Lumine Hall - Ness Video and Critique Thread

[BTVolta]

Hey Ness boards, I've some old stream videos from a day 2 wii u tourney I joined and want some outside opinions on what to improve on, particularly the D3 match up.
twitch .tv/videogamerescue/b/591640035
1;41;00
twitch .tv/videogamerescue/b/591679417
00;00(continuation of last game)
36;00
57;30
1;33;20
1;44;00

 

[Noa.]

Those links don't work. Which tournament in Florida did you go to? :V

 

[BTVolta]

At video game rescue in Jax and you have to remove the spaces in twitch and .tv. I don't have 10 posts yet.

 

[Waael]

Good job getting that far with those characters around!

Thanks! I found out the day after the tournament that Ness can heal off of Sheik's Vanish and Diddy Kong's Recovery, I'm going to try that next time!

 

[PSIBoy]

Thanks! I found out the day after the tournament that Ness can heal off of Sheik's Vanish and Diddy Kong's Recovery, I'm going to try that next time!

WHAT!? He can... Heal from those attacks!? I was surprised enough that he can heal from exploding bombs, but now this? I guess it would be logical though, considering they are kind of explosive in nature.

 

[Noa.]

So two of my matches tonight were played on stream. I'll post them here. Don't mind the mediocre commentary. They're not very knowledgeable about Smash 4. If you wanna watch both they lead right into each other.

First set. Loser's Semis Vs Cody Sheik/Mario

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/595102527?t=2h51m24s

Second set. Loser's finals vs Plup Rosalina

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/595102527?t=2h57m57s

Any advice or comments are welcome.

 

[Conda]

Sonic vs Ness, first game in a Grand Grand Finals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsoOYe3ERDg&list=UU-KuWeJ48G6rPA2lCgQirew

+ Game 2

 

[neomadgic]

So two of my matches tonight were played on stream. I'll post them here. Don't mind the mediocre commentary. They're not very knowledgeable about Smash 4. If you wanna watch both they lead right into each other.

First set. Loser's Semis Vs Cody Sheik/Mario

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/595102527?t=2h51m24s

Second set. Loser's finals vs Plup Rosalina

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/595102527?t=2h57m57s

Any advice or comments are welcome.

Draconoa - You are a great Ness player! :D. your style resembles a lot like mine. Your ness is pretty much on point. Great offensive pressure game . Congrats on placing !

I watched parts of your shiek video and all your rosalinas. I love your pk thunder juggle against Shiek. It was very effective and he had no answer for it. Your Rosalina matchup was a bit harder. And I think there were a few things I would work on in that matchup. First off, like your shiek matchup, you relied heavily on pk thunder juggle. It worked well against shiek, but not so much against Rosalina. Rosalina has a lot of options against pk thunder juggle, like grabbing it. But this rosalina was mainly dodging them, and then punishing you. Ness's big advantage against Rosalina is his aerial game. There was a big string on Smashville that you juggled Rosalina multiple times using your aerials. THAT is effective! I wanted to see more of that.

Also, Rosalina's upb has no hitbox. I wanted to see some aerial ledge guard but all I saw was pk thunder ledge guard. I feel like these are missed opportunities because if you were able to hit with some aerials, you could potentially gimp Rosalina. The best case scenario for pk thunder is just extra damage.

One last thing. This is also really hard for me to do too, but as Ness players, we are naturally really aggressive. We love to nail our combos, and we usually dive balls deep in. However, try to slow it down a bit, let Rosalina do the approaching and try to make the action come to you. This is the hardest thing for me to do, but it's usually a really good option.

 

[Noa.]

Draconoa - You are a great Ness player! :D. your style resembles a lot like mine. Your ness is pretty much on point. Great offensive pressure game . Congrats on placing !

I watched parts of your shiek video and all your rosalinas. I love your pk thunder juggle against Shiek. It was very effective and he had no answer for it. Your Rosalina matchup was a bit harder. And I think there were a few things I would work on in that matchup. First off, like your shiek matchup, you relied heavily on pk thunder juggle. It worked well against shiek, but not so much against Rosalina. Rosalina has a lot of options against pk thunder juggle, like grabbing it. But this rosalina was mainly dodging them, and then punishing you. Ness's big advantage against Rosalina is his aerial game. There was a big string on Smashville that you juggled Rosalina multiple times using your aerials. THAT is effective! I wanted to see more of that.

