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Luigi Versus The World: A New Luigi Matchup Discussion
- Thread starter SparkEd
- Start date
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
I agree with A2. Mario's Dsmash is most definitly noticeabley with range. Espically when it comes from the back. Also if you notice Mario's whole body is on the floor and Luigi's isn't so I guess techanically Marios better in range. Mario's smashs in terms of range > Luigi's (?)
And Mario can do a DAC better than Hyphen smash wtf? Why didn't I think of that? LOL.
Mario can angle his Fsmash for mindgames as well. I believe a upangle has more slighter up trajacktory (can't spell lol).
Eh I'm abit lost, where are we in the matchup discussion or are we doing a free for all any matchup we want? O_O. Btw, Spark, to save energy and time, you can always copy some of my posts and others. Just sayin'
ALiAsVee
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2008
- Messages
- 739
Trajectory? lol. But yeah i did some looking into it and it has more range...xD. I geuss i never really looked too hard into because Luigi was the taller bro, so i thought he would make more use of his legs, plus he jumps higher, shouldn't he have longer more flexible legs? O_o. Anyways, i am confused too, i don't think we should do a free for all discussion, because i don't think we will get much out of it as opposed to dedicated ones. :/
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
I looked at your matchup thread, it doesn't seem to have a explantion, errr mind explaining please?
Alright then I'll get working real quick on the Peach matchup I need to get my friend to post since I'm effin lazy for now lolz. Btw did those matchup ratings come from the top of your head? o_o; Cause last time I checked 30:70 Falco is haxs. To me its like a 70:30 Luigi's favor rofl.
Also for the Luigi ditto, you can also add to it that look for openings, don't miss a shoryuken at higher %s or else you'll get shoryuken'd lol.
LuigiKing
Smash Lord
Haha, there is no way Yoshi is 50:50 with Luigi, just no way. I'll provide my own long, boring explanation when we officially get to Yoshi, but until then... you all know Luigi has the advantage anyway.
On the side note of Peach, I think Luigi actually may have a disadvantage, but then again I have only played against one outstanding Peach, and that really biases my opinion... Urgh, I'll come back after I do my research.
On the side note of Peach, I think Luigi actually may have a disadvantage, but then again I have only played against one outstanding Peach, and that really biases my opinion... Urgh, I'll come back after I do my research.
PrinceMarthX
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2008
- Messages
- 258
They cancel each other out.
ALiAsVee
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2008
- Messages
- 739
>_>. I knew that, i thought i could make a joke out of it...like those chuck norris jokes where is chuck fought his clone and they both did a roundhouse...the universe would end...
Nvm...
PolMex23
Smash Champion
Who we on now so i can put my 2 cents in//... xD
OMG I leave for a week and then come back to find awesome posts on the boards. Awesome stuff you have here sparkEd and if I find the time I'll be sure to help out.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
Ahh yes the pink girl who claims shes a heir to the throne and yet Luigi gets no girls like her. Well we'll make a change to that. My friend who I always fight everyday is a great Peach user it's a pretty interesting matchup. Let's get down to the facts.
~ Overview ~
Peach is floaty, she rivals you in terms of comboing in the air. Sure she has alot crappy KO options, but her ability to aerial combo game and solid ground game makes up for that. Also her aerials auto cancel, making it harder to punish, so powershielding in this is more of a must. You can edgeguard her well but she also has a solid edgeguard game. I reckon' you watch this girl out, Mario's girl can pack a punch in the air.
~ Approach ~
Peach can be tricky at approaching because her turnips cancel out your tornado. She can just float her way out of fireballs. The downside is that she has crap approachs. She'll usually have a turnip in her hand to throw you offguard. They generally love to go with a Dair. Their Dair can eat out our shield quick too. Once your caught in it, they'll follow up with a Nair/Upair. It does alot of quick damage so don't fall into it.
Another approach they'll do is a Fair. It's one of her hardest approachs to punish, its a killer ko move too. It also auto cancels making it harder to punish. Generally they'll just use a Fair, space it perfectly, and follow up with a jab/Ftilt. She also approachs with a glide-toss turnip so becareful.
+ Luigi still have some tricks in arsenal to combat these. Most likely she'll be floating the whole time. So you can use one of your anti-aerial attacks (utilt, upsmash, SH fireballs work wonders). Of course she'll throw a turnip, you can easily airdodge or use a aerial to catch it and throw it back at her. That way her glide toss is rendered crap.
