Lucas : Ness Speculation Thread. Lucas Ness Styled Costume Added!!!

[FlatSoda]

I don't get why some people are using that Lucas' is already in, meaning Ness can't be in.
Use stronger points, like I've read before. Lucas' Having most of Ness' Moves would've been more arguable.

As for downsizing Ness, I'm sure those who like Ness have nothing against Lucas. Lucas' is a great addition here. But look at it this way, instead of sticking to one, another added could be a greater asset. Strong points people, get to it.

We understand the time rush that was involved with Melee, And that Lucas could've been in Melee. Sakurai says this, Sakurai says that. Do you really believe everything said on the Dojo is concrete?
Ness should be able to come back or go without a problem, I really appreciate that everyone here is discussing about this. But let's not get any weaker. Make each other think to why Lucas is opposing Ness, and what makes it that way so Ness doesn't return.

Don't be offensive then evasive people. If you tell a child to not eat that piece of candy on the table, it's going to make him want it more. Think.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

There is no more evidence that Ness isn't still in the game than there was before

That sentence is true.

EDIT:

He doesn't actually say that in the update Vesperview.

 

[E-Jolteon]

Ike and Samus are a longshot. Actually, most of them are. Sonic seems like a C. Falcon type-character though.

 

[FlatSoda]

Also, My mom is fluent in Italian, Spanish, and French, My Gramps speaks German.

I really want to sidle away from using Translators online.
If anyone can do a true literal translation, it would be appreciated if one could translate the introduction of todays update.

PM me with literal translations, please.

 

[MaximoSmasher]

*MOTHER 3 (not really but kind of spoiler)*

BUT for you guys just to know, Mother 3 takes place 1,000 Years after Ness' Time .... LUCAS = NESS reincarnated... there is a special character who almost makes it pretty clear thats what Lucas is in Mother 3...

Did you play the game? There's a Zombie in Mother 3 dressed like Ness.

 

[Yoshi]

I'm not sure if this has been voiced, but what if Lucas/Ness are like Mario/Luigi, where Lucas has a lugified moveset? Or is that already been ruled out?

 

[Wolffe]

I'm not sure if this has been voiced, but what if Lucas/Ness are like Mario/Luigi, where Lucas has a lugified moveset? Or is that already been ruled out?

It's the most likely scenario, but everyone's busy jumping to conclusions over a badly translated english page and the denial that any clone characters could possibly be making an appearance in Brawl

 

[vesperview]

That sentence is true.

EDIT:

He doesn't actually say that in the update Vesperview.

"There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now"

Until now, now if that doesn't mean deconfirmation I don't know what does.

and even if it isn't it just makes Ness have like 0.000000000000000000000001% of returning, Lucas has 3 of Ness's moves, Ness won't return, they are not gonna go through that much trouble creating a new moveset for a character they were eager to replace since the last installment, and Sakurai said there wouldn't be clones in this game.

 

[DekuBoy]

Well in my opinion Nostalgia is the heart and soul of Smash. I'm just pointing out if Sakurai adds only Brand new characters like Lucas what will be there for long time veterans? the Ice climbers and Pit. But their games sucked. I just want characters like Tamagon and Sukapon... I don't like how Nintendo are trying mainly to attract a new generation of gamers.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I'm not sure if this has been voiced, but what if Lucas/Ness are like Mario/Luigi, where Lucas has a lugified moveset? Or is that already been ruled out?

People just ignored that. I'm not sure why though.

 

[blayde_axel]

Honestly, people. What makes you think that there won't be at least ONE pair of clones in this game? Did he ever say there will be NO clones? Absolutely NO MORE clones? I don't think so. So what if they are somewhat similar? They have the same specials. So what? Other than that, we have two different characters, albeit with some similar moves.

I mean, it's not like Ness has a Tether Recovery.

So, basically, you know how much more evidence we have that he's gone? No more than we had before. Just mere speculation. From the translations that we had so far, no others used the phrase "up until now." It was just our English translator using that phrase because he wanted to. Jeez.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

"There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now"

Until now, now if that doesn't mean deconfirmation I don't know what does.

and even if it isn't it just makes Ness have like 0.000000000000000000000001% of returning, Lucas has 3 of Ness's moves, Ness won't return, they are not gonna go through that much trouble creating a new moveset for a character they were eager to replace since the last installment, and Sakurai said there wouldn't be clones in this game.