Also, Rosalina's upb has no hitbox. I wanted to see some aerial ledge guard but all I saw was pk thunder ledge guard. I feel like these are missed opportunities because if you were able to hit with some aerials, you could potentially gimp Rosalina. The best case scenario for pk thunder is just extra damage.

One last thing. This is also really hard for me to do too, but as Ness players, we are naturally really aggressive. We love to nail our combos, and we usually dive balls deep in. However, try to slow it down a bit, let Rosalina do the approaching and try to make the action come to you. This is the hardest thing for me to do, but it's usually a really good option.

Thanks for the advice. I will take it all into consideration.

Personally what I found held me back the most this tournament was my mechanics. My reaction speed was pretty low and I mispaced a lot of my moves. Sometimes my pk thunders were not as tight at they could be. I have to work more on getting my character to do exactly what I want them to do. That just means I need more practice.

 

[Luco]

Hey guys, so the vids from my tournament were finally uploaded, feel free to check them out if you so desire. =D

Came first in this one (My first tournament win!!)! It was great, there were about 40 entrants and there was swiss rounds followed by a top 8 bracket, so here you, go, copy-pasting from another part of the boards:

Found them! Shaya uploaded these to his channel some time ago.

So I apologise for the bad-ish sound quality, but the video can be seen quite well, so for any of you that haven't seen it; here's my tournament play :D

http://www.twitch.tv/hiyashaya/b/591785343

This is part of a long stream detailing most of the matches that were played on the day with the exception of bracket sets. To see me, go to these points:

18:20 - Me (Ness) vs Gords (Villager) - swiss rounds

Around 1:25:00 is a friendly doubles match where I use Bowser jr (it gets cut short by EA who had to go play a match though )

2:08:25 - Me (Ness) vs Zxv (Sheik, DDD) - this set was SCARY

http://www.twitch.tv/hiyashaya/b/591829444

That's the next part of it, this set covered bracket with was 3 stock instead of 2.

46:32 - Me (Ness) vs. Zorsy (Yoshi)

--

NOW, for the big two sets!

http://www.twitch.tv/hiyashaya/c/5551687

This^ :

Winners finals - Me (Ness) vs Shaya (Marth/Falco) - HYPE

And finally...

http://www.twitch.tv/hiyashaya/c/5551731

Grand finals - Me (Ness) vs Zero/'kira' (ZSS) - EVEN MOAR HYPE <3

There you go, feel free to check it out!! :DDD

EDIT: And with that, I must sleep... =3

 

[Noa.]

Lol I thought you played shays in grand finals. I can't watch it now but I'll watch it when I get the chance later.

 

[ilysm]

Yo, did anybody see Awestin at Shockwave 8 a while back? He's repping Ness super super well (Awestin's also probably one of the best if not the best Ness in Project M). I'm pretty sure he won the tournament; took out a Diddy, a Sonic, and a Rosa to get there, too. Here's the playlist. Pretty nice stuff, and props to Awestin.


(there might even by a PK Flash kill somewhere in there pssst pssst)

 

[Conda]

Really cool set, grand-grand finals after bracket reset. Intense stuff! Think there's 1 or two matches left to be uploaded from that set.

 

[Noa.]

Hey Ness boards, I've some old stream videos from a day 2 wii u tourney I joined and want some outside opinions on what to improve on, particularly the D3 match up.
twitch .tv/videogamerescue/b/591640035
1;41;00
twitch .tv/videogamerescue/b/591679417
00;00(continuation of last game)
36;00
57;30
1;33;20
1;44;00

Ok so I'm getting to these pretty late but I just found the time to watch them.

Generally speaking your tech skill can just be polished. Tighter triple fairs to make it more difficult for your opponent to escape from and not sding and all. That just comes from playing the game more. So just more practice to fix that.

There were a lot of opportunities were zss whiffed or made a mistake and you could've punished with a dash grab but you didn't. It's important to realize these moments as our grab game is remarkable. Dthrow gets us more combos, fthrow gets us pk thunder juggles, and bthrow kills. It can't be understated how important it is to recognize the opportunities for a dash grab punish.

Pivot pk fire is a great way to punish a zss's dash grab.