+ Her Fair approach is hardest punish. Unless they spaced it crap (giving you a chance to shield grab) You'll have to power shield it, because Fair is strong enough to push you back. Also don't try to fireball her when she uses Fair. It cancels it, and probably any attack your about to bust out.
+ SH retreating fireball walls work wonders here. It'll force her to approach you must of the time.
+ A tornado approach still works, but her turnips cancel it. A SH fireball to tornado to throw off her is still good.
+ Classic Dair/Fair to Nair still works for combo starters.
~ Patterns and Moves ~
Peach does certainly have a good pattern. They like to start of with glide tosses turnips to generally force you. She can camp well, but you can outcamp her, since you can fire fireballs faster then her. During low %s they'll look for a Dair spam. It'll try to eat your shield as much as possible. Don't let that happen. They can get to a Dair > Nair/upair > and at lower %s she might possibly land a utilt/upsmash after the upair.
When your falling on to the stage, she'll look for oppunity to upsmash because of the sweetspot it has. If you do shield her Fair, she'll likely to follow up with a jab/ftilt so she won't be punished. But since it auto cancels she can follow up with just about anything.
~ Style adjustments ~
Luigi overpowers Peach in terms of offense and defense. If the momentum of the match turns in her favor, you can always adjust to the defensive by quickly throwing retreating SH fireball walls and look for a opening.
~ Ground tactics ~
Peach doesn't have outstanding ground tactics but the come out alot after her airgame. If your behind her, she'll most likely do a Dsmash, but it has poor knockback it won't kill after 180%s+. Her Dtilt can spike if your hanging on the ledge so becareful. Ftilt sends you up and her jab comes out quick after a Fair. Her peach bomber does a quite a knockback but won't be generally used alot, has alot of ending lag.
~ Air tactics ~
This is where things get sticky. You both have great airgame, great combo potential.
As I state earlier above, Peach will Dair to eat shields, follow up with a Nair/Upair, giving a quick 40%. And maybe after that, they'll try to pull off a hyphen upsmash as it has a sweet spot. Her Fair auto cancels, hard to punish, generally to approach, and kill, you MUST power shield it, and react quickly after it since it does auto cancel. Possibly her Fair outranges your Bair. Also don't go after peach if your directly below her [duh]. It's either equal terms of range or slight advantage of range in terms of aerials. [Correct me if i'm wrong]
~ Edgeguarding ~
Peach actually does pretty solidly in here. She can float her way towards you, do any aerial to Ko you or such. She can throw a turnip on the way, to mess gimp our recovery, she can use Toad to counter your green missle (I got killed by toad when I got a misfire LOL.) She can do a Dsmash to apply pressure, and stagespike you if you hang on to the edge too long. She can float and regrab the edge pretty quick giving her more invinciblity frames.
Well for Luigi, it's a matter of being careful because, if their at a high %s and you land a green missle to their face while their trying to edgeguard you, they'll be stage spiked, ko'd, or possibly a misfire to their face. So, aim for the sweetspot with a green missle, if their floating, just either aim for them, or half charge it, and gimp them on the way back. Of course, if your forced to use rising tornado recovery, be careful of that too, Dair, and turnips outprioritize your tornado. But while doing the recovery, trying getting them caught in the tornado so that they'll be sent to a offstage angle.
Well for Luigi to edgeguard is abit tricky. You'll want to force her vertical ko. She has great horizontal recovery but a bad vertical recovery. Fireball walls for pressure works great. Aerials still do work wonders if your in range and careful. Bair stage spikes will work at higher %s. A rising tornado can send her in a offstage angle.
~ Kill options ~
This is where the real difference between Luigi and Peach. Shes a floaty and dies pretty early. A shoryuken kills her around the 50%s, a fresh Fsmash, kills her in early 90%s, a hyphen upsmash works secksay since she's a floaty and has slow fall speed, Nair is still beastly for higher %s, Bthrow, when near end of stage 100%+, Bair for the kicks. Wow I can't name anymore Luigi is a real Ko machine lol.
