Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

[Chop Chop]

Vote Count 2

Rhand - FrozenFlame, Detective Mao, Swiss
Wiisp - Rhand, Wam
Wam - Scarlett Rage
ExLight - Chaco
Detective Mao - ExLight
Gellnick - Eido

 

[Rhand]

Chaco what is your read on Scarlet? And on me?

Swiss how do you come to a Wam town read? He said something that pinged me bigtime and I’m surprised you didn’t see that.
I need more from Chaco to solidify a read there. Stay tuned on that one.

Eido I don’t think Wiisp is the traitor. I think town is most likely because he knows I am not easy to pocket so him correctly calling the things I got heat for NAI doesn’t make a whole lot of sense if he’s mafia. Me getting lynched is good for mafia!Wiisp because he knows the chance of me finding him is huge.
But I’m not willing to bet the game on that read. I’m pretty sure I’ll know later on if he’s towning or not.

 

[Swiss]

^ #234

I'm tuned in and listening.

 

[Wiisp]

Rhand
Well if I'm mafia, you are dying tonight if you outlive today's shenanigans, that's a fact lol

But sadly I'm not

 

[Rhand]

^ #234

I'm tuned in and listening.

Lol ok.
He said this: “ At least one of rhand and swiss are scum. ”
And that’s a problem. He did it when casting suspicion on me. Fights like these are more often TvT than not. Looking at it from an outsider’s view and coming to that conclusion without giving any sign that he has reasons to suspect us both separately is mafia mindset.

I am trying to vote him but the bolding is somehow deactivated on my mobile.
Is there code I can use?

 

[Rhand]

Rhand
Well if I'm mafia, you are dying tonight if you outlive today's shenanigans, that's a fact lol

But sadly I'm not

Lol queue someone killing me and blaming it on you toMorrow.

 

[ExLight]

Rhand
Well if I'm mafia, you are dying tonight if you outlive today's shenanigans, that's a fact lol

But sadly I'm not

that’s WIFOM and I don’t really like when people say that as if it gave them any towncredit

 

[Rhand]

that’s WIFOM and I don’t really like when people say that as if it gave them any towncredit

It doesn’t make him town, but it is true. Wiisp will always kill me early when I town vs him.

 

[Wiisp]

Lol queue someone killing me and blaming it on you toMorrow.

that’s WIFOM and I don’t really like when people say that as if it gave them any towncredit

Lol
And
I don't need town credit, and it is exactly that, wifom

 

[ExLight]

It doesn’t make him town, but it is true. Wiisp will always kill me early when I town vs him.

why lol

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Tone reading someone who isn’t native to the language off a jokepost and treating that as gospel is bad.

i actually didnt consider that when i was reading you. can you elaborate on this point, what post did you make that you think people are misinterpreting? beyond that, i think there’s a degree to which im willing to trust other players reads on a player if i dont know either of them in general. like what if im just better than both of them and youre scum?

also im right to remember that english not being your native language didnt come up in thread, right?

i think it boils down to the fact that youre reacting really poorly to swiss’ pressure, whether youre town or scum. swiss’ play for a majority of page 1 was clearly bouncing off the nervous energy in your posts. i was doing the same thing and then you called me ****ing opportunistic. like yea bro what an opportunity, to put you at l-5 within a page. reactionary playstyles in and of themselves arent scummy, but your reactivity to the fairly benign things being thrown at you is what strikes at least me as scummy play.

At least one of rhand and swiss are scum.

is this a strong opinion? what in swiss’ method feels like it could be scummy, or are you not really insinuating that?

My take is both Mafia teams are not in great positions to hard-defend other players. This is because the defended player could be another side of scum. So to me this incentivises Mafia to scumhunt more than defend. I'm looking at hard-defenses then as a possible Townie reaction because of this.

i was actually thinking about this in wiisp hard defending rhand, heres a tree of thought:

-first of all its clear that, to a degree, this play is consistent with rhand as a player. that much isnt really significant when were talking about the action of defending someones meta.
-if wiisp is town, he sees that rhand is being wagoned and isnt taking either side (town!rand or scum!rand) strongly, cuz he doesnt feel all that confident in reading him anyway. but he wants to let the field know that his play isnt particularly strange to him.
-if wiisp is maf/ww and rhand is the other, he still knows the fact of his meta being consistent to be true. itd be out of character for him to try passing it off like it isnt. i feel strongly that they arent aligned, and on a rhand flip wiisp doesnt look all that bad connection wise if he has other scumreads hes made. same logic applies if wiisp is traitor and rhand is mafia, and wiisp has incentive to save him to a degree
-if wiisp is traitor and rhand is town, he looks good cuz he knew rhand was town

222-227 is top quality mafia

wam has almost the exact same reads as me. lol

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Yeh lol. There must be mafia in those pushes. Even if you’re not town because it’s multiball.
I haven’t felt like LHF in years (if ever). This feels weird.

