Lucina Moveset Analysis/Speculation/Discussion

[Oracle_Summon]

Lucina is the girl of the two.
...
Wait, that doesn't help.

Of course it doesn't. Lucina is the manly one.

 

[Claire Farron]

I hate that she's a clone, it doesn't do her justice at all. Plus it makes NO SENSE for her to be a clone because in Chapter 4 when they're in Arena Ferox she's said to have learned to fight from Chrom so unless Marth and Chrom fight the same way it makes no sense and is just lazines on the developers part.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I hope she has Marth's old neutral B.

 

[Wraeith]

The many different blade trails of Smash 4.

Looking at this makes me miss the fantastic sound effects swords had in Melee for some reason.

 

[LancerStaff]

Marths Side special, shown in that video I posted above your post, shows that his sword leaves a red trail when he swings, lucina did not have that.

Interesting. But the effects during her Sspecial look... Lacking, don't you think?

The many different blade trails of Smash 4.

Well, that just about eliminates these being similar to confirmed characters. Any idea on ATs? I remember Samurai Goro had blue slashes. Didn't Saki have green ones?

 

[Neo Zero]

As another thread shows, Lucina does not have Marth's tipper mechanic at least

Marth's sword trial emphasizes his tipper mechanic, seen by the light blue at the edge of the flash. Lucina's does not have that, as it is a static blue trial with no single part of the blade emphasized. This alone should clear up her status as her own character, as well as her being different from Marth in some ways.

 

[CyberZixx]

I'd be cool with that. Would make quite the chance in how she plays even with the same move set. Would probably make her easier to play as well. I wonder what the fixed damage and knockback of her moves would be to compensate.

 

[lightdasher]

Interesting. But the effects during her Sspecial look... Lacking, don't you think?

No.

 

[BertEast]

Also, her nair is actually different. Although it looks the same, it seems to have less lag, and actually seems to strike a total of 3 times in front of her rather than twice. Check this album: http://imgur.com/a/Aad2Y

 

[Xafer2468]

I'm not entirely sure about this, but I'm going to give it a mention. Everyone I've seen seems to be thinking her nair is the same as Marth's - and it looked that way to me as well, but then I saw a gif that was a repeat of her nair. Smashboards isn't letting me post the link since I don't have 10 posts yet, though :/

Is it legal to post the link with spaces between it so that I can still show everyone? http:// gfycat.com/ FineSentimentalGecko (if this is illegal, lemme know and I'll do whatever the rules call for. Just figured my post is fairly useless without my source.)

It looks to me like it has at least 4 different hits - she slashes forward, hits Samus, slashes backward and hits nothing, slashes forward again and hits Samus again, then slashes backward once more and hits Greninja. Looks more like a multihit spin than the double slash Marth has had. His only hits twice, right? I'll feel bad if he doesn't.

Great find man, your right. I think its 3 hits tho, but any differentiation between marth and lucina is welcome

 

[Zero Requiem]

So happy she's not a direct clone.

 

[Novice_Brave]

She has the same specials as Marth, though I would assume they have some different properties (her dancing sword and dolphin slash seemed different to me, but I'm not a big Marth player so the exact differences aren't exactly clear in my mind).

Her u-air looked visually similar if not visually identical (again, not a big Marth player) to Marth's. Her nair, however, looks significantly different to me, unless I'm going insane. If you take a look at this gif http:// gfycat.com/ FineSentimentalGecko, I hope you'll see what I'm talking about. To me, it looks like her nair is NOT a "double slash" with two hits - one forward, one behind - like Marth's is, but rather is more of a multihit "spinning slash."

To me, the progression of the move looks like it hits:
Forward, hits Samus
Backward, hits no one
Forward, hits Samus again
Backward, hits Greninja

Then she brings it forward again for a sweep to bring it back around to the front. Not sure if this part has a hitbox though. IIRC, Marth should only have two hits on his nair and more ending lag.

I could be wrong for sure, though - like I've said, not huge on Marth so it could still be identical and I'm just missing it since I don't know him well enough.

 

[Neo Zero]

Also, her nair is actually different. Although it looks the same, it seems to have less lag, and actually seems to strike a total of 3 times in front of her rather than twice. Check this album: http://imgur.com/a/Aad2Y

Good eye. This is another major difference as well.

 

[Novice_Brave]

Glad to hear it! Yeah, I'm totally down for any differentiation between Marth and Lucina. I was pretty disappointed in how much of a clone she looked like (and by "pretty disappointed" I mean I may or may not have cussed her out to my friend in frustration. Woops.) so anything taking her out of that super square clone box is a good thing. I like Lucina, I really do, so I want to like to her gameplay as well.