As for Peach, she generally has a hard time killing since she'll be using Fair alot and will be affected by move decay. Ftilt will kill you at higher %s around 140%s~. Her upsmash sweetspot kills you pretty early at 100%s, her Fsmash is beast depending which one it is. All her other aerials work too.
Overall post: Both are great in air game, they are decent combo kings and queens ( xD ) and solid ground game. But the true difference between this matchup is kill options and defensive camping by Luigi and her lack of approachs from Peach
Overall rating: 60-40 in Luigi's favor. (Although you can always put a 55:45 if you want )
~ Overview ~
Peach is floaty, she rivals you in terms of comboing in the air. Sure she has alot crappy KO options, but her ability to aerial combo game and solid ground game makes up for that. Also her aerials auto cancel, making it harder to punish, so powershielding in this is more of a must. You can edgeguard her well but she also has a solid edgeguard game. I reckon' you watch this girl out, Mario's girl can pack a punch in the air.
~ Approach ~
Peach can be tricky at approaching because her turnips cancel out your tornado. She can just float her way out of fireballs. The downside is that she has crap approachs. She'll usually have a turnip in her hand to throw you offguard. They generally love to go with a Dair. Their Dair can eat out our shield quick too. Once your caught in it, they'll follow up with a Nair/Upair. It does alot of quick damage so don't fall into it.
Another approach they'll do is a Fair. It's one of her hardest approachs to punish, its a killer ko move too. It also auto cancels making it harder to punish. Generally they'll just use a Fair, space it perfectly, and follow up with a jab/Ftilt. She also approachs with a glide-toss turnip so becareful.
+ Luigi still have some tricks in arsenal to combat these. Most likely she'll be floating the whole time. So you can use one of your anti-aerial attacks (utilt, upsmash, SH fireballs work wonders). Of course she'll throw a turnip, you can easily airdodge or use a aerial to catch it and throw it back at her. That way her glide toss is rendered crap.
+ Her Fair approach is hardest punish. Unless they spaced it crap (giving you a chance to shield grab) You'll have to power shield it, because Fair is strong enough to push you back. Also don't try to fireball her when she uses Fair. It cancels it, and probably any attack your about to bust out.
+ SH retreating fireball walls work wonders here. It'll force her to approach you must of the time.
+ A tornado approach still works, but her turnips cancel it. A SH fireball to tornado to throw off her is still good.
+ Classic Dair/Fair to Nair still works for combo starters.
~ Patterns and Moves ~
Peach does certainly have a good pattern. They like to start of with glide tosses turnips to generally force you. She can camp well, but you can outcamp her, since you can fire fireballs faster then her. During low %s they'll look for a Dair spam. It'll try to eat your shield as much as possible. Don't let that happen. They can get to a Dair > Nair/upair > and at lower %s she might possibly land a utilt/upsmash after the upair.
When your falling on to the stage, she'll look for oppunity to upsmash because of the sweetspot it has. If you do shield her Fair, she'll likely to follow up with a jab/ftilt so she won't be punished. But since it auto cancels she can follow up with just about anything.
~ Style adjustments ~
Luigi overpowers Peach in terms of offense and defense. If the momentum of the match turns in her favor, you can always adjust to the defensive by quickly throwing retreating SH fireball walls and look for a opening.
~ Ground tactics ~
Peach doesn't have outstanding ground tactics but the come out alot after her airgame. If your behind her, she'll most likely do a Dsmash, but it has poor knockback it won't kill after 180%s+. Her Dtilt can spike if your hanging on the ledge so becareful. Ftilt sends you up and her jab comes out quick after a Fair. Her peach bomber does a quite a knockback but won't be generally used alot, has alot of ending lag.
~ Air tactics ~
This is where things get sticky. You both have great airgame, great combo potential.
As I state earlier above, Peach will Dair to eat shields, follow up with a Nair/Upair, giving a quick 40%. And maybe after that, they'll try to pull off a hyphen upsmash as it has a sweet spot. Her Fair auto cancels, hard to punish, generally to approach, and kill, you MUST power shield it, and react quickly after it since it does auto cancel. Possibly her Fair outranges your Bair. Also don't go after peach if your directly below her [duh]. It's either equal terms of range or slight advantage of range in terms of aerials. [Correct me if i'm wrong]
~ Edgeguarding ~
Peach actually does pretty solidly in here. She can float her way towards you, do any aerial to Ko you or such. She can throw a turnip on the way, to mess gimp our recovery, she can use Toad to counter your green missle (I got killed by toad when I got a misfire LOL.) She can do a Dsmash to apply pressure, and stagespike you if you hang on to the edge too long. She can float and regrab the edge pretty quick giving her more invinciblity frames.
