Lucas : Ness Speculation Thread. Lucas Ness Styled Costume Added!!!

[axemangx]

You know what?


The whole "invincibility frames" with Lucas' Up+B....

Wow. That makes so much sense..

 

[Ginger9001]

*Points to Lucas* Heafty, Heafty, Heafty *Points to Ness* Wimpy, Wimpy, Wimpy

thats how

..............Well....thanks for showing me how much of an idiot you are.

 

[SirPenguin]

No, he isn't like Lucas. Marth and Roy were brought over to hype up the Fire Emblem series before they released their games. Because of the popularity of these characters in smash, it helped the sales of their Fire Emblem games. Lucas can't promote Mother 3 sales because Nintendo of America opted to not bring it over.

In other words, he is a poor representative of EB, cause he isn't nearly as recognizable and has little impact worldwide in comparison to Ness. It's almost a slap in the face for a Japanese-exclusive to replace a character that is known worldwide.

Not really, no. Fire Emblem characters paved the way for FE to become popular in the states and other areas. Lucas is going to do the same for Mother 3. Mother 1 and 3 were held back because Nintendo didn't think they would be popular enough to sell. Now they'll bring about awareness to the franchise. It's almost a no brainer that Mother 3 will come stateside very soon.

I still can't believe this topic got to 14 pages. It's silly. Ness isn't it.

Srsly.

 

[CJay]

the German site is very clear about that ness is gone.
just my 2 cents

 

[Ginger9001]

the German site is very clear about that ness is gone.
just my 2 cents

Sry, I've only got a penny.

 

[vesperview]

No, he isn't like Lucas. Marth and Roy were brought over to hype up the Fire Emblem series before they released their games. Because of the popularity of these characters in smash, it helped the sales of their Fire Emblem games. Lucas can't promote Mother 3 sales because Nintendo of America opted to not bring it over.

In other words, he is a poor representative of EB, cause he isn't nearly as recognizable and has little impact worldwide in comparison to Ness. It's almost a slap in the face for a Japanese-exclusive to replace a character that is known worldwide.

Earthbound wasn't released in Europe and it tanked in America, Lucas is not a poor Mother representative.

 

[Ginger9001]

Earthbound wasn't released in Europe and it tanked in America, Lucas is not a poor Mother representative.

He isn't a POOR representative, but it would be foolish to say that he is the BEST representative.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

He isn't a POOR representative, but it would be foolish to say that he is the BEST representative.

No. Because the japanese genuinely care about Mother. No, not only because they got Mother 3, but because Mother 2 didn't tank there, and if it weren't for them buying Mother 1 decently, Mother 2 wouldn't exist. The japanese deserve whatever character is more current.

 

[Ginger9001]

No. Because the japanese genuinely care about Mother. No, not only because they got Mother 3, but because Mother 2 didn't tank there, and if it weren't for them buying Mother 1 decently, Mother 2 wouldn't exist. The japanese deserve whatever character is more current.

What's with everyone being such a smart ass? I don't care about what effing Mother game TANKS (whatever the hell that means) where, I'm saying that Ness is better known in America thanks to Smash Bros. and he's been around way longer than Lucas. I'm sure that even the Japanese realize that. Lucas has only been around for a year, but sure, he's a fresh new character that should rightfully be put in the new Smash Bros., but I'm saying that Lucas is not as well known as Ness in American OR Japan I'm pretty darn sure. Theres nothing you can change about that. Why can't they just make Japanese AND Americans happy by just putting in both of them?!

 

[T-Nice]

What's with everyone being such a smart ass? I don't care about what effing Mother game TANKS (whatever the hell that means) where, I'm saying that Ness is better known in America thanks to Smash Bros. and he's been around way longer than Lucas. I'm sure that even the Japanese realize that. Lucas has only been around for a year, but sure, he's a fresh new character that should rightfully be put in the new Smash Bros., but I'm saying that Lucas is not as well known as Ness in American OR Japan I'm pretty darn sure. Theres nothing you can change about that. Why can't they just make Japanese AND Americans happy by just putting in both of them?!