When you grab someone over 100 always always pummel a couple times to wrack that percentage up. It's very important to help ensure that bthrow kills.

ZSS landed on a platform with lag and you punished with nair instead of uair even though uair would've killed. It's important to recognize the opportunities where we can get kills.

You airdodged into the ground and DDD killed you poor thing lol air dodging to the the ground is horrendous in this game because it has so much ending lag. You should never do it.

Every time ddd lands from the air that's a free pk fire. Pk fire is great at punishing landings and this is exceptionally easy because DDD is so big.

You dthrew DDD twice and both times went for uair. You could've double or triple fair'd him both times. It loooked like it wouldn't hvae hit, but DDD is so big that fair would've landed.

So when your opponent is landing from the air a good option is to run up to them and shield. If they attack you, you shield grab. If they airdodge into the ground, you shieldgrab. If they are about to land onto the ground and have not started an aerial yet you can shield grab before they can retaliate. Running up and shielding to a landing opponent is a free grab in many cases.

You landed a pk fire and instead of dash grabbing you fair'd him. Dash grabbing would net you a bigger reward.

Generally speaking you were jumping into DDD a lot. You have to be careful doing that as his hammer outranges it by a lot. You need to cautiously jump against him. Relying on dash attack, dash grab, and pk fire is good enough to beat DDD.

Ok you've done dthrow to uair so many times now. You make me cry a little when you do. Against DDD it's almost always guaranteed that we get a dthrow to fair.

You're rolling around a lot. It's quite predictable and the DDD player punished you for it multiple times. Sometimes you would shield a laggy move, and instead of trying to shield grab, nair oos, or drop shield punish, you rolled. Rolling when someone attacks your shield is almost always a bad idea.

You should avoid using bthrow if you don't think it's gonna kill and they're above 70%. You want bthrow to be really fresh, especially against a heavy character like DDD.

And now I've skipped straight to the villager video.

At percents that are too high to combo with dthrow, and too low to kill with bthrow, you should always go for fthrow or uthrow. Both do a lot of damage and both can setup for pk thunder juggles and can give you a lot of stage control.

The timing on dthrow fair is pretty strict. You usually have to start the fair before you actually arrive at the opponent. It's important that the last few hits of fair hit them. Not all have to connect to get fair strings. And stop going for dthrow uair when fair is possible lol.

If villager decides to recover by getting on the lloyd rocket, you can relfect the rocket with fsmash and he'll auto die lol.

When opponents are spamming spotdodge against you use jab. Jab beats out spotdodges.

You roll a lot. And get punished for it a lot.

Anyways you made it very far into the tournament and that's awesome. Congrats on doing so well. This was a day 2 wii u tournament so it makes sense that you would make so many mistakes. I'm sure you've fixed most of them by now. I also live in Florida so if you ever see me say hi!

Hey guys, so the vids from my tournament were finally uploaded, feel free to check them out if you so desire. =D

Came first in this one (My first tournament win!!)! It was great, there were about 40 entrants and there was swiss rounds followed by a top 8 bracket, so here you, go, copy-pasting from another part of the boards:

This was very fun to watch. I enjoyed all your matches. Your Ness is just so good lol.

 

[BTVolta]

If villager decides to recover by getting on the lloyd rocket, you can relfect the rocket with fsmash and he'll auto die lol.

Are you being literal?!lol.
Any way thank you so much; I just played at my weekly and got 4th out of 17. Hoping to improve even more with this advice.

 

[Noa.]

That's awesome lol. Keep playing.

And villager does like just die lol.

Hopefully we'll meet sometime

 

[Conda]

Final match in a grand-grand-finals set is uploaded! FYI These were the official r/smashbros reddit Wii U Release tournament, with 100 or so entrants. A REALLY big tournament. Feel free to check out the rest of the matches I've uploaded from that tournament.

Was super exciting to watch and commentate, thanks for the support. I hope to host and commentate many many more tournaments and events.

 

[Crimson Child]

We were both kinda drunk when we played these matches, but everybody knows Norwegians are at their top level when drunk. I used to think Villager was an impossible matchup for Ness, but after figuring out his stuff, I figured it was wasn't as bad as I though it was.
I used to main Lucas in Brawl. As the closest thing to Lucas, I'm thinking of moving on to Ness in Smash 4.