Well for Luigi, it's a matter of being careful because, if their at a high %s and you land a green missle to their face while their trying to edgeguard you, they'll be stage spiked, ko'd, or possibly a misfire to their face. So, aim for the sweetspot with a green missle, if their floating, just either aim for them, or half charge it, and gimp them on the way back. Of course, if your forced to use rising tornado recovery, be careful of that too, Dair, and turnips outprioritize your tornado. But while doing the recovery, trying getting them caught in the tornado so that they'll be sent to a offstage angle.
Well for Luigi to edgeguard is abit tricky. You'll want to force her vertical ko. She has great horizontal recovery but a bad vertical recovery. Fireball walls for pressure works great. Aerials still do work wonders if your in range and careful. Bair stage spikes will work at higher %s. A rising tornado can send her in a offstage angle.
~ Kill options ~
This is where the real difference between Luigi and Peach. Shes a floaty and dies pretty early. A shoryuken kills her around the 50%s, a fresh Fsmash, kills her in early 90%s, a hyphen upsmash works secksay since she's a floaty and has slow fall speed, Nair is still beastly for higher %s, Bthrow, when near end of stage 100%+, Bair for the kicks. Wow I can't name anymore Luigi is a real Ko machine lol.
As for Peach, she generally has a hard time killing since she'll be using Fair alot and will be affected by move decay. Ftilt will kill you at higher %s around 140%s~. Her upsmash sweetspot kills you pretty early at 100%s, her Fsmash is beast depending which one it is. All her other aerials work too.
Overall post: Both are great in air game, they are decent combo kings and queens ( xD ) and solid ground game. But the true difference between this matchup is kill options and defensive camping by Luigi and her lack of approachs from Peach
Overall rating: 60-40 in Luigi's favor. (Although you can always put a 55:45 if you want )
ALiAsVee
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2008
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- 739
Isn't it easy to overpower her with projectiles too though? I don't really encounter peach users, but i would think that you can shoot fireballs faster than they can throw turnips. If thats the case, approaching her shouldn't be too hard; you just can't use the cyclone because it gets canceled as hippie said.
I think its a fairly even match up, peach and luigi are both floaty with powerful aerial games, just a matter of using your game to outmatch hers. Then again, i am kinda speculating because i don't really fight peach users. :/
I think its a fairly even match up, peach and luigi are both floaty with powerful aerial games, just a matter of using your game to outmatch hers. Then again, i am kinda speculating because i don't really fight peach users. :/
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
Yes it is easy to overpower her projectile game. You can outcamp better then her. Fireballs cancel turnips, shoot much faster, and you can always catch them.
edit: im lazy ill finish my long boring wall of text tomrrow.
edit: im lazy ill finish my long boring wall of text tomrrow.
ALiAsVee
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2008
- Messages
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So is peach a slight disadvantage against luigi? With what I said and what you said it seems its probably 60:40 or 55:45.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
Well ima do Bowser later. I still think its a 70-30 for luigis favor. Only things to watch for is Bowser's ground game. Jab, ftilt, upb, crazy but slow strong smashs, alot of out of shield options and lives long.
Edit: I AM SO LAZY. i am just so lazy to post sorry >.> too busy with my new diddy lol
So the Mario's archenemy and nemesis of Nintedo is here to steal the show eh? Luigi can change his mind about messing with Luigi's girl!
~ Overview ~
Edit: I AM SO LAZY. i am just so lazy to post sorry >.> too busy with my new diddy lol
So the Mario's archenemy and nemesis of Nintedo is here to steal the show eh? Luigi can change his mind about messing with Luigi's girl!
~ Overview ~
ALiAsVee
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2008
- Messages
- 739
I'll post up something on bowser in a bit, i still have chemistry homework to do :[.
EDIT: So i actually played a pretty good bowser today for the first time, and i think that bowser isn't at such a cut and dry disadvantage as most people think. Sure, we can combo that mutha like a sandbag, but Bowser gets Luigi in edgeguarding (which seems to be the Achilles' heel for WeeGee.