Okay, why bring Ness back if Lucas as just as good a Ness? Ness isn't the "trademark" of Earthbound/Mother either, and yes even though Lucas is about a year old you can't imagine that Lucas probably blew up stardom in Japan? And who cares if Ness was around when when Smash came out... if you knew anything about Earthbound compared to Mother 3; Ness gots nothing on Lucas.... Lucas story was so deep it, was crazy. And the last time I checked, I thought Super Smash Brothers was about "Popular" franchise mascot... and guess what that knew king is Lucas!

 

[smashmaniac16]

earthbound needs more than one rep. ness for brawl!

 

[T-Nice]

earthbound needs more than one rep. ness for brawl!

Not really... if Ness can do it without other reps, why can't Lucas? Why are people hating on Lucas so much?

 

[BrianM]

Not really, no. Fire Emblem characters paved the way for FE to become popular in the states and other areas. Lucas is going to do the same for Mother 3. Mother 1 and 3 were held back because Nintendo didn't think they would be popular enough to sell. Now they'll bring about awareness to the franchise. It's almost a no brainer that Mother 3 will come stateside very soon.

I still can't believe this topic got to 14 pages. It's silly. Ness isn't it.

Srsly.

lol they're not going to bring Mother 3 statewide. They never did plan on it. In case you haven't noticed, it's a GBA game, of all things.

 

[Voyager]

Okay, why bring Ness back if Lucas as just as good a Ness? Ness isn't the "trademark" of Earthbound/Mother either, and yes even though Lucas is about a year old you can't imagine that Lucas probably blew up stardom in Japan? And who cares if Ness was around when when Smash came out... if you knew anything about Earthbound compared to Mother 3; Ness gots nothing on Lucas.... Lucas story was so deep it, was crazy. And the last time I checked, I thought Super Smash Brothers was about "Popular" franchise mascot... and guess what that knew king is Lucas!

So clearly they need to take Ness out. Who needs Ness? We've got this AWESOME NEW GUY! So what you loved Earthbound and would like the main character from your favorite game back, that doesnt matter, because we've got Lucas now! You'll love him!

Ugh. What is with the "Mother characters are 100% replaceable" mentality, even from the fans?

 

[FlatSoda]

Woah, quite a jump of pages since I went out to go buy some shoes. I'll read them over and reply in a bit.

Edit: Okay, Read through for the most part, I read the long posts, the qouted, but most short posts I just skimmed over.

Read a lot of posts about translations and some fanboy crap here and there.

Ness and/or Lucas, This thread isn't about choosing one. This thread is about sharing opinions and not bashing opposing members who find Lucas better than Ness or vice versa.

Lucas being in does NOT confirm Ness.
Lucas being in does NOT de-confirm Ness.

Translation does not mean a thing, just because one language part of the Dojo says he's gone by whatever words said and other languages not? I see it as cancelling out.
Basically right now, nothing confirms the other, nor does it de-confirm anything.

Few annoying things were the several posts made to close this topic. with over 3000 views and I made this post this morning? I say it's caught a lot of people. If anything move to another location.

As for my arguments and those of others, Let's keep it going. We got many days ahead of us 'til Brawl is released. At least in Japan.
Let's just hope for more Lucas updates, or maybe even a Ness update to settle the disputes.

 

[WiiLittleMan]

Let me just throw this out there. I agree that it wasn't a perfect translation, but when translating from one language to another, there are some things that have to be added by the translator. Since the guy who translates this probably knows whether or not Ness got replaced by Lucas, he probably added "up until now" because he knows that Ness is getting replaced. Maybe he didn't mean to do it, but he just kind of automatically did it. That's why I think this update means Ness is gone.

 

[atom-smasher]

if earthbound had more games mabye even one on 64 at least he would have made a comback and lucas might of been left out or with different moves but being that ness hasent been seen in his own game since snes and lucas has mad a more powerful statement then why not give peas a chance
as far as the mario luigi and fox & falco thing go my take on it is that luigi hasn't been a clone of mario since the original so he is clear for brawl but falco on the other hand was a clone who i would love to see in brawl with differnt moves and a very differnt final smash

 

[FlatSoda]

Let me just throw this out there. I agree that it wasn't a perfect translation, but when translating from one language to another, there are some things that have to be added by the translator. Since the guy who translates this probably knows whether or not Ness got replaced by Lucas, he probably added "up until now" because he knows that Ness is getting replaced. Maybe he didn't mean to do it, but he just kind of automatically did it. That's why I think this update means Ness is gone.

automatically did it?