I’m catching up.

whats lhf

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Lol ok.
He said this: “ At least one of rhand and swiss are scum. ”
And that’s a problem. He did it when casting suspicion on me. Fights like these are more often TvT than not. Looking at it from an outsider’s view and coming to that conclusion without giving any sign that he has reasons to suspect us both separately is mafia mindset.

I am trying to vote him but the bolding is somehow deactivated on my mobile.
Is there code I can use?

[b ] [/b ] without the spaces

exlight how much mafia experience do you have

 

[Wiisp]

How are those posts top quality mafia, why has nobody acknowledged that frozen post, or my read there. That is pretty infuriating

And I refuse to prematurely focus on a large group of people when there are 5 evils

 

[Wiisp]

if wiisp is town, he sees that rhand is being wagoned and isnt taking either side (town!rand or scum!rand) strongly, cuz he doesnt feel all that confident in reading him anyway. but he wants to let the field know that his play isnt particularly strange to him.

Yes, exactly this, thanks

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

i said it was top quality mafia because it was really funny to read, and i was actually about to read your case on ff right now tyvm

 

[ExLight]

exlight how much mafia experience do you have

uh around 1.5 years of active mafia

 

[Detective Mao]

I'm back! I've caught up with the thread, and I have a few things to say.

7 pages later, and you're still talking about the same thing. Sheesh. I do agree with Wiisp in a sense that the argument was mostly NAI, though I do have a townlean on Swiss – I'd be surprised if a wolf was that overly confident from the very beginning. I admit that part of this read is because a lot of our takes seem to overlap, haha.

Eida seems like a newbie town to me; I remember reading one of their takes about the defending thing, and while I personally disagree with it (as it's easy for wolves to get towncred by defending people) it didn't feel like a take that would come from a wolf.

Then my suspicions.

First of all, Whysper still hasn't posted after their initial pop-in. She has a tendency to slank as a scum from what I can recall, so I'd keep an eye out for her. If she doesn't post, I'd be willing to consider killing her, but we also need to keep in mind that this is 120/24. I'm not entirely sure how she's going to play this game. Thankfully, we can just ask!
Whysper Hey, how are you planning to approach this game?

The most I remember Wiisp doing is defend Rhand and throw in some sideline commentary, despite having lots of posts, and I think that's a problem. Wolves can easily disguise their lack of content by posting a lot of things that don't really say anything, and so far, that's what you've been doing. We're 7 pages in and you're still talking about Rhand not being as scummy as Swiss made them out to be, yet you're not townreading them either; thus avoiding taking a proper stance. I told you guys to drop it already. The action itself is fine, but I feel like you're deliberately prolonging it.
Wiisp you had a scumread on FrozenFlame, correct? I almost forgot it since you only briefly mentioned it and went right back to talking about Rhand. Can you talk about it more? What made their post bad enough to warrant a scumread?

I was originally a tiiiny bit suspicious of ExLight after reading the thread again, since he seemed to have trouble fitting in and was asking questions that didn't really lead anywhere. There's been a lot of conflict, so I'm surprised they haven't "found anything that pinged them" yet.
However, mental health issues are completely valid – and while that does not make me not suspect them, I'm willing to be more lenient on this case. I hope things go well for you.

I also have something to ask #HBC | Gorf . You here?

I'm sorry this is such a painful wall of text, by the way. I'm still having trouble with formatting. Please bear with me~

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

vote: FrozenFlame
ya ok boomer
explain to me how NAI and not worried somehow clash as thoughts
also, that wall provides me with nothing


in what way? you can't read me on replacing out
I would never claim to replace in thread
and I would not hinder my replacement in any way
I think my attitude changes a bit for stuff like lost wolves, and 3p factions, but like factionless 3ps, unless perfectly balanced, either have the game revolve around them being way too strong, or they are just too weak.