Glad to hear about the difference in tip sweetspotting as well. Makes me wonder if she'll have some other sweetspot mechanic or if her moves will simply have consistent damage throughout the sword. I would assume (and it looks like) the latter so far, but I won't rule anything out!

 

[FlynnCL]

I feel like she's probably going to be an "easier" Marth with no true sweetspot on her attacks. She'll probably just have power a bit above Marth's non-tipper attacks and that's it.

She could be slightly faster as a result, and maybe even have some differences in trajectories for attacks (like her down tilt being Roy's that sends up). I hope...

 

[Hydde]

I have this feeling that she will be the reincarnation of Melee's Marth swordplay but without the tip.

 

[Xafer2468]

We still have fair,bair,dair, tilts and smashes to look forward to. They really need to give her the stance from awakening, its really weird seeing her without her trademark stance.

 

[LancerStaff]

No.

She gets little flits of purple and yellow from hitting Luigi, and the green on the stab-bity bit is basically right on her sword instead of a long trail like in Marth's.

And really now, a different sword trail doesn't mean anything about how the sword will deal damage. This is just the pessimist in me, but it really doesn't prove much.

 

[HugoBoss]

Based on the little info we have, I'm speculating that Lucina would be a semi-clone of Marth, or a full-one. Her air game will be superior to Marth's, it will be similar to Melee/Brawl Marth. She could be faster and more nimble than Marth as well, but weaker and lacking any real kill moves. Her specials look like they are almost near identical to Marth, but with some tweaks like every semi-clone has. Her Side-B seems to reach farther than Marth's, her Up-B is more horizontal than Marth, her counter looks identical to Marth's. Unfortunately her fighting pose is identical to Marth's, not even her own is featured.


From this trailer, it seems she may just be a Marth clone, or possibly a semi-clone but the latter seems less likely. Hopefully she has a few unique moves of her own and is not a complete clone of Marth.

 

[payasofobia]

Or be the Roy to Marth's Marth.

Fire Emblem really needed a fast fighter. Marth has always been too strong and floaty to be considered a true "speedster".

Looking forward to fast-falling goodness.

 

[Raetah]

I am against Falco because he brings the least to any Smash Brothers games. He has done nothing significant wise in his own series. Could have been easily swapped out for Slippy/Peppy Hare. People also try to counteract or downplay Wolf so I downplay Falco, when Wolf is clearly the one who is more diverse to Fox.

It is hard to explain, but Falco just seems off to me, like he doesn't belong.

Using Pokemon is not a good example, because all of the characters can be swapped out in the game. There is no Pokemon character that has the most relevancy, besides Pikachu who is the Pokemon mascot.

Now I would like to ask you, what do you have against Lucina?

Falco was one of the best thing that happened to Melee, he bringed more variety to smash than more non-clone characters, he is the example of how a clone character is suposed to be in Smash, because you know there is nothing wrong with clones if those are done correctly and i hope that for Lucina.

Could have been easily swapped out for Slippy or Peppy? I dont know about that. Perhaps, but Falco is more charismatic than Slippy or Peppy.

Actually Pokemon is not thab bad example although that you can get rid of Pokemon, there are different roles, Mewtwo is one of the final challenges of his game, Greninja, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle and Pikachu can be your first partner in the game, Lucario is a weird Pokemon, clearly the Pokemons with the less relevant roles are Jigglypuff and Pichu.

I do have two things opinions about Lucina.

1st yes, Awakening clearly deserves representation, but i dont know if it really deserves two characters or if Fire Emblem deserves 4 characters. Really, if Fire Emblem can have 4 characters, what is the problem with Star Fox with 3 characters or Mother with 2? Let Falco, Wolf and Lucas alone.

2nd I really hope Lucina-Marth work as great as Fox-Falco did in Melee, it would be disapointing if either Lucina or Marth is considerably better than the other.

Stop hating the bird.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Falco was one of the best thing that happened to Melee, he bringed more variety to smash than more non-clone characters, he is the example of how a clone character is suposed to be in Smash, because you know there is nothing wrong with clones if those are done correctly and i hope that for Lucina.

Could have been easily swapped out for Slippy or Peppy? I dont know about that. Perhaps, but Falco is more charismatic than Slippy or Peppy.

Actually Pokemon is not thab bad example although that you can get rid of Pokemon, there are different roles, Mewtwo is one of the final challenges of his game, Greninja, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle and Pikachu can be your first partner in the game, Lucario is a weird Pokemon, clearly the Pokemons with the less relevant roles are Jigglypuff and Pichu.

I do have two things opinions about Lucina.

1st yes, Awakening clearly deserves representation, but i dont know if it really deserves two characters or if Fire Emblem deserves 4 characters. Really, if Fire Emblem can have 4 characters, what is the problem with Star Fox with 3 characters or Mother with 2? Let Falco, Wolf and Lucas alone.