Your best bet is coming from below (FD in my case) and trying to sweetspot the edge with an UpB. However, a properly spaced Bowser FireBreath makes it hard to do anything after that. Luigi's ledgejump is kind of slowish, and makes you a big target unless you do an nair right out of it. Bowser can easily short hop some fairs your way and send you back off stage. Rolling/climbing up doesn't work too well either because you end up getting hit by Bowser's Breath. Attacking off the edge is really only feasible when you are below 100%, otherwise you move too slow and will get hit.
Coming from the side of the stage is even worse, because Luigi's torpedo is usually so slow it can be hit with an fair by Bowser. The only way to truly get back on stage is too do a torpedo back to stage, jump and spam fair to cancel out anything Bowser throws your way. But i still don't have any "perfect" ways to get back on stage.
On the flip side, edgeguarding Bowser is very easy with fireballs and quick bairs. Gimping Bowser is similar to gimping DK because their moves don't have too much climb to their animations, making it smart to hit them to the lower part of the off-stage.
Your fireball game is slightly hindered, though not totally destroyed by Bowser's Breath, and combos are, of course, easy to land because of his size. Be careful however if the Bowser is good at perfect shielding, because you will tend to get a little attack happy at the big target of an enemy.
I still think its a pretty big advantage (70:30) but Bowser's edgeguarding could change that if someone truly knew what they were doing (the bowser i fought wasn't great, but he was decent).
Any hints from people who fight Bowser more often?
((BTW, i got nothing on peach, sorry folks))
EDIT: So i actually played a pretty good bowser today for the first time, and i think that bowser isn't at such a cut and dry disadvantage as most people think. Sure, we can combo that mutha like a sandbag, but Bowser gets Luigi in edgeguarding (which seems to be the Achilles' heel for WeeGee.
Your best bet is coming from below (FD in my case) and trying to sweetspot the edge with an UpB. However, a properly spaced Bowser FireBreath makes it hard to do anything after that. Luigi's ledgejump is kind of slowish, and makes you a big target unless you do an nair right out of it. Bowser can easily short hop some fairs your way and send you back off stage. Rolling/climbing up doesn't work too well either because you end up getting hit by Bowser's Breath. Attacking off the edge is really only feasible when you are below 100%, otherwise you move too slow and will get hit.
Coming from the side of the stage is even worse, because Luigi's torpedo is usually so slow it can be hit with an fair by Bowser. The only way to truly get back on stage is too do a torpedo back to stage, jump and spam fair to cancel out anything Bowser throws your way. But i still don't have any "perfect" ways to get back on stage.
On the flip side, edgeguarding Bowser is very easy with fireballs and quick bairs. Gimping Bowser is similar to gimping DK because their moves don't have too much climb to their animations, making it smart to hit them to the lower part of the off-stage.
Your fireball game is slightly hindered, though not totally destroyed by Bowser's Breath, and combos are, of course, easy to land because of his size. Be careful however if the Bowser is good at perfect shielding, because you will tend to get a little attack happy at the big target of an enemy.
I still think its a pretty big advantage (70:30) but Bowser's edgeguarding could change that if someone truly knew what they were doing (the bowser i fought wasn't great, but he was decent).
Any hints from people who fight Bowser more often?
((BTW, i got nothing on peach, sorry folks))
PrinceMarthX
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2008
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Need more input.
Vist
Smash Champion
considering just really good bowsers, i dont think the match is that much in luigi's favor but it definitely is somewhat
ALiAsVee
Smash Ace
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Its kind of hard to weigh a match up unless both players are of equal level. It can be said a good bowser can beat a Luigi, but how much better does he need to be in order to erase Luigi's advantages? Furthermore, i think its better to include examples of advanced techs like koopa hopping (or w.e its called) than just to say that a better bowser would beat a luigi (which is true, but still).
I for one thing haven't fought too many bowsers, and none of them koopa hopped with enough regularity to make that a staple in their gameplay. If this thread was given more input from different people on the topic, we might see that question answered...
What i can speculate is that Luigi's fireball game would have to be beefed up in order to compensate for the agility of koopa hopping (i am saying this under the assumption that fireballs can cancel bowser's hopping).
