Luigi QA - RIP Mark Dunstan "Marky-Mark"

[Winston]

That's exactly what I do to edgeguard falcon; I think it's the best method overall when he's recovering high. The problem is vs. people with good DI they kind of keep the same height so you have to hit it a lot of times in a row to actually kill them, especially on Dreamland. I end up messing up a fair amount in tournament. Still I think it should be pretty much guaranteed.

The exception is probably on FD, where a pretty good option is to use ftilt or sh fastfall fair/bair to cover him pulling his up B back to the edge, then once he lands on the stage wavedash over and up b. I haven't gotten this down well enough to use it consistently yet though. Plus I kind of dislike that stage anyway vs. Falcon.

 

[COEY]

oh god missing those fairs in tournaments :/ story of my life. but yea if they recover high i'm pretty confident it's unavoidable for falcon. tbh i don't know how falcon can possibly recover against luigi if his edge guarding is consistent.

the reason i prefer the fair is just that reason about them keeping height. even if there's not a great deal in it the more downwards trajectory is vital imo. on a stage like dreamland you aren't gonna get kills off the side or top easily, but once your edgeguarding him it's good night dear falcon.

 

[Dynamism?]

If they're going really high, like UpBing out of your range starting around head height, I like to just sit there at a distance and WD ftilt if they go to the edge or WD grab if they go to the middle or Nair>Fair if they come on top of me. Piece of cake.
I mix things up WAY too much though. XD

Luigi's UpB might be a bit underused by some, but it's really not good at all lol
Luigi's Dashdance is underused by all. It's a good DD, just cause he can WD everyone rejects it

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I agree with what you said about dash dancing.

But Ftilt and Bair are the solutions to all your edgeguarding needs. :D

 

[Rappster]

is there any use for sh bair+fair?
2v1 in teams maybe?

 

[Dynamism?]

????
There's a use for everything. lol

DD ftw

 

[Ch3s]

I need some help playing on Rainbow Cruise. Its just such an odd stage, typical combos get screwed up, moves that would be good for spacing arent, and luigi is forced into the air alot. I need help with what moves are good to use (mostly on the moving part, especially moving up with the carpets), if there are times to just avoid opponents, and any characters to just ban this stage. I hate it, but i feel like with luigis air game it should be a decent stage for him

 

[Pakman]

Key too playing on rainbow cruise.

Camp and play defensive until you get past the pendulum thingy.

I can't tell you how many times I got screwed by pieces of that level disappearing.

 

[Vist]

you should play as gay as possible so the opponent leaves the match not only regretting picking such an awful stage but also being born

 

[Arrogant]

Oh yeah, what up lil' goblins!? Ain't **** happening in this thread at 1 in the AM. Y'all must've forgot! The freaks come out at night, son! Real talk!

 

[prog]

my dude arrogant, what's really good

 

[Vist]

arrogant's posts are ****ing amazing

 

[Winston]

So guys...

you should do fthrow -> ftilt more often (on marth and falcon)

it's fun, silly looking, unexpected... and sometimes the best option

 

[Arrogant]

Yo, tell me why imageshack folk be *******, man...

Oh, y'all ****** remember a *****?

***** 'bout to get his flirt on in a min', son...

Oh to make this post relevant, straight up... L-Boogie's a G. While Mario looks deep to investigate his conscience, Luigi's like, "You actin' like a lil' ***** right now. ***** ... we takin' this money. Belie' dat!"

 

[Ch3s]

first of all lol ^^^

Just out of curiosity, why isnt sh bair -> whatever not used very much. I was thinking about why i started playing luigi, and i remembered its cause i learned how to waveland and just bair comboed all day. But since then all i use anymore are like nair and dsmash and utilt, all the vertical combo moves. But today i started wondering why i dont see stuff like sh double bair or sh bair on shield to waveland or whatever, theres tons of stuff. I found that if I would wd up to a shield after conditioning sh dair to retreating nair or waveland, and instead turn around and sh bair their shield and land behind them with an nair they would wd back into it. Another interesting thing to note is that if you space a sh bair onto a shield while moving away from it, if they roll into you you can fair most of the cast, and if they roll the other way waveland to more bair pressure works.

That was really long winded but its just an example of how i started using sh bair. The only reason i say this is because i feel like most people only think to bair during edge guarding now, and prefer to space with ftilt and dsmash and combo with nair. I will grant that it is situational, but sh bair seems underused to me. another thing is if there is a reason it is underused that i am missing im curious, but when i played against my friend (who sits in his shield quite a bit, which may be the reason it worked so well), it was my most succesful approach.

Sorry for the long rant, i kinda want feedback on other things to do with onstage bair spacing, cause i really love this move

 

[Arrogant]

Because I know none of y'all have lives as awesome as me, I think I'll cheer you up and let you cats know what even cool kids like myself do on a Sunday morning...

Oh yeah... y'know you n*ggas is cool now.