You wouldn't happen to know how the translator's job is performed would you?
You think the updates aren't thought out?
I'm sure there's tons of revision, but needless to say, translation is still nothing of importance yet.

 

[WiiLittleMan]

automatically did it?

You wouldn't happen to know how the translator's job is performed would you?
You think the updates aren't thought out?
I'm sure there's tons of revision, but needless to say, translation is still nothing of importance yet.

Well, I do know that during the official gameplay demonstration at e for all the demonstrator said, and I quote, "I hope you guys have been following the updates on the dojo because it's taking up a lot of my life getting those things translated," so we know that he's the one that does the translating. Later in the demo he says, "I loooove playing as Link," so he at least gets to play the demo pretty much whenever he wants to. That being said, I am just assuming (and it's very possible that I'm wrong) that he's probably known what's going on with Ness/Lucas, and just had a momentary mental lapse and forgot that we didn't know it yet.

 

[FlatSoda]

Well, I do know that during the official gameplay demonstration at e for all the demonstrator said, and I quote, "I hope you guys have been following the updates on the dojo because it's taking up a lot of my life getting those things translated," so we know that he's the one that does the translating. Later in the demo he says, "I loooove playing as Link," so he at least gets to play the demo pretty much whenever he wants to. That being said, I am just assuming (and it's very possible that I'm wrong) that he's probably known what's going on with Ness/Lucas, and just had a momentary mental lapse and forgot that we didn't know it yet.

very possible that you're wrong would be how much of a chance? 50/50?
This is why I hate life. As I said before like a coin toss, either heads or tails.

Is there only one translator? I want to get more into this.

 

[WiiLittleMan]

very possible that you're wrong would be how much of a chance? 50/50?
This is why I hate life. As I said before like a coin toss, either heads or tails.

Is there only one translator? I want to get more into this.

I think there is probably one translator for each language, but I don't know. And as for the possibility that I'm wrong, I just chose the option that I think is most likely. In the end, it doesn't really matter because Ness is either in or he's not, and nothing we say on these boards is going to influence Sakurai.

 

[SirPenguin]

It's not a coin flip. Ness being gone has plenty of evidence supporting it. Ness being in does not. It's more 90/10, maybe 95/5.

 

[FlatSoda]

TrueTrue.

Our voice isn't gonna change anyone's. Especially since it's probably too late anyway.

Also everyone! Added something to the first post. Check it. :]

Sir:
There can be plenty of evidence supporting either side, but nothings concrete.
I'm leaning that he'll be in the game one way or another. Hopefully a character, one more character is just going to be grande. Eventually people will live if Ness is in or not.
I'm sure no one will turn down Brawl because Ness is out.

 

[WiiLittleMan]

I would really like the option for some characters (Lucas, Mario, maybe Pikachu, etc) to have special alternate costumes that actually altered their moves. Mario could have a Dr. Mario alternate costume that gave him a slightly different set of special moves. The same goes for Lucas. I personally would love to see Ness as an alternate costume with the same moves that he had in Melee. That way, Ness lovers would get to use him, and not just someone similar and he wouldn't take up a whole new character slot.

 

[FlatSoda]

I would really like the option for some characters (Lucas, Mario, maybe Pikachu, etc) to have special alternate costumes that actually altered their moves. Mario could have a Dr. Mario alternate costume that gave him a slightly different set of special moves. The same goes for Lucas. I personally would love to see Ness as an alternate costume with the same moves that he had in Melee. That way, Ness lovers would get to use him, and not just someone similar and he wouldn't take up a whole new character slot.

If only, If only.
Possible? Yes.
Any proof? Not really. :/
Any time to implement it? I think not.

Indeed, it would be a great addition. But who knows!

 

[WiiLittleMan]

If only, If only.
Possible? Yes.
Any proof? Not really. :/
Any time to implement it? I think not.

Indeed, it would be a great addition. But who knows!

