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Luigi QA - RIP Mark Dunstan "Marky-Mark"

Vist

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hmmm I haven't played any good dks in a while... played bum a long time ago and chinesah's a few times i think but I'd still say the match-up is in luigis favor


i wonder what luigis mexican has played?

lol eddy mexico and mexican should duke it out sometime to settle this match-up. it should be called eddy mexican lawl
 

giuocob

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hmmm I haven't played any good dks in a while... played bum a long time ago and chinesah's a few times i think but I'd still say the match-up is in luigis favor


i wonder what luigis mexican has played?

lol eddy mexico and mexican should duke it out sometime to settle this match-up. it should be called eddy mexican lawl
According to himself, he's played a guy whose ingame name is 'n00b' and some guy who he 'heard might have beaten Scar'. Not a whole lot of good experience in there, if you ask me, especially since he implied his Luigi opponents were wavedashing like idiots into DK's downB.
 

Vist

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LOL what is this i dont even...



this thread should clearly be called 'why are blea and pakman so good?' or 'when i grow up, i want to be blea gelo / pakman!'
 

thegreatkazoo

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LOL what is this i dont even...



this thread should clearly be called 'why are blea and pakman so good?' or 'when i grow up, i want to be blea gelo / pakman!'
Why are we forgetting about Ka-Master? :S

This thread should be called "Why are Vist and Ka-Master so good?"

I wonder if we have any Luigi vs. DK vids that are recent.

*Checks*

EDIT: We don't.
 

Wenbobular

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VIST!
Punning it up
I just realized that somehow I am in the Luigi discussion forums when I thought I was in Atlantic North regionals ... man I'm good
 

Winston

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so...

backthrow -> wd ftilt combos on Falcon at some percents if they survival DI. I'm not really sure about the percent range but I think it starts at like 50 or 60.

I've only done it twice so far but it seems good because pretty much everyone will survival DI luigi's backthrow.
 

thegreatkazoo

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What if the falcon decides to be aggressive though?

Let's say on the back throw, he decides to turn defense into offense and tries a knee or a stomp. Not 100% sure of the plausibility, but someone can correct me on that as needed...
 

giuocob

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Sounds plausible, but I think Uthrow -> **** is a better combo on falcon and spacies. Anyway, doesn't Dthrow -> Ftilt work at all reasonable percentages above like 25?
 

Winston

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No, dthrow -> ftilt does not work if they DI behind. Wish it did. Try it on a level 1 even - they'll get out like half the time.

"Uthrow -> ****" is also limited on people who know how to DI and tech Luigi's stuff. It's not like Marth's uthrow -> **** on spacies. I mean Luigi definitely has good followups out of uthrow, but he has to get reads to get a really good combo. (Or his opponent doesn't DI.)

The way I see it the point of this backthrow thing is that you use it when you're kind of near the middle of the stage. When you backthrow them you throw them to the edge, so this gets you an ftilt by the edge, which sets up an edgeguard opportunity.

eh, maybe it doesn't work as well as I think it might. I'll have to try it some more.
 

Wenbobular

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No, it's more like Uthrow -> DI behind Luigi at mid % = :( for Luigi until Uthrow -> Ftilt works

Pretty sure it's not Uthrow -> **** if the person has Luigi experience ... but who does miright ~_~ (*raises hand* ...)

Being the person that Winston has Bthrow -> Ftilted, it does feel like a combo because I'm pretty sure I was trying to jump. Knee and stomp are obviously too slow if I don't think I can even jump out of it ~_~
 

Wenbobular

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???
What?
Could you tell me how 0-52 is guaranteed
What character is this on
...
???
 

giuocob

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???
What?
Could you tell me how 0-52 is guaranteed
What character is this on
...
???
Weegee's, got a chainthrow on spacies and Falcon about 0-50. It's pretty hard to pull off though, so I usually break it when I get a chance to Dsmash, and I'm pretty sure Dsmash -> **** IS a legitimate combo pretty much all the time.
 

Wenbobular

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Dsmash -> **** works on people who don't know how to DI Luigi combos ... once you start DIing away you can usually jump out of stuff. Not saying that people will DI it every single time, but I can DI out of Luigi combos enough for them to be just Dsmash -> a hit or two

The chaingrab is legit I guess, but if you DI back consistently you kinda just run out of room to wavedash (Winston told me you turn around during the CG).

Don't think the chaingrab works on Falcon.
 

Vist

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IMO Monster combos that start with Uthrow at low percents are pretty much guaranteed on any of the spacies regardless of DI.

dsmash not so much though as wenbo said.... like at really low percents it'll work but around mid percentages the luigi can only really guarantee a jump -> fair b/c they can jump out otherwise..
 

Wenbobular

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Yeah .... too bad that only works on noobs who don't DI and can't tech worth beans :lick:

@ Vist - how do those go?
Don't you generally have to techchase? I know you can get some pretty killer stuff with techchases, but they're still a bit of guessing involved right?