 

[Winston]

first of all lol ^^^

Just out of curiosity, why isnt sh bair -> whatever not used very much. I was thinking about why i started playing luigi, and i remembered its cause i learned how to waveland and just bair comboed all day. But since then all i use anymore are like nair and dsmash and utilt, all the vertical combo moves. But today i started wondering why i dont see stuff like sh double bair or sh bair on shield to waveland or whatever, theres tons of stuff. I found that if I would wd up to a shield after conditioning sh dair to retreating nair or waveland, and instead turn around and sh bair their shield and land behind them with an nair they would wd back into it. Another interesting thing to note is that if you space a sh bair onto a shield while moving away from it, if they roll into you you can fair most of the cast, and if they roll the other way waveland to more bair pressure works.

That was really long winded but its just an example of how i started using sh bair. The only reason i say this is because i feel like most people only think to bair during edge guarding now, and prefer to space with ftilt and dsmash and combo with nair. I will grant that it is situational, but sh bair seems underused to me. another thing is if there is a reason it is underused that i am missing im curious, but when i played against my friend (who sits in his shield quite a bit, which may be the reason it worked so well), it was my most succesful approach.

Sorry for the long rant, i kinda want feedback on other things to do with onstage bair spacing, cause i really love this move

First of all, I think bair is great. I use it more often than any other aerial from neutral position. It combos fairly well too because all of Luigi's moves have combo potential for some reason. However, I really think that Luigi should be trying to stay grounded as much as possible in neutral position vs. Fox, Falco, Falcon, Marth, Sheik, and most characters.

About the stuff you mentioned, if you are moving through their shield with the bair then they should definitely be able to retailate safely oos between the bair and your nair. It sounds to me like your friend just sits in shield way too much if you can "condition" him with dair nair (which shouldn't be working that often in the first place). It's not much of a mixup either because if they see you moving through their shield with the bair they have plenty of time to react.

Also, even though bair is safer if you whiff you will get punished also. I know that this is true of ftilt, dsmash, etc, but the advantage of the ground moves for approach is

1). You can ASDI down (aka "crouch cancel", not the true ccing) during the lag, so it limits their punishment options by a lot. Getting hit by a Fox/Falcon nair or Marth fair while you are in the air is one of the worst things that can happen to you at low percents.

2). You keep your forward momentum while using the ground moves, and you can adjust this momentum to pretty much any degree, making your spacing very unpredictable. Using aerials takes advantage of this less because jumping kills your momentum so it makes your max threat range smaller. If you approach with aerials a lot this will lose to simple tactics such as running back and punishing.

The idea I do like is the spaced bair on shield -> wavedash towards if you get the read that they will wd/roll back. That one sounds interesting.

 

[Ch3s]

I played Forward's falco today in a bunch of friendlies, and, ya know, hes pretty good. So i got ***** alot. But the biggest problem i had was trying to stop his laser game. He gave me some great advice on when to roll and sit in shield, and also told me to work on powershielding. Is there any other specific advice on how to get by them that you guys have? i know this has been asked a thousand times but like even what to do against specific approaches after lasers would be a great help. Thanks

 

[Winston]

The common laser -> aerial can be beaten by an aerial (bair or fair) oos if they are predictable with it. It can also be beaten with wavedash back downsmash/grab. Both require you to make a bit of a read to land them.

If they do the laser spacing thing a lot of falcos like to do, which doing short dashes to adjust spacing between lasers, you can hit them with a wavedash ftilt. Basically any time there is even a slight gap in their lasering, they are vulnerable and you should watch for these and threaten them with a wavedash ftilt. You could try using jab too at lower percents.

If you watch Ka-master's recent sets with Silent Wolf, he's really good with both of these things (aerial oos to intercept an approach, and wd oos to hit falco in the gaps in lasering).

You could also try fiddling around on platforms a bit on PS and YS, since low platforms give Luigi pseudo aerial mobility. FoD probably also if you are good at doing good wavelands on the varying platform heights.

That's all I got. I don't know a ton about this matchup myself.

 

[Ch3s]

Lol on FoD on all but the highest platform Forward can hit you with a shl, its pretty cool. Thanks, he told me not to jump but ill see what i can do with good timing, can u give me a link to those videos?

 

[Winston]

Oh, my bad about the FoD thing, wasn't thinking about it. I don't play there much.

I can understand what he means about not jumping, since I'm always talking about not jumping with Luigi, but as I see it it's one of the only 2 ways you can hit him ever. You have to get the read kind of, and it's risky, so you can't do it too often. Forcing mixups and making him less confident in his approaches is valuable though.