I know it's not very likely but I can dream, can't I? I would seriously give it about a 1.352% chance of happening, though. (That's just a random number I came up with that is actually reasonable.)

 

[dan smith]

Man, this discussion has spread far and wide...and deep. It's a little bit moot...but I need some more posts...so...

Lucas is in, Ness might be out...probably is...but more importantly. If I had to choose, Ness or Claus. Despite what my avatar might suggest. Claus would be killer. Claus and Lucas would be my favorite two Mother reps.

BTW...why aren't there any Lucas or Claus avatars yet???2?

EDIT: Also, the direction of this discussion should turn from "is Ness in?" to "if Ness is in?" because that scenario has just gotten really complicated.

If Ness is in...with his Melee moves, we have two very similar characters. That would kinda blow. The only way I would be cool with Ness being in, now that Lucas has been shown to be an evolution of Ness' moveset, would be if he was vastly different than before.

And by that I mean...ROBOT NESS.

 

[Florida]

I would really like the option for some characters (Lucas, Mario, maybe Pikachu, etc) to have special alternate costumes that actually altered their moves. Mario could have a Dr. Mario alternate costume that gave him a slightly different set of special moves. The same goes for Lucas. I personally would love to see Ness as an alternate costume with the same moves that he had in Melee. That way, Ness lovers would get to use him, and not just someone similar and he wouldn't take up a whole new character slot.

This is a function that I've always wanted as well. Originally I had ideas for some of Yoshi's alternate costumes to be accompanied with some babies (Baby Mario, Baby Peach, Baby Bowser, etc.), and each baby would have their own special and unique ability supplied to them. The only problem with that being that perhaps everyone playing would want to be a certain baby, and someone else has already selected such baby.

However, this could work if the only baby was Baby Mario. Since there are 8 costumes for most characters (according to the E for All demo), 4 colors could've been just Yoshi, while the others could've been Yoshi + Baby Mario.

If you kept the alternate character (costumes) simple, such as half Mario and half Doc. Mario, then this could definitely work. And although we've seen 8 complete costumes for both Mario and Yoshi already, things such as this could definitely change! =P

I also thought that they could relate to DBZB games, and have it to where you click on a character, and have sub-selections available. In this case, being:

Mario:

• Mario
• Doctor Mario

And as for the Lucas ---> Ness alternate costume change, it's very likely.
Though, I think that if they're going to remove Ness as a playable character, they really shouldn't include him at all. It's sort of mocking, in a way.

 

[FlatSoda]

Dan: Hm, I don't know anything about Claus. lul? But hey, like you're saying 2 characters, better than one? Of Course, you voiced your opinion on Claus and Lucas. As possible as that can be, so can Ness.

Egruntz: I'm not agreeing with what you said last. They should remove Ness in his entirety? :/
Kind of too late, y'think? I'm not the creator or anything but... I think Ness has come too far a long to just drop him completely. Hopefully a Costume is back, though. After reading so much, it's the least I hope for.

 

[WiiLittleMan]

This is a function that I've always wanted as well. Originally I had ideas for some of Yoshi's alternate costumes to be accompanied with some babies (Baby Mario, Baby Peach, Baby Bowser, etc.), and each baby would have their own special and unique ability supplied to them. The only problem with that being that perhaps everyone playing would want to be a certain baby, and someone else has already selected such baby.

However, this could work if the only baby was Baby Mario. Since there are 8 costumes for most characters (according to the E for All demo), 4 colors could've been just Yoshi, while the others could've been Yoshi + Baby Mario.

That's an interesting thought. I didn't know that each character had eight alternate costumes (although I did notice that dark Link and golden Bowser pwn all!!) That does make it more likely that alternate costumes are going to change movesets slightly. If that happened, I would consider Brawl the perfect game. *Daydreams for ten minutes about playing Brawl with all those features*

 

[WiiLittleMan]

Dan: Hm, I don't know anything about Claus. lul? But hey, like you're saying 2 characters, better than one? Of Course, you voiced your opinion on Claus and Lucas. As possible as that can be, so can Ness.

Egruntz: I'm not agreeing with what you said last. They should remove Ness in his entirety? :/
Kind of too late, y'think? I'm not the creator or anything but... I think Ness has come too far a long to just drop him completely. Hopefully a Costume is back, though. After reading so much, it's the least I hope for.