PolMex23
Smash Champion
Koopa hopping isn't such a mindgame/advantage, just be patient an don't be stupid while approaching.
If caught in a fire breath lock, DI towards Bowser for a free up-B. Works all the time.
The only thing is just be patient, combo when you can, and seriously. The Bowser player will have to use a laggy attack eventually, which are heavily punishable.
Wall(edge guard) please with back airs and tornado. Remember, Bowser is easily gimped. No vert recovery.
Oh an stutter f-smash = ****, so be mindful the range is deceiving.
70-30 Luigi. I fought DJ Nintendos Bowser in doubles, my friend who played ROB would take on the Wolf(Chexr) an I DJ. Pretty easy, not much Booser can do, so big. Doubles is different, but DJ would kill my friend alot with up-airs. Not me, I always got killed by the wolf =(. lost 2-1.
Buddy o-mine played Bowser, was pretty good. But after getting comboed to 60 once I down threw him, he started playing Wolf.
If caught in a fire breath lock, DI towards Bowser for a free up-B. Works all the time.
The only thing is just be patient, combo when you can, and seriously. The Bowser player will have to use a laggy attack eventually, which are heavily punishable.
Wall(edge guard) please with back airs and tornado. Remember, Bowser is easily gimped. No vert recovery.
Oh an stutter f-smash = ****, so be mindful the range is deceiving.
70-30 Luigi. I fought DJ Nintendos Bowser in doubles, my friend who played ROB would take on the Wolf(Chexr) an I DJ. Pretty easy, not much Booser can do, so big. Doubles is different, but DJ would kill my friend alot with up-airs. Not me, I always got killed by the wolf =(. lost 2-1.
Buddy o-mine played Bowser, was pretty good. But after getting comboed to 60 once I down threw him, he started playing Wolf.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
Agreed with Polmex. But I didn't know he can stutter step Fsmash D: Most definitly gotta watch out for that espically with upb's end lag if you miss. I do the DI towards them in the firee breath for a free shoryuken. Done it on Charizard, should work on Koopa too.
I'm wayy too lazy to post my 2 cents. lol.
I'm wayy too lazy to post my 2 cents. lol.
Vist
Smash Champion
yea man dj is (or was at least if he doesn't play anymore) one of the best bowser players. we played once on gb a while back and it was pretty tricky. it's not hard to camp bowsers out and force them to approach but if they get passed your crap & grab/side b u, it can get rough.
ALiAsVee
Smash Ace
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- Apr 13, 2008
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- 739
I didn't know that, but now i know next time i fight a charizard or bowser.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
I think we'll skip or get back to boozer discussion. I am honestly just too lazy to do it due to that fact im lazy,i dont know much >.> But update the peach disscussion tho ;D
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
Wow I'm surprised on how this thread is nearly up to page 2. Bumped cause I think everyone forgot about it >.>
PrinceMarthX
Smash Journeyman
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- Feb 13, 2008
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Match up discussion is a critical part the Luigi board is falling behind on. Knowing how to deal with every character is extremely important. Seeing this thread suddenly die like this is depressing. Let's start the discussion for the next character.
PrinceMarthX
Smash Journeyman
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- Feb 13, 2008
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- 258
Let's see what I know about Bowser.
He's large, so it's a lot easier to hit him with fire jump punch.
Fire jump punch kills him at 57%
Up angled forward smash kills him at 91%
Neutral air kills him at 132%
If you get caught in his fire breath and he keeps it going, you can SDI towards him and fire punch him. This will even work if tries to edge guard you with it.
You can side dodge and fire punch his down air if he's foolish enough to use it above you.
You can force him to approach and outcamp him with fireballs. You can use yours infinitely, while his fire breath weakens if he uses it too long.
Since Bowser is big he's open to all sorts of combos. You shouldn't have any problem in the air against him. His large size makes it easy to juggle him with up tilts as well.
Staying ontop of him as much as possible is probably best. His attacks outrange you (especially his forward tilt). Trying to space yourself won't be very effective. Be agressive.
If he's near the ledge then he might try to bowserscide. Stay away and toss fireballs.
Luigi has a big advantage over Bowser. Thinking about it seems like 70:30 in favor of Luigi. But then again, I'm not a complete expert on Bowser. So I'd like to hear what others think.
He's large, so it's a lot easier to hit him with fire jump punch.