2nd I really hope Lucina-Marth work as great as Fox-Falco did in Melee, it would be disapointing if either Lucina or Marth is considerably better than the other.

Stop hating the bird.

Actually Luigi was the best thing to happen to Melee when concerning Clone Characters, everyone else, excluding the clones brought waaayyyy more to the game.

Falco could have be easily swapped for Slippy or Peppy because they are prime examples of how teamwork should be in the Star Fox games.

What I mean about Pokemon is the fact that there are so many that could be characters. Yes, few are more important than others, i.e. Mewtwo, Pikachu and Lucario, but there are not many that reach the level of iconicness (if you call it that).

There is no problem with Falco in Super Smash Brothers; however, if someone is to be cut, Falco would be my preferred choice. (Lucas and Wolf can stay though, because I like them both)

Falco was actually better than Fox in every way when it came to Melee, except for recovery.

Falco is just my least favorite Nintendo character of all time. He doesn't do anything for me.

 

[Starcutter]

I hope that the damage output isn't too bad... that's what made roy not as good as marth.

 

[Hydde]

I think Lucina will likely have some differences from Marth, even if they share some, maybe all the same moves. Even if the moves are the same, they could still make her play and feel somewhat differently with things like altering the sweet spot of her weapon, speed, damage, etc. She could also have different default specials than Marth, which I don't know if it will matter or not for offline competitive play, but it will make a difference for people who'll play For Glory mode a lot.

Yeh, i think that are all aware that, as a clone..she will move and strike with different physics than Marth, pretty much like how roy and marth were...... but the fact that she is a clone is depressing

 

[Roy-Kun]

As far as her attacks/moves goes, it seems to be that way.

She could be the Ken to Marth's Ryu. Or well, the Falco to Fox's Marth (think Melee).

 

[Harpuia]

Marth vs Lucina COMPARISON (because I have no idea why everyone is saying Lucina's moves are different whilst not showing the differences between them other than saying "they look faster to me")

Video of Marth's Move set
https:// www. youtube.com/watch?v=e0ej06eP_uY
1) Look at 2:38. Marth does the SAME Double Edge Dance combo at the SAME speed as Lucina in the trailer.

2) Look at 1:16 for uses of Marth's Nair. It is naturally a quick move and in the game in the air even has very little end lag. (sadly the player did not short hop nair to be able to compare landing lag. So it is still up for debate whether or not Lucina auto-canceled in the trailer.)
Also http:// smashboards. com/threads/complete-marth-hitboxes-and-frame-data.285324/
This link has hit boxes for Marth's nair which are identical to the hitboxes shown where Lucina uses hers.

3) What you have posted as Lucina's Forward air in the OP looks exactly like the animation of Marth's Up air

4) I've read points about Lucina's Up-B looking like it reaches higher but at 2:25, you can see that Marth's Up-B goes very far vertical. (The player did not seem to try to make an attempt to try to move Marth's up-b horizontally though, and since obviously no one has played Lucina yet, I cannot determine if Lucina's can reach more horizontally than Marth's.)


*Edit Just to add a conclusion and #5*
5) She makes the same Counter pose as Marth, but as we have yet to see any attack be actually countered by her, we cannot determine if it is actually different. But the Pose is certainly the same.

*EDIT #2 for point #6*
6) People have mentioned her Jump animation being different, but it is infact the same. Both Marth and Lucina hold their sword low and behind them when the are rising, and then hold it in front of them after using a move in the air.

So far everyone of her moves shown in the TRAILER have be exact copies of Marth's in terms of animation.
Whether or not Sakurai changes the properties of the hitboxes is something we cannot compare yet since we do not have the ability to test Lucina. For all the screenshots posted on the website, none of them are really show off any of her moves well.

 

[TheSqushiestManatee]

Do you think she will steal Roy's sword sweet-spot mechanic?

i hope so. wshes pretty fast so mabye she could be a rushdown character if that happens through having to get close. her speed should help with that.

 

[Remo]

Roy confirmed

PLEASSE

 

[TheSqushiestManatee]

sakurai said he was excited about updates. if she is a clone, lets try to get an emphasis on speed to change her somewhat.

 

[Raetah]

Actually Luigi was the best thing to happen to Melee when concerning Clone Characters, everyone else, excluding the clones brought waaayyyy more to the game.

Falco could have be easily swapped for Slippy or Peppy because they are prime examples of how teamwork should be in the Star Fox game.

What I mean about Pokemon is the fact that there are so many that could be characters. Yes, few are more important than others, i.e. Mewtwo, Pikachu and Lucario, but there are not many that reach the level of iconicness (if you call it that).