I have to agree with FlatSoda. I think alternate costumes would be a perfect way to implement Melee clones without actually making them feel like clones. They would still take just as much programming as if they were a standalone character, but, seeing how long this game has been in development, I think they've probably had time to do pretty much anything they want with it.

 

[Florida]

Dan: Hm, I don't know anything about Claus. lul? But hey, like you're saying 2 characters, better than one? Of Course, you voiced your opinion on Claus and Lucas. As possible as that can be, so can Ness.

Egruntz: I'm not agreeing with what you said last. They should remove Ness in his entirety? :/
Kind of too late, y'think? I'm not the creator or anything but... I think Ness has come too far a long to just drop him completely. Hopefully a Costume is back, though. After reading so much, it's the least I hope for.

As I said before (same as you), it's a 50/50 thing.
If Ness is in, it's best to knock him out completely. Lucas was originally supposed to be the Earthbound / Mother rep. for the first Smash Bros. game, but the game which Lucas was going to star in was canceled. Thus, they added Ness instead. If they're going to replace Ness with Lucas, then do it completely. If Ness stays in, then that's awesome, just don't make him an alternate costume / AT, or anything like that. Just drop it all.

EDIT:
Unless, of course, if they make Ness as a separate character while being an alternate costume (as I explain in my previous post). That would be something I'd be most happy about.

That's an interesting thought. I didn't know that each character had eight alternate costumes (although I did notice that dark Link and golden Bowser pwn all!!) That does make it more likely that alternate costumes are going to change movesets slightly. If that happened, I would consider Brawl the perfect game. *Daydreams for ten minutes about playing Brawl with all those features*

Not all characters have 8 costumes, but some do. Mario and Yoshi for certain, Ike and Diddy had quite a few as well.

 

[FlatSoda]

I have to agree with FlatSoda. I think alternate costumes would be a perfect way to implement Melee clones without actually making them feel like clones. They would still take just as much programming as if they were a standalone character, but, seeing how long this game has been in development, I think they've probably had time to do pretty much anything they want with it.

Who knows, Who knows. The E for All demo, was a demo.
There were character re-colors, maybe even slight alterations.
Just gotta wait. Time can only tell.

I just wish it were still Dec. 3rd. :/

 

[WiiLittleMan]

Who knows, Who knows. The E for All demo, was a demo.
There were character re-colors, maybe even slight alterations.
Just gotta wait. Time can only tell.

I just wish it were still Dec. 3rd. :/

Can't disagree with you there. Demos are demos. As for the release date? I think that if it released on Dec. third, the stage editor wouldn't be in. That reason alone makes it worth the two month wait (in my opinion).

 

[Gilgamesh]

The special costume idea isn't too far fetched. After all Pikachu, Pichu, JP and Peach did have significant differences in some of their color swaps.

Just add a red cap to Lucas, hide his blonde hair and there you go: Ness.

But no, he won't be returning as a separate character.

 

[FlatSoda]

The special costume idea isn't too far fetched. After all Pikachu, Pichu, JP and Peach did have significant differences in some of their color swaps.

Just add a red cap to Lucas, hide his blonde hair and there you go: Ness.

But no, he won't be returning as a separate character.

be more thoughtful. :[
Him as a character would bring more fun and variety. ;]

 

[WiiLittleMan]

The special costume idea isn't too far fetched. After all Pikachu, Pichu, JP and Peach did have significant differences in some of their color swaps.

They did have more differences than others, but we've already seen that the alternate costumes in Brawl are much more elaborate. What I'm hoping for is an actual moveset change for certain characters based on the costume.

 

[DekuBoy]

that thing about Lucas replacing Ness in Melee is nothing but a RUMOUR!

 

[WiiLittleMan]

that thing about Lucas replacing Ness in Melee is nothing but a RUMOUR!

Sure it's a rumor, but it has some pretty good backup.

 

[FlatSoda]

Rumor?
More like lost in translation.
Everyone believes the translation. Everyone. :/
Though Lucas' has most of his moves, it's still possible Ness is in. I don't see how this rules anything out. YET.