Fire jump punch kills him at 57%
Up angled forward smash kills him at 91%
Neutral air kills him at 132%
If you get caught in his fire breath and he keeps it going, you can SDI towards him and fire punch him. This will even work if tries to edge guard you with it.
You can side dodge and fire punch his down air if he's foolish enough to use it above you.
You can force him to approach and outcamp him with fireballs. You can use yours infinitely, while his fire breath weakens if he uses it too long.
Since Bowser is big he's open to all sorts of combos. You shouldn't have any problem in the air against him. His large size makes it easy to juggle him with up tilts as well.
Staying ontop of him as much as possible is probably best. His attacks outrange you (especially his forward tilt). Trying to space yourself won't be very effective. Be agressive.
If he's near the ledge then he might try to bowserscide. Stay away and toss fireballs.
Luigi has a big advantage over Bowser. Thinking about it seems like 70:30 in favor of Luigi. But then again, I'm not a complete expert on Bowser. So I'd like to hear what others think.
Faithkeeper
Smash Lord
Try the roll onto ledge, and if you get hit by the fire, DI towards him and up b. he probably won't use it often after that.
Incorrect a good Peach player will not approach with a float close to the ground (hence you can hit her like this...) Peach player's will space incredibly well so that their float will let the tip of the dair hit you and **** you all over with it followed by a Zero combo... You can cancel it with a fireball best bet there, defense is key here.
Not to much ground wise? Well I'll admit she plays most in the air and her KO moves are the racket/ upsmash but in the ground she can rack up percent if it's a smart player. Peach's F-tilt to pop you into the air, her U-tilt etc. are all great examples. Also, the Dsmash doesn't do much but it's great for when they want to get you off from their backs so they will still use it.
Green missile, not a good edgeguarding move... never was, don't risk your stock by doing that
. The best thing to do is make her regain her ground and wait for the opportunity to strike, or attack her with an aerial from behind (so you don't face the wrath of the parasol).Overall
50:50
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
What? Green missle for edgeguarding? Wtf are you smoking Spark? Dsmash is good if your behind her. Dtilt can possibly spike you too. I still think its a 60: 40
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
A simple Dair to Nair/Upair, to a utilt/upsmash. Its basically like Luigis classic Dair> Nair > utilts > upair.
It should give around 30-40% or maybe abit higher. Her aerials are abit harder to punish espically Fair imo.
Zero combo is just a name we have here for when Excel_Zero starts combo ra**** everyone with Peach.
Hippie you haven't fought a good peach trust me...
Everyone want to see what Peach is capable of?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHhfkSGvOGs
Faithkeeper
Smash Lord
I only saw the first match, but i was impressed. I didn't know peach was that good, or at least could be that good. If the opponent plays like that, 50:50 seems reasonable.
note: high school Spanish finally paid off, those comments were HILARIOUS! (probably just to me though...)
Another thing against Bowser. Get 1st player slot, the sideb bowsercide takes you to sudden death if you are in a lower slot than your opponent.
note: high school Spanish finally paid off, those comments were HILARIOUS! (probably just to me though...)
Another thing against Bowser. Get 1st player slot, the sideb bowsercide takes you to sudden death if you are in a lower slot than your opponent.
That Peach was fantastic, I also watched that zero guy play a G&W and he destroyed him. Peach has a lot of options vs. luigi, most peaches approach with their dair and it's extremely dangerous. They can dair up to three times with their float ability and can combo out of the dair into dsmash, nair, bair and the most dangerous....fair. They can also aerial DI in the same league as Wario, so they can attack and retreat without risking being attacked. Also turnips are a pain and against Luigi they can be deadly in her edgeguarding game, watch out for them. A lot of times Peach players will just pull a turnip to get you off of your game, your so worried about not getting hit with it that it automatically gives them the advantage, don't fall into this trap. In this matchup fireballs are your best friends to help stop approaches. It's also hard to combo Peach because of her floaty mechanics, the only thing I think Luigi has in this matchup is how early Peach can be killed. I hate to say it, but I think this matchup is 60:40 Peach.