At low % when I'm playing a space animal and get thrown upwards, I DI behind and wait for the UpSmash ...

If I don't tech and he gets a jab reset, I get UpSmashed and DI behind, which gets me out of the combo if he misses the techchase.

If he just UpSmashes me, I DI behind and tech the UpSmash, same situation as above.

I'm just basing this off of mostly playing Winston though, haha.
 

giuocob

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At mid-high percentages (anything below 75ish in my experience, though with good DI it's probably lower), Dsmash chains into Dair before they jump, which should be more than enough to launch them off the stage and set up an edgeguard. It chains into Fair at even higher percents. These probably don't qualify as 'monster combos', but they're often to enough to net a stock if you pull off a good edgeguard.

I don't think you can DI out of the Dsmash -> Dair, though it would be nice to know if I'm wrong.


how is it guaranteed if they DI behind? At low percents you can't do anything before they tech, and then it's a matter of guessing their tech because I don't think Luigi can techchase spacies on reaction...
Well, the obvious answer is CG until they get into mid-low percents. The CG's not too bad until about 30 when you have to start wavedashing to keep up, at which point you can start thinking about getting a jab, Dsmash, or Ftilt in there.
 

Wenbobular

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Umm ... if the chaingrab was that easy to do to 30 I think more Luigis would do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZNJPe30qZU

Around 1:07 you see KaMaster get a grab at 2% and UpThrow ... Swift is nowhere near where Luigi can dash over and grab him ...

Pretty sure you can just jump out of most Dsmash combos as Falcon if you DI them, but I'm not 100% sure.

Actually if you're talking about below 75%, Dsmash -> Dair even if it hits doesn't even send Falcon off the stage with DI ... you're reeeeeeeeally high in the air and Luigi is no Marth / Falcon is no floaty.
 

Vist

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really low percents are probably the hardest to deal with when the person DIs behind, in which case it wouldn't really be fair to say it's guaranteed but I basically look at it like this:

1. Usually, ppl don't DI the uthrow correctly consistently. Even if the person is insanely good or really knows what to expect, chances are that you have a free turn-around upsmash or whatever you like to hit them with. Pressuring them and/or grab -> throw as fast as possible helps XD.

2. If the person does actually DI the throw correctly, I want to say that it is possible to hit them with some seriously quick timing (I can't say for sure b/c there's been scenarios where someone will be seem like they're DI-ing correctly but I've managed to turn around -> dsmash or walk -> dsmash or maybe get a jab in)

3. Assuming none of what I said works, reading the tech off of the player doesn't seem too bad. They'll probably tech-roll away and you can probably get to where they end up in a wd or 2 and grab them / do some attack as you're wding. If they roll into you then you can probably just do anything as long as you time it right since they'll be right behind you. And if they don't tech you better try to hit them asap with something or maybe jab reset and grab them again.. I def wouldn't jab reset to upsmash tho. In fact, I wouldn't expect to be able to combo anything after a usmash reliably after a bit of percentage, but it has its uses..


btw I think the cg is pretty reliable cept at those really low percents but I'd say maybe after 10 or 15% you should be able to either regrab, turn-around -> dash -> jc grab, wd back and grab w/o turning around, or wd back -> turn-around grab (btw I'm talking about vs fox).
 

giuocob

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Wenbobular's video brought up something I've been thinking of for a while:

How come people don't edgeguard spacies with Fair and Dair more? I realize it's a lot riskier and you can miss, but I've taken to doing it lately with a lot of success. Instead of hanging on the ledge and waiting to land a Bair, I've taken to standing on the edge of it and waiting. If they try to side B to the ledge, there's enough time to drop off and Dair on reaction. If they start up firefox/firebird, guess where they're headed to (usually not too hard) and jump out there and Fair, or Dair if you're feeling really ambitious. This'll usually kill them instantly, as opposed to ledgehop Bairs where you sometimes have to hit upwards of 3 to get the kill.
 

Winston

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People do use fair/dair a lot in edgeguarding spacies, I think. Using sh dair or ledgehop dair to hit firefox coming from below is pretty common.

I didn't know that runoff dair hit the illusion - that's pretty cool if it works like you said.

I disagree with the part where you say that guessing where they are going with firefox is not too hard, though. I mean if they had good DI on the chop/dair that sent them off the stage, they usually can firefox from above the edge, which means they have at least 3 options - to the edge, straight, and up. Guessing where they're going is like a 1/3 chance. I think you can cover 2 of the 3 options fairly easily but I haven't thought of a good way to cover all of them yet. That makes it like a 50/50 shot.

You can react to what they do if they are pretty far away when they start the firefox, but I think it's pretty tricky when they are doing it close,but not close enough that luigi can go out there and hit them. For example, 0:45 in the Ka vs Swift vid.
 

Wenbobular

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Also if you miss and they make it to the ledge before you do, you're kinda boned :lick: especially vs. Fox, he can just shine spike you so easily <_<
 
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