There is no problem with Falco in Super Smash Brothers; however, if someone is to be cut, Falco would be my preferred choice. (Lucas and Wolf can stay though, because I like them both)

Falco was actually better than Fox in every way when it came to Melee, except for recovery.

Falco is just my least favorite Nintendo character of all time. He doesn't do anything for me.

Actually the only clones that worked incorrectly in Melee were Pikachu-Pichu and Marth-Roy. Falco brought a lot to Melee, more than the 50% of the roster, to check that the only thing you need to do is going to Youtube. Falco being better than Fox is something debatable, i actually think that Falco is sightly better than Fox. Still, is not the huge difference between Marth and Roy, i would not say that Falco is MUCH better than Fox.

Im sure that if you look deep enough you will be able to find at least 10 nintendo character that you would not pick over Falco, including some main characters.

 

[Remo]

The first thing I want to say is that We get a character reveal and all I see is complaining that she's just a clone. How do we know? Because we've seen early footage? There's so much time for her to change and yet no-one wants to realize that. Even IF she is a clone it opens the door to other characters to the series. All we know is what we've seen. And NOTHING is final until the game is out itself.

I for one am happy as all hell we get a female sword user even IF she is a clone.

 

[Sayjin]

Technically it comes out in 2 months, since the 3DS and WiiU versions will be the same, and the 3DS version comes out late September in Japan.

 

[Azureflames]

I hope that the damage output isn't too bad... that's what made roy not as good as marth.

Pretty sure it wasnt the damage output per se. I think it was the lack of knockback on some moves in combination with just awful recovery and lack of being able to stall offstage, not to mention. He also lacked kill potential outside of Fsmash and nB(flareblade) since he couldn't gimp anybody really. Smash 4 is a totally different beast from the look of it. So much less emphasis on the edge/offstage game compared to melee and much more emphasis on the neutral game on stage

 

[Starcutter]

Pretty sure it wasnt the damage output per se. I think it was the lack of knockback on some moves in combination with just awful recovery and lack of being able to stall offstage, not to mention. He also lacked kill potential outside of Fsmash and nB(flareblade) since he couldn't gimp anybody really. Smash 4 is a totally different beast from the look of it. So much less emphasis on the edge/offstage game compared to melee and much more emphasis on the neutral game on stage

erm, I definitely meant that. yeah.

 

[Harpuia]

Of the Screen shots posted on the smash website, it would be a safe bet to say that the second picture of the top row is her using Marth's neutral B. And for the first picture of the bottom row, it could be her countering Ike's Forward tilt since he has already finished the swing of his sword and Lucina is just beginning hers.
Personally I don't understand why Sakurai only showed off moves of hers that were copies of Marth's. I thought (don't quote me on this) Sakurai said he didn't want to make clones. But I think that was before brawl came out (which still ended up having clones)

 

[XenothiumX]

Lucina and Marth appear to have the same fighting style so it might not matter.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Actually the only clones that worked incorrectly in Melee were Pikachu-Pichu and Marth-Roy. Falco brought a lot to Melee, more than the 50% of the roster, to check that the only thing you need to do is going to Youtube. Falco being better than Fox is something debatable, i actually think that Falco is sightly better than Fox. Still, is not the huge difference between Marth and Roy, i would not say that Falco is MUCH better than Fox.

Im sure that if you look deep enough you will be able to find at least 10 nintendo character that you would not pick over Falco, including some main characters.

That would be Luigi, he was like the Roy to Marth, but even more unique where he had his own original side.

What you suggest that Falco brought to Melee could be said here. I hope you are not only claiming that Falco livened up the Tournament scene.

Falco is much better than Fox, his UP Smash attack has more K.O. potential. His blaster has more knock back stopping attempts of getting back on the stage. His Aerial Down Air has spike to it. And it may just be me, but his Reflector seems to be easier to spike with.

The only character(s) I would not pick over Falco is a Goomba or other common enemies, but that isn't saying much.

 

[FalconSoup]

I'm a tiny bit disappointed that she shares Marth's moves, but at the end of the day, I don't really care anymore. The roster is ridiculously unique enough, and that's a feat. If they really want to add a character or two with very similar movesets, I'm fine. Besides, she did pretend to be him for a while, so her having his moveset makes some sense.
It's great that she isn't a direct copy of Marth. I feel that she'll be faster both in movement speed and aerial combat, but will have a-little-under neutral kill power, and can be killed easier. Sounds like my preference. During a heated match, I can't land Marth's tippers to save my life (unless it's a down-air).

 

[Roy-Kun]

Marth still looks girlish even next to Lucina?

Also you can easily swap to another color to differentiate them.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Its easy. One looks like a girl and the other one looks like a boy and they were revealed in that order.