There’s a character named Mario who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now, and Luigi is very similar. They are from the same family of PK users.

But Luigi’s physical combat style is quite different. By which I mean, he does not have the same standard moves.

Actually it makes Ness's chances 50/50, just like it was yesterday.

 

[vesperview]

Actually it makes Ness' chances 50/50, just like it was yesterday.

Considering your second quote never happened it doesn't, as I said they are not creating a new moveset for a character they were so eager to replace since Melee, people should stop living in denial.

 

[FlatSoda]

Agreeing with blayde.

Srsly, now~~~
Clones may be as avoided as much as possible, what if by release date, they need to rush this?
I still feel that there WILL be very similar characters.

 

[Yoshi]

If Luigi and Mario can return with altered movesets, then this doesn't rule out Ness. Seriously people, Sakurai wouldn't take out one of the best players in Smash 64, who was also in Melee.

 

[vesperview]

Agreeing with blayde.

Srsly, now~~~
Clones may be as avoided as much as possible, what if by release date, they need to rush this?
I still feel that there WILL be very similar characters.

Considering only Falco and Ganondorf have a real chance of being decloned that's highly unlikely.

If Luigi and Mario can return with altered movesets, then this doesn't rule out Ness. Seriously people, Sakurai wouldn't take out one of the best players in Smash 64, who was also in Melee.

Putting Mario and Luigi as an example of Ness and Lucas, doesn't make ANY sense.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Considering your second quote never happened it doesn't, as I said they are not creating a new moveset for a character they were so eager to replace since Melee, people should stop living in denial.

That quote was an example. Notice how it made sense? But didn't deconfirm Mario in any way..?

As I said they are not creating a new moveset for a character they were so eager to replace since Melee,

And where did you hear that..?

 

[Wolffe]

"There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now"

Until now, now if that doesn't mean deconfirmation I don't know what does.

and even if it isn't it just makes Ness have like 0.000000000000000000000001% of returning, Lucas has 3 of Ness's moves, Ness won't return, they are not gonna go through that much trouble creating a new moveset for a character they were eager to replace since the last installment, and Sakurai said there wouldn't be clones in this game.

The english translation was badly done. Every other language version of the posts goes against the english one, coming closer to 'the other games before this have a character called Ness', which is just a simple way of avoiding confirming the character while still referring to how he is similar.

 

[vesperview]

That quote was an example. Notice how it made sense? But didn't deconfirm Mario in any way..?

Notice how Mario was the first character in Brawl and Luigi is important enough to appear in Brawl even if their movesets are similar?

Same doesn't apply in this case.

 

[Titan05]

I can confirm the French translation is more similar to the Japanese text than the English one.
I don't think Ness will be excluded from the game at all, I mean Luigi is very similar to Mario but it doesn't mean he won't in the game.
That and there are subtle differences between Ness and Lucas, for one, the shield only covers Lucas's front side, not his back.

 

[Drik Khaail]

A costume seems to be satisfying for people.
how would you feel if fox got a falco costume?

High five.

 

[T-Nice]

actually I would. I prefer Veterans to Newcomers. Oh by the way I'm not in any way argueing with you or fighting or anything I'm just trying to keep up the appeal for Ness to return.

Oh, don't worry we cool haha. Just having a decision.

 

[vesperview]

Luigi is Mario's brother... he is more important than Ness, right now the way things are going Ness is in the same position as Roy, a character in need of a new moveset replaced by a newer main of his series, thing that cannot be done with Luigi.

 

[Yoshi]

Considering only Falco and Ganondorf have a real chance of being decloned that's highly unlikely.



Putting Mario and Luigi as an example of Ness and Lucas, doesn't make ANY sense.

How does it not? They have immensely simular movesets, if not altered by the damage count and such. Ness and Lucas could easily be the same.

 

[MaximoSmasher]

Well in my opinion Nostalgia is the heart and soul of Smash. I'm just pointing out if Sakurai adds only Brand new characters like Lucas what will be there for long time veterans? the Ice climbers and Pit. But their games sucked. I just want characters like Tamagon and Sukapon... I don't like how Nintendo are trying mainly to attract a new generation of gamers.