I am trying to see worlds where this is tonally not fake, but I don't see it yet

one post skyrocketed you to like 90% likeliness to flip wolf, hot damn

actually on second thought id rather see how ff responds to this before making direct responses etc. i get a pretty null read from ff from his post because while i do think some of his logic in his read on rhand and other things line up with my thoughts, i do agree that the way he said some things felt... off, and i dont have a better word for it. to be fair, his rant at you about the replacing thing is dead in line with his meta and that is utterly null coming from him.

 

[ExLight]

There's been a lot of conflict, so I'm surprised they haven't "found anything that pinged them" yet.

I’m still laying in bed tryina get the courage to sit on the PC and read all this nonsense sigh

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

detective mao is so cute ~~
theres no way she can be mafia :3

Detective Mao im here sup

 

[Rhand]

LHF means Low Hanging Fruit.

i actually didnt consider that when i was reading you. can you elaborate on this point, what post did you make that you think people are misinterpreting? beyond that, i think there’s a degree to which im willing to trust other players reads on a player if i dont know either of them in general. like what if im just better than both of them and youre scum?

also im right to remember that english not being your native language didnt come up in thread, right?

i think it boils down to the fact that youre reacting really poorly to swiss’ pressure, whether youre town or scum. swiss’ play for a majority of page 1 was clearly bouncing off the nervous energy in your posts. i was doing the same thing and then you called me ****ing opportunistic. like yea bro what an opportunity, to put you at l-5 within a page. reactionary playstyles in and of themselves arent scummy, but your reactivity to the fairly benign things being thrown at you is what strikes at least me as scummy play.

I don’t think my native tongue has come up before, no.
The post is when I first reacted to Swiss’ vote on me. It gets tone-read as nervous or defensive left and right and it really wasn’t.
You placed an unexplained vote on a growing wagon. That is the definition of an opportunistic vote.

Read the interaction between me and Swiss again assuming that my first reaction to his vote was meant as a joke. Do you really not see where my scum read on him came from?

 

[Detective Mao]

Hi!!

Whysper can die too but I wanna see what your read is on rhand based off this page

one thing that tips me off is the way whysper entered the game, the “I hope this isn’t 5 days of RVS” post. Not rvsing there but acknowledging it feels awkward, but it could just be a clash in tone bla bla bla. Not enough for me to wanna put a vote.

I caught this while re-reading the thread, and there seems to be a disconnection between the strength of your read between these two posts. It's a small thing, but I just wanted to clarify it. I heard others say your tone seems like V!Gorf and your other takes aren't bad, so I don't really feel the need to focus you, but I would appreciate if you answered this^^

 

[Rhand]

Vote Wam

 

[Detective Mao]

Oh yeah, I should probably move my vote. Rhand hasn't done anything that has actually pinged me as scummy or towny yet, but regardless of Wiisp's alignment, I'm willing to believe him when he says they haven't done anything that would scream W!Rhand as they both come from the same site.

Vote: Wiisp

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

can live

(13)Gorf
(14)Detective Mao
(12)Eido
(4)Scarlet Rage
(6)Swiss
(10)Chaco
(2) ExLight
(5)Wam
(1) 3DSNinja
(3)gellnick
(9)FrozenFlame
(11)Whysper
(7)Wiisp
(8)Rhand

can die

Read the interaction between me and Swiss again assuming that my first reaction to his vote was meant as a joke. Do you really not see where my scum read on him came from?

i will give it time to read the first page again with the pretense that you were being sarcastic, but i still dont think that changes how i feel about how you continued to react beyond your initial impression of his vote. maybe it isnt a lie that the vote itself bothered you, but the being bothered beyond that is still strange to me. i will reread it, but i also lived it. you were acting funny, and you continued to act funny. your second post made me ready to vote, and as you kept going i felt reassured by my conviction.

Detective Mao i was just giving off initial impressions in the first quote, and that initial impression wouldve been better understood and fleshed out had whysper come in and continued playing, but she has since not come in. i still remember my initial impression and have that in my mind, but its just kind of my style. i rely on people to come to the conclusion that im not actually ready to make strong reads and ready to end the Day based off 1 post in the first page within the first 12 hours. it was a feeler

 

[Swiss]

I actually like Rhand #245.


vote: wiisp

 

[Chaco]

Lol ok.
He said this: “ At least one of rhand and swiss are scum. ”
And that’s a problem. He did it when casting suspicion on me. Fights like these are more often TvT than not. Looking at it from an outsider’s view and coming to that conclusion without giving any sign that he has reasons to suspect us both separately is mafia mindset.