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
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I very much dislike fighting Luigi. His Nair/Fair is a hugee pain in the arse if Dair combos are pulled off incorrectly because he can use it to interrupt Peach instantly. Imo, Peach has the advantage...here goes
Peach is going to make heavy use of Dair. Watch what Peach does. She will most likely do one of two things:
1. Short hop float --> Falling Dair. This will generally be used if Peach is nearby. She will probably follow up with a Uair or possibly a Nair...or one after the other if she can get them in. This is around at least 40% damage if all the hits connect. It's normally much more than 40%
2. Full/partially full jump -->Floating Dair. Peach will normally float towards you doing this. A huge part of Peach's approach. If you get hit with this, expect her to do it another time or maybe twice more and then follow up with a Nair
Dair combos are evil. Forget the junk about her D Smash getting 'nerfed' - these are just as bad. As for countering them, try predicting how Peach is going to use them. The aim is to get higher than her and interrupt her (A Fair or a fireball would probably do the trick)
Luigi's aerials, despite Peach have very good aerials, still work well against Peach. If Peach is abusing her Fair, abuse yours back as it comes out faster (watch her spacing!). Attack Peach when she is falling down! Be aware that Dair can interrupt you but Peach is very VERY vunerable whenshe's knocked high in the air because it takes her forever to get down and Dair is very useless as a 'get back on ground safely' move. If she uses it, it's highly unlikely the final hit will connect. Punish it with a Nair
Ground game wise, Luigi can make things difficult for Peach because of his Fireballs. These severly hinder Peach's Turnip game which mainly involves Glide Tossing them into people. Fireballs interrupt Peach Bomber, Float, Turnips...they're very annoying to say the least. Peach will most likely Float in the air because of them. When she is close however watch out for her Jabs! They are super fast and will interrupt pretty much anything you do. If you are under our feet, we will use D Smash. Don't laugh like that because it will put you in a bad position. I've found Luigi's AAA combo works quite well vs Peach. Never ever EVER approach Peach from above unless you want an F Tilt or Up Tilt in the face. Remember Peach can Float just above the ground so watch she doesn't try and bring out a surprise aerial.
I'm very tired atm (I should probably have gone into more detail about recovery/gimping) so I've probably missed something out...but personally, I think the match up is 60-40 Peach's favour.
And seriously, if you're going to green missile into me, I'll just bring out Toad
Peach is going to make heavy use of Dair. Watch what Peach does. She will most likely do one of two things:
1. Short hop float --> Falling Dair. This will generally be used if Peach is nearby. She will probably follow up with a Uair or possibly a Nair...or one after the other if she can get them in. This is around at least 40% damage if all the hits connect. It's normally much more than 40%
2. Full/partially full jump -->Floating Dair. Peach will normally float towards you doing this. A huge part of Peach's approach. If you get hit with this, expect her to do it another time or maybe twice more and then follow up with a Nair
Dair combos are evil. Forget the junk about her D Smash getting 'nerfed' - these are just as bad. As for countering them, try predicting how Peach is going to use them. The aim is to get higher than her and interrupt her (A Fair or a fireball would probably do the trick)
Luigi's aerials, despite Peach have very good aerials, still work well against Peach. If Peach is abusing her Fair, abuse yours back as it comes out faster (watch her spacing!). Attack Peach when she is falling down! Be aware that Dair can interrupt you but Peach is very VERY vunerable whenshe's knocked high in the air because it takes her forever to get down and Dair is very useless as a 'get back on ground safely' move. If she uses it, it's highly unlikely the final hit will connect. Punish it with a Nair
Ground game wise, Luigi can make things difficult for Peach because of his Fireballs. These severly hinder Peach's Turnip game which mainly involves Glide Tossing them into people. Fireballs interrupt Peach Bomber, Float, Turnips...they're very annoying to say the least. Peach will most likely Float in the air because of them. When she is close however watch out for her Jabs! They are super fast and will interrupt pretty much anything you do. If you are under our feet, we will use D Smash. Don't laugh like that because it will put you in a bad position. I've found Luigi's AAA combo works quite well vs Peach. Never ever EVER approach Peach from above unless you want an F Tilt or Up Tilt in the face. Remember Peach can Float just above the ground so watch she doesn't try and bring out a surprise aerial.
I'm very tired atm (I should probably have gone into more detail about recovery/gimping) so I've probably missed something out...but personally, I think the match up is 60-40 Peach's favour.
And seriously, if you're going to green missile into me, I'll just bring out Toad