No point in getting upset until we know 100% ...Yes Lucas is brand new, but his game ties up the mother series perfectly, wether you like it or not, he's quite important t the mother storyline / franchise. ...Kid Icarus didn't suck, and I didn't play ice climbers but they are neat because they are different. ...Without new generation of gamers...how would a company thrive on a small number of hardcore fans? ...No...just...no. And they are doing quite the balancing act, remembering the old, while nodding to the new. Without Lucas here the US might never see Mother 3 released.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Notice how Mario was the first character in Brawl and Luigi is important enough to appear in Brawl even if their movesets are similar?

Same doesn't apply in this case.

Summary:

"I can't find a Counter-Argument for that, so I'll just say it doesn't apply for them."

I edited my previous post btw.

 

[blayde_axel]

Even with all the baseless evidence, I must say this is one of the best debates smashboards has had... I've yet to see anyone say "He's gone cause he's teh sux0rs!" yet.

Anyway, I have a better way to settle this... wait until January 24th.

 

[FlatSoda]

Drik: YES!!

~~
Luigi being Mario's brother would mean, Waluigi is more important than Ness? I mean this in a Wario type way.
Importance doesn't matter here.

 

[vesperview]

How does it not? They have immensely simular movesets, if not altered by the damage count and such. Ness and Lucas could easily be the same.

At this point the Luigi example is getting old and stupid, Ness is not Lucas's brother with immense popularity, like Mario and Luigi you're talking about the Mother series, which in this case is the same as the Fire Emblem series, every game has a different lead... if the new one appeared in Brawl with the old one's moves, you can clearly tell who is getting the boot.

Now Luigi as I've been saying since yesterday is important enough to the Mario franchise to appear in Brawl even with a similar moveset, which considering he hasn't been confirmed, you have no idea if they're movesets are gonna be similar this time around, just the fact that Mario has FLUDD is enough for their movesets to be different, now Ness just had the luck to have one game come to America, which BTW flopped and they have now Lucas and Claus, who in the eyes of people are the new face of the Mother series at least until a Mother 4 is released in Japan, bottom line, Ness is not as important to the Mother series as Luigi is to the Mario series, that's why is a terrible example.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

At this point the Luigi example is getting old and stupid, Ness is not Lucas's brother with immense popularity, like Mario and Luigi you're talking about the Mother series, which in this case is the same as the Fire Emblem series, every game has a different lead... if the new one appeared in Brawl with the old one's moves, you can clearly tell who is getting the boot.

Now Luigi as I've been saying since yesterday is important enough to the Mario franchise to appear in Brawl even with a similar moveset, which considering he hasn't been confirmed, you have no idea if they're movesets are gonna be similar this time around, just the fact that Mario has FLUDD is enough for their movesets to be different, now Ness just had the luck to have one game come to America, which BTW flopped and they have now Lucas and Claus, who in the eyes of people are the new face of the Mother series at least until a Mother 4 is released in Japan, bottom line, Ness is not as important to the Mother series as Luigi is to the Mario series, that's why is a terrible example.

Saying that this update deconfirms Ness is also extremely naive. You have no idea if their movesets are going to be similar or not.

And notice how in my previous quote I just switched Ness for Mario, and Lucas for Luigi, yet it made perfect sense and didn't deconfirm Mario in any way?

Ness's chances are 50/50, just like they were yesterday. This update does not prove nor disprove anything.

 

[Yoshi]

At this point the Luigi example is getting old and stupid, Ness is not Lucas's brother with immense popularity, like Mario and Luigi you're talking about the Mother series, which in this case is the same as the Fire Emblem series, every game has a different lead... if the new one appeared in Brawl with the old one's moves, you can clearly tell who is getting the boot.

Now Luigi as I've been saying since yesterday is important enough to the Mario franchise to appear in Brawl even with a similar moveset, which considering he hasn't been confirmed, you have no idea if they're movesets are gonna be similar this time around, just the fact that Mario has FLUDD is enough for their movesets to be different, now Ness just had the luck to have one game come to America, which BTW flopped and they have now Lucas and Claus, who in the eyes of people are the new face of the Mother series at least until a Mother 4 is released in Japan, bottom line, Ness is not as important to the Mother series as Luigi is to the Mario series, that's why is a terrible example.

