumb to me, and maybe wolfy, if not for Swiss' overall play so fsr

Chaco has responded extremely well to Scarlet's vote so far, so like if he is a wolf, what is it doing. Scarlet is there because they thing he is a wolf, that's why how your vote should be used once we break past rvs

 

[Wiisp]

Below I think is going to be a major style clash.


Disagree completely, reaction to votes and especially how other people react to wagons is the most useful tool we have.




Why would town care that other people knew they thought a dead townie was town?

Town reads day 1 matter as they reduce your personal lynch pool and make you commit if that player flips scum later and on read back the town reasons are massively flimsy.

Uhhm it's clear I'm talking about stopping an execute you think leads to a miss, not talking about them after they died. Did I somehow make that confusing? I

 

[Wiisp]

Wam
Agree to disagree then

#HBC | Gorf
I think a few people have made those thoughts, which like I said is fine, I'm just not particular interested in it, untill we can evaluate more people, and right now a lot of people haven't said anything

 

[Wiisp]

Below I think is going to be a major style clash.


Disagree completely, reaction to votes and especially how other people react to wagons is the most useful tool we have.




Why would town care that other people knew they thought a dead townie was town?

Town reads day 1 matter as they reduce your personal lynch pool and make you commit if that player flips scum later and on read back the town reasons are massively flimsy.

Ya and in the case of the last paragraph you don't need to keep stating them all over the thread, they are still in your head, affecting how you move forward with the game. I am not saying don't have town reads, I'm saying it's utterly ridiculous to place so many reads in the thread like they are gospel, opening up wolves/towns to reads they can follow for better or worse, it taints the natural flow of the game.

 

[Wiisp]

I play extremely different, I do not focus on large groups, I focus on small groups day 1 of people that are viable execute targets, or at least I try to. I go against my own rules a lot since I'm only human

Im stuck on mobile and also trying to enjoy my break. I really need to remind myself to do what I've been saying I'd do for a day now, read Chaco and Scarlet.

 

[Wiisp]

S Scarlet Rage
Why did you move your vote to Wam?

 

[Eido]

I'll come online later tonight but my head is here:

Swiss / Wiisp / Scarlet / Mao / Gorf
Frozen / Rhand / Wam / Chaco / ExLight
3DSNinja / Gellnick / Whysper

Not ordered. Comfortable with the top row.
Middle row feels ambiguous. I'm thinking about this row.
Bottom row straight up inactive. Gellnick still stands out to me here.

@Mod: we able to get a votecount?

 

[Chaco]

Chaco that is why it bothers me that you call what SR did chainsawing: it can ONLY be a chainsaw if I am aligned with SR. And for that to be true, you should want my flip always before sorting SR. You now think we are not aligned. What changed between when you said that and now?

Gut feel and how you responded. I don’t believe chainsaw has to be limited to what you say, I feel if you know alignments and want to shift focus it’s effective all the same, hence how it would work as a traitor in this case or a tool to gain credit. However when I tried to continue to derive motive, the push stopped so I’m kind’ve left in the dark on an otherwise very odd push. I could only glean so much from it.

 

[Chaco]

what even is a pressure wagon? like if you have no case, how exactly do expect people to respond? There is a very small subset of players on MTGS that react to votes, and I am one of them, and it tells you literally nothing because its completely nai for me

you vote who you think is a wolf, not who you want to pressure

Literally just running up votes for reaction and who connected will balk. Highly commonplace here and usually decently effective.

 

[Rhand]

Chaco seems fine.

 

[Wiisp]

Literally just running up votes for reaction and who connected will balk. Highly commonplace here and usually decently effective.

it was rhetorical

Rhand
can you put that into my words for the class