I am trying to vote him but the bolding is somehow deactivated on my mobile.
Is there code I can use?

This! I saw this as plausible and one other thing, it’s opposing SvS and SR is traitor trying to shift to other avenues. That’s tinfoil theory at the moment though.

SRs push is interesting cause it began off of a single post with nothing inherent about it. Swiss is just trying to push reactions off of it cause he thinks he could get some traction. I don’t believe SR is aligned with you Rhand from the way it was presented and defended. But interaction is weird and just slimy to me overall. It’s so nitpicky and then hands off. I don’t see shifting focus and such a hard segue off of one post likely unless there’s masked motive.

Addressed your above question to me here as well and kind’ve lump summed it. Not hard set either way but I would lean you as more town here than SR but I don’t believe you abide the same faction. I know that sounds crazy, but I’ll miss the blatant stuff and then pick up TvT, TvS, SvS interactions and nail them.

Wiisp I am interested in that read. I asked you about yourself because it’s gonna help me with your read of FF. You remind me of Osie play wise from what I’ve seen thus far, and that’s interesting cause of the way FF entered, Osie drilled him on that early game D1 for that type of behavior a few games back and the similarities are making me think it’s plausible. Especially with him calling me town so early when he’s always skeptical of me snowing him as town. Like I said, could be overthinking that but he’s seen me as town a ton lately so it could be familiarity cause my town game is super easy to read, and he hasn’t had to face the possibility of me snowing him.

 

[Detective Mao]

Detective Mao i was just giving off initial impressions in the first quote, and that initial impression wouldve been better understood and fleshed out had whysper come in and continued playing, but she has since not come in. i still remember my initial impression and have that in my mind, but its just kind of my style. i rely on people to come to the conclusion that im not actually ready to make strong reads and ready to end the Day based off 1 post in the first page within the first 12 hours. it was a feeler

Alright, that makes sense. Thank you for answering!

 

[Chaco]

Continuing on with Swiss he’s just trying to have people kick the goads to get reads. He’s fine for now.

 

[Rhand]

Chaco that is why it bothers me that you call what SR did chainsawing: it can ONLY be a chainsaw if I am aligned with SR. And for that to be true, you should want my flip always before sorting SR. You now think we are not aligned. What changed between when you said that and now?

 

[Wiisp]

Rhand
at what point do I claim my PR to follow suit with the usual premature wisp town play?

 

[Wiisp]

not really interested in playing with potatoes honestly

Chaco
I am nothing like Osie, because 1, I am a better town player
and if that is a typical town!Frozen opening then the hard body crew is actually lacking in the skill department

 

[Wiisp]

There is 0 reason why we should be bottlenecking the PoE this early with so many easy town reads, and baseless pushes

 

[Scarlet Rage]

I'll be afk at least until tonight.

 

[Wiisp]

if one more person calls me a wolf, I am just going to claim and move on from this thread for a bit, since the continuing play so far, has not actually made me want to continue trying

 

[Wiisp]

Rhand
same **** everywhere I go, can't last even day 1, without this overbearing expectation forcing me to always out my role, since it seems to be the only thing that gives me peace to solve games.

 

[Rhand]

Rhand
at what point do I claim my PR to follow suit with the usual premature wisp town play?

You know how much I dislike early unprompted claims lol. Don’t.

 

[Wiisp]

Nah these people need to stop trying to solve the entire game day 1, and actually read my posts
how the hell does it go from me trying to tell everyone that you have done only NAI ****, to me being a wolf?
like someone here tell me, why I have 2 votes on me

y'all are nuts

I have also already had someone say they are ignoring my posts

 

[Rhand]

Nah these people need to stop trying to solve the entire game day 1, and actually read my posts
how the hell does it go from me trying to tell everyone that you have done only NAI ****, to me being a wolf?
like someone here tell me, why I have 2 votes on me

y'all are nuts

I have also already had someone say they are ignoring my posts

That someone apparently is the bestest player ever