What did he suggest to do instead?

the vids I was talking about are in silent wolf's channel:

http://www.youtube.com/silentwolf444

 

[Ch3s]

He showed me the common short hop laser to approaching sh nair, and said that if i read laser ->nair roll towards falco, and i figured out i can do it on reaction, although i havent conditioned myself to do it perfectly yet. He also said to watch out for a laser to dd baiting the roll, which is why you have to try to do it by reaction. Basically what he says was if you get hit by a laser, play 100% defensive, and reset and try to powershield the lasers again. So i suppose a wavedash back is possible if they do approaching nair and dd mix up, but if they catch on they can laser. Its really a guessing game, but the roll worked very well when i pulled it off, especially considering he was telling me to do it so its not like he didnt expect it. Let me know if this makes sense, i can try to ellaborate. The only move i hit him with was a good nair out of shield (as you suggest), as well as random back airs timed so that you are rising just above the laser as he shoots it, but when he caught on he shot high, but with good reaction those can be ducked. SO I guess theoretically you can use great reaction to make the falco think twice about lasering when they dont hit. But ultimately powershielding is the only guaranteed way to stop them. What an annoying circle lol

Edit: Those vids were awesome and a great help! thanks

Watch 1:15 through 1:23 a couple times it showcases most of the options actually, the first one he does is the roll forward talked about.

 

[Winston]

Yeah, I haven't ever played vs a falco anywhere near forward's level, so I'm not that qualified to give advice...

I'm just suggesting things I saw ka master do in vids, and stuff Vist did vs me when I played my mediocre falco.

The rolling thing sounds good. I'll have to remember to work on that whenever I play vs a falco next.

btw, if he uses mainly nair to approach, do you ever try crouch canceling it?

 

[Ch3s]

Actually i didnt try all the options from a crouch cancel, the biggest problem i had was that he spaced the nair to be perfectly behind me, so the shine comes out way before the dmash i tried hits behind, but i certainly didnt try wavedashing away or upsmash or ftilt, which would you recommend if i did try to crouch cancel every once in a while?
I have good enough reaction that if he lands in front i can cc dsmash, so just what to do when he spaces well and lands behind?

Do you think ftilt would be good, considering he could land further behind me instead of shining, or just usmash?

Also, can dair be cced? and if so, up to what percent?

Edit: I totally forgot, lightshielding is really good against nair approaches near the edge, and kind of (although not as much) works against dair.

 

[Winston]

Dair can't be cced ever. It has less range than nair, though. Also, if the dair hits you when you are slightly in the air and knocks you into the ground and you don't fall over, you have no stun from it. I don't think you can actively exploit that but keep that in mind if it ever happens.

I'm surprised that he can cross you up with nair like that considering falco isn't super fast horizontally. I feel like you should be able to adjust your spacing enough so that he can't do that consistently. If he does space it as well as you say though then I don't really know what to do, haha. I don't know if usmash comes out fast enough, and ftilt can be cced back, and it doesn't knock them over at low percent.

 

[Ch3s]

Youre probably right. Im going to go spend time lasering with falco to figure out the spacing on sh nair, and just space so that luigi cant get hit. But he is insanely good, so when he does, i think up smash should be fast enough. It actually comes out behind you almost as fast as dsmash. Thanks alot for lettin me throw ideas off you, i think i just need to test all my options and get better reactions to his approaches. that dair thing is cool too

 

[Smash G 0 D]

...
Throw Falco off ledge.

Use Ftilt/Bair.

GG.

 

[ChivalRuse]

More realistic would be...
Attempt to grab Falco.

Get shined.

GG.

 

[Ch3s]

I think i grabbed forward like, once a match and always in the middle of the stage lol. Then got a 3 move combo out of it lol.

 

[Winston]

...
Throw Falco off ledge.

Use Ftilt/Bair.

GG.

****, why didn't I think of this

now fighting falco will be so easy

 

[Smash G 0 D]

: D

 

[thegreatkazoo]

If only life were Smash GOD easy...

Also, finding a lag free TV that is 480p and isn't the size of an elephant is rough.

Where'd you guys get yours?

 

[Blea Gelo]

whats the theme now ?

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Wazoo: not everyone is a God.

Blea: HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAI<3

 

[thegreatkazoo]

Smash GOD wins the thread. :bigthumbu

Howdy Blea. I remember the incessant snoring of yours during ####. Good thing I'm a heavy sleeper.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

So who's gonna play Luigi in Project:M?

 

[thegreatkazoo]

So who's gonna play Luigi in Project:M?

I still hear it's kinda glitchy though.

If they clear that up, I'll give it a stab.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I now have access to Project:M. I played it. Luigi isn't glitchy - he's actually not too bad, but I'm still waiting for some improvements on regular gameplay. Just small things. But I need to test it further.

 

[Divinokage]

Wazoo: not everyone is a God.

Blea: HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAI<3

Aren't everything a small part of God? You just need to realize your own potential! Follow the love. =)

 

[P D]

question: how do you do the down-b recovery effectivly? like is there some timing?

clarification: i have the mashing skills to do docs and marios down-b perfectly but when i do luigis i normally go straight down.