 

[ilysm]

Hey, it's Crimson Child! I remember seeing your Lucas videos a while back, when I was using both the PK kids in Brawl! Your Lucas was really good. I can't watch the whole set right now, but it's pretty clear you used to main Lucas; you're in a very Lucas-y mindset, if that makes any sense. Your use of PK Fire to space out Villager's fair is understandable. I can't help but feel there might be better options, but I'm drawing a blank. You do use PK Fire a ton. Really, though, I can see why you do. Villager's fair is crazy and Hudet approaches with it constantly. I'm a little stumped.

That said, I really like your use of fsmash to reflect the Loid Rocket back at Villager, and your lag-cancelled Pk Fire game. You're the first person I've seen do that often, and you utilize it to great effect. Lag-Cancelled Pk Fire from the air can lead into grabs and other followups, and you do that really effectively. Nice to see you playing Smash 4 as well! Do hope you pick up Ness.

 

[Noa.]

Crimson Child you are using sh pk fire way too often. Grounded pk fire or pivot pk fire is better in almost all ways. They aren't telegraphed by short hopping straight up into the air completely out of the range of our other aerials, they go farther and have more range, and are a lot easier to follow up on. It's a lot easier to land a dash grab when you hit a grounded pk fire than when you hit a short hop one. Short hop pk fires are good for a mixup but are not your bread and butter move.

Villager fair is really only effective at hitting opponents who jump or very tall characters. You jumped so often in range of villager's fair which lead to you getting hit by it very often.

 

[Crimson Child]

I should mention that all the sh PKF were supposed to be full hops xD I have no idea why I keep getting short jumps all the time. This was the first time we played together on the Wii U and Villager was the character I had the most problems with on the 3ds, so I'm still kinda scared of approaching him.

 

[Asa]

Another thing, draco: in those matches, you tended to land with bair (hitting their shield) a lot after nairing. This is a great opportunity to land a grab, as they seem to be conditioned to shield your bair already. In general you weren't maximizing your punishes as often as you should

 

[Noa.]

Another thing, draco: in those matches, you tended to land with bair (hitting their shield) a lot after nairing. This is a great opportunity to land a grab, as they seem to be conditioned to shield your bair already. In general you weren't maximizing your punishes as often as you should

Yeah I have a bad habit of always landing with aerials. I was trying to break my habit today in friendlies. I really need to stop always landing with an aerial. Just landing a grabbing would be so potent.

 

[Asa]

Watched the plup set one more time.. You need to hold your ground a lot more, your rolls were getting read quite often from the ledge and when you felt like you needed some space. Were you panicking when he hit you offstage on the last stock (smashville)? If you had immediately gone to pkt2 the ledge, jumped to the smashville platform, or naired instead of airdodging (where you got hit by fsmash), you would've been in much better shape.

And why does the commentator say "boys" so often lol it's really weird

 

[Noa.]

Idk the commentator is not too good. meh lol

I felt like I was playing pretty poorly that tournament and it upsets me that I made so many mistakes. I rolled a lot and I got punished by plup quite often for it. I airdodged to the stage because I thought he was going to try to hit me with an aerial to edgeguard me. He instead went for an fsmash and I got punished severely. He just made a good read.

 

[KingCesar]

Quick 0 to Death sequence I manage to do.

 

[LiteralGrill]

These are all of the matches with Ness from a recent Hypest Tournament. I figured I'd pop em in here in case folks wanted to watch!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-FgJYphG4c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eXqgHMOrV0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH_2-l3Om1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFB_u9tyBs4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6gbxQ8kUDY

 

[Noa.]

I haven't clicked on the videos. Who's Ness is it?

EDIT: Ok I see now it's Kodystri. I don't recognize any of these players except phuzix. Phuzix is a Florida sheik player. Where was this tournament? I'm interested lol.

 

[neomadgic]

I haven't clicked on the videos. Who's Ness is it?

EDIT: Ok I see now it's Kodystri. I don't recognize any of these players except phuzix. Phuzix is a Florida sheik player. Where was this tournament? I'm interested lol.

Judging from his signature. I'm assuming it's online tourney. I like watching offline videos because you don't have to factor in the input lag.