Wow, that's actually really true and I could agree there. But look at all the cloned characters. Who in heinsight were really important to the series? I don't know about Marth/Roy, but as for Young Link, Pichu, Dr. Mario, Falco, Ganondorf, which out of them?
I don't see Ness being entirely gone, if not playable, then as an AT.

 

[Croco]

What do you think about Ness, and his absence in Brawl so far?
It bothers me a bit..
Why?
Because I played earthbound when I was a kid and I never played Mother 3..

What do you think about character clones, and similarities? Possible for ness, and being his last chance in Smash?
I'm cool with it.

Do you believe in what I said about Mario & Luigi, and Fox & Falco? What's one without the other?
I guess.

 

[FlatSoda]

What do you think about Ness, and his absence in Brawl so far?
It bothers me a bit..
Why?
Because I played earthbound when I was a kid and I never played Mother 3..

What do you think about character clones, and similarities? Possible for ness, and being his last chance in Smash?
I'm cool with it.

Do you believe in what I said about Mario & Luigi, and Fox & Falco? What's one without the other?
I guess.

finally someone answers a few questions.


The attachment of video games, :|

 

[Digital Angel]

Saying that this update deconfirms Ness is also extremely naive. You have no idea if their movesets are going to be similar or not.

And notice how in my previous quote I just switched Ness for Mario, and Lucas for Luigi, yet it made perfect sense and didn't deconfirm Mario in any way?

Ness's chances are 50/50, just like they were yesterday. This update does not prove nor disprove anything.

If you think he has any chance of being in your ****ing ********.

'Up until now' intuitively means he's not coming back. If you are persistent that he is or has any chance of coming back as a playable character after seeing that you are a very deluded, irrational, person.

Case closed.

 

[vesperview]

Falco and Ganondorf are sure to be decloned... but in this case, Lucas is the new Ness, Ness has had that moveset for two games, if he was to be in Brawl, Lucas wouldn't have his moves, which is the argument I always used to support Ness, which was, if they give Lucas, PK Ground, PK Starstorm and another PK moves like Hypnosis or Paralysis, then Ness is practically in, considering there isn't anymore PK attacks left to give Ness since Lucas has the 4 attacks that could belong to Ness and Mother 2 is just left with PK Starstorm and the only attack that Ness is left with is PK Flash, is very naive to think Ness is returning Pluvia.

 

[DekuBoy]

Sakurai moves in mysterious ways...

 

[FlatSoda]

If you think he has any chance of being in your ****ing ********.

'Up until now' intuitively means he's not coming back. If you are persistent that he is or has any chance of coming back after seeing that you are a very deluded, irrational, person.

Case closed.

I believe that before you flame someone, you should make sure you won't be flamed back.
Also, You're*

And plenty of things in life get lost in translation.

 

[Digital Angel]

I believe that before you flame someone, you should make sure you won't be flamed back.
Also, You're*

And plenty of things in life get lost in translation.

I use your over you're because it's easier to type. My post was readable, correcting my grammar only confirms you have nothing intelligent add.

 

[FlatSoda]

I use your over you're because it's easier to type. My post was readable, correcting my grammar only confirms you have nothing intelligent add.

At least I had something to say about what you said before.

Read, please.

Anyway, At least back yourself up about the Translation part.

 

[Chaosblade77]

Do you believe in what I said about Mario & Luigi, and Fox & Falco? What's one without the other?
I guess.

I don't see how Luigi applies to this argument. "Mario and Luigi" have been in a dozen or more games together, and you can name them around the world to people and they will know who you are talking about.

Ness and Lucas did not share a game, nor are they anywhere near as popular. Additionally, why would Sakurai totally change the existing character's moveset to and give the old one to a new character? Then all of the Ness players would change to Lucas anyway, and it only makes sense for the new character to get the new moveset.

Guess what: he didn't, he got the same one.


I disagree about this applying to Fire Emblem though, because Ike and Marth couldn't be more different...