 

[Bubbleman_Nsider]

I have several videos I'd like to share.

http://youtu.be/X7_XCRvmiSo
http://youtu.be/WmpOg9t8PCI
http://youtu.be/Mcp1Lyzry4s
http://youtu.be/9CW0_rRJMtg
http://youtu.be/w_gzNOxvn-E

 

[Noa.]

Judging from his signature. I'm assuming it's online tourney. I like watching offline videos because you don't have to factor in the input lag.

Yeah I don't tend to watch online tourneys. Especially if there was no money involved. Without money it's hard to take the results of a tournament seriously.

 

[an1bal]

So two of my matches tonight were played on stream. I'll post them here. Don't mind the mediocre commentary. They're not very knowledgeable about Smash 4. If you wanna watch both they lead right into each other.

First set. Loser's Semis Vs Cody Sheik/Mario

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/595102527?t=2h51m24s

Second set. Loser's finals vs Plup Rosalina

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/595102527?t=2h57m57s

Any advice or comments are welcome.

I enjoyed those. I can learn from the way you use your up b's. I use PK flash way too much as an edgeguard.

ANd yea, that one commentator reaalllly sucked.

 

[Noa.]

I enjoyed those. I can learn from the way you use your up b's. I use PK flash way too much as an edgeguard.

ANd yea, that one commentator reaalllly sucked.

I'm glad you enjoyed them. Pk flash is practically useless and pk thunder is an awesome edge guard tool.

 

[Conda]

I've got a video guide on Smash 4's PK Jump coming up! Look forward to it

 

[Asa]

I have several videos I'd like to share.

http://youtu.be/X7_XCRvmiSo
http://youtu.be/WmpOg9t8PCI
http://youtu.be/Mcp1Lyzry4s
http://youtu.be/9CW0_rRJMtg
http://youtu.be/w_gzNOxvn-E

against eval's sheik, there isn't much use in backrolling against sheik in neutral.. you just kept getting pelted with needles. You may want to save your bthrow for kill percents as well. Sheik could've died much earlier if you are keeping it fresh.

against MPD's sheik, (and against sheik in general) pkf is a pretty risky move since she can punish you pretty hard for it. double jump pkf gimmicks are easy to predict and not hard to block on reaction, so i would refrain from doing those much. Also remember that fair out of dthrow, while guaranteed at lower percents, isn't there all the time, so don't go for it all the time. I would've liked to have seen more followups on his landings instead of flying affter him with fairs.

 

[Funkermonster]

A Tournament Match I had last weekend, looking for advice on how to improve my game.

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingzoneaz/b/598881612 Game starts at 6:01 and I'm Funker Monster, the Ness with the Pink Hat.

If this isn't enough, I can upload more videos later today from For Glory. Switching to Ness in a ditto was probably a horrible idea for me though, probably should've stuck with my actual mains.

 

[Asa]

yeah should've stayed gren. your ness was respecting his jumps way too much, he should've gotten punished for those pk fires.

should pay more attention to how they recover as well.. 682 would double jump and atk every time he was coming back, which ended up in your death at the end. just hold shiellldddd

 

[Conda]

Final uploads from the official r/smashbros tournament I commentated:

Ness v Rosa set:

Ness v PacMan set:

 

[Soshii]

I recently started playing Earthbound and got a capture card, so I thought this would be a good opportunity to post some random Ness matches I had on For Glory for some criticism. I picked him up a couple of days ago because of my new obligation to the Mother series (and my grab-heavy playstyle with other characters) but I'm intending on solely working on him as a main so PLEASE give me some advice. I won't make any excuses for my mistakes other than the lag messing up some of my pivot grabs and techs from his side B, so please tear me apart and tell me what I should improve on to get better. Thanks guys. (maybe also tell me how the quality is, I'm still playing around with settings)

(still processing atm)

 

[Funkermonster]

yeah should've stayed gren. your ness was respecting his jumps way too much, he should've gotten punished for those pk fires.

should pay more attention to how they recover as well.. 682 would double jump and atk every time he was coming back, which ended up in your death at the end. just hold shiellldddd

I guess.... switching Ness like that was not one of my best ideas. But how do I punish his jumped PK Fires? I kept respecting his jumps since I couldn't find a reliable way to punish them due to being tunnel-visioned and unaware of my full list of options. Wanna know so I remember that for that next time I go to a tournament...... if I ever even use Ness in